Herbie Herbert: One Man's Journey

[sniper16]

i would be cool if someone would be able to do a book like the aerosmith book where multiple points of view were written.
when he says he doubts they can have success with the new album, i think hes saying that even though walmart will sell and pay up front, people still have to hear it somewhere besides the store to go get it. the eagles had clear channel web site with free previews,and cmt played the video alot. they need a vh1 special maybe a 1 hour thru the years type and play the new single to get awareness.
its obvious hes a LITTLE bitter about some things/ people. overall nothing new.
i think he should write a book with andrew more about the behind the scenes stuff.
is the original frontiers artwork posted anywhere, i know ross has the freesom stuff.
good job andrew.

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

Indy and Yul,

JSS must have been right at some point or they wouldn't have named him the new lead. I can't believe that Journey would say that and purposefully deceive him just to get through the tour. if they changed their mind, fine. stand up and shout and be up front. no need for the pink slip via the grapevine. that was my beef.

sorry, don't mean to take this off the point.

resume......

[Saint John]

Indy and Yul,

JSS must have been right at some point or they wouldn't have named him the new lead. if they changed their mind, fine. stand up and shout and be up front. no need for the pink slip via the grapevine. that was my beef.

sorry, don't mean to take this off the point.

resume......

I disagree. Jeff was a "lease to buy" sort of thing. They leased him, tried him out, decided they didn't want him, and opted out. They couldn't do this with a big industry name so they went the logical route and picked up a much more obscure singer...leaving the option of dumping him, and no one caring, open. A rather smart move, but they should have treated the method of releasing him much differently. And before 10 or 20 of you come stomping in here like check day in the ghetto, you need to realize that virtually no one in Journey's general concert going crowd cares that Jeff was fired...much less how.

[Red13JoePa]

And before 10 or 20 of you come stomping in here like check day in the ghetto

Hey TragNora!
He did it again.

[ProgRocker53]

Indy and Yul,

JSS must have been right at some point or they wouldn't have named him the new lead. if they changed their mind, fine. stand up and shout and be up front. no need for the pink slip via the grapevine. that was my beef.

sorry, don't mean to take this off the point.

resume......

I disagree. Jeff was a "lease to buy" sort of thing. They leased him, tried him out, decided they didn't want him, and opted out. They couldn't do this with a big industry name so they went the logical route and picked up a much more obscure singer...leaving the option of dumping him, and no one caring, open. A rather smart move, but they should have treated the method of releasing him much differently. And before 10 or 20 of you come stomping in here like check day in the ghetto, you need to realize that virtually no one in Journey's general concert going crowd cares that Jeff was fired...much less how.

I worked as a mail carrier for a summer, and I always DREADED check day in the ghetto.. because I'd always roll into the ghetto at like 3:00 in the afternoon and everyone was impatient... ugh.

[ProgRocker53]

Discuss.

boy,, you sure put some deep thought into this one..

Well, here's some of my "Deep thought"

--This interview persuaded me to go out and buy VOICE. Hearing about all these vocalists being in awe of Neal's playing on that record makes me want to hear this first-hand.
--I totally dig the alternate Raised on Radio album artwork. Hey, has anyone ever seen the original Frontiers artwork? I'd love to see that...
--Amazing that Neal and Jon were cracking on Steve singing JON's SONG.... the one that ended up netting them several mill on its own.
--Also interesting to see how many records were sold from 1988 to 1996... interesting phenomena, maybe Journey taking a break was for the better after all?
--Here's my question... why was Kevin Chalfant not chosen in 1998, or in 2007 for that matter?
--I saw Herbie dissing on Velvet Underground... I'm not a fan of those guys at all, but they truly deserve to be in the R&RHOF.
--Neal is amazing. Freakin' unparalleled.

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

Indy and Yul,

JSS must have been right at some point or they wouldn't have named him the new lead. if they changed their mind, fine. stand up and shout and be up front. no need for the pink slip via the grapevine. that was my beef.

sorry, don't mean to take this off the point.

resume......

