Today Just Went From A HIgh of Highs to a Low of Lows

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Postby foolintherain » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:43 pm

bugsymalone wrote:
StyxCollector wrote:EDIT: And for the record, DDY hasn't lost shit on his keyboard playing. What was spouted above wasn't true in 1997 nor is it true today. I have seen him during soundchecks, live, you name it ... and you'll hear in my interview when I transacribe it he talks about playing live.


The spoutee is, and has been, a troll here before. No feeding rules should apply.


Bugsy


don't call me a troll, this is a forum for discussion about Styx and Styx accessories. What I have presented is a fact about Styx, nothing trollish about that.
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Postby sadie65 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:50 pm

foolintherain wrote:
bugsymalone wrote:
StyxCollector wrote:EDIT: And for the record, DDY hasn't lost shit on his keyboard playing. What was spouted above wasn't true in 1997 nor is it true today. I have seen him during soundchecks, live, you name it ... and you'll hear in my interview when I transacribe it he talks about playing live.


The spoutee is, and has been, a troll here before. No feeding rules should apply.


Bugsy


don't call me a troll, this is a forum for discussion about Styx and Styx accessories. What I have presented is a fact about Styx, nothing trollish about that.


You may have knowledge of this occurring, however you've presented nothing more than statements to support "fact". Regardless of said fact, it's a non-issue.

Is there something in the interview mentioned other than this that you would like to add to the discussion? And, no, I am not being facetious here.
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Postby BlackWall » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:07 pm

Thanks for the new info, Styx Collector. I'm glad you were able to get a second interview.

I totally agree with Dennis on several of the points.. "Show Me The Way" should have been the first single from "EOTC", and "High Time" was not a great choice for the third single from "KWH". I definitely think "Haven't We Been Here Before" would have worked better; hell, maybe it should have been released before, or instead of "Don't Let It End".

To add my own input, I think if Tommy decided he didn't want "HWBHB" issued- rather than "High Time", "Double Life" would have been a good choice. Maybe they could have done a double A-sided single kinda deal with "Double Life" and "High Time", and let radio stations decide which one to play. It would have been risky at that point in the game to put out a J.Y. lead song by itself, but I truly think "DL" could have been his crossover into the commercial aspect of Styx and the music scene.
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Postby ItsMyLife » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:22 pm

Yea, LITR was a very bad decision to release as a comeback vehicle for Styx. It didn't sound anything like the Styx everybody remembered... it actually sounded like a bad hair metalish pop tune with the group "hey" background vocals when I first heard it. I've never grown to like it... just doesn't feel like Styx on any level to me.

With Tommy not in the band, it really should have been a Dennis tune. It's amazing that SMTW did as good as it did considering the huge misstep right out of the gate.

I'm not a fan of releasing a ballad as the first track off an album though... that album could have used a bonified Dennis rocker as the lead single, but it didn't really have a single calibre one.
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Postby StyxCollector » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:12 pm

KWH17 wrote:What I found really interesting was the comment about nothing stopping the releases of remasters and re-issues, and his views on the split of the fanbase [which I hope is described in more detail.] That and DDY complimenting Tommy, and his contributions. In Sterlings book Tommy seemed complimentary of DDY in one of his interview segments, which kinda raises the hope for a reunion [I know, the dead horse again, but a man can dream]. :lol:


I readdressed the reissues in a different way in the second interview and I think today's answer/comments are better than yesterday. Same essential core answer, but we got more into back catalog rather than remasters/reissues.

But I didn't readdress a lot of the fanbase stuff. I'll be honest, I just think it's a rat's nest to begin with and what was said yesterday was great, but we addressed it today in the interview in different ways and I believe a bit better. I'll leave it at that. Will everyone like his answers? Don't know. He is certainly appreciative of the fanbase; I can assure you of that.

I mean, no joke, I got an e-mail from Tim and within the hour I was interviewing Dennis the first time. Having the fiasco and actually having the prior interview made this second one a bit more focused and easier to do (and I talked to him about things I forgot with no prep like the recent tour of Germany). Same sort of thing happened today - Tim e-mailed me and within the hour, Dennis and I were on the phone. SOmetimes it just happens like that.
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Postby StyxCollector » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:16 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:By the way, when are you going to update your StyxCollector site?? I hope you'll add more information soon!! :)


I'm going to use this interview to relaunch it ... I know it's been, uh, dormant for awhile but between two books (the one that came out in 07 and the one I'm working on now), work, speaking at conferences, moving, etc., it doesn't leave a lot of time to work on the website, and I wanted to use something good to relaunch.

