OT: Puppy Killer responds to outrage

[SteveForever]

Rule #1, never put anything down on paper, video or audio you wouldn't want the
world to see.
Makes you wonder why he did that?

I saw a baby deer run over yesterday and I waited for the game warden to come
after several calls, he never showed. The little thing was suffering, it finally
parished. Sometimes animals need to be killed, but boasting about it and
videotaping it is disgusting.

Carl, I get your points but....
this dude needs to remove a stripe at the very least for
behavior unbecoming to the uniform.

[StoneCold]

Carlitto, you admit HOW he did it was wrong. Isn't that the point?

It wasn't just a spur of the moment idea. Did you notice the legs were zip tied?

This was worse than what the guy on the freeway did. At least he claimed it was done in a fit of rage.

This was pre-planned videotaped cruelty. Don't tell me that's not sadistic on the part of all those invoved. They were laughing about it.

Must get real boring out there, eh?

Might I suggest a couple footballs to throw around instead?

[Playitloudforme]

Any person who inflicts pain on a defenseless animal is a sick fuck in my book. I don't care if they are military or some punk kid training to be a serial killer. Animal abuse is inexcusable.

YUP. There's no excuse. Zip-tied the puppy's legs???? No excuse, whatsoever. I hope they throw his ass out of the military. What does someone with that kind of mentality do to people?

[Journey/Survivor]

Rule #1, never put anything down on paper, video or audio you wouldn't want the
world to see.
Makes you wonder why he did that?

I saw a baby deer run over yesterday and I waited for the game warden to come
after several calls, he never showed. The little thing was suffering, it finally
parished. Sometimes animals need to be killed, but boasting about it and
videotaping it is disgusting.

Carl, I get your points but....
this dude needs to remove a stripe at the very least for
behavior unbecoming to the uniform.

About a year ago I saw a baby deer get hit by a car near where I live. It got up and ran into the woods behind a church. I wanted to see if it was going to be laying there injured so I followed it in to the woods. When I got back there, there was a huge buck with a full rack of antlers that was making it clear that it didn't want me to come any closer. I saw a doe and a few fawns, so I assume that one of those fawns may have been the one I saw get hit, so I guess it was alright? Fortunately the car that hit it saw it a second before impact, and they slammed on the brakes and I don't think they hit the fawn very hard. It did knock down the fawn however.

[Panther]

Man alive, you people need to lay the hell off Carl(os). HE is not the one involved in the actual action. HE never once said the guy was in the right 100%. Geesus, this reminds me of everything I heard about the boys in Nam and the reactions of the public when the mass media would report something that really shouldn't have been reported on. WAR is not life. It is no where near sittin on yer duff and soaking it all in. It's having to watch your ass 24/7 and never knowing who the hell is going to want to take you out.
I will not excuse what this soldier did, in any way. I will however, reiterate the fact that stressful situations cause one's sense of humor to become warped. Is what he did wrong? Hell yes. Are the reactions around our nation a bit overboard? Hell yes.

I did speak with my father tonight (interestingly enough, he had no clue about the tape and situation), and his take was the kid's co should take him out back for some proper MJ. I know what he meant by that because I've heard all the stories from the old days. He did, however, say that this soldier will most likely get the boot, as today's military tends to cow to the will of the civilians.

Ummmmm... and pardon for a second. I'm not sure who it was that made the quip about the Navy boys. My pop was a Navy boy. They aren't some pansy ass excuse for military uniforms. He served the majority of the Korean conflict and two tours in Nam. He's just as important to the military as the grunt guys working front line. I'll match his 24+ years in service to any of these kids pulling their six-ten and yelling rough life. Sorry, but I don't take kindly to Navy bashing. lol My brother, though, was Army - refueler on the front lines. They ALL deserve our respect.

And Carl(os)..... THANK YOU....

