Cornerstone Turning 30

[chowhall]

Put this in perspective: CSA hit #8 and Renegade #16. Hits no doubt, but not top 5. CSA along with Lady (6), Babe(1), The Best of Times (3), TMTOMH(9), Mr. Roboto (3),and Don't Let It End (6) cracked the top 10. Music was changing so a career or CSA or Renegade, I'm not so sure. AC/DC is an odd bird that way. But remember that AC/DC hasn't sold a new album with the sales they're seeing of the new one in a long time. Their back catalog sells well to this day, and yes, their albums are very similar (lol). I mean, Back in Black has sold nearly as many albums as Styx has in total. 'nuff said there.

I don't disagree that Babe, TMTOMH, Mr R., or DLIE brought a whole new audience to Styx. But if you ask the casual fan to name 2 Styx songs, I'll bet CSA and Renegade would be the top 2 choices today. They have stood the test of time the best of their catalog. I think Cornerstone was a good album and certainly a step in a different direction than they had been before. I think if they had regurgitated GI or POE, they would not have broadened their fan base, but may have made their base more loyal. IMO it would also have helped with Hall of Fame induction and street credibility whatever that's worth. I wouldn't Monday morning quarterback it and wish for something different, I just think the results would be skewed.

[StyxCollector]

I don't disagree that Babe, TMTOMH, Mr R., or DLIE brought a whole new audience to Styx. But if you ask the casual fan to name 2 Styx songs, I'll bet CSA and Renegade would be the top 2 choices today. They have stood the test of time the best of their catalog. I think Cornerstone was a good album and certainly a step in a different direction than they had been before. I think if they had regurgitated GI or POE, they would not have broadened their fan base, but may have made their base more loyal. IMO it would also have helped with Hall of Fame induction and street credibility whatever that's worth. I wouldn't Monday morning quarterback it and wish for something different, I just think the results would be skewed.

More loyal? Hrm. I'm not so sure. Hard to tell, to be honest. I don't think we'll ever truly know.

As for helped with a RnRHOF induction and cred, no way. Not even close. None of the bands lumped in with Styx like Journey, REO, Boston, etc. or other popular or prog bands from the era (Genesis, Yes, etc.) will get in. Based on sales alone, Journey would get in way before Styx. I'm not sure why people are holding onto the notion Styx shoud be in the RnRHOF. Granted, some selections in the RnRHOF are questionable and given the selection process, well, whatever. It's not a big deal if they get in or not if you ask me.

[Rockwriter]

Put this in perspective: CSA hit #8 and Renegade #16. Hits no doubt, but not top 5. CSA along with Lady (6), Babe(1), The Best of Times (3), TMTOMH(9), Mr. Roboto (3),and Don't Let It End (6) cracked the top 10. Music was changing so a career or CSA or Renegade, I'm not so sure. AC/DC is an odd bird that way. But remember that AC/DC hasn't sold a new album with the sales they're seeing of the new one in a long time. Their back catalog sells well to this day, and yes, their albums are very similar (lol). I mean, Back in Black has sold nearly as many albums as Styx has in total. 'nuff said there.

I don't disagree that Babe, TMTOMH, Mr R., or DLIE brought a whole new audience to Styx. But if you ask the casual fan to name 2 Styx songs, I'll bet CSA and Renegade would be the top 2 choices today. They have stood the test of time the best of their catalog. I think Cornerstone was a good album and certainly a step in a different direction than they had been before. I think if they had regurgitated GI or POE, they would not have broadened their fan base, but may have made their base more loyal. IMO it would also have helped with Hall of Fame induction and street credibility whatever that's worth. I wouldn't Monday morning quarterback it and wish for something different, I just think the results would be skewed.

