Styx should learn from Journey and others...

[Toph]

They know how to handle their back catalog - a second re-release of all the classic Journey albums from Infinity through to Frontiers - with additional bonus songs on each. For example, on Frontiers you get the original Frontiers plus the 2 songs (OTY and ATL) which were taken off for crap like Back Talk and Troubled Child. Ingenious.... I assume that these new releases, despite the new songs, count as sales totals for the original albums in their RIAA platinum status?

A&M should learn something from this. The Styx A&M catalog Equinox - Edge could be a goldmine if someone just updated the product and marketed it.

P.S. Did you know that Journey also re-released their Greatest Hits album and added WYLAW to it once that became a hit? Would A&M ever do that for Styx? Hell No!

P.S.S. Here is another missed opportunity. When RTP came out and did so well, an original song live should have been released as a single. Think what Fleetwood Mac did with The Dance - they released Landslide and it was huge - and it was a 25+ year old song at the time. Styx should have done the same thing with Boat On The River...

[Jodes]

I agree (GULP) with you Toph, but unfortunately Styx never really was big on bonus material and sadly although the "big four" sold 3-6 million copies each, I just don't think A&M (Universal) will bother. Not In North America. There was rumour of a re-release for the Grand Illusion with a live concert bonus disk, but that was shelved.

Now, with that said, someone just posted that A&M Japan has just released "Mini-disk" remastered copies of Equinox-Edge. So if you're interested in forking out the cash for that, I think Ebay has them all for a total of $318 US.

As for Boat On The River, by time RTP came out they were on CMC. Those guys couldn't promote squat and if they did they had a fraction of a budget then Universal does. I think CMC/Sanctuary are still stunned to this day that RTP sold nearly 700,000 copies!. Plus again you're comparing a band who had modest success with a band like Fleetwood Mac who sold tens of millions of ONE ALBUM and wasn't on A&M!

[bugsymalone]

I agree (GULP) with you Toph, but unfortunately Styx never really was big on bonus material and sadly although the "big four" sold 3-6 million copies each, I just don't think A&M (Universal) will bother. Not In North America. There was rumour of a re-release for the Grand Illusion with a live concert bonus disk, but that was shelved.

Now, with that said, someone just posted that A&M Japan has just released "Mini-disk" remastered copies of Equinox-Edge. So if you're interested in forking out the cash for that, I think Ebay has them all for a total of $318 US.

As for Boat On The River, by time RTP came out they were on CMC. Those guys couldn't promote squat and if they did they had a fraction of a budget then Universal does. I think CMC/Sanctuary are still stunned to this day that RTP sold nearly 700,000 copies!. Plus again you're comparing a band who had modest success with a band like Fleetwood Mac who sold tens of millions of ONE ALBUM and wasn't on A&M!

Agreeing with Jodes here. I think it boils down to simply no market for the money invested in re-releasing any of the Styx back catalog. Even if there were bonus material. It is pretty much up to the record companies to feel this is something worth their while. Styx is not in the sales league with Journey or many other groups whose music gets a spiffing up and a re-release.

I have no idea how well the Wooden Nickel collection did sales-wise, but I doubt very well. That right there may have been reason enough for any record company to back off any future re-releases.

JMO.

Bugsy

[SheriH]

Didn't I hear that Journey actually re-recorded their entire catalog with the new lead singer's vocals?

[Rockwriter]

I agree (GULP) with you Toph, but unfortunately Styx never really was big on bonus material and sadly although the "big four" sold 3-6 million copies each, I just don't think A&M (Universal) will bother. Not In North America. There was rumour of a re-release for the Grand Illusion with a live concert bonus disk, but that was shelved.

Now, with that said, someone just posted that A&M Japan has just released "Mini-disk" remastered copies of Equinox-Edge. So if you're interested in forking out the cash for that, I think Ebay has them all for a total of $318 US.

As for Boat On The River, by time RTP came out they were on CMC. Those guys couldn't promote squat and if they did they had a fraction of a budget then Universal does. I think CMC/Sanctuary are still stunned to this day that RTP sold nearly 700,000 copies!. Plus again you're comparing a band who had modest success with a band like Fleetwood Mac who sold tens of millions of ONE ALBUM and wasn't on A&M!

