Change for the better and Where did I lose your love..

[Journey69]

OMG. Those songs are just incredible.. CFTB sounds like it came right off Infinity. WDILYL sounds like it came of Frontiers.. WOW! It also sounds like they reined Arnel's voice in a bit.. Man does he sound like Perry on those..JMO..

[Perrydise]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

[Journey69]

Don't be a tool ! Ok..I'll pay you to sound like Perry..Good luck!

[Rick]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

I think he's paid to sing as a tenor. I actually think he's got his own sound. He does sound a bit like Perry, but also Jimmy Jameson.

[Perrydise]

OMG. Those songs are just incredible.. CFTB sounds like it came right off Infinity. WDILYL sounds like it came of Frontiers.. WOW! It also sounds like they reined Arnel's voice in a bit.. Man does he sound like Perry on those..JMO..

Just responding to YOUR words.

[STORY_TELLER]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

Perrydise has a point here. Arnel is using Perry's stylings on some of these songs. Not all, but some. Especially shows through on "What I Needed". Straight off Rolie era Perry choices. The only time Arnel sounds like Perry on youtube is when he's singing Journey songs. Guarantee you he was told to insert Perry's stylings into these songs. Hence, Perrydise's comment.

[larryfromnextdoor]

OMG. Those songs are just incredible.. CFTB sounds like it came right off Infinity. WDILYL sounds like it came of Frontiers.. WOW! It also sounds like they reined Arnel's voice in a bit.. Man does he sound like Perry on those..JMO..

your a month late!!

[texafana]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

No **** sherlock. Imagine that, Journey wanting to sound like Journey. You peeps that want Journey to sound like "something else" other than Journey are hilarious! Like that would sell....anything.

[ProgRocker53]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

No **** sherlock. Imagine that, Journey wanting to sound like Journey. You peeps that want Journey to sound like "something else" other than Journey are hilarious! Like that would sell....anything.

Ahem.

Journey stopped sounding like "Journey" in 1978. If it wasn't for them taking a creative change then, you wouldn't be here now.

Album sales mean NOTHING to an artist's credibility.. especially if they're an established touring act like Journey. I guarantee they wouldn't take too big of a hit in the sales they're used to, anyway, if they decided to put out a neo-prog metal album with ambient punk influences.

....dude, that would be sweet.

[G.I.Jim]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

No **** sherlock. Imagine that, Journey wanting to sound like Journey. You peeps that want Journey to sound like "something else" other than Journey are hilarious! Like that would sell....anything.

Ahem.

Journey stopped sounding like "Journey" in 1978. If it wasn't for them taking a creative change then, you wouldn't be here now.

Album sales mean NOTHING to an artist's credibility.. especially if they're an established touring act like Journey. I guarantee they wouldn't take too big of a hit in the sales they're used to, anyway, if they decided to put out a neo-prog metal album with ambient punk influences.

....dude, that would be sweet.

PLEASE put down that crack pipe!!!

[Greg]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

No **** sherlock. Imagine that, Journey wanting to sound like Journey. You peeps that want Journey to sound like "something else" other than Journey are hilarious! Like that would sell....anything.

Interesting. When Steve Augeri first fronted the band, people were stating how close to Perry he sounded. In fact, it was Deen who said something about "Perry with a perm" in the BTM special. Actually, the only singer who has fronted the band since Perry's departure that really didn't try his best to sound like Steve Perry was Jeff Scott Soto. So, to revisit your point, you really don't have anything to compare to since Journey didn't attempt to put out new material with Jeff (and the Virginia thing doesn't count.)

Journey has been trying to sound like Journey all this time, but the fact remains the same...at least until we know for sure after June 3. And that is simply, Journey will not sell records like they did when Perry was in the band. Or at least, as far as being a true commercial success, they probably went out the door when Perry left in 1996. Doesn't mean I dont' want them putting out new music in the style that I like to listen to, but a Journey fan is lying to you if they say they dont' care if Journey is a commercial success or not.

[finalfight]

Actually, the only singer who has fronted the band since Perry's departure that really didn't try his best to sound like Steve Perry was Jeff Scott Soto

I would actually say that Jeff did try his best to sound like Perry, vocal inflections and all. However as his voice is so completely different he paid tribute in doing so, adding his own spin without merely mimicking.

[ProgRocker53]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

No **** sherlock. Imagine that, Journey wanting to sound like Journey. You peeps that want Journey to sound like "something else" other than Journey are hilarious! Like that would sell....anything.