Nothing better than a multi-part DDY interview! :) And I'll post some pics/info on the Japanese mini-LP sleeve issues.

Plus, with moving I'm centralizing my collection so I can finally catalog it.
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Postby bugsymalone » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:05 pm

StyxCollector wrote:
SuiteMadameBlue wrote:By the way, when are you going to update your StyxCollector site?? I hope you'll add more information soon!! :)


I'm going to use this interview to relaunch it ... I know it's been, uh, dormant for awhile but between two books (the one that came out in 07 and the one I'm working on now), work, speaking at conferences, moving, etc., it doesn't leave a lot of time to work on the website, and I wanted to use something good to relaunch.

Nothing better than a multi-part DDY interview! :) And I'll post some pics/info on the Japanese mini-LP sleeve issues.

Plus, with moving I'm centralizing my collection so I can finally catalog it.


Cool! :)


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Postby froy » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:34 pm

foolintherain wrote:
bugsymalone wrote:
StyxCollector wrote:EDIT: And for the record, DDY hasn't lost shit on his keyboard playing. What was spouted above wasn't true in 1997 nor is it true today. I have seen him during soundchecks, live, you name it ... and you'll hear in my interview when I transacribe it he talks about playing live.


The spoutee is, and has been, a troll here before. No feeding rules should apply.


Bugsy


don't call me a troll, this is a forum for discussion about Styx and Styx accessories. What I have presented is a fact about Styx, nothing trollish about that.


You presented some shit song Gowan sang you troll.
Go away..
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Postby chowhall » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:01 am

froy wrote:
foolintherain wrote:
bugsymalone wrote:
StyxCollector wrote:EDIT: And for the record, DDY hasn't lost shit on his keyboard playing. What was spouted above wasn't true in 1997 nor is it true today. I have seen him during soundchecks, live, you name it ... and you'll hear in my interview when I transacribe it he talks about playing live.


The spoutee is, and has been, a troll here before. No feeding rules should apply.


Bugsy


don't call me a troll, this is a forum for discussion about Styx and Styx accessories. What I have presented is a fact about Styx, nothing trollish about that.


You presented some shit song Gowan sang you troll.
Go away..


You calling someone a troll is rich.
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Postby blt man » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:15 am

StyxCollector wrote: Having the fiasco and actually having the prior interview made this second one a bit more focused and easier to do (and I talked to him about things I forgot with no prep like the recent tour of Germany). Same sort of thing happened today - Tim e-mailed me and within the hour, Dennis and I were on the phone. SOmetimes it just happens like that.


Not to have you disclose the interview in a forum thread, but did he say anything interesting about how it came to be that he played BOTR?
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Postby foolintherain » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:43 am

froy wrote:
foolintherain wrote:
bugsymalone wrote:
StyxCollector wrote:EDIT: And for the record, DDY hasn't lost shit on his keyboard playing. What was spouted above wasn't true in 1997 nor is it true today. I have seen him during soundchecks, live, you name it ... and you'll hear in my interview when I transacribe it he talks about playing live.


The spoutee is, and has been, a troll here before. No feeding rules should apply.


Bugsy


don't call me a troll, this is a forum for discussion about Styx and Styx accessories. What I have presented is a fact about Styx, nothing trollish about that.


You presented some shit song Gowan sang you troll.
Go away..


Froy, the only reason you don't like that song is because Gowan replaced your boyhood fantasy in Styx.
If that had have been Dennis all you would do is say what a great song it is. Just get over it,Styx is great with Gowan and Dennis does his own thing that he likes so it all works out.
Go listen to John Denver.
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Postby AnnieOprah » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:45 am

StyxCollector wrote:
sadie65 wrote:Very happy that Dennis understood and you got another interview. Thanks for sharing what you could of the first one. Looking forward to whatever you can of this one.


People can say what they want about Dennis, but the man gave me five hours of time over the past two days. He could have told me to fuck off especially after yesterday. This was a very relaxed, conversational interview.

