What The Hell Were They Thinking? Rerecording??"

[finalfight]

I wonder if people would be happier if they would have stuck Perry's hits on one cd and
Arnel's on the new for the bundle package? maybe they tried and Perry said no.

Jeff was a better show man on stage than Arnel in my opinion so he would have been
good on the dvd, oh well. Guess they had to make a clean break and run for the finish line.

Agreed, as much as I like Arnel's voice........I actually laughed out loud when I caught them on the Ellen show. I think he did a great job vocally, but whereas Jeff's showmanship comes across as natural and "rockstar"..........Arnel's stage antics came across as awkward and goofy. Especially when he was waving the mic stand around.

Can anybody who has the cd/dvd already tell me if either one of Deen's After The Fall or Mother Father are on the dvd?

And regarding "This Left Feels Right", I couldn't agree more. I love Bon Jovi but that was a huge waste, I have listened to that a whole grand total of one time since I bought it.

Mother Father made it to the DVD.

[Deb]

Journey should take Steve's vocal tracks from Street Talk and FTLOSM and record new backing. That way, it's Journey. Won't be new, but it'll be Journey.

How do you figure that?

[Deb]

I wonder if people would be happier if they would have stuck Perry's hits on one cd and
Arnel's on the new for the bundle package? maybe they tried and Perry said no.

Jeff was a better show man on stage than Arnel in my opinion so he would have been
good on the dvd, oh well. Guess they had to make a clean break and run for the finish line.

Agreed, as much as I like Arnel's voice........I actually laughed out loud when I caught them on the Ellen show. I think he did a great job vocally, but whereas Jeff's showmanship comes across as natural and "rockstar"..........Arnel's stage antics came across as awkward and goofy. Especially when he was waving the mic stand around.

Can anybody who has the cd/dvd already tell me if either one of Deen's After The Fall or Mother Father are on the dvd?

And regarding "This Left Feels Right", I couldn't agree more. I love Bon Jovi but that was a huge waste, I have listened to that a whole grand total of one time since I bought it.

Mother Father made it to the DVD.

Cool, thanks.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'm going to pick up Revelation package tonight and if I don't like the re-records they can collect dust with my other neglected CD's!

Same here.
So why can't I talk about how great the new stuff is, and also talk about what a waste the re-dos are.
I don't get this monolithic all-or-nothing attitude I'm seeing.
Very Back Talk.

[JrnyScarab]

I'm going to pick up Revelation package tonight and if I don't like the re-records they can collect dust with my other neglected CD's!

Same here.
So why can't I talk about how great the new stuff is, and also talk about what a waste the re-dos are.
I don't get this monolithic all-or-nothing attitude I'm seeing.
Very Back Talk.

Fair enough. Carry on dude! I certainly don't want to be lumped in with those ass kissing lemmings!

[SteveForever]

I second that notion! If you don't like it...DON'T FUCKING LISTEN TO IT. It's that simple. Slap in the originals and be happy.

Dissent is unpatriotic,
Freedom is Slavery,
Ignorance is Strength,
War is peace,
etc. etc.

I knew you were Big Brother.

[STORY_TELLER]

Walmart wasn't interested in a new Journey album alone. They want the package to be able to say "greatest hits" on it.

That right?

Then why doesn't it say "Greatest Hits" on it?


My copy of the album (the cover of which is COMPLETELY different than the '88 GH) had a small, negligible sticker on it that had in tiny print "11 new tracks, 11 rerecorded hits, live DVD."


Tango, your sig brings the whole screen to a grinding halt when going past it.
Gonna keep that at LEAST have her completely disrobe.

I didn't get the album yet so I drew an incorrect conclusion. I did so based on Neal and Ross both saying they re-recorded the hits because that's what Walmart wanted. They didn't want just a new Journey album as they did with The Eagles.

Originally it was going to be the GH's plus 4 new tracks and thats it. I'm drawing a conclusion again, but it's very likely the original deal was to have the package say "greatest hits" (or something to that effect), but was compromised and/or negotiated away along with the 4 new tracks only deal.

[brywool]

Since it was sold exclusively at a big box emporium for a dirt cheap price, it is somehow exempt from fair-minded critcism?

Never said it was exempt. I said that it's pretty freakin' cheap for a 3 disc set. It's not like you're paying normal CD prices for a 3 disc set.

No, but it wouldn't have left fans so incredulously scratching their heads going "what the fuck's the point?"