Interesting. When Steve Augeri first fronted the band, people were stating how close to Perry he sounded. In fact, it was Deen who said something about "Perry with a perm" in the BTM special. Actually, the only singer who has fronted the band since Perry's departure that really didn't try his best to sound like Steve Perry was Jeff Scott Soto. So, to revisit your point, you really don't have anything to compare to since Journey didn't attempt to put out new material with Jeff (and the Virginia thing doesn't count.)

Journey has been trying to sound like Journey all this time, but the fact remains the same...at least until we know for sure after June 3. And that is simply, Journey will not sell records like they did when Perry was in the band. Or at least, as far as being a true commercial success, they probably went out the door when Perry left in 1996. Doesn't mean I dont' want them putting out new music in the style that I like to listen to, but a Journey fan is lying to you if they say they dont' care if Journey is a commercial success or not.

I don't care if Journey is a commercial success or not.

[Allied Forces]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

No **** sherlock. Imagine that, Journey wanting to sound like Journey. You peeps that want Journey to sound like "something else" other than Journey are hilarious! Like that would sell....anything.

Interesting. When Steve Augeri first fronted the band, people were stating how close to Perry he sounded. In fact, it was Deen who said something about "Perry with a perm" in the BTM special. Actually, the only singer who has fronted the band since Perry's departure that really didn't try his best to sound like Steve Perry was Jeff Scott Soto. So, to revisit your point, you really don't have anything to compare to since Journey didn't attempt to put out new material with Jeff (and the Virginia thing doesn't count.)

Journey has been trying to sound like Journey all this time, but the fact remains the same...at least until we know for sure after June 3. And that is simply, Journey will not sell records like they did when Perry was in the band. Or at least, as far as being a true commercial success, they probably went out the door when Perry left in 1996. Doesn't mean I dont' want them putting out new music in the style that I like to listen to, but a Journey fan is lying to you if they say they dont' care if Journey is a commercial success or not.

I don't care if Journey is a commercial success or not.

Unlikely this will be a commercial success. Look at what charts in 2008. The important thing for all of you as fans is if you enjoy it or not.

[ProgRocker53]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

No **** sherlock. Imagine that, Journey wanting to sound like Journey. You peeps that want Journey to sound like "something else" other than Journey are hilarious! Like that would sell....anything.

Interesting. When Steve Augeri first fronted the band, people were stating how close to Perry he sounded. In fact, it was Deen who said something about "Perry with a perm" in the BTM special. Actually, the only singer who has fronted the band since Perry's departure that really didn't try his best to sound like Steve Perry was Jeff Scott Soto. So, to revisit your point, you really don't have anything to compare to since Journey didn't attempt to put out new material with Jeff (and the Virginia thing doesn't count.)

Journey has been trying to sound like Journey all this time, but the fact remains the same...at least until we know for sure after June 3. And that is simply, Journey will not sell records like they did when Perry was in the band. Or at least, as far as being a true commercial success, they probably went out the door when Perry left in 1996. Doesn't mean I dont' want them putting out new music in the style that I like to listen to, but a Journey fan is lying to you if they say they dont' care if Journey is a commercial success or not.

I don't care if Journey is a commercial success or not.

Unlikely this will be a commercial success. Look at what charts in 2008. The important thing for all of you as fans is if you enjoy it or not.

I'm sure if Triumph released an album this year, and it sold 28 copies, you wouldn't care one bit about the commercial success and love the album regardless.

I'd be the same way.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Did you hear both songs all the way through ? If so how ?

[Greg]

I don't care if Journey is a commercial success or not.

Every fan wants their band to have recognition in some sort of way. Commercial success is what every fan of melodic rock should hope for in order for the genre to survive. Commercial success often means a band sticking around for awhile, or giving it up because it cost more to make music than it is being profitable. So, to say that you don't care if Journey is commercially successful or not means that you don't care if they ever make another album.

[brywool]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

Who gives a f*ck? The guy's a helluva singer and the band now sounds LIKE JOURNEY. Case closed.

[STORY_TELLER]

He is paid to sound like Perry.

Who gives a f*ck? The guy's a helluva singer and the band now sounds LIKE JOURNEY. Case closed.

I do. I'm turned off by bands who try to have new singers impersonate the originals. It's annoying to hear someone else mimic an original band member. I won't bother with Foreigner for that reason. Kelley Hansen should be Kelley Hansen, not Lou Graham. If Sammy Hagar tried to be David Lee Roth when he joined VH, I wouldn't have continued with the band. Arnel can sing his ass off. They should let Arnel be Arnel, not make him slip Perryisms into their new music.