I disagree. Jeff was a "lease to buy" sort of thing. They leased him, tried him out, decided they didn't want him, and opted out. They couldn't do this with a big industry name so they went the logical route and picked up a much more obscure singer...leaving the option of dumping him, and no one caring, open. A rather smart move, but they should have treated the method of releasing him much differently. And before 10 or 20 of you come stomping in here like check day in the ghetto, you need to realize that virtually no one in Journey's general concert going crowd cares that Jeff was fired...much less how.

yup, the method. hold me, Dan. I'm still so hurt.

poor Jeff. I'm a dang frickin bleeding heart fawning chica. This is my last post on this. I'm gonna stop embarrassing him. I'm moving forward and I'm not looking back.

[Saint John]

hold me, Dan.

I thought you'd never ask!!! Woo hoo!!!

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

hold me, Dan.

I thought you'd never ask!!! Woo hoo!!!

[mikemarrs]

i'd hate to have been the person who delivered those checks,hell you could get killed if an error was made and someones check didn't make it,lol.

[mikemarrs]

most people spend those checks in five days and spend the other twenty five 'in waiting' lol

[Saint John]

most people spend those checks in five days and spend the other twenty five 'in waiting' lol

Absolutely correct.

[ProgRocker53]

i'd hate to have been the person who delivered those checks,hell you could get killed if an error was made and someones check didn't make it,lol.

They stagger the checks by two days, so half the ghetto didn't have a check when I rolled in on the first. I had to calmly explain to them that they staggered the checks, and that theirs would be coming in within two days. Somehow they didn't understand that concept and seemed ready to lynch me.

[NealIsGod]

The only thing I didn't agree with at all was the bit about SP not making eye contact with the audience.

I don't know, Laura. When I saw Journey on the ROR tour, Perry never looked at me, not even once. Sure, I was in Section 330, Row ZZ, but still...

[kgdjpubs]

Well, here's some of my "Deep thought"

--Also interesting to see how many records were sold from 1988 to 1996... interesting phenomena, maybe Journey taking a break was for the better after all?

not really...in the end, all you get is that Journey becomes only nostalgia, and new works are immediately discarded after a break of that length. Basically, you lose the all-important teen/college base because your target market gets older and the next generation wasn't around for Journey's success. If you successfully replace Perry, you get (theoretically) several new hit albums before 1992 when everything goes down. Now, a break from about 92-96 wouldn't have been all bad with the grunge thing that virtually killed any successful band in the 80s for several years at minimum.

--Here's my question... why was Kevin Chalfant not chosen in 1998, or in 2007 for that matter?

I'm going to leave 1998 out of this one, since he was in the band circa 94-95 before Perry came back. Add it up--only one thing really makes sense. 2007 is much easier and Herbie alluded to it. The older you get, the harder it is to keep your voice up singing those songs. Chalfant is close to Perry's age and not getting any younger. Put him out there singing on Journey's touring schedule, and he will have problems just like anyone else would. For Journey, the only chance of surviving is to get a singer who is in his 30s or early 40s who might be able to hold up for 10-15 years or so.

[TageRyche]

I don't usually read a lot of interviews, but after finishing up this one, I sure am glad that I did take the time to read this one.

Heck of an interview.

[kgdjpubs]

I think a singer change in 84 would have been disastrous. They would have had to find someone absolutely perfect, or invent a new sound like VH. I can’t think of any singer back then that could have pulled it off. Maybe Sammy himself. I’m a fan of Kevin’s, but no way he takes Journey anywhere near what they were. That’s my take.

If a new singer took Journey ANYWHERE after 1987, it would have been in a positive direction. Perry quitting the music business after ROR totally killed Journey as far as being anything other than a nostalgia act. He didn't just jump the shark, he quartered the thing and ate it.

Hindsight beng 20/20, I'm sure the band just thought Perry would take a year break after ROR, and then it would be business as usual. Then, life creeps up on you and now it is 3-4 years later, and everybody else doesn't know what to do about it. If you sucessfully replace Perry after Frontiers, or immediately after ROR, then you have a chance of making it. It didn't happen, and by the time they decided to move on (1994ish), it was too late.