Hmmm . . . I sometimes think the band members themselves point to "Babe" or "Roboto" as the reason they get no respect, but the honest truth is that, with the solitary exception of 'Crystal Ball', Styx NEVER got critical respect from RS, which is what would have had to happen for the band to be in any kind of running for the Hall of Shame. RS slammed GI, and its review for Po8 is one of the most embarrassingly rancorous reviews I've ever read in my life, ending with the classic, oft-repeated line "If these are the champions, gimme the cripples." LOL, that one had to sting! Bizarrely, the RS review for 'Cornerstone' called Styx "a great pop band", for what it's worth. But RS and that whole generation of critics hated not just Styx, but basically evey successful band of that era. Rush, Kansas, REO, Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, The Eagles, even Queen and Led Zeppelin. They missed the boat on all of that, so I cast a very skeptical eye on Wenner and his circle of elitist cronies. My question is, why does anyone even WANT to be in the Hall of Fame? It doesn't pay; in fact, it's a big sham to make bands pay a lot of money per table at the induction ceremony . . . the whole thing is a bunch of rigged bullshit that allows no input of any kind from the public in either the nominating or voting process. As I've said many times before (and I'm sure I'll say it many times again, LOL), until Wenner and his cronies are dead or otherwise out of power in that arena, the Hall of Fame can blow me.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

[Ehwmatt]

Share your sentiments completely Sterling. It's a shame because I'm from Cleveland and I was so proud to have the Rock Hall til it became painfully apparent what a fuckin joke it was.

[LordofDaRing]

Sterling, you certainly hit the nail on the head. I am not sure if it was RS or maybe it was some Stero magazine whose name escapes me that use to do album reviews that ran consistent bad reviews about Styx. When they got to Paradise Theater, it actually was a good review complimenting the production and the music, then they had to slam the "direction" Styx was going in. Just couldn't let them/us have that one victory. I am not a big fan of Cyclorama, but two sentences into the RS review proves the writer never even listened to it. One of several reasons why I cancelled my supscription with the horrible magazine. Patty Smith in the Rock Hall of Fame...phhhhhhhhhhh

[bugsymalone]

Sterling, you certainly hit the nail on the head. I am not sure if it was RS or maybe it was some Stero magazine whose name escapes me that use to do album reviews that ran consistent bad reviews about Styx. When they got to Paradise Theater, it actually was a good review complimenting the production and the music, then they had to slam the "direction" Styx was going in. Just couldn't let them/us have that one victory. I am not a big fan of Cyclorama, but two sentences into the RS review proves the writer never even listened to it. One of several reasons why I cancelled my supscription with the horrible magazine. Patty Smith in the Rock Hall of Fame...phhhhhhhhhhh

Britney Spears is on her, what, 6th cover??? 'Nuff said.

(BTW, she will probably get into the "Rock and Roll" Hall of Fame before Styx does.)


Bugsy

[Toph]

AC/DC has put out the same album for what 35 years now. If Dennis had another CSA or Tommy Renegade in them, who knows how long Styx could have milked commercial success. GI and POE weren't chart toppers and seminal music for the masses like Back in Black was, so they'd have had to have a #1 album to make it work. However, given the personal dynamics within the band, it most likely would have ended up the same way.

Put this in perspective: CSA hit #8 and Renegade #16. Hits no doubt, but not top 5. CSA along with Lady (6), Babe(1), The Best of Times (3), TMTOMH(9), Mr. Roboto (3),and Don't Let It End (6) cracked the top 10. Music was changing so a career or CSA or Renegade, I'm not so sure. AC/DC is an odd bird that way. But remember that AC/DC hasn't sold a new album with the sales they're seeing of the new one in a long time. Their back catalog sells well to this day, and yes, their albums are very similar (lol). I mean, Back in Black has sold nearly as many albums as Styx has in total. 'nuff said there.

Not to mentioned Show Me The Way went to #3.

[Toph]

Put this in perspective: CSA hit #8 and Renegade #16. Hits no doubt, but not top 5. CSA along with Lady (6), Babe(1), The Best of Times (3), TMTOMH(9), Mr. Roboto (3),and Don't Let It End (6) cracked the top 10. Music was changing so a career or CSA or Renegade, I'm not so sure. AC/DC is an odd bird that way. But remember that AC/DC hasn't sold a new album with the sales they're seeing of the new one in a long time. Their back catalog sells well to this day, and yes, their albums are very similar (lol). I mean, Back in Black has sold nearly as many albums as Styx has in total. 'nuff said there.

I don't disagree that Babe, TMTOMH, Mr R., or DLIE brought a whole new audience to Styx. But if you ask the casual fan to name 2 Styx songs, I'll bet CSA and Renegade would be the top 2 choices today. .

I bet Roboto and Babe would be mentioned as much or more...

