St. John and Tito.

[ProgRocker53]

You guys can drop the act now.. just be yourselves. It's getting a bit stale, okay?

[ProgRocker53]

He's been around for over 20 years. Please name Top 40 hits, gold and/or platinum albums, and songs played on the radio. And don't jack me off with excuses either, because artists want to have hits. And I know everyone repects him. People respected Mickey Morandini...doesn't mean he was a great baseball player. You, like others, simply can't differentiate a great guy from a great artist. He's a respected journeyman artist. Nothing more.

No excuses dude, top 40 hits and gold/platinum albums DON'T make an artist good or bad. It just makes them popular.

Are you saying Britney Spears, Smashmouth, 98 Degrees, and Hannah Montana are more legit artists than JSS?

Using your idiotic logic... it passes.

[Saint John]

He's been around for over 20 years. Please name Top 40 hits, gold and/or platinum albums, and songs played on the radio. And don't jack me off with excuses either, because artists want to have hits. And I know everyone repects him. People respected Mickey Morandini...doesn't mean he was a great baseball player. You, like others, simply can't differentiate a great guy from a great artist. He's a respected journeyman artist. Nothing more.

No excuses dude, top 40 hits and gold/platinum albums DON'T make an artist good or bad. It just makes them popular.

Are you saying Britney Spears, Smashmouth, 98 Degrees, and Hannah Montana are more legit artists than JSS?

Using your idiotic logic... it passes.

Those acts weren't around in the radio friendly 80's. Jeff was.

[ProgRocker53]

He's been around for over 20 years. Please name Top 40 hits, gold and/or platinum albums, and songs played on the radio. And don't jack me off with excuses either, because artists want to have hits. And I know everyone repects him. People respected Mickey Morandini...doesn't mean he was a great baseball player. You, like others, simply can't differentiate a great guy from a great artist. He's a respected journeyman artist. Nothing more.

No excuses dude, top 40 hits and gold/platinum albums DON'T make an artist good or bad. It just makes them popular.

Are you saying Britney Spears, Smashmouth, 98 Degrees, and Hannah Montana are more legit artists than JSS?

Using your idiotic logic... it passes.

Those acts weren't around in the radio friendly 80's. Jeff was.

I don't have any valid stats at hand but I KNOW people knew who Jeff was in the 1980s. Maybe not huge crowds, but he was a valid commodity after his debut with Malmsteen's Rising Force. Besides, didn't that record go gold? Even if it didn't it was one of the most popular and influential albums in the "shred" genre, putting Jeff at the forefront of a bit of a musical revolution. I'm willing to bet more people have heard Jeff on that record, than your heroes Cain with the Babys or Neal with the first three Journey albums (which I love).

BESIDES..

Jeff may not have gotten MAD airplay in the 80s but he's still a superior artist to many who did.

[Saint John]

Take down this thread as it's ridiculous.

[StevePerryHair]

He's been around for over 20 years. Please name Top 40 hits, gold and/or platinum albums, and songs played on the radio. And don't jack me off with excuses either, because artists want to have hits. And I know everyone repects him. People respected Mickey Morandini...doesn't mean he was a great baseball player. You, like others, simply can't differentiate a great guy from a great artist. He's a respected journeyman artist. Nothing more.

No excuses dude, top 40 hits and gold/platinum albums DON'T make an artist good or bad. It just makes them popular.

Are you saying Britney Spears, Smashmouth, 98 Degrees, and Hannah Montana are more legit artists than JSS?

Using your idiotic logic... it passes.

Those acts weren't around in the radio friendly 80's. Jeff was.

Really? What exactly was Jeff doing in the 80's? Most of the work I've seen started in the 90's which were NOT radio friendly for melodic rock. He started at a time when it was NOT friendly at all. And maybe he was in some smaller bands in the 80's, I have no idea since I do not know all that is JSS, but you know how hard it was to be noticed at that time in the late 80's. Not only was melodic rock on it's way out, but bands at the time were a dime a dozen. It was luck that got you noticed, not talent. Otherwise he would have the hits and I can name about 10 hair bands that shouldnt' have.