With Bon Jovi's acoustic album, it left fans going "You suck. I'm done with this band". I guess you'd have been happier with that...?

Another goosestep-marching Journey water carrier.

No, if I was that, I'd have been in cheering about the band's decision to use a singer not suited for the material. I wasn't. I'm not sure what you're problem is TNC... Not sure why you feel the need to start throwing insults...
I also do not weigh 300 lbs.

You epitomize those who turned a deaf ear as this band rotted from within.
When Deano rang the alarm about lipsynching, fans like you dismissed him with a tut-tut wave of the hand.

No, I waited for proof rather than jump on the "I hate Augeri bandwagon" like so many others did. I had been a fan of the guy since Tall Stories, I'd watched how he'd dealt with the fans, and when he got into a fix, I wanted to believe the guy because I like him and I liked his voice. With all respect to Deano, what sealed it for me was the guy who posted the "Journey weirdness" deal in Google newsgroups and not the proof here. Once I read that, I knew the game was up. I didn't call for Augeri's head because I can totally understand how the guy could've got into that mess. I also have a mutual friend and voice teacher (2 actually) who knows a bit more than what's been put out about the situation. I felt sorry for the guy. Ever done a gig where your voice wasn't up to what you want? I have, so I sympathized with him. I was incredibly pissed at the band for letting it go on. I bitched about them and swore I'd never give them another dime. Arnel's voice has changed my mind in a big way.

Just like IA DVD and a brand new GREAT album is pretty freakin sweet for 12.00.

Who gives a fuck what it cost?
We're trying to talk music here, u swollen capitalist tick.

Dude, seriously, what is your problem? I don't get your emotion at all...
And to answer your question, I CARE WHAT IT COSTS. We're talking music, but with the whole WalMart deal, that's almost more of a business discussion because the question has been "Why did Journey do this?"

They did it because Walmart- A BUSINESS, demanded that Journey- ANOTHER BUSINESS make this concession before doing anything new. From what I've heard of the new stuff, there are things different there (vocal approaches, etc.). So what? What's the difference if it was a Live at the BBC deal, King Biscuit Flower Hour In the Studio thing, or a re-recording of some songs? MANY artist have done this, from Chuck Berry to Kiss to Paul McCartney, etc. It's not that big of a deal and certainly not something to pick a fight over.

I suppose they could've put the old hits with Perry on there... and everyone would've complained that they repackaged them yet again. There wasn't much else they could do.

So let the fanbase kvetch. What's it to you?

So everyone else can state their opinions, but I cannot? Oh, okay TNC... Thanks for explaining the rules to me.

I don't get why everyone's bitching at all. The album is (apparently) doing pretty well for it's first day out, which is actually good for everyone in the Journey camp as well as the fans.

Doesn't put a red nickle in my pocket.
We discuss hit albums (Escape) and duds (Red 13) evenly here.

Red 13 was a dud. So was Dream After Dream, so were a number of B-sides. Regarding it putting money in your pocket, not sure what that has to do with anything... but in a JOURNEY group, I figured that good news for the band was good news for the fans of the band too.

It probably won't last, but why rain on the parade?
Seriously, this band cannot win no matter what they do.

Again, what's it to you?
You listen to a song on the radio and now you're ready to take raw loads to the dumper from these guys?
Get a life, man.

I haven't heard them on the radio with this. I probably won't. I've been a fan of the band since I saw the Departure tour. Regaring "Get a Life"- I think if you look at the post count here, you'll see you're way above me.

Seriously, I don't really get your problem with the album or with me personally. Have a good one.

[Liquid_Drummer]

This "crack" someone brought up in Only the Young...... Really man... That is nit-picking at its most extreme.... Wow..

[bru87tr]

I think arnel sounds great, the mix is just terrible. even NS guitars on some are too in your face.

[Red13JoePa]

it's very likely the original deal was to have the package say "greatest hits" (or something to that effect), but was compromised and/or negotiated away along with the 4 new tracks only deal.

LOL!

It's "very likely" that that was the case, is it?


Well, then good for Journey I guess for insisting that it be 11 all-new tracks, with a brand new album title and cover having nothing to do with "Greatest Hits" and the re records relegated to disc 2 with only a nominal mention.

[brywool]

Journey should take Steve's vocal tracks from Street Talk and FTLOSM and record new backing. That way, it's Journey. Won't be new, but it'll be Journey.

How do you figure that?