Agreeing with Jodes here. I think it boils down to simply no market for the money invested in re-releasing any of the Styx back catalog. Even if there were bonus material. It is pretty much up to the record companies to feel this is something worth their while. Styx is not in the sales league with Journey or many other groups whose music gets a spiffing up and a re-release.

I have no idea how well the Wooden Nickel collection did sales-wise, but I doubt very well. That right there may have been reason enough for any record company to back off any future re-releases.

JMO.

Bugsy

You have to understand the role the band's willingness to play ball plays in all this as well. If I have it right, the Styx guys themselves - ie Tommy and JY - nixed the GI remaster idea with the bonus live disc. Their current plan is quite simply to promote the band as it is, not as it WAS. And they have a degree of say over what does and does not get re-released from that era, unlike the Wooden Nickel era. If a company has the band principals on board to go out and do sufficient press to support remasters or GH records, that's one thing, and they can get behind it. If not, it's a lot of effort for the potential of insufficient return. Unlike Journey, say, Styx is a band that actively disparages a pretty big part of its own hit catalog. Not exactly an enticing promo package for a company thinking about re-releasing that stuff. And yet from the Tommy/JY perspective, having the world reminded yet again how great the glory years were doesn't exactly move THIS band forward. So it's complicated. Journey is a good example of a band that, although it's in a different lineup now, it realizes it needs to acknowledge all of the various elements of its legacy and fan base. Styx does not. Styx markets itself exclusively to one element of the total fan base for the band, forsaking the other almost entirely. Very different scenarios in that regard.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

[Toph]

I agree (GULP) with you Toph, but unfortunately Styx never really was big on bonus material and sadly although the "big four" sold 3-6 million copies each, I just don't think A&M (Universal) will bother. Not In North America. There was rumour of a re-release for the Grand Illusion with a live concert bonus disk, but that was shelved.

Now, with that said, someone just posted that A&M Japan has just released "Mini-disk" remastered copies of Equinox-Edge. So if you're interested in forking out the cash for that, I think Ebay has them all for a total of $318 US.

As for Boat On The River, by time RTP came out they were on CMC. Those guys couldn't promote squat and if they did they had a fraction of a budget then Universal does. I think CMC/Sanctuary are still stunned to this day that RTP sold nearly 700,000 copies!. Plus again you're comparing a band who had modest success with a band like Fleetwood Mac who sold tens of millions of ONE ALBUM and wasn't on A&M!

Agreeing with Jodes here. I think it boils down to simply no market for the money invested in re-releasing any of the Styx back catalog. Even if there were bonus material. It is pretty much up to the record companies to feel this is something worth their while. Styx is not in the sales league with Journey or many other groups whose music gets a spiffing up and a re-release.

I have no idea how well the Wooden Nickel collection did sales-wise, but I doubt very well. That right there may have been reason enough for any record company to back off any future re-releases.

JMO.

Bugsy

You have to understand the role the band's willingness to play ball plays in all this as well. If I have it right, the Styx guys themselves - ie Tommy and JY - nixed the GI remaster idea with the bonus live disc. Their current plan is quite simply to promote the band as it is, not as it WAS. And they have a degree of say over what does and does not get re-released from that era, unlike the Wooden Nickel era. If a company has the band principals on board to go out and do sufficient press to support remasters or GH records, that's one thing, and they can get behind it. If not, it's a lot of effort for the potential of insufficient return. Unlike Journey, say, Styx is a band that actively disparages a pretty big part of its own hit catalog. Not exactly an enticing promo package for a company thinking about re-releasing that stuff. And yet from the Tommy/JY perspective, having the world reminded yet again how great the glory years were doesn't exactly move THIS band forward. So it's complicated. Journey is a good example of a band that, although it's in a different lineup now, it realizes it needs to acknowledge all of the various elements of its legacy and fan base. Styx does not. Styx markets itself exclusively to one element of the total fan base for the band, forsaking the other almost entirely. Very different scenarios in that regard.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

Well if that is the case, Tommy and JY have absolutely no business sense. It bothers me tremendously the effort that has been made by two players of the band to literally ignore 2/3 of their success. that is 2/3 of the music that made me love the band. That is 2/3 of the music that got me to be a fan....Now, they bad mouth it. How is that supposed to make me feel?