I think this is the first time Dennis has really opened up about Styx in a very meaningful way (not just some journalist asking him why he's not in Styx or about Roboto) since, well, I can remember. For whatever reason he was willing to answer my questions (which I think some people will be surprised at some of the answers) and he didn't skirt around anything. There was only one thing he wouldn't answer and that was in regards to the upcoming Disney thing which I respect since I'm sure he can't say much right now.

Dennis has always been gracious towards me and I don't think badly of him. I feel the same about Tommy who I encountered once or twice as well. Both are very introspective guys.

So publicly, I say thank you to both Dennis DeYoung and Tim Orchard for making it happen.


I think that needs to be emphasized to the Dennis haters out there - the guy gave StyxCollector 5 hours!! That is absolutely incredible. He is the opposite of what many haters like to spew.
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Postby AnnieOprah » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:46 am

blt man wrote:
StyxCollector wrote: Having the fiasco and actually having the prior interview made this second one a bit more focused and easier to do (and I talked to him about things I forgot with no prep like the recent tour of Germany). Same sort of thing happened today - Tim e-mailed me and within the hour, Dennis and I were on the phone. SOmetimes it just happens like that.


Not to have you disclose the interview in a forum thread, but did he say anything interesting about how it came to be that he played BOTR?


Did he say what the first single was going to be off 100 Years From Now? (US version)
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Postby AnnieOprah » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:51 am

StyxCollector wrote:So here are some highlights from memory ... and trust me when I say I am close to tears. After that interview to have nothing I am flabbergasted.

1. The acoustic thing is DDY on piano, Glen on guitar, and someone TBD. Jimmy has another commitment. They haven't worked out a set list. They may do some Beatles stuff. He mentioned six dates at the moment (no other dates) and that NYC wouldn't have been his first place as it adds some pressure. He has no plans to record or release the shows a la the Music of Styx 2 CD set. He said that he went back and watched the Unplugged mini-set they did for VH-1 and thought it was great.

2. One Hundred Years (the US release) has songs that are remixed from the original Canadian release (about 4 or 5). Rain was one.

3. He validated that there are a few Styx demos out there, namely Chain Me Down (recorded but not put on GI) and Lighthouse (originally written but not recorded for Po8).

4. He said JY did NOT sing on any version - demo or otherwise - of CSA.

5. He was VERY complimentary to Tommy. In fact, he even said that TS wrote better songs for CB, hence his song getting the album title. He said CB and Mademoiselle are the two best songs on there. He knew that TS would put Styx over the top.

6. He talked about the WN years and how there's very little of it he feels is any good. Off the top of my head: Lady, Best Thing, Young Man, Father OSA, and he said Christopher, Mr. Christopher is a good song but a bad recording. He said Styx II is the only album worth owning from that era.

7. The main reason he doesn't play keys is that a) for this band, he feels he needs to be front and center and b) with all the variables in sound, and he's never on a proper tour, so he flies in and does a show. He can't easily just schlep a real piano and the Oberheim. He really loves that old synth stuff, but it's just not in the cards.

8. We talked quite a bit about some stuff around potential mistakes and such. DDY said A&M wanted to release SMTW as the first single from EOTC, but he said no and wanted to put Glen's song out (LITR) first. But he said in hindsight it was a mistake. Similar things were said about KWH (he would have never released High Time as a single and he wrote it ... he wanted Haven't We Been Here Before as a single but TS hated the video, etc. - so that's why High Time was released). First Time came up again.

9. DDY said JY did not play or sing on Babe OR BOTR.

10. He flat out said that no one is blocking any formal remasters or reissues.

11. Basically, he understands that the die hards want to hear other tunes, but most people are there for nostalgia and quite frankly, doing the lesser known tunes isn't getting him through the door. That's what things like the Lost Treasures show are for.

12. Rubicon may eventually make the live set. It was actually the original title for the album and artwork was even made up.

13. He said that not having a second guitarist earlier for the rock act was a mistake. The reason there wasn't one was that the initial shows were all orchestral, so two guitars would have been too much, but for the live rock act, it would have been better with two from the get go. It had nothing to do with copying Styx (but he basically said who better to do the songs like Styx than him).

14. He said multiple times he didn't have confidence in some things which ultimately turned out well (an example is the live album from a few years back).