[cudaclan]

It is the desensitization of humans (empathy) that condones and justifies the loss of life. You are conditioned to except this act as trivial. The true intent is with no attachments you have no obligation. Under extreme survival conditions, attachments and empathy interfere. Ask yourself; is my life and well-being in jeopardy? What purpose will it serve to take a life? Is it for safety, security, food…?

Reminds me of a basic training (urban legend?) demonstration. A Drill Instructor portraying the “enemy” with a live rabbit. The DI proceeded … let us say, do inhumane things with it.

During the Vietnam War, many of our K9 dogs were left behind. They were targeted as disposable and considered not recoverable. Left on the curbside (trash) like a Christmas tree after the holidays. Your purpose suited our needs; however, we no longer need you.

[7 Wishes]

Throwing a dog off a fucking cliff is something a sick bastard does.

That he is in the military is irrelevant. I have the highest regard for our troops and admittedly no understanding of the stress they're under.

But right is right and wrong is wrong. And what he did is indefensible and totally wrong.

[Don]

I think the guy should have been busted down a paygrade and thrown in the brig for a month. That way he would have to earn back his good conduct discharge if he were to get out. If he was remorseful than he could rebuild his career. If he is a prick than he would be booted out in due time. I think the guy should have mandatory counciling also and than if they thought he had no remorse he would be out of the service. I was in Somalia when shit hit the fan. I had to do some bad things but I don't walk around hating Africans because of it. The problem with this guy is he thought it out and then acted. If it was one rage filled moment then I could try to understand. but when you plan out the little things like this a small minority of people will take the next step, maybe beating up a local that pissed them off, then If they get a way with it how about that girl that has been rude to them. Maybe she needs some fixing. If you don't think the American military is capable of this, ask the Okinawans who's school girls have some real nasty experiances with U.S Marines. The military should have handled this in house but it is what it is and the guy has to go. i came back from Somalia with white hair up to my temples and bad memories. I'm tired of people leaning on the crutch of patriotism when they do something wrong. Be remorseful and make the best of it. The Military gave me a great life and I'm thankful. America doesn't owe me anything and real soldiers understand that.

[Badcotune]

Stone Cold, Nolippin, Pink-whatever,
You are ALL shining examples of how screwed up this country is.
I think all of you are the ones that need the counseling.
Get a grip of your emotions AND reality.

Let me ask you ALL this...
Ever stepped on an ant?
Flamed them with a magnifying glass???
Ever swat a mosquito???
Ever sprayed a wasps nest with pesticide?
Ever put a worm on a hook and gone fishing???
Ever caught/killed a mouse in a mousetrap???
Ever swatted a fly???

I could go on and on with examples of "cruelty to God's creatures"
that no one seems to care about. Why?
Because ants, wasps, flies, rodents and worms aren't readily associated
with all things "cute and cuddily".
They are pests. They bite and sting
and contaminate our homes and food with germs...

But aren't they all just as innocent as this poor, defenseless puppy?

BTW, let me repeat one thing:
This puppy, like all of the stray animals over there, was/is disease/germ-ridden,
a danger to the troops in the field and to the local population... Just like the
rodents, flies and mosquitoes I previously mentioned.

I DO think what this guy and his pal did was wrong.
Wrong, as in Criminal??? No way.
Wrong, as in bad judgement or a bad decision??? Absolutely.

It is not something worth the public humiliation this guy and his
familiy is getting put through, not to mention have his career in the military
cut short over this; we have enuff trouble as it is getting young men & women
to serve or stay in past their first enlistments.

And don't give me that crap about "then he shouldn't be in the military".
Fine. You think that?
Sign up and take his place.
I bet NONE of you have the guts to even THINK about it
let alone do it, do you???

And this HAS ABSOLUTELY NO SIMILARITIES to the bullshit
stories you threw out there, Stone Cold. Vick straight up broke
the law running a disgusting sport. The guy in Cali? Criminal.