[KWH17]

And the funny thing is, they aren't evn just ignoring DeYoungs hits like Roboto and Rockin' the Paradise, but also THEIR OWN hits. JY only gets to play Miss America, and occasionally Snowblind. What about Great White Hope, Midnight Ride, or hell even Young Man [idk what the general consensus is here about that one, but I think it'd make a solid live song]. Also, I think I'm alone here, but I love "What Have They Done To You" and would like hearing it live, but they don;t even play "Heavy Water" anymore, which even though it's a good song, is not my favorite.

Tommy too. Love in the Midnight, Cold War, Superstars, and a few others would be great to hear live, but he only stays with Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Man in the Wilderness, and Boat on the River [though this last one I can't complain about, it's one of my favorites of his]. I've heard Crystal Ball does get some play, but it's use should definitely be uped a bit.

They're either playing it safe for their younger fans, or are just playing THEIR favorites and ignoring the other ones. Either way they need to dust off some oldies and play those for a change.

[Rockwriter]

And the funny thing is, they aren't evn just ignoring DeYoungs hits like Roboto and Rockin' the Paradise, but also THEIR OWN hits. JY only gets to play Miss America, and occasionally Snowblind. What about Great White Hope, Midnight Ride, or hell even Young Man [idk what the general consensus is here about that one, but I think it'd make a solid live song]. Also, I think I'm alone here, but I love "What Have They Done To You" and would like hearing it live, but they don;t even play "Heavy Water" anymore, which even though it's a good song, is not my favorite.

Tommy too. Love in the Midnight, Cold War, Superstars, and a few others would be great to hear live, but he only stays with Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Man in the Wilderness, and Boat on the River [though this last one I can't complain about, it's one of my favorites of his]. I've heard Crystal Ball does get some play, but it's use should definitely be uped a bit.

They're either playing it safe for their younger fans, or are just playing THEIR favorites and ignoring the other ones. Either way they need to dust off some oldies and play those for a change.

I can see the quandary they are in. They feel the need to play the best-known songs in the catalog, but don't want to play the Dennis ballad hits. Where does that leave them? Playing the songs they are playing seems to be their only viable marketing choice in this lineup. They play an awful lot of shows where they are not the headliners now, and a lot of headline shows in soft ticket shows where the fans are not massive Styx fans, just casual fans, and those fans wouldn't know new songs or alternate album tracks. So they really are kinda stuck with what they're doing. Nobody from the band is ever going to say this in public, but I'd bet the band members - some of them, anyway - don't like it either. Like a lot of classic bands, they are trapped by their own past success. It's a weird position to be in.


I hope all is well.


Sterling

[brywool]

Personally, I think re-releases are lame with a capital L. Why soak the fans again for stuff they already have? If they want to remaster, I guess that's okay, but those greatest hits albums are stupid.

[Monker]

They know how to handle their back catalog - a second re-release of all the classic Journey albums from Infinity through to Frontiers - with additional bonus songs on each. For example, on Frontiers you get the original Frontiers plus the 2 songs (OTY and ATL) which were taken off for crap like Back Talk and Troubled Child. Ingenious.... I assume that these new releases, despite the new songs, count as sales totals for the original albums in their RIAA platinum status?

A&M should learn something from this. The Styx A&M catalog Equinox - Edge could be a goldmine if someone just updated the product and marketed it.

P.S. Did you know that Journey also re-released their Greatest Hits album and added WYLAW to it once that became a hit? Would A&M ever do that for Styx? Hell No!

P.S.S. Here is another missed opportunity. When RTP came out and did so well, an original song live should have been released as a single. Think what Fleetwood Mac did with The Dance - they released Landslide and it was huge - and it was a 25+ year old song at the time. Styx should have done the same thing with Boat On The River...

Styx does not have the unreleased stuff to fill PT, GI, CB, or even Kilroy...which Journey did have for their rereleases.

Comparing Edge to Frontiers is plain ignorant. A 6x platinum abum released at the peak of Journey's career, compared to a half-assed reunion album from a band struggling to make a 'comeback'....not in the same league...not worth doing.