15. Besides Babe and First Time, he said BOTR should have been the third single from Cornerstone.

16. We talked about the writing process and he feels he writes better alone. Everyone brought their individual playing to parts, but the final say on any tune was the guy who wrote it. We talked a bit about collaboration and how some Styx songhs - such as Renegade - were brought in as acoustic harmony numbers, DDY made some suggestions to Tommy, and you got the rocker you have today. Same with Crystal Ball. If you heard the leak of the old HArvest track a few years ago, you'll know it was all three part harmony. DDY suggested the chorus and that TS sing the verses alone, and it's the song we know and love today.

17. Told me an interesting story about the UK and Cornerstone. When Styx did the mini-tour of the UK/Europe in '78 they were panned. Punk was in, etc., and Dire Straits opened for them. Styx was doing its thing (i.e. the GI/Po8 sound) but he knew from that trip that they had to come back and change direction or they wouldn't survive. Hence, you have Cornerstone.

18. He doesn't understand why the fans are still split at this point (I'm paraphrasing). We talked a lot about fans and perceptions, etc.

19. He said "All For Love" was in consideration to be recorded for One Hundred Years (the US release) but ultimately didn't make it and there were better songs.

20. We talked about the Oscars thing - he said he nearly fell out of his seat.

That's all for now ... if I remember anything else, I'll post.


Interesting the compliments toward Tommy - doesn't sound as the blood is nearly as bad between TS and DDY as it is JY and DDY....and given that JY did not even PERFORM on Styx's biggest hit in the US or Europe, never had a hit single, and is an inferior guitarist to TS, how was he able to wrangle so much power?

Put it this way....what does better - a Styx with JY and TS or a Styx with DDY and TS - you get the two main vocalists back...what does that do for tour and album options?
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Postby KWH17 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:03 am

AnnieOprah wrote:
Interesting the compliments toward Tommy - doesn't sound as the blood is nearly as bad between TS and DDY as it is JY and DDY....and given that JY did not even PERFORM on Styx's biggest hit in the US or Europe, never had a hit single, and is an inferior guitarist to TS, how was he able to wrangle so much power?

Put it this way....what does better - a Styx with JY and TS or a Styx with DDY and TS - you get the two main vocalists back...what does that do for tour and album options?


I have no idea how he got his power. Since they were both against DDY's demands I guess that kind of put them on equal ground, and there a few other speculations I could put forward about it, but then again they are just speculations so they're not really relevant.

But I agree that Styx would do better if it was DDY and TS, not TS and JY, but then again I think they would do just as well if they were all back together, but unfortunately if one of them [and you know who I mean] stays then the other will not be in.
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Postby brywool » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:34 am

ItsMyLife wrote:Yea, LITR was a very bad decision to release as a comeback vehicle for Styx. It didn't sound anything like the Styx everybody remembered... it actually sounded like a bad hair metalish pop tune with the group "hey" background vocals when I first heard it. I've never grown to like it... just doesn't feel like Styx on any level to me.

With Tommy not in the band, it really should have been a Dennis tune. It's amazing that SMTW did as good as it did considering the huge misstep right out of the gate.

I'm not a fan of releasing a ballad as the first track off an album though... that album could have used a bonified Dennis rocker as the lead single, but it didn't really have a single calibre one.


I disagree. LITR was a great ROCK song with a funk edge. Think of the time that it came out. That's what was big then. The title track would've also rocked. I think the fact that it didn't sound like what Styx normally did was probably why that was the desired single track.
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Postby StyxCollector » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:08 am

blt man wrote:Not to have you disclose the interview in a forum thread, but did he say anything interesting about how it came to be that he played BOTR?


Ayup. That came up.
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Postby StyxCollector » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:09 am

AnnieOprah wrote:Did he say what the first single was going to be off 100 Years From Now? (US version)


Didn't ask that to be honest.
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Postby ItsMyLife » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:36 am

brywool wrote:LITR was a great ROCK song with a funk edge.


Millions of fans disagree.

brywool wrote: I think the fact that it didn't sound like what Styx normally did was probably why that was the desired single track.


And ultimately what doomed it as a single and hurt EOTC.

I see nothing genius in ignoring a strong track record of success and a brand and attempting to sound like everybody else at the time.

They are STYX... the needed to sound like STYX!! Dennis' signature voice... yes