And, to answer someone else's post, I echo ProgRocker's assertion. I could care less if Journey financially succeeds.

[Red13JoePa]

They should let Arnel be Arnel, not make him slip Perryisms into their new music.

I think that could just be the way he sounds, period.

[STORY_TELLER]

They should let Arnel be Arnel, not make him slip Perryisms into their new music.

I think that could just be the way he sounds, period.

Not hardly. He's not a Perryclone like most tribute singers, who go out of their way to try and sound like Perry on their own material. Go listen to his non Journey youtube clips from The Zoo. Check out their original ballad they made a video for just before he joined Journey. Nothing Perry about him on that stuff, just good vocals. Then go listen to the sample of "What I needed" from Revelation. He's making vocal choices there that stem from Rolie era Perryisms. There's intent here and it stems from Neal and Jon who want to recreate Perry's sound.

[EightyRock]

[ He's making vocal choices there that stem from Rolie era Perryisms. There's intent here and it stems from Neal and Jon who want to recreate Perry's sound.

Finally, somebody using those languishing brain cells, putting 2+2 together.

[slucero]

Perryisms.. LMAO.... that Perry admittedly "borrowed" from Sam Cooke.... so we really should call Perryisms - "Cooke-isms".... There's interviews of JSS where he says Perry was one of his main influences.... jeez...

Every musician borrows from their influences... ragging on Arnel for doing the same (at the behest of Journey or on his own) is simply hypocritical.


Don't buy it? Here it is in Perry's own words... interview here: http://steveperryfanclub.homestead.com/ ... urney.html

Q. You mentioned there were people who influenced you?

Steve Perry: I know this is hard to understand, but I would have to say everybody. A lot of my writing comes from the music of the late and early fifties, that musical simplicity, just more emotional. The early fifties vocalists were really good. Jackie Wilson was incredible. That was back when they were running a one or two-track tape machine. There were no vocal overdubs. Keeping this in mind, these singers were just incredible. I was extremely influenced by the use of echo techniques by Sam Cooke. His tonal qualities he had incredible tone. It would take hours to name everybody. Marion Reynolds and Diana Ross I thought were great. A lot of women singers I thought had tremendous voices. Dee Dee Sharp and Aretha Franklin; she still does. On the other side, I was never fond of Elvis' voice, though I liked Hound Dog and some of the semi-offbeat rhythms were great. I remember buying those records. I even have some old Chuck Berry 78s. Remember the song Green Door? That was a favourite of mine when I was small.

Then the sixties came along. All the surf stuff here comes that falsetto The Beach Boys and Frankie Valli, Lou Christy, Light and Stars Again. Intermingling with all those were all the Motown artists, Aretha Franklin, Sam, Marvin Gaye, Joe Tex, Diana Ross, all that. Then in the later sixties the English groups influenced me. Jack Bruce of Cream was a creative and dynamic singer, for what they were doing. Melding the falsetto into the harmony above it, in a hard-rock format, that was fantastic. Now it has become so sophisticated that I want to get back to a more basic approach.

[STORY_TELLER]

Perryisms.. LMAO.... that Perry admittedly "borrowed" from Sam Cooke.... so we really should call Perryisms - "Cooke-isms".... There's interviews of JSS where he says Perry was one of his main influences.... jeez...

Every musician borrows from their influences... ragging on Arnel for doing the same (at the behest of Journey or on his own) is simply hypocritical.


Don't buy it? Here it is in Perry's own words... interview here: http://steveperryfanclub.homestead.com/ ... urney.html

Q. You mentioned there were people who influenced you?

Steve Perry: I know this is hard to understand, but I would have to say everybody. A lot of my writing comes from the music of the late and early fifties, that musical simplicity, just more emotional. The early fifties vocalists were really good. Jackie Wilson was incredible. That was back when they were running a one or two-track tape machine. There were no vocal overdubs. Keeping this in mind, these singers were just incredible. I was extremely influenced by the use of echo techniques by Sam Cooke. His tonal qualities he had incredible tone. It would take hours to name everybody. Marion Reynolds and Diana Ross I thought were great. A lot of women singers I thought had tremendous voices. Dee Dee Sharp and Aretha Franklin; she still does. On the other side, I was never fond of Elvis' voice, though I liked Hound Dog and some of the semi-offbeat rhythms were great. I remember buying those records. I even have some old Chuck Berry 78s. Remember the song Green Door? That was a favourite of mine when I was small.