Also, you fail to remember that Jeff was the singer for Yngwie and even though YOU don't consider him any kind of artist, he is and a very well respected one, especially to guitar players. I have a brother-in-law who barely follows music anymore but he played guitar and when I told him Jeff was singing for Journey, he said "I know who he is, he used to sing for Yngwie." Just because he isn't part of the US top 40 hits from the 80's does not mean he wasn't successful or isn't successful. It depends on how you measure success I suppose.

But you know all this anyway yet you and Tito will go on and on. I don't get it.

[Tito]

You guys can drop the act now.. just be yourselves. It's getting a bit stale, okay?

What did I do?

[ProgRocker53]

You guys can drop the act now.. just be yourselves. It's getting a bit stale, okay?

What did I do?

Bump around for the past week downscaling Jeff's and Perry's accomplishments and talents, taking any opportunity you can to dig at them and make yourselves look foolish in the process. EVERY THREAD, even if it has nothing to do with JSS, has you two taking some kind of backhand at him.

[Tito]

You guys can drop the act now.. just be yourselves. It's getting a bit stale, okay?

What did I do?

Bump around for the past week downscaling Jeff's and Perry's accomplishments and talents, taking any opportunity you can to dig at them and make yourselves look foolish in the process. EVERY THREAD, even if it has nothing to do with JSS, has you two taking some kind of backhand at him.

I have never blasted Perry for his talents and accomplishments. Work ethic - guilty.

[ProgRocker53]

You guys can drop the act now.. just be yourselves. It's getting a bit stale, okay?

What did I do?

Bump around for the past week downscaling Jeff's and Perry's accomplishments and talents, taking any opportunity you can to dig at them and make yourselves look foolish in the process. EVERY THREAD, even if it has nothing to do with JSS, has you two taking some kind of backhand at him.

I have never blasted Perry for his talents and accomplishments. Work ethic - guilty.

It's one thing to blast his work ethic but some of the slurs and assertions you've made, were umbrellic in nature and seemed to say a bit more about SP than what you perhaps intended. Hell, some of the things you've said have made Red13JoePa look like a loon.

I just don't get how St. John has gone from being a borderline Loon and a JSS liker to being some kind of sales-quoting, chart-waving jihadist who's hellbent to downplay JSS and Perry and what they've done.

[Saint John]

Bump around for the past week downscaling Jeff's and Perry's accomplishments and talents

I have not "downscaled" Perry's accomplishments in any way. Unless my saying he's the "greatest singer I've ever heard" counts. The only thing I know about Jeff is that he's a highly accessible artist that's great to his fans. Any "accomplishments" I refer to are these things called facts. No hits, no recognizable bands fronted, and no radio play. Period. I'm done here.

[ProgRocker53]

Have you even LISTENED to more than 25% of Jeff's career?

I assert, nay.

[StevePerryHair]

Bump around for the past week downscaling Jeff's and Perry's accomplishments and talents

I have not "downscaled" Perry's accomplishments in any way. Unless my saying he's the "greatest singer I've ever heard" counts. The only thing I know about Jeff is that he's a highly accessible artist that's great to his fans. Any "accomplishments" I refer to are these things called facts. No hits, no recognizable bands fronted, and no radio play. Period. I'm done here.

If Yngwie's band was not recongnizable to you it's because while other kids were jamming with their guitars you were listening to New Kids on the Block, Expose, Paula Abdul, Barry Manilow.........

[ProgRocker53]

St. John's probably got a fucking Erasure poster on his ceiling and he's listening to Orchestral Maneouvres in the Dark while pondering which Billy Ocean compilation album he'll pick up next..

[Saint John]

St. John's probably got a fucking Erasure poster on his ceiling and he's listening to Orchestral Maneouvres in the Dark while pondering which Billy Ocean compilation album he'll pick up next..

I liked Billy Ocean a lot. The other 2 not so much. Billy's career went down the tiubes when he got caught smuggling a garbage bag full of weed into the country, if I remember correctly.

[Behshad]

Bump around for the past week downscaling Jeff's and Perry's accomplishments and talents

I have not "downscaled" Perry's accomplishments in any way. Unless my saying he's the "greatest singer I've ever heard" counts. The only thing I know about Jeff is that he's a highly accessible artist that's great to his fans. Any "accomplishments" I refer to are these things called facts. No hits, no recognizable bands fronted, and no radio play. Period. I'm done here.