This guy didn't go out on a puppy killing spree for kicks.
he didn't go and grab this cute, cuddily little puppy out of
the arms of a crying, little Iraqi child just cause he could.
He put the sick, starving, dying animal out of its misery, like
they do to several others everyday...
He just made a VERY poor judgement call on the way he did it this time
and having his buddy videotape it.

Let me crystalize this for you: Big strong marine man with gun whose coda is to spread freedom and protect innocents tapes himself torturing an innocent, helpless baby animal for kicks while representing our country. Defending the deplorable actions of a sadistic, worthless idiot also makes you a sadistic, worthless idiot. And I'm being kind. Get the message?

Give it a second or two to process, we are perhaps a bit faster on the intake.

~Badcotune

[Badcotune]

http://www.david-motari.com/

For the compassionate ones, I've already fired off a few emails to the people at the respective sites on the above website, and encourage all to do the same. Let's keep this story alive until it makes the nightly news and isn't swept under the carpet -- like, uhh, the rest of what's happening over there.

It's not at all an odd stretch to say this little puppy has become a metaphor and mascot for the unnecessary resutling loss of life from an unnecessary war.

~Badcotune

[Badcotune]

Look, Saint Francis...
There is a BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE between empathy
and flat-out over reaction to an event that hurt absolutely NO ONE...

An innocent life was taken unnecessarily. For amusement. Yet you say no one was hurt? No one except the puppy who was zip tied and tossed off a clip by the big strong, honerable Marine Man who shames his own banner and brotherhood, and has the additional epic lack of judgement to film it, thereby ensuring other countries have one more reason to detest us more. This isn't complicated at all. It's deplorable behavoir, and the world is responding to it. Newsflash: The puppy is NOT the enemy.

Sorry, sane people disagree with you.

~Badcotune

[finalfight]

Found these elsewhere. Not my descriptions or videos. -

Here is a bbc docu. where a soldier kills a dog, a longer version exist, shows the dogs owner coming out visibly upset, nothing he can do, he has a heavily armed invading army in his backyard.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wj32twJXxsY

Soldiers, tormenting a dog...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fy_BSksdvAM

Soldiers shoot another dog
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=54e_1182844511

Soldiers throw grenade at sheepherder/sheep and find it funny
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ULcj-Epr1rI

Soldier shoots yet another dog
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0a5ee2d6eb

here are a couple more that weren't posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK2BTt9_YJk
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-370135413 ...
http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=6703

and just for the hell of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSTI3Ast45Q

Splashing kids with a hummer
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=727_1204139441

Shooting unarmed civilians then celebrating
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7b6_1204052769

Teasing kids with water
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=11bf57cf1f

Soldier talking about wanting to kill Iraqi children/families, he's out of his mind
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aea_1200639693

Soldier messing up civilians house for fun
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8be_1204072976

Soldier being a dick to Iraqi police
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e0b_1203423672

Having kids chant "I love pork!"
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=43e_1201330416

Soldier throwing a child off of a bridge
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1bf_1204382002

[Badcotune]

americasnewsroom@foxnews.com
Newswatch@foxnews.com
Feedback@foxnews.com
Oreilly@foxnews.com

Please send emails to fox news -- this is all over the web, but curiously absent from thier site or broadcast.

~Badcotune

[MJM1959]

I was in the military and I understand the difference between right and wrong. I understand that when you put on that uniform you are held to a higher standard of conduct and responsibility than the average joe on the street. I understand the meaning of courage, honor and discipline. Obviously you and your favorite Marine do not. A tour in Iraq does not get you a "get out of jail free" card when you discredit your uniform, your service and your country. This guy is just another asshole in uniform, nothing else.

BTW, Yes it is a punishable offense.

934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.

If this does not constitute bringing discredit upon the armed forces, I do not know what does. He made the decision to wear the uniform and that includes the responsibility that goes with it. Deal with it.