[Rockwriter]

They know how to handle their back catalog - a second re-release of all the classic Journey albums from Infinity through to Frontiers - with additional bonus songs on each. For example, on Frontiers you get the original Frontiers plus the 2 songs (OTY and ATL) which were taken off for crap like Back Talk and Troubled Child. Ingenious.... I assume that these new releases, despite the new songs, count as sales totals for the original albums in their RIAA platinum status?

A&M should learn something from this. The Styx A&M catalog Equinox - Edge could be a goldmine if someone just updated the product and marketed it.

P.S. Did you know that Journey also re-released their Greatest Hits album and added WYLAW to it once that became a hit? Would A&M ever do that for Styx? Hell No!

P.S.S. Here is another missed opportunity. When RTP came out and did so well, an original song live should have been released as a single. Think what Fleetwood Mac did with The Dance - they released Landslide and it was huge - and it was a 25+ year old song at the time. Styx should have done the same thing with Boat On The River...

Styx does not have the unreleased stuff to fill PT, GI, CB, or even Kilroy...which Journey did have for their rereleases.

Comparing Edge to Frontiers is plain ignorant. A 6x platinum abum released at the peak of Journey's career, compared to a half-assed reunion album from a band struggling to make a 'comeback'....not in the same league...not worth doing.

True, Styx does not have the extra tracks for every album, though there are a few. But they have an amazing high quality live show from the GI period that would have been part of the GI repackage if it had been approved. I mean fantastic. As well as some demos and alternate takes of the same songs that could have been used. If I recall, there was a work tape of CSA with JY singing the last verse, and I think maybe a demo of "Chain Me Down" that got rejected, and some other work tapes. The live show alone would have been worth the re-master, and properly marketed, hell, that's the band's evergreen album, sure it would have sold. As far as PO8, I think from what I've heard there were some alternate versions, a ballad track from Dennis that got rejected, and a work tape of the entire album in studio form right before they laid the ground tracks, basically the whole band just blazing straight through the album, but live in the studio, with studio quality. So if what I've heard is right, there are alternate live tracks in the vault for every single album track. That would make an incredible package. And for Cornestone there was a live album recorded during that era that never got released. For PT they could go in and overdub and re-master and fix the show from Japanese TV and write great liner notes. There are certainly some marketing opportunities left in a catalog like that of Styx, which continues to receive exposure through radio, TV and movies all the time. There's just no one out there with the agenda to get it done. Too bad. I think a whole lot of fans would go for that. I agree, no more lame hits packages.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[StyxCollector]

True, Styx does not have the extra tracks for every album, though there are a few. But they have an amazing high quality live show from the GI period that would have been part of the GI repackage if it had been approved. I mean fantastic. As well as some demos and alternate takes of the same songs that could have been used. If I recall, there was a work tape of CSA with JY singing the last verse, and I think maybe a demo of "Chain Me Down" that got rejected, and some other work tapes. The live show alone would have been worth the re-master, and properly marketed, hell, that's the band's evergreen album, sure it would have sold. As far as PO8, I think from what I've heard there were some alternate versions, a ballad track from Dennis that got rejected, and a work tape of the entire album in studio form right before they laid the ground tracks, basically the whole band just blazing straight through the album, but live in the studio, with studio quality. So if what I've heard is right, there are alternate live tracks in the vault for every single album track. That would make an incredible package. And for Cornestone there was a live album recorded during that era that never got released. For PT they could go in and overdub and re-master and fix the show from Japanese TV and write great liner notes. There are certainly some marketing opportunities left in a catalog like that of Styx, which continues to receive exposure through radio, TV and movies all the time. There's just no one out there with the agenda to get it done. Too bad. I think a whole lot of fans would go for that. I agree, no more lame hits packages.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

'Tis true about the live album. There was a promo reel to reel of it on eBay many years ago. It's far from perfect and it would have had to have, er, a little bit of fixing in some spots, but it's a fantastic live album. It's been bootlegged in Japan. And yes, it's true that songs like "Chain Me Down" exist somewhere (have no idea where, though) and some demo stuff for albums going back to Equinox, but Styx has been one of those bands - like Rush - who do not have a lot of b-sides and have been very protective about releasing demos which could be considered "rough".