[StyxCollector]

AC/DC has put out the same album for what 35 years now. If Dennis had another CSA or Tommy Renegade in them, who knows how long Styx could have milked commercial success. GI and POE weren't chart toppers and seminal music for the masses like Back in Black was, so they'd have had to have a #1 album to make it work. However, given the personal dynamics within the band, it most likely would have ended up the same way.

Put this in perspective: CSA hit #8 and Renegade #16. Hits no doubt, but not top 5. CSA along with Lady (6), Babe(1), The Best of Times (3), TMTOMH(9), Mr. Roboto (3),and Don't Let It End (6) cracked the top 10. Music was changing so a career or CSA or Renegade, I'm not so sure. AC/DC is an odd bird that way. But remember that AC/DC hasn't sold a new album with the sales they're seeing of the new one in a long time. Their back catalog sells well to this day, and yes, their albums are very similar (lol). I mean, Back in Black has sold nearly as many albums as Styx has in total. 'nuff said there.

Not to mentioned Show Me The Way went to #3.

I was trying to stick to the TS/classic years since everyone seems to forget they did an album with Glen and we're really talking about an album that nearly busted the group up. But yes, they did chart later than 1983.

[brywool]

I wont be celebrating anything to do with Cornerstone...........it was the beginning of the end from my point of view.

DING DING DING!!!
WINNER

[brywool]

I would call it "How to kill a rock band by DDY" all you need to do is put First Time, Babe, and Why Me in the middle of Equinox then listen to it all the way through and you'll see what I mean. YES no......NO yes :roll:

Actually, I liked Why Me. That was a decent tune. First Time is embarrassingly bad.

[greaper_ca]

I can't edit my post, wanted to add this:
I see Cornerstone as the bridge album. Without it - even with DDY in the band - they would have died a quick death in the 80s had they stayed on the GI or Po8 path. Like it or not, it was a necessary evil to jump from big act to mega huge, much like Journey wouldn't be the Journey we all know today without Perry if they had stayed on the track of the first three albums.

I don't know..you really think so? Bon Jovi wasn't a late 70/80's act but followed the same path in the 80's in my opinion and look where they are today. There was a time when I thought that Areosmith were dead, then back in the 90's for some reason came back.

Would I have posted it if I didn't believe it? Your timeframe is off on Aerosmith. Aerosmith's comeback started in 1987 after they got clean and sober, not in the 90s, but they sold new product consistently well until the mid-90s (i.e. through Get A Grip). Once they went back to Columbia starting with Nine Lives, it's been downhill for Aerosmith. So they had a good 7 - 8 year run of a renaissance. I'd say the Aerosmith thing was more of a fluke than anything else and it helped they had hot chicks in the videos It was good timing. Also, it didn't hurt that the whole rap/rock thing with Run DMC helped kick that comeback off.

Bon Jovi wrote pop songs from day one ("Runaway" anyone?), they were far from heavy IMO. They're basically the only survivors of the hair/glam metal era who still sell and enjoy huge popularity. Again, a fluke. There's always one in a bunch. It also helps that a large amount of women find Jon attractive and to some degree Richie, and growing up in the MTV era helped them a lot. Styx has always been pretty much a faceless band. I doubt most people outside of fans could pick out most members of Styx past or present in the mall if they were walking around.

AC/DC I'd lump in the fluke category as well. Look at the success of their new one in the USA with it only being a Walmart exclusive. It's sold as much or more than the Journey and it is only a single disc - not a new album + hits redone + DVD. U2 is another survivor who still sells tons of each album.

I really wasn't much of a big Aerosmith fan so I was probably off it terms of timeframe. I can't recall any albums that really stood out in the 80's from Aerosmith. But for some reason I felt that they were more popular in the 90's than in the 80's. Toy's in the Attic was a late 70's album..yes/no? As for the bands you mentioned, do you really think it was a fluke that they are still this popular or is it that they had very good following and that they kept releasing albums/cd's every so often.

[Rockwriter]

I can't edit my post, wanted to add this:
I see Cornerstone as the bridge album. Without it - even with DDY in the band - they would have died a quick death in the 80s had they stayed on the GI or Po8 path. Like it or not, it was a necessary evil to jump from big act to mega huge, much like Journey wouldn't be the Journey we all know today without Perry if they had stayed on the track of the first three albums.

I don't know..you really think so? Bon Jovi wasn't a late 70/80's act but followed the same path in the 80's in my opinion and look where they are today. There was a time when I thought that Areosmith were dead, then back in the 90's for some reason came back.