Man, you're reaching here.
This 'action' is only bringing discredit upon the armed forces because folks
like you and every other person that has
posted in this thread is crying and whining about it.

And don't even try to lecture me on
the meaning of courage, honor and discipline.
Trust me, you are way out of your league.

But I am curious since you want to toot your own horn about your illustrious 9-year military career.
Are you telling me that you NEVER, in your 9 years of service, did anything
that was "questionable" or "in bad taste"?
Are you telling me that you NEVER made a bad decision that you wished you could take back?
I'm sure you did. There just wasn't the technology out there like now, with sites like Youtube,
where ANYTHING a person does can be posted for the world to see.

Again, I agree that what he did was wrong.
And he is NOT my favorite Marine.
He is one of the hundreds of thousands of Marines that I admire
and respect because they are the ones in the field,
putting their lives on the line and doing all the
things none of us want to do.

NO ONE has the right to judge this guy on this single action/event
because NONE OF US has walked in shoes or knows what he has
gone through. Sure, he will be "judged" by his leadership and probably
discharged but it is only because spoiled, naive, weak America
has asked for his head on a platter.

Hey Seargant Fury. For someone who does not think that your military resume is anyone's business, you sure come off all high and mighty. I know you were "boots on the ground" in Iraq. But that does not make you one of Leonidas' 300. I do not give a shit what you did, you ain't impressing me. Opersation Endless Sandbox is not something that will go down in the military history books as America's shining moment. Five years in and the mightiest military in the world cannot secure one fucking city, much less the country. Spare me your tales of glory.

And before you go spouting off about who is and is not in your "league," I suggest you learn just what the fuck you are talking about. Because what you know about me and my service amounts to jack squat. So bite me soldier boy! And for your information, I NEVER did anything that would bring disgrace upon myself, my family, my uniform or my country. It is called pride. Look it up! Because if you do not believe that what this so called Marine did has brought shame and disgrace to the Corps and the military in general, you are as much of a fuck up as this guy is.

And stop crying about his ruined career. Anyone who is going to start throwing dogs for distance and be STUPID enough to film it is not career material! Who are you fucking kidding? Put a paper hat on him and a name tag and color him lucky.

Lastly Sarge, I went to my father in law, a thirty year Marine with two Purple Hearts. The guy served in Vietnam and was one of the Frozen Chosin in Korea. A Marine's Marine said that Corporal Dog Toss was unfit to wear the uniform and made every other Marine look bad.

[MJM1959]

The Marine Corps values...

Honor: Honor requires each Marine to exemplify the ultimate standard in ethical and moral conduct. Honor is many things; honor requires many things. A U.S. Marine must never lie, never cheat, never steal, but that is not enough. Much more is required. Each Marine must cling to an uncompromising code of personal integrity, accountable for his actions and holding others accountable for theirs. And, above all, honor mandates that a Marine never sully the reputation of his Corps.

Courage: Simply stated, courage is honor in action -- and more. Courage is moral strength, the will to heed the inner voice of conscience, the will to do what is right regardless of the conduct of others. It is mental discipline, an adherence to a higher standard. Courage means willingness to take a stand for what is right in spite of adverse consequences. This courage, throughout the history of the Corps, has sustained Marines during the chaos, perils, and hardships of combat. And each day, it enables each Marine to look in the mirror -- and smile.

Commitment: Total dedication to Corps and Country. Gung-ho Marine teamwork. All for one, one for all. By whatever name or cliche, commitment is a combination of (1) selfless determination and (2) a relentless dedication to excellence. Marines never give up, never give in, never willingly accept second best. Excellence is always the goal. And, when their active duty days are over, Marines remain reserve Marines, retired Marines, or Marine veterans. There is no such thing as an ex-Marine or former-Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine. Commitment never dies.