It was a joke.
All the members of Journey'd be on it (smith'd probably want in if it's Perry's voice)

forget it...

oh, and Eric Martin. Just thought I'd get it in there before you did

[Red13JoePa]

oh, and Eric Martin. Just thought I'd get it in there before you did

Tee Hee!

[Sarah]

They did it so they could license the music to commercials, etc, which Perry was so against.

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Yay for corporate whoring.

[brywool]

They did it so they could license the music to commercials, etc, which Perry was so against.

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Yay for corporate whoring.

You mean like "Any Way You Want It" with Perry in the car ad?
or "Don't Stop Believin'" with Perry in the Sopranos?

[Sarah]

They did it so they could license the music to commercials, etc, which Perry was so against.

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Yay for corporate whoring.

You mean like "Any Way You Want It" with Perry in the car ad?

Yes.

or "Don't Stop Believin'" with Perry in the Sopranos?

That's... not a commercial.

[brywool]

They did it so they could license the music to commercials, etc, which Perry was so against.

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Yay for corporate whoring.

You mean like "Any Way You Want It" with Perry in the car ad?

Yes.

or "Don't Stop Believin'" with Perry in the Sopranos?

That's... not a commercial.

no, but it is "commercialization" of the song for a use other than what was intended. Some people would see it as the same. Not sure I do, but I did mention it. Journey seems to have gotten a LOT of mileage out of that episode.

Speaking of songs in commercial's- Mellencamp had a song in a truck commercial. He said it was the best record company he ever had. Weird. Like it or not, songs in commercials is pretty much the way things go. Best one was Styx's "Mr. Roboto". Finally put that song where it belongs, in a comedic situation. Funny ad. Stupid song.

[stevew2]

This "crack" someone brought up in Only the Young...... Really man... That is nit-picking at its most extreme.... Wow..

Where is it, I cant find it? I aint blowin smoke up his ass but he nails this song {my favorite one to}

[Deb]

Journey should take Steve's vocal tracks from Street Talk and FTLOSM and record new backing. That way, it's Journey. Won't be new, but it'll be Journey.

How do you figure that?

It was a joke.
All the members of Journey'd be on it (smith'd probably want in if it's Perry's voice)

forget it...

oh, and Eric Martin. Just thought I'd get it in there before you did

Hey, I've been in Vegas for a week.......give me time, I'll get back on track.

God help you all after I see them both perform together at the end of this month. 2 voices that are just going to be killer together!

[Aaron]

I made one pass on it while doing stuff in the house so this wasn't a concentrated listen. I was expecting to be really pissed after listening to it. Oddly enough, I wasn't, I was somewhat pleasantly surprised.

I'm not sure who is calling the shots on Arnel's interpretation but I'd say he/they are smart bastards. Arnel caught my ear when he up stood Perry on a couple of spots by going higher than Perry did on the original which show cases Arnel's range. What a perfect strategy. Let Arnel put the vice grips on the old ball sack and turn the range up a notch for a one shot, studio performance. No one one will ever expect to here it like that live so he doesn't have to "turn it up" as everyone is expecting to here the Perry version. He only has to turn the range up when he wants to and/or can. I'd say that was a fucking brilliant strategy on Arnel/Journey's part. That shit caught my ear in a big way and I suspect will catch others.

Now who are the brains behind this strategy or is it just dumb luck? I'd have to say the only shot for it being a thought out strategy would have to be from Arnel. As based on Journey's recent and not so recent history, there isn't anyone smart enough from the existing crew to come up with this. It's either a stroke of dumb luck, Arnel or some new dude behind the scenes with a brain.

In any event, I say smart bastards this go around ....

[SteveForever]

I made one pass on it while doing stuff in the house so this wasn't a concentrated listen. I was expecting to be really pissed after listening to it. Oddly enough, I wasn't, I was somewhat pleasantly surprised.

I'm not sure who is calling the shots on Arnel's interpretation but I'd say he/they are smart bastards. Arnel caught my ear when he up stood Perry on a couple of spots by going higher than Perry did on the original which show cases Arnel's range. What a perfect strategy. Let Arnel put the vice grips on the old ball sack and turn the range up a notch for a one shot, studio performance. No one one will ever expect to here it like that live so he doesn't have to "turn it up" as everyone is expecting to here the Perry version. He only has to turn the range up when he wants to and/or can. I'd say that was a fucking brilliant strategy on Arnel/Journey's part. That shit caught my ear in a big way and I suspect will catch others.