Then the sixties came along. All the surf stuff here comes that falsetto The Beach Boys and Frankie Valli, Lou Christy, Light and Stars Again. Intermingling with all those were all the Motown artists, Aretha Franklin, Sam, Marvin Gaye, Joe Tex, Diana Ross, all that. Then in the later sixties the English groups influenced me. Jack Bruce of Cream was a creative and dynamic singer, for what they were doing. Melding the falsetto into the harmony above it, in a hard-rock format, that was fantastic. Now it has become so sophisticated that I want to get back to a more basic approach.

Dude, all artists are influenced by other artists at some point. No one is 100% original. This can be said of every singer in existence and every illustrator in existence. I'm an artist myself so I know of what I speak. Perry was influenced by Sam Cooke, among others, absolutely, but he did what most talented artists do. He took the influence and did something original with it. He evolved the approach, putting his own unique stamp on it. This is why Perry and Rod Stewart, both who were heavily influenced by Sam Cooke, aren't mistaken for Cooke. No one refers to Perry as a Sam Cooke clone. Same can't be said for singers like Hugo (among others). You'll notice singers like Hugo aren't referred to as Sam Cooke clones? This is because the vocal turns and melody choices Perry uses are not a cloning of Cooke. A great deal of the stuff Augeri did while in Journey and what Arnel is doing now (on the samplers I've heard) are absolutely Perry's approach, not Sam Cooke's.

I'm not ragging on Arnel and I'm not being hypocritical about anything. You're just not getting the issue that was raised. Arnel didn't sound like Perry on his own music before he joined Journey. Go listen to his solo album tracks. Go listen to the ballad he made with the Zoo before joining Journey. Nothing Perry about him there. Sure, when he sings DSB, Faithfully or Open Arms, he does Perryisms. We're talking about new music here. There is intent to recreate Perry on vocals and it stems from Neal and Jon, not Arnel. I'm saying they shouldn't be pressing Arnel to be Perry. Let him be his own man. His voice is good enough not to need to do it.

[MarcelJordan]

I think in the some of Arnel's inflections actually deviate from the "Perryisms", even when he's doing the Perry fronted stuff. The new album will show some of what he's got. Guaranteed.

[STORY_TELLER]

I think in the some of Arnel's inflections actually deviate from the "Perryisms", even when he's doing the Perry fronted stuff. The new album will show some of what he's got. Guaranteed.

I know what he's got. He's got a great voice. I'm looking forward to the album. But go listen to the sample of "What I Needed" and tell me there wasn't intent to recreate an Infinity to Departure era Perry vocal. It's not the only clip this is evident on, just the one that's the most prominent.

Look, guys, here's my point. Neal wants Journey to be more than Steve Perry yet at every turn he's having his singers recreate Perry. In Augeri's case, I could see why. On some level it made up for his weaker vocals. In Arnel's case, I think it detracts. Worse, it leaves Arnel and the whole band continuing to stand in Perry's shadow. Why do that especially when they don't need to?

[Vladan]

STORY_TELLER,

I couldn't agree more, you certainly know what you are talking about, I'm not in denial about it, my head ain't in the sand either. At this point, Arnel sounds like another Steve Perry clone - case closed. There is no two ways about this subject.

Regardless, I am buying Journey's new album, because I miss Perry's voice. Great band still, nothing new about them really, and that's probably what they want, in fact I believe they are trying to stay true to the "most successful" period they had. 1977 - 1996.

[jrnyman28]

In Augeri's case, I could see why. On some level it made up for his weaker vocals.

I don't think it made up for anything...in fact I think that is what lead to the weaker vocals. It is very apparant on Arrival that Augei was singing in a different voice than the one he had with Tall Stories and Tyketto. He said he was seeing a vocal coach to help sing "helathy". But I think that the coach was teaching him how to sing a range that was not his comfort zone as healthy as possible. And that zone was weaker than his 'true' vocal.

[slucero]

Perryisms.. LMAO.... that Perry admittedly "borrowed" from Sam Cooke.... so we really should call Perryisms - "Cooke-isms".... There's interviews of JSS where he says Perry was one of his main influences.... jeez...

Every musician borrows from their influences... ragging on Arnel for doing the same (at the behest of Journey or on his own) is simply hypocritical.