Hey H@ck, tell me it is that you see in this video that displays these values. Explain to us non-Spartans how it brings honor to himself, the Marine Corps or any serviceman or woman who does serve with distinction. I see none of this in the video. And if you maintain that he is still fit to wear the uniform, then I think you DO need to be lectured on the military core values. Frankly, I think you are just another example of what is wrong with today's military.

[BobbyinTN]

Quote:

From: David Motari 'the Puppy Killer' MySpace page

I want to say first of all that I am really sorry for the whole puppy thing. I don't know why people are so pissed. It was a FUCKING STRAY!!!

Get the fuck over it! You know how many people I see get blown away on a regular basis?!?! Shit Man Not only the towle heads out here but my own friends!"

"I want to clear somethings up before tomarrow. This might be hard to believe but I am sorry about the dog. At the time I just really didn't care. When you are constantly under fire sometimes people develope a different sence of humor than what others are used to.

That video was from over a year ago and i dont know who put it out there but it wasn't me. It has been a real hard day. I don't know how they got my information but someone got all my information and i had to disconnect my parents and my girlfriends phone. not to mention i had to redo my myspace because it got hacked. I just want this to end.

" And: "What, you expect me to carry a stray sick dog from patrol 10+ miles back to camp with me. Did you know that we're not supposed to have dogs? Did you know that there isn't medicine available for animals out there? So what the fuck do you want me to do with it. It was going to die a slow and horrible death.

Sorry you guys saw that, but it wasn't supposed to ever been shown. Usually what happens is we shoot them. I was being "creative" that day and decided to throw the dog instead. If i could take it back, I would. Either way, I did the dog a favor. Sorry if you can't understand that." AND: "Look, you guys didn't know that the dog was sick and starving by the road. I was helping it. That dog was going to die anyways".

End Quote
--------------------------

By his reasoning since everything is "going to die anyway", it doesn't matter how we treat animals? People?

FUCK HIM!! He showed now compassion and deserves none. You people that think it's okay are also sick fucks.

[Angiekay]

Jesus....if you whining humanitarian wannabes would actually take this lame effort for a dog and apply it to true causes like poverty, homelessness, sick kids or any of the other actual worthwhile causes in this country, I might want to listen to your pathetic rantings. Right now you all sound like a bunch of ingrateful babies to a man who is fighting for your asses to whine on a message board. If I was him, I'd pick a number of you to throw off a cliff.

[StoneCold]

Jesus....if you whining humanitarian wannabes would actually take this lame effort for a dog and apply it to true causes like [b]poverty, homelessness, sick kids or any of the other actual worthwhile causes in this country, I might want to listen to your pathetic rantings. Right now you all sound like a bunch of ingrateful babies to a man who is fighting for your asses to whine on a message board. If I was him, I'd pick a number of you to throw off a cliff.

[/b]

Sorry to bump this but your last post is an insult to sane people who care about right and wrong and do help others.

There's been plenty of military people on here that see through attempts at justification. Carlitto doesn't want to see a fellow soldier's life ruined which is why he got the response he did. You can't justify Motari's actions so what do you expect the response to be?

It doesn't lessen appreciation for Carlitto's work but whether he was playing devil's advocate or truly believes what he posted, he brought it on himself.

As for empathy in those other areas, that we can see wrongness here shows we have empathy for others as well. This isn't a contest for who's done the most good in their lives. Being in the military doesn't make you a saint and as someone above posted, it also doesn't get you a free pass when you get in trouble.

[MJM1959]

Jesus....if you whining humanitarian wannabes would actually take this lame effort for a dog and apply it to true causes like poverty, homelessness, sick kids or any of the other actual worthwhile causes in this country, I might want to listen to your pathetic rantings. Right now you all sound like a bunch of ingrateful babies to a man who is fighting for your asses to whine on a message board. If I was him, I'd pick a number of you to throw off a cliff.