Now who are the brains behind this strategy or is it just dumb luck? I'd have to say the only shot for it being a thought out strategy would have to be from Arnel. As based on Journey's recent and not so recent history, their isn't anyone smart enough from the existing crew to come up with this. It's either a stroke of dumb luck, Arnel or some new dude behind the scenes with a brain.

In any event, I say smart bastards this go around ....

or perhaps lightning struck!

[conversationpc]

Now that is one hell of a cool-looking guitar. I'd replace the headstock with more of a standard Strat-type and the fret markers with the standard dots but, otherwise, that's one sweet axe.

[STORY_TELLER]

it's very likely the original deal was to have the package say "greatest hits" (or something to that effect), but was compromised and/or negotiated away along with the 4 new tracks only deal.

LOL!

It's "very likely" that that was the case, is it?

Nothing erroneous or unreasonable about my conclusion at all Joe-Anne. Or do you think Journey's stupendous track record of sales during your much touted Augeri years made a positive impressionable impact on Walmart's deal makers? You'll notice that they couldn't get that deal without the re-records of the GH's? I'm speculating of course, but could it be they labeled them "11 re-recorded Journey hits" because they couldn't use the term "greatest hits" because Sony has imminent domain/proprietary use of the term "Greatest Hits" as it applies to Journey? Seems pretty reasonable to me that contracts would be written that way. Or is that another strange conclusion to draw?

[Arkansas]

I completely understand wanting to get out from under someone else's control...in terms of licensing, playing, rerecording, etc. However, why would I, as a director of a consumer-oriented business, want to license a song that isn't original? Or, even if not original, at least, closely mirror-image the original?

Uhm, but no. I would have serious considerations about licensing a song, commercially, and wondering if I was sincere or trying to deceive my buyers.

DISCLAIMER: I think the NEW Journey (disc1) is awesome, and AP is a sensation and a great story. I would love to be a part of that, and we'll see what happens.

However, I can't imagine licensing any of the remakes. Sure, the band might be playing better and doing things with greater intent, but there's no way in today's market that any classic song from this band has any relevance, except for nostalgia...which means the classic GH.

Would I do The Doors without Morrison? Would I do Styx without DeYoung? Would I do Foreigner with Gramm?
"I'm just sayin..."


later~

[StoneCold]

If all Walmart wanted was a GH+4, then Journey played it right. Using the GH as the bartering chip for a good new album.

As with most, I've never been on board with doing a re-rec of their old stuff in the studio (with anybody). Didn't want it, don't care that its there. Haven't even listened to it yet.

But if that's what it took to get the new album and DVD package promoted, so be it. I'm cool with the new stuff.

[AlienC]

I completely understand wanting to get out from under someone else's control...in terms of licensing, playing, rerecording, etc. However, why would I, as a director of a consumer-oriented business, want to license a song that isn't original? Or, even if not original, at least, closely mirror-image the original?

Uhm, but no. I would have serious considerations about licensing a song, commercially, and wondering if I was sincere or trying to deceive my buyers.

DISCLAIMER: I think the NEW Journey (disc1) is awesome, and AP is a sensation and a great story. I would love to be a part of that, and we'll see what happens.

However, I can't imagine licensing any of the remakes. Sure, the band might be playing better and doing things with greater intent, but there's no way in today's market that any classic song from this band has any relevance, except for nostalgia...which means the classic GH.

Would I do The Doors without Morrison? Would I do Styx without DeYoung? Would I do Foreigner with Gramm?
"I'm just sayin..."


later~

Actually, there is a huge market called "sound alikes" that serve it up.
When Music Directors aren't able to secure the rights to use a particular song that the script called for, they may contract with a composer to produce a song that parallels that paricular song the Director had in mind yet manages to avoid out and out ripping it off. Often a similar chord change in a different key and with a different chorus will do the trick. Get someone who can emulate a particular voice in that "setting" and you've can have an aural hallucination.
Requires a good knowledge of music composition theory to do well. Steve Vai and I had an interesting conversation on this topic back in '03.

There's a commercial out for a car (I think) that has a song that sounds like a hit from new group called "SilverSun Pickups".... but it's not.

BTW, they had already been licensing JOURNEY v1.2 for commercials, etc. Now, they don't have to pay more than simple publishing. I'm sure they won't have any problem selling the re-dos in the commercial and movie market. Most of the time the music isn't so prominant as to be as up front as in "The Sopranos".
"Remember Me" was so buried as to be static.