Don't buy it? Here it is in Perry's own words... interview here: http://steveperryfanclub.homestead.com/ ... urney.html

Q. You mentioned there were people who influenced you?

Steve Perry: I know this is hard to understand, but I would have to say everybody. A lot of my writing comes from the music of the late and early fifties, that musical simplicity, just more emotional. The early fifties vocalists were really good. Jackie Wilson was incredible. That was back when they were running a one or two-track tape machine. There were no vocal overdubs. Keeping this in mind, these singers were just incredible. I was extremely influenced by the use of echo techniques by Sam Cooke. His tonal qualities he had incredible tone. It would take hours to name everybody. Marion Reynolds and Diana Ross I thought were great. A lot of women singers I thought had tremendous voices. Dee Dee Sharp and Aretha Franklin; she still does. On the other side, I was never fond of Elvis' voice, though I liked Hound Dog and some of the semi-offbeat rhythms were great. I remember buying those records. I even have some old Chuck Berry 78s. Remember the song Green Door? That was a favourite of mine when I was small.

Then the sixties came along. All the surf stuff here comes that falsetto The Beach Boys and Frankie Valli, Lou Christy, Light and Stars Again. Intermingling with all those were all the Motown artists, Aretha Franklin, Sam, Marvin Gaye, Joe Tex, Diana Ross, all that. Then in the later sixties the English groups influenced me. Jack Bruce of Cream was a creative and dynamic singer, for what they were doing. Melding the falsetto into the harmony above it, in a hard-rock format, that was fantastic. Now it has become so sophisticated that I want to get back to a more basic approach.

Dude, all artists are influenced by other artists at some point. No one is 100% original. This can be said of every singer in existence and every illustrator in existence. I'm an artist myself so I know of what I speak. Perry was influenced by Sam Cooke, among others, absolutely, but he did what most talented artists do. He took the influence and did something original with it. He evolved the approach, putting his own unique stamp on it. This is why Perry and Rod Stewart, both who were heavily influenced by Sam Cooke, aren't mistaken for Cooke. No one refers to Perry as a Sam Cooke clone. Same can't be said for singers like Hugo (among others). You'll notice singers like Hugo aren't referred to as Sam Cooke clones? This is because the vocal turns and melody choices Perry uses are not a cloning of Cooke. A great deal of the stuff Augeri did while in Journey and what Arnel is doing now (on the samplers I've heard) are absolutely Perry's approach, not Sam Cooke's.

I'm not ragging on Arnel and I'm not being hypocritical about anything. You're just not getting the issue that was raised. Arnel didn't sound like Perry on his own music before he joined Journey. Go listen to his solo album tracks. Go listen to the ballad he made with the Zoo before joining Journey. Nothing Perry about him there. Sure, when he sings DSB, Faithfully or Open Arms, he does Perryisms. We're talking about new music here. There is intent to recreate Perry on vocals and it stems from Neal and Jon, not Arnel. I'm saying they shouldn't be pressing Arnel to be Perry. Let him be his own man. His voice is good enough not to need to do it.

Doooooooooooooood... the guys had like 6 live shows with the band.. and recorded albums that no one has heard in their entirety yet.... YET... everyone is passing judgment on him like he's been with the band as long as Augeri.... thats hypocritical...

Perry simply sang.... and his influences came out with it... there's no premeditation there.. its just how he sang...

Besides - how HORRIBLE would it be if one of Arnels influences was PERRY, and it came out in his singing style.... also.. its damn near IMPOSSIBLE for Arnel to sing any of the classics and not use some of the same inflections that Perry used on the originals... because ITS THE WAY THE SONGS WERE SUNG.... Augeri did it, JSS did it... and they got slammed for mimicking Perry too... Jesus... to sing those songs differently would be to do the SONG and PERRY a great injustice...

No one refers to Perry as a Sam Cooke clone.

Sam Cooke died in 1964... so he preceded Perry in the 80's by 20 years.... and more to your point... No one refers to Perry as a Sam Cooke clone because Perry (or Stewart) didn't replace Sam Cooke OR sing his songs.... LMAO... get a better example Doood...

And I do get the issue.... yet the reality of it is this. I would rather hear the originals done the way they were originally... because they really can't be done any better... its the honorable thing to do.... Its quite possible that performing the classics way they were done originally serves two purposes... it gives the fans what they want.... AND pays homage to those incredible songs which Perry put his vocal stamp on..... its really the only way they band can move forward.... which is also the honorable thing to do.

Oh and I'm an artist too.. a singer actually... since we're "qualifying" each others expertise...