As to who would replace Perry, there were several options. Michael Bolton sang with Journey at least once, so obviously he was a possible--though who knows how that would have turned out. Chalfant was around, though just a shadow of the singer he would become. Terry Brock of Strangeways could have easily done Journey while sounding unique, and I'm sure there were others. If Herbie Herbert could hand-pick Perry for the band, it's possible he could do it again. Not saying it would be easy, but doing it in the 80s when Journey was viable would have been FAR easier than doing it in the 90s or 2000s.

[SF-Dano]

I think a singer change in 84 would have been disastrous. They would have had to find someone absolutely perfect, or invent a new sound like VH. I can’t think of any singer back then that could have pulled it off. Maybe Sammy himself. I’m a fan of Kevin’s, but no way he takes Journey anywhere near what they were. That’s my take.

If a new singer took Journey ANYWHERE after 1987, it would have been in a positive direction. Perry quitting the music business after ROR totally killed Journey as far as being anything other than a nostalgia act. He didn't just jump the shark, he quartered the thing and ate it.

Hindsight beng 20/20, I'm sure the band just thought Perry would take a year break after ROR, and then it would be business as usual. Then, life creeps up on you and now it is 3-4 years later, and everybody else doesn't know what to do about it. If you sucessfully replace Perry after Frontiers, or immediately after ROR, then you have a chance of making it. It didn't happen, and by the time they decided to move on (1994ish), it was too late.

As to who would replace Perry, there were several options. Michael Bolton sang with Journey at least once, so obviously he was a possible--though who knows how that would have turned out. Chalfant was around, though just a shadow of the singer he would become. Terry Brock of Strangeways could have easily done Journey while sounding unique, and I'm sure there were others. If Herbie Herbert could hand-pick Perry for the band, it's possible he could do it again. Not saying it would be easy, but doing it in the 80s when Journey was viable would have been FAR easier than doing it in the 90s or 2000s.

I know Mickey Thomas' name was batted around back then as well as Eric Martin. There were any number of singers that could have pulled it off back in the 80s. However, the longevity issues regarding the vox would still come into play regardless of who it was.

[kgdjpubs]

As to who would replace Perry, there were several options. Michael Bolton sang with Journey at least once, so obviously he was a possible--though who knows how that would have turned out. Chalfant was around, though just a shadow of the singer he would become. Terry Brock of Strangeways could have easily done Journey while sounding unique, and I'm sure there were others. If Herbie Herbert could hand-pick Perry for the band, it's possible he could do it again. Not saying it would be easy, but doing it in the 80s when Journey was viable would have been FAR easier than doing it in the 90s or 2000s.

I know Mickey Thomas' name was batted around back then as well as Eric Martin. There were any number of singers that could have pulled it off back in the 80s. However, the longevity issues regarding the vox would still come into play regardless of who it was.

Depending on the success that Journey may have had, it MAY have become a non-factor. With the grunge thing in the 90s, you could theoretically take off several years with little to no effect. That would have given your singer a chance to recoup their voice without hurting the band.

The other side of it is that IF the success had been enough and things go perfect, Journey theoretically could have become big enough to not have to tour on a yearly basis. Herbert was trying to set the band up so that you work to death for a few years, then just sit back, reap the money and do what you want for the rest of your life. Of course, the vocal cord shredding was a side effect of this process. The gamble is to become big enough that you get ahead of the shredding, and then give it time to heal without it costing you large amounts of money.

[journeywoman]

Discuss.

hmm

[ProgRocker53]

Discuss.

hmm

hmm?

[TRAGChick]

And before 10 or 20 of you come stomping in here like check day in the ghetto

Hey TragNora!
He did it again.

Haha...yeah....guy should do stand-Up.

Dammit ALL....

I REMEMBER READING THIS HEADLINE in "Rolling Stone Random Notes" in 1984:

"STEVE PERRY HITS WITH SOLO ALBUM; MULLS SPLIT FROM JOURNEY"

I kid you not...almost fell over when I read it.... ....can't find it in Google....

So....my thoughts:

Well #1 is, obviously, about Steve's ability to still sing...and yes, I agree....it IS a muscle; you don't work on it and practice/sing with the radio in the car/sing in the SHOWER; whatever....you will lose the STRENGTH of your Voice...