The Grand Illusion Deluxe Edition (when Universal was doing them) was announced and removed quicker than the blink of an eye. Whether it's TS/JY, or TS/JY/DDY who nixed it, it remains unclear who has say in the repackaging of the band. And in my interview with Bob Ludwig I did a few years ago, he said that the tapes are in good shape. Bill Levenson (the Uni archivist) before he retired basically said there's no interest in doing the Styx catalog - it wouldn't sell. Couple that with what Sterling said that the current band most likely doesn't want to remind people of what was. They have no embraced their past when they do not have to, which is a shame.

Those Japanese mini-LP SHM CDs may be the only reissued Styx product we see of the A&M catalog. Mine are on order with the promo Crystal Ball box.

There's also enough archival video out there (pro shot) from 79 - 81 that would make fans happy, but it'll never see the light of day. Most, but not all of it, is circulated.

[styxfansite]

Two things I would not mind seeing but as you put it will never see the light of day is the DEMO for Edge 2 and also the Demo of TW4 that the original "Best Thing" was on.

[StyxCollector]

A few of Son of Edge/Edge 2's tracks have been redone (see: "While There's Still Time"; the one on the A&M sampler as well as the final on BNW are basically the SoE version minus Glen vox + TS vox). I think there's much more of a mythic quality than what it really is/was if it ever was released undoctored. This is not unlike the "unreleased" DY stuff which showed up elsewhere (such as "Yes I Can"). There's a bit more hype than the output if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong: I'd love to hear it, but I think people have an idea this stuff is more than it is.

[LtVanish]

I am suprised when Caught in the Act was released on DVD that it didnt include the cd version remastered, that would of been a good package idea.

[Blue Falcon]

I'm not buying the argument that there isn't a market for Styx's back catalog, or that it's too expensive to undertake the remaster project. That's pure BS. When you consider that someone thought that there was some interest in A Flock Of Seagulls back catalog proves the point...all of their stuff has been remastered, with bonus tracks, and re-released.

Same thing with bands like Killing Joke, Budgie, UFO, Judas Priest, Triumph, Motorhead, and Jethro Tull. Does anyone honestly believe that the record labels for these bands would undertake such a process if they didn't think there was some potential to make some $$$ out of it? None of those bands sold as many records as Styx.

There IS a market for it. It's likely that JY keeps nixing this stuff because he doesn't want to spend time in the same room with DDY fighting over how to do it. Of course, their record company could just decide on their own.

Styx is the only band that I know of that actively tries to cover up its own multi-platinum past. Billy Squier tried the same thing...and look where he is now! (He's planting flowers and cleaning up gardens in Central Park, by the way, since he has refused to play any of his 80s hits in concerts for years, and then wonders where his fans went.)

[shaka]

Geez, at least get the context right. Billy Squire is a volunteer. He doesn't do it because of money he does it because of his interest in conservation.

[Jodes]

Falcon, from what I've heard they wanted to do a remastering job on the cds in the mid 90s WHEN DENNIS WAS STILL IN THE BAND, but A&M rejected it.

Sterling or Allan, when was A&M thinking of it? Pre or Post Dennis leaving?

[StyxCollector]

Falcon, from what I've heard they wanted to do a remastering job on the cds in the mid 90s WHEN DENNIS WAS STILL IN THE BAND, but A&M rejected it.

Sterling or Allan, when was A&M thinking of it? Pre or Post Dennis leaving?

It's not in front of me, but I'm 99% sure the remasters were announced in the press release for the Greatest Hits album in 1995 - it was supposed to kick it all off. Then everything went dark. The GI Deluxe Edition came and went, and hints at other remasters (they were annouced in Europe and then taken away) over the years surfaced.

I've heard from both Uni/A&M and people involved with the band and there truly is no interest from the US record label to get this done.

Whether that's because of band politics (but at this point, I'm not sure what, if any, say DDY has in re-releases), or a desire to bury the past, it is what it is.

And at this point, it would be diminishing returns. The time to capitalize on remasters was 10+ years ago. Now with the physical formats dying a slow death, that time has past.

If you want remasters (of all but PT and Cornerstone), get the new Japanese mini-LP releases.