[Arkansas]

I completely understand wanting to get out from under someone else's control...in terms of licensing, playing, rerecording, etc. However, why would I, as a director of a consumer-oriented business, want to license a song that isn't original? Or, even if not original, at least, closely mirror-image the original?

Uhm, but no. I would have serious considerations about licensing a song, commercially, and wondering if I was sincere or trying to deceive my buyers.

DISCLAIMER: I think the NEW Journey (disc1) is awesome, and AP is a sensation and a great story. I would love to be a part of that, and we'll see what happens.

However, I can't imagine licensing any of the remakes. Sure, the band might be playing better and doing things with greater intent, but there's no way in today's market that any classic song from this band has any relevance, except for nostalgia...which means the classic GH.

Would I do The Doors without Morrison? Would I do Styx without DeYoung? Would I do Foreigner with Gramm?
"I'm just sayin..."


later~

Actually, there is a huge ancillary market called "sound alikes" that serve it up.
When Music Directors aren't able to secure the rights to use a particular song that the script called for, they may contract with a composer to produce a song that parallels that paricular song the Director had in mind yet manages to avoid out and out ripping it off. Often a similar chord change in a different key and with a different chorus will do the trick.
Requires a good knowledge of music composition theory to do well. Steve Vai and I had an interesting conversation on this topic back in '03.

There's a commercial out for a car (I think) that has a song that sounds like a hit from new group called "SilverSun Pickups".... but it's not.

Well, perhaps more to the point, why didn't the Sopranos just get the current Journey (with whatever singer) to do the song on their final episode? No, they wanted classic Journey to fit their time frame, AND because it's the most popular, no? So what's the point of doing remakes - for licensing - if the market only wants the classics?

I'm really, really curious to see what happens to the AP versions. My gut, right now, is NOTHING...well, other than getting the WalMart deal.
It's all kinda fascinating, yet at the same time, kinda stupid, however lucrative. We'll see.


later~

[brandonx76]

That's what I want to know...What the hell were they thinking, and when exactly did they STOP caring about the covers disc?

Anyone else notice the 'click' track on Open Arms and 'Faithfully'?!?! Did they even listen to the final product? This is like having the boom mic show up in a movie, on the final theater print! Maybe just maybe they printed the wrong masters of the covers disc. And yes, this sounds like a cover band, albeit a capable one...sorry guys, your live shows are much better than this.

What's with the tempo on Wheel in the Sky? Did they really need to revert it to 1978?

Why do the drums sound like shit?

Seriously, from an overal quality perspective, this is sub-par...If they were going to photocopy the holy grail, they should've involved some of the mimic magicians that have worked with Wierd al Yankovic...THOSE guys know what they're doing (particularly a producer I worked with in the past, Pat Reagan comes to mind). Speaking of producers, I have a feeling Kevin was rather distant from the remakes. Comparatively, the DVD live performance sounds MILES better than the studio cut (listen to Separate Ways live, just killer!). I do like Anyway you Want it and Be Good To Yourself sounded nice, but alot of other things irk me. 'Don't Stop!', come on, did we need to recreate the Sopranos finale?

I honestly think they could've and should've spent more time on the remakes. There's enough oddness about it throughout(save Arnel's ability to do vocal acrobatics with ease) that makes me think this was a half hearted attempt. Why would anyone listen to these over the originals?

BTw, I absolutely love the new album so far. Will see how it stands up over time, but glad the band is making really good NEW music.

[Liam]

The re-done Greatest Hits are a colossal waste of everyone’s time.
They hewed so closely to the Perry originals that now even the smallest variation comes off jarring.
The very idea of re-doing the hits also stands in stark contrast to everything Neal has stated since first reforming in 98
Previously he dreaded becoming a nostalgia act. Now he is actively courting it.

Andrew is right. At the very least, they could've mixed it up (accoustic renditions, extended solos, jams etc)

Right on all points.

[ttango1]

In deference to the critical ears of some sensitive souls. NO ONE WINS HERE. Journey still exists, ergo...they still perform. However, Steve Perry is no longer with them, ergo...Journey does not exist. Arnel Pineda sings with respectful reminisces of the before-mentioned Perry but since he ain't the Voice, it doesn't work. However, the new songs kick ass and are an exciting direction for the band to undertake, meanwhile the classics re-done, although for some ears, done very well but for others, are pure sacrilege.

Truthfully...how does 1 win?