Enough with your bullshit man,, its sickening.....

1st of, TOP 40 doesnt equal to great music ALL THE TIME,,,, there's been many shitty bands that have made it to top 40, and also many GREAT bands that never made it there.
Also, if you gonna go by a TOP 40,, then look at TOP 40's around the world. While you were jackin off to your Journey 20 years ago, Talisman had No 1 hits over in Europe,,, of course that doesnt count to you, cause they never made it here....

All this comes from someone who goes to a concert just to listen to the music...... might as well stay home and fire up your ole 8track and listen,,,, concerts are for visual pleasure as well,,,,, a front man makes and breaks the band,,,, if you rather JUST enjoy the audio, then you wouldve enjoyed Vivaldi playing his four seasons 300 years ago.........

What is your main reaosn to come here and bash Jeff every day? Is it because you want to get people upset ? is it because you want to make sure Jeff knows you hate him!? or is it cause you want to be the coolest dude on the board cause you can get away with bashin an ex member of Journey?

Andrew, where is the justice,,, I get attacked by other members when I ask some valid question,,,, question I had for someone who turned down Journey,,, you sided up with them and told me to put an end to it,,,, But how long is it gonna be OK for these two idiots to bash Jeff.
Like it or not, Jeff WAS a member of Journey,,,, so if you bash him, you both are bashing your loverboy Neal too, cause he is the one who CHOSE JEFF as their LEAD SINGER........

Jeff is a member of this board and community and he should get AT LEAST the same respect that any member is expected to recieve. If you have any problems with him, PM him .

[Tito]

Really? What exactly was Jeff doing in the 80's? Most of the work I've seen started in the 90's which were NOT radio friendly for melodic rock. He started at a time when it was NOT friendly at all. And maybe he was in some smaller bands in the 80's, I have no idea since I do not know all that is JSS, but you know how hard it was to be noticed at that time in the late 80's. Not only was melodic rock on it's way out, but bands at the time were a dime a dozen. It was luck that got you noticed, not talent. Otherwise he would have the hits and I can name about 10 hair bands that shouldnt' have.

Also, you fail to remember that Jeff was the singer for Yngwie and even though YOU don't consider him any kind of artist, he is and a very well respected one, especially to guitar players. I have a brother-in-law who barely follows music anymore but he played guitar and when I told him Jeff was singing for Journey, he said "I know who he is, he used to sing for Yngwie." Just because he isn't part of the US top 40 hits from the 80's does not mean he wasn't successful or isn't successful. It depends on how you measure success I suppose.

I was about to go off on ProgRocker, then I realize this was a different poster, thank god. LOL

Still, you guys need to go the same page.

You (SP Hair) contradicted yourself. You ask what he was doing in the 80s and then your next paragraph mentions Malmsteen. And you are way off about the 80s, that was very fertile ground for him and comparable musicians,etc. You're right about the very late 80s and early 90s, bands were a dime a dozen. Why wasn't JSS apart of that or other dozens? Trixter and Tuff (sorry, fans) did well, but JSS couldn't? Why? It was not luck that got you noticed, it was long hair and any ability to sing or play that got people noticed by then end of that era. You're right he could have had hits and probably is/was better than alot of artist toward the end of that era, but fact is he didn't and you, as a fan, don't even know what he did after Yngwie initially. He only got a following, after everyone went away. Persistence did pay off for him in that regard and I commend him for that.



ProgRocker said:
I don't have any valid stats at hand but I KNOW people knew who Jeff was in the 1980s. Maybe not huge crowds, but he was a valid commodity after his debut with Malmsteen's Rising Force. Besides, didn't that record go gold? Even if it didn't it was one of the most popular and influential albums in the "shred" genre, putting Jeff at the forefront of a bit of a musical revolution. I'm willing to bet more people have heard Jeff on that record, than your heroes Cain with the Babys or Neal with the first three Journey albums (which I love).

BESIDES..

Jeff may not have gotten MAD airplay in the 80s but he's still a superior artist to many who did.