Would I have posted it if I didn't believe it? Your timeframe is off on Aerosmith. Aerosmith's comeback started in 1987 after they got clean and sober, not in the 90s, but they sold new product consistently well until the mid-90s (i.e. through Get A Grip). Once they went back to Columbia starting with Nine Lives, it's been downhill for Aerosmith. So they had a good 7 - 8 year run of a renaissance. I'd say the Aerosmith thing was more of a fluke than anything else and it helped they had hot chicks in the videos It was good timing. Also, it didn't hurt that the whole rap/rock thing with Run DMC helped kick that comeback off.

Bon Jovi wrote pop songs from day one ("Runaway" anyone?), they were far from heavy IMO. They're basically the only survivors of the hair/glam metal era who still sell and enjoy huge popularity. Again, a fluke. There's always one in a bunch. It also helps that a large amount of women find Jon attractive and to some degree Richie, and growing up in the MTV era helped them a lot. Styx has always been pretty much a faceless band. I doubt most people outside of fans could pick out most members of Styx past or present in the mall if they were walking around.

AC/DC I'd lump in the fluke category as well. Look at the success of their new one in the USA with it only being a Walmart exclusive. It's sold as much or more than the Journey and it is only a single disc - not a new album + hits redone + DVD. U2 is another survivor who still sells tons of each album.

I really wasn't much of a big Aerosmith fan so I was probably off it terms of timeframe. I can't recall any albums that really stood out in the 80's from Aerosmith. But for some reason I felt that they were more popular in the 90's than in the 80's. Toy's in the Attic was a late 70's album..yes/no? As for the bands you mentioned, do you really think it was a fluke that they are still this popular or is it that they had very good following and that they kept releasing albums/cd's every so often.

You want to know what Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, those kinds of bands had/have that kept them selling way past Styx? A consistent team and consistent marketing. Styx made a terrible mistake by letting go the core team that brought them their success, and for virtually every project thereafter, starting with Kilroy, they have either had a different manager, label, or some other missing element in the big picture. Very little to do with music and how good it is, everything to do with packaging and selling and how consistent it is. Look at Aerosmith, when they finally ditched management, they also took a huge downward turn. Styx has now had the same manager for a very long time, but his background is in touring, which is a very big part of why their game plan now hinges on touring, because it is his strength and it exploits his contacts. But they have not had the kind of consistent label support they need to have a viable recording career for the most part. If they had some time off to get over their overexposure, a fresh approach with a great producer that yielded an undeniable record (a la 'Supernatural'), a mega manager who had a winning game plan, and a strong label with an exclusive deal with a strong retailer like Wal Mart, Styx could have a career resurrection as well. But they are unlikely to do any of that. They seem set on their course and more or less determined to stay that course. The current situation appears to meet the needs of the band members for the most part, so that's kinda that, at least as it stands.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[pinkfloyd1973]

Sterling, you certainly hit the nail on the head. I am not sure if it was RS or maybe it was some Stero magazine whose name escapes me that use to do album reviews that ran consistent bad reviews about Styx. When they got to Paradise Theater, it actually was a good review complimenting the production and the music, then they had to slam the "direction" Styx was going in. Just couldn't let them/us have that one victory. I am not a big fan of Cyclorama, but two sentences into the RS review proves the writer never even listened to it. One of several reasons why I cancelled my supscription with the horrible magazine. Patty Smith in the Rock Hall of Fame...phhhhhhhhhhh

Mebbe Sterling, Allan or Chow can answer this for me.......Where and what for and by who did the phrase "Parking lot full of whale vomit" come from? I have a vhs of the BTM about Styx but i'd have to dig it out and find a VCR that works to find out


Robin

[StyxCollector]

Mebbe Sterling, Allan or Chow can answer this for me.......Where and what for and by who did the phrase "Parking lot full of whale vomit" come from? I have a vhs of the BTM about Styx but i'd have to dig it out and find a VCR that works to find out


Robin

I believe it was from one of the reviews of Pieces of Eight.

[stmonkeys]

i'm pretty sure it was jim cahill discussing a review of pieces of 8 or cornerstone.... but i'm not sure if the album in question was actually mentioned on BTM. i believe the quote was stated as referring to "the new styx record" which remained unnamed. i have the BTM somewhere on dvd... but i'm sure someone else will recall exactly what happened.