....but you canNOT lose your ability....unless, God Forbid, you were "clotheslined" by, um, barbed-wire or something.....

HOWEVER:

The MIND IS THE KEY....you lose your PERCEPTION of who you are and your belief in your abilities...well....sadly, yes....things will come to a screeching halt....

[slucero]

.....On the technical parts of the interview, and there were alot, and being a technical layman on most of the jargon and recording details , I got pretty lost in some places, but I got enough of it to keep up. I found the Nocturne things interesting....but I didn't follow the references to Steve P. costing them millions by making Journey Inc sell off their assets, wtih Noctrine being one of them, since Nocturne isn't really a money maker - so to speak- anymore? - Did I miss something there?????

If I remember correctly.... Herbie incorporated the band and diversified the corporation into trucking services, concert management/production, etc.. then sold those services back to Journey.... and other artists... and the businesses were making the band (and Herbie) major money... He also had the band members buy into real estate holdings as another way for the band members to invest the money they were making. At one of the "board meetings" (remember the band was a corporation), Herbie says Perry essentially got the other band members to agree to start selling off the businesses... thats where Herbies' comment (below) comes from...

...."And that was really Steve Perry that was the influence to say liquidate the investments, liquidate the real estate, liquidate the production company and he must have brushed a hundred million dollars off the table right there. And you know what? These guys should want to beat the livin' shit out of this guy. He cost them so much. He cost them so much. And cost himself so much and I've always said it's almost like he wants revenge and you know the old saying, 'if you want revenge dig two graves'."

Regarding the Nocturne comments... I think Herbie did sort of clarify it, stating they had to continually re-invest in Nocturne to keep the technology they use current.... even still, considering their client list... I can't see how they aren't making major bank.... check out the Nocturne website....

http://www.nocturneproductions.com/

[AlienC]

I think a singer change in 84 would have been disastrous. They would have had to find someone absolutely perfect, or invent a new sound like VH. I can’t think of any singer back then that could have pulled it off. Maybe Sammy himself. I’m a fan of Kevin’s, but no way he takes Journey anywhere near what they were. That’s my take.

If a new singer took Journey ANYWHERE after 1987, it would have been in a positive direction. Perry quitting the music business after ROR totally killed Journey as far as being anything other than a nostalgia act. He didn't just jump the shark, he quartered the thing and ate it.

Best comment yet.

Then I saw this

:arrow: The MIND IS THE KEY....you lose your PERCEPTION of who you are and your belief in your abilities...well....sadly, yes....things will come to a screeching halt....

[Saint John]

.....On the technical parts of the interview, and there were alot, and being a technical layman on most of the jargon and recording details , I got pretty lost in some places, but I got enough of it to keep up. I found the Nocturne things interesting....but I didn't follow the references to Steve P. costing them millions by making Journey Inc sell off their assets, wtih Noctrine being one of them, since Nocturne isn't really a money maker - so to speak- anymore? - Did I miss something there?????

If I remember correctly.... Herbie incorporated the band and diversified the corporation into trucking services, concert management/production, etc.. then sold those services back to Journey.... and other artists... and the businesses were making the band (and Herbie) major money... He also had the band members buy into real estate holdings as another way for the band members to invest the money they were making. At one of the "board meetings" (remember the band was a corporation), Herbie says Perry essentially got the other band members to agree to start selling off the businesses... thats where Herbies' comment (below) comes from...

...."And that was really Steve Perry that was the influence to say liquidate the investments, liquidate the real estate, liquidate the production company and he must have brushed a hundred million dollars off the table right there. And you know what? These guys should want to beat the livin' shit out of this guy. He cost them so much. He cost them so much. And cost himself so much and I've always said it's almost like he wants revenge and you know the old saying, 'if you want revenge dig two graves'."

Regarding the Nocturne comments... I think Herbie did sort of clarify it, stating they had to continually re-invest in Nocturne to keep the technology they use current.... even still, considering their client list... I can't see how they aren't making major bank.... check out the Nocturne website....

http://www.nocturneproductions.com/

Nocturne makes MAJOR bank.

[TRAGChick]

I know Mickey Thomas' name was batted around back then as well as Eric Martin.