Tito replies: Apparently not that many, ask SP Hair. He wasn't that big of a commodity if he couldn't catch on with the dozens of acts who made it big the era of 80s rock,etc. The forefront of the revolution was Yngwie, not JSS, who only lasted one CD. Not sure, you may be right who heard who more. But, that is still Soto's main claim to fame, at least for nearly 20 years. Don't forget Schon was in Santana. So, that to Journey, I may give Neal more of edge. Either way, Schon and/or Cain did more with their talents. JSS may have been more talented the others in the 80's, agreed.

[Behshad]

get your facts straight
He was on 2 albums with Yngwie, and 3 world tours.

[Tito]

You guys can drop the act now.. just be yourselves. It's getting a bit stale, okay?

What did I do?

Bump around for the past week downscaling Jeff's and Perry's accomplishments and talents, taking any opportunity you can to dig at them and make yourselves look foolish in the process. EVERY THREAD, even if it has nothing to do with JSS, has you two taking some kind of backhand at him.

I have never blasted Perry for his talents and accomplishments. Work ethic - guilty.

It's one thing to blast his work ethic but some of the slurs and assertions you've made, were umbrellic in nature and seemed to say a bit more about SP than what you perhaps intended. Hell, some of the things you've said have made Red13JoePa look like a loon.

I just don't get how St. John has gone from being a borderline Loon and a JSS liker to being some kind of sales-quoting, chart-waving jihadist who's hellbent to downplay JSS and Perry and what they've done.

I'll have to go back through my posts has review any slurs, etc.

The jihadist stuff was funny.

I AM NOT BLASTING JSS. I am critizing unreasonable ACCOMPLISHMENTS from the FANS. He isn't that bad, I've said that. But, he's not this big superstar everyone makes him out to be. That is all I am saying. You guys can like him all you want, I don't care.

[Tito]

Jeff is a member of this board and community and he should get AT LEAST the same respect that any member is expected to recieve. If you have any problems with him, PM him .

I have NO PROBLEM WITH SOTO!!! As far as respect, I think Neal and Cain have taken way more abuse here than any perceived abuse of Soto.

[Behshad]

if you dont care , then shut your mouth and move on.

[Tito]

if you dont care , then shut your mouth and move on.

Look at the title of the thread. I got called out, unwarranted I may add.

[StevePerryHair]

You guys can drop the act now.. just be yourselves. It's getting a bit stale, okay?

What did I do?

Bump around for the past week downscaling Jeff's and Perry's accomplishments and talents, taking any opportunity you can to dig at them and make yourselves look foolish in the process. EVERY THREAD, even if it has nothing to do with JSS, has you two taking some kind of backhand at him.

I have never blasted Perry for his talents and accomplishments. Work ethic - guilty.

It's one thing to blast his work ethic but some of the slurs and assertions you've made, were umbrellic in nature and seemed to say a bit more about SP than what you perhaps intended. Hell, some of the things you've said have made Red13JoePa look like a loon.

I just don't get how St. John has gone from being a borderline Loon and a JSS liker to being some kind of sales-quoting, chart-waving jihadist who's hellbent to downplay JSS and Perry and what they've done.

I'll have to go back through my posts has review any slurs, etc.

The jihadist stuff was funny.

I AM NOT BLASTING JSS. I am critizing unreasonable ACCOMPLISHMENTS from the FANS. He isn't that bad, I've said that. But, he's not this big superstar everyone makes him out to be. That is all I am saying. You guys can like him all you want, I don't care.

I dont' think it has anything to do with us thinking he's a superstar. I think most of us just think that he is a hard working talent and maybe one of the most hard working out there. Some of us LOVED him with Journey, not because he was a "friend" as Dan likes to portray, but because he knew how to work an audience and make a concert full of energy and fun. I did not know much of Jeff myself until Journey, I will freely admit that. I had to back track to realize all I missed out on. And I'm glad Journey gave me and others the opportunity to do that so that we could discover even more great music out there. I never said he was a superstar. Why does he need to be? Not everyone needs to be a superstar to get the title of talented front man. You are blasting Jeff all over the place every chance you get. I'm just trying to figure out why Why does it bother you that so many of us enjoyed his time with Journey and love to continue to follow his career ?