Spoken like a true bumper sticker patriot. "Support The Troops!" "The Surge Is Working" First of all, he is not fighting for me or you or anyone else here. He is fighting for a C student that somehow became president and decided to start an elective war. A folly that has accomplished little to nothing after five years and hundreds of billions of dollars. Excuse me if I am not overflowing with gratitude for his mediocre service. And BTW, his type do not pick fights with anyone their own size. Cowards can only pick on the weak and defenseless.

[SteveForever]

Being a service member he should have higher principles, but with 3.2 million
people serving in the United States military you are bound to have a few freaks.

[Carlitto H@kk]

I am gonna graciously withdrawal from this discussion because I can see that my opinion seems to only get people more riled up. There are people getting so angry that, because of my opinion on this one, single event, my own character has come to question and that is pretty funny. I am now a “sick fuck” and a “sadistic, worthless idiot”. I am someone that “needs counseling” and “an example of what is wrong with today’s military”. All very laughable assumptions just because, while I think what this guy did was wrong, I do not believe he deserves the shit-storm that is about to hit him. You are all defining my entire persona and character because of ONE opinion just like you are defining this guy’s persona and character from ONE event.

The Navy guy wants to post definitions of the military values all of the services share. He wants to preach to me about Honor, Courage, Commitment, Integrity…
Guess what? I get it. I also get that, if we were all living in your “perfect world”, 50% of ALL men & women currently serving in the military would be brought up on some type of charge or violation against these values you refer to. Why? Because everyone does or says something, at some point, that can be offensive or disturbing to someone else.

The Navy guy went so far as to ask his father-in-law’s opinion on this; a 30-year retired Marine that served in ‘Nam and Korea (would love to learn what the Frozen Chosin means). Meaning no disrespect to this gentleman by any means, but I wonder what his opinion would be on this thought: If the technology today (internet, cell phones, simplistic video devices) were available 30-40 years ago, how many of his comrades would be facing the same kind of scrutiny and public humiliation this guy is? Think about it. These kinds of things happen in times of war. They have since the dawn of time and I am sure this type of behavior, and possibly far worse, happened in ‘Nam and Korea.

Some other guy wants to really stir shit up and starts posting links to other disturbing videos apparently from Iraq (can’t get to those links to see them right now). What is your point? Are you trying to make a point that we are all a bunch of “sick fucks” in the military or are you trying to bring to light the bigger, more pressing problem that is going on? Do you want to see all these men and women thrown in jail or are you rallying for a cure to the real problem? Do you even know what the real problem with all of these instances??? No? I’ll give you my 2 cents. And again, just my opinion here…

The REAL problem in these instances isn’t necessarily the individual. It is the System. The Gov’t has failed its military members. The military leaders have failed their members. They can train you on all kinds of things before you go into combat. But they cannot train you on how to properly cope with or react to traumatic and stressful events/environments. What you can watch in these videos is nothing compared to what is happening on the home-front.

Specifically in the Army and Marines, rates for post-deployment Suicides, Murders, Divorces, Abuse and Sexual Assault have reached record proportions. The Gov’t has put these men & women in this hostile environment without any idea on how to handle the effects it is having on the troops. Does it surprise anyone that some disturbing things are happening over there? Should ALL of these folks be hung out to dry, discharged and sent to prison? Sure, I will concede that there are some cases of the individual being a flat-out psycho path. But what about the guy or gal that just doesn’t know how to cope with what they have seen? What about the guy or gal that has been so traumatized that they’ve lost a slight grip of their emotions and reality? Shouldn’t we be more concerned about having proper help in place for them? Shouldn’t the focus be on getting these folks the help they need instead of crying for their heads on a platter and destroying their lives and careers?

This is why I do not agree with most of you in this thread. You want to call him names, kick his ass, throw him in jail, toss him in a gully… Ever think he just might be one hell of a Marine that made a bad decision while he was under a bit of stress for 12-18 months in a hostile environment? Have you considered that this hostile environment really traumatized him, fucked him up in the head and he probably needs some help? He won’t say it; how many guys, especially Marines, like to admit weakness?