YES! Thank you! That was ALSO mentioned in the RS "Random Notes".

[The Fly]

.....On the technical parts of the interview, and there were alot, and being a technical layman on most of the jargon and recording details , I got pretty lost in some places, but I got enough of it to keep up. I found the Nocturne things interesting....but I didn't follow the references to Steve P. costing them millions by making Journey Inc sell off their assets, wtih Noctrine being one of them, since Nocturne isn't really a money maker - so to speak- anymore? - Did I miss something there?????

If I remember correctly.... Herbie incorporated the band and diversified the corporation into trucking services, concert management/production, etc.. then sold those services back to Journey.... and other artists... and the businesses were making the band (and Herbie) major money... He also had the band members buy into real estate holdings as another way for the band members to invest the money they were making. At one of the "board meetings" (remember the band was a corporation), Herbie says Perry essentially got the other band members to agree to start selling off the businesses... thats where Herbies' comment (below) comes from...

...."And that was really Steve Perry that was the influence to say liquidate the investments, liquidate the real estate, liquidate the production company and he must have brushed a hundred million dollars off the table right there. And you know what? These guys should want to beat the livin' shit out of this guy. He cost them so much. He cost them so much. And cost himself so much and I've always said it's almost like he wants revenge and you know the old saying, 'if you want revenge dig two graves'."

Regarding the Nocturne comments... I think Herbie did sort of clarify it, stating they had to continually re-invest in Nocturne to keep the technology they use current.... even still, considering their client list... I can't see how they aren't making major bank.... check out the Nocturne website....

http://www.nocturneproductions.com/

Pretty impressive list indeed. Thanks for the link!!

[TRAGChick]

I think a singer change in 84 would have been disastrous. They would have had to find someone absolutely perfect, or invent a new sound like VH. I can’t think of any singer back then that could have pulled it off. Maybe Sammy himself. I’m a fan of Kevin’s, but no way he takes Journey anywhere near what they were. That’s my take.

If a new singer took Journey ANYWHERE after 1987, it would have been in a positive direction. Perry quitting the music business after ROR totally killed Journey as far as being anything other than a nostalgia act. He didn't just jump the shark, he quartered the thing and ate it.

Best comment yet.

Then I saw this

:arrow: The MIND IS THE KEY....you lose your PERCEPTION of who you are and your belief in your abilities...well....sadly, yes....things will come to a screeching halt....

THANK YOU, Allen.... :D

[Gordon from Edinburgh]

Not for everyone - but for me, there was growth and depth. Sorry, but I'd rather hear Still She Cried than Dead or Alive at my age.

Substance. And for me, far superior vocal quality on TBF. So much more. Don't get me wrong, I loved the old voice too, but the TBF voice moves me.[/quote]


You are not alone - i want a great singer to emote and there is a lot of great quality on TBF - four or five of my all time favourite Journey songs are on this album - if he systematically wanted to destroy this band - how did he manage to put in such an amazing performance on this album, make videos etc. He wanted it to work. I don't think HH said much in the way of new stuff or real fact about Perry. He said he has "heard" that the voice has gone - but Lukather said he actually DID HEAR that the voice was still there. HH screwed up badly if Perry got all the control - surely it was his job to keep some kind of democracy intact? If not, he was just as weak as the rest of them.......

[AlienC]

I think a singer change in 84 would have been disastrous. They would have had to find someone absolutely perfect, or invent a new sound like VH. I can’t think of any singer back then that could have pulled it off. Maybe Sammy himself. I’m a fan of Kevin’s, but no way he takes Journey anywhere near what they were. That’s my take.

If a new singer took Journey ANYWHERE after 1987, it would have been in a positive direction. Perry quitting the music business after ROR totally killed Journey as far as being anything other than a nostalgia act. He didn't just jump the shark, he quartered the thing and ate it.

Best comment yet.

Then I saw this

:arrow: The MIND IS THE KEY....you lose your PERCEPTION of who you are and your belief in your abilities...well....sadly, yes....things will come to a screeching halt....

THANK YOU, Allen.... :D

You're welcome.
It's true, I can say I know.

Sounds like something Dr. Chopra might say.