[SF-Dano]

My 2cents

All I will say is:

1. JSS is a very talented singer

2. Sales, hits, popularity are not the measuring stick I use to tell if a musician or group is "talented" or not. You are missing out on a ton of great music if you only listen to what is/was popular.

3. I would have had no problem sitting and listening to a "Vivaldi" concert 300 years ago. Hell, if Paganini was around today, I would go sit and listen. Concerts are as much for the ears as they are for the eyes. Can the artist pull the song off live, what differences might there be in the song presentation in a live setting, etc. A strong performance by the front man is a bonus, but not the primary reason I would go see a particular band in concert. There are several groups where the front man plays an instrument (ie. Rush, Night Ranger, Y&T, etc.) and yet the groups still puts on a phenominal show.

[Lula]

I AM NOT BLASTING JSS. I am critizing unreasonable ACCOMPLISHMENTS from the FANS. He isn't that bad, I've said that. But, he's not this big superstar everyone makes him out to be. That is all I am saying. You guys can like him all you want, I don't care.

he may very well be a superstar in the eyes of some. i'll not pretend, i am terribly biased with regards to jeff. i don't claim he is a superstar, i don't claim anyone is with folks like niel diamond, celine dion, and the like to be exceptions. jeff is fortunate to be able to make a living doing what he loves. the continuos negative criticism has gotten real old. the way you and dan go off on perry and soto looks to be nothing other than an ass kissing to current jrny for meet and greets.... pretty pathetic imo.

[Behshad]

Look at your own post above. You say you dont think Jeff is the big rock star like we think he is. At the same time you say you dont care if we like him. Apparently you DO CARE.

[Tito]

I dont' think it has anything to do with us thinking he's a superstar. I think most of us just think that he is a hard working talent and maybe one of the most hard working out there. Some of us LOVED him with Journey, not because he was a "friend" as Dan likes to portray, but because he knew how to work an audience and make a concert full of energy and fun. I did not know much of Jeff myself until Journey, I will freely admit that. I had to back track to realize all I missed out on. And I'm glad Journey gave me and others the opportunity to do that so that we could discover even more great music out there. I never said he was a superstar. Why does he need to be? Not everyone needs to be a superstar to get the title of talented front man. You are blasting Jeff all over the place every chance you get. I'm just trying to figure out why Why does it bother you that so many of us enjoyed his time with Journey and love to continue to follow his career ?

Thank you. This is my main point. For all the "backstabbing" complaints, this is what Journey did for him. They gave him a larger audience. Each individual from the masses will determine if they like the music or not. You did, I think it's ok. He doesn't have to be a superstar. Others here make him out to be. It doesn't bother me one iota about his stint in Journey and people enjoying it or not. My major problem is the unwarranted "backstabbed" comments and to a lesser extent the fans overhyped Stardom (NOTE: not talent or quality of music). Period.

[Tito]

the way you and dan go off on perry and soto looks to be nothing other than an ass kissing to current jrny for meet and greets.... pretty pathetic imo.

Don't go there, Soto boy.
I mean girl.

[RebornJrny]

I AM NOT BLASTING JSS. I am critizing unreasonable ACCOMPLISHMENTS from the FANS. He isn't that bad, I've said that. But, he's not this big superstar everyone makes him out to be. That is all I am saying. You guys can like him all you want, I don't care.

Dude, you better run for cover, here comes JSS fans and they are now after you.

[Saint John]

the way you and dan go off on perry and soto looks to be nothing other than an ass kissing to current jrny for meet and greets.... pretty pathetic imo.

I have never fawned over any band or band member. I've been to a few meet and greets. Honestly, I didn't say 3 words. I keep my music influences at arm's length. Ross sat next to me in Vegas...I said a few words and left him alone. I saw Cain 3 times...never said a word to the man. I saw Deen, chatted for all of 20 seconds and stepped away. I was invited to the actual room of one of the remaining 2 members and declined. In the past, I've given away after-show passes to people that I thought would enjoy them more. I understand they (band members)want their privacy at times, and especially away from "work." Which is exactly why I stay away from their tour bus, don't crash their after show dinners, don't go to sound checks (though I did do one in Chicago as it was open to the public), stay away from their hotel rooms, and don't want to "hang" with them. A chance encounter in a public place? Sure.