But that’s just where I have been coming from on this topic. Don’t worry; I won’t bother you anymore on this.
I can see that whatever I say will only sink my character lower…

[Angiekay]

Spoken like a true bumper sticker patriot. "Support The Troops!" "The Surge Is Working" First of all, he is not fighting for me or you or anyone else here. He is fighting for a C student that somehow became president and decided to start an elective war. A folly that has accomplished little to nothing after five years and hundreds of billions of dollars. Excuse me if I am not overflowing with gratitude for his mediocre service. And BTW, his type do not pick fights with anyone their own size. Cowards can only pick on the weak and defenseless.

Spoken like a true left winger who sits on his ass behind a computer and bitches and moans about people actually DOING something for thier country, voluntarily or not.


Those who can't do...bitch.

Good points made throughout Carlito, keep your head up!!


If you rest of you truly consider yourself sane with the arguements you've made, I'd most defintely rather NOT be associated with ANY of you. Our country is headed for a sad state when a dog is more important then man.

[Playitloudforme]

It still boils down to individual choice. If the system were to blame for all of it, every single last soldier out there would be cracking under this pressure, tossing dogs off cliffs, shooting kids, going as apeshit as it gets.

But they don't. It's a few. So I can't blame the system. I can sure as shit be angry at someone for making a dumbass choice.

Carlitto, thank you for all the service you've done for us. I mean that with my whole heart honey. I just can't condone or shrug off, or belittle the choice this man made. The system wasn't forcing his arm. He made a choice. Thanks for listening, man.

[Carlitto H@kk]

It still boils down to individual choice. If the system were to blame for all of it, every single last soldier out there would be cracking under this pressure, tossing dogs off cliffs, shooting kids, going as apeshit as it gets.

But they don't. It's a few. So I can't blame the system. I can sure as shit be angry at someone for making a dumbass choice.

Carlitto, thank you for all the service you've done for us. I mean that with my whole heart honey. I just can't condone or shrug off, or belittle the choice this man made. The system wasn't forcing his arm. He made a choice. Thanks for listening, man.

You know me, I have NEVER asked for Thanks or "tooted my own horn".
But I don't think you fully understand me when I say "The System has failed is military members".
And it wouldn't be "every single last soldier" because no two soldiers are the same.
We ALL react to our situations differently and cope with traumatic events differently.
But no one realized how hard this type of warfare would hit these troops and no one
really has ever put firm plans and programs in place to get these folks the help they
need. This war isn't just causing some soldiers to perform "questionable acts" while deployed.
They are bringing the trauma and stress and violence home with them and it is destroying
their lives, the lives of their families and everyone close to them.

Again, just my own humble opinion...

[MJM1959]

Spoken like a true bumper sticker patriot. "Support The Troops!" "The Surge Is Working" First of all, he is not fighting for me or you or anyone else here. He is fighting for a C student that somehow became president and decided to start an elective war. A folly that has accomplished little to nothing after five years and hundreds of billions of dollars. Excuse me if I am not overflowing with gratitude for his mediocre service. And BTW, his type do not pick fights with anyone their own size. Cowards can only pick on the weak and defenseless.

Spoken like a true left winger who sits on his ass behind a computer and bitches and moans about people actually DOING something for thier country, voluntarily or not.


Those who can't do...bitch.

Good points made throughout Carlito, keep your head up!!


If you rest of you truly consider yourself sane with the arguements you've made, I'd most defintely rather NOT be associated with ANY of you. Our country is headed for a sad state when a dog is more important then man.

Hey Dr. Genius! What have you done for your country? What sacrifices have you made? Until you can say something, anything, just shut the fuck up! I was in boot camp 30 years ago. Where were you? I have worked with the Navy everyday since February 15, 1978. Your contribution has been exactly what???

[Playitloudforme]

It still boils down to individual choice. If the system were to blame for all of it, every single last soldier out there would be cracking under this pressure, tossing dogs off cliffs, shooting kids, going as apeshit as it gets.

But they don't. It's a few. So I can't blame the system. I can sure as shit be angry at someone for making a dumbass choice.

Carlitto, thank you for all the service you've done for us. I mean that with my whole heart honey. I just can't condone or shrug off, or belittle the choice this man made. The system wasn't forcing his arm. He made a choice. Thanks for listening, man.

You know me, I have NEVER asked for Thanks or "tooted my own horn".

Never said you did. I was just offering my thanks to you.

But I don't think you fully understand me when I say "The System has failed is military members".

I do get it, actually. They have failed. Horribly. And at the same time, there has to be accountability at the personal level.

And it wouldn't be "every single last soldier" because no two soldiers are the same.

Agreed. I overstated. But it's also an overstatement to shrug this off to the system.

We ALL react to our situations differently and cope with traumatic events differently.
But no one realized how hard this type of warfare would hit these troops and no one
really has ever put firm plans and programs in place to get these folks the help they
need. This war isn't just causing some soldiers to perform "questionable acts" while deployed.
They are bringing the trauma and stress and violence home with them and it is destroying
their lives, the lives of their families and everyone close to them.

I completely agree. I have three friends out there now. I'm terrified for all of them. I already know one is screwed up because of it. So, here's the thing, and I guess the endpoint of what I was trying to say. Yes...the system sucks ass. Poor filtering is being done on the mental health of those coming in. Perhaps a better screening system is required. My dad was a Navy Seal, demolitions expert... he blew people up. That was his damn job. I'm sure he saw and did shit he wished he could forget.

The servicemen with this man... what did they do? We heard one say "that was mean." It wasn't just mean, it was deplorable, for anyone, anywhere, anytime. I know war is shit, and does shitty things, and exposes people to atrocities that no one, NO one should ever see. But that doesn't give anyone carte blanche to do as they wish, regardless of the situation. It can't, or else, we become the monster. Are we civilized? or not.

Again, just my own humble opinion...

as is mine, with total respect of yours.

[Angiekay]

Hey Dr. Genius! What have you done for your country? What sacrifices have you made? Until you can say something, anything, just shut the fuck up! I was in boot camp 30 years ago. Where were you? I have worked with the Navy everyday since February 15, 1978. Your contribution has been exactly what???

I can tell you were I HAVEN"T been...sitting on a computer blasting ONE OF MY OWN for a momentary lapse of judgement.


MY contribution...putting up with asshole, know it alls like YOU...sorry to disturb you... GOD.

[RedWingFan]

Why do we mourn thousands of dead soldiers when all we hear is how they're puppy murdering, terrorist torturing/waterboarding, uneducated boobs? This is what we're told and focus on. I mean according to libs, shouldn't this war continue? What's the harm of more dead terrorists and these scum of the Earth US soldiers?

This whole thread is pathetic.

[MJM1959]

Hey Dr. Genius! What have you done for your country? What sacrifices have you made? Until you can say something, anything, just shut the fuck up! I was in boot camp 30 years ago. Where were you? I have worked with the Navy everyday since February 15, 1978. Your contribution has been exactly what???

I can tell you were I HAVEN"T been...sitting on a computer blasting ONE OF MY OWN for a momentary lapse of judgement.


MY contribution...putting up with asshole, know it alls like YOU...sorry to disturb you... GOD.

And you HAVEN'T done anything else then have you? Except sitting on a computer....

Go buy another flag lapel pin. Maybe another bumper sticker. You will feel better about yourself.

[RedWingFan]

And you HAVEN'T done anything else then have you? Except sitting on a computer....

Go buy another flag lapel pin. Maybe another bumper sticker. You will feel better about yourself.

Don't worry. I'll get with Ang and we'll figure out something to bash our troops about. Does that make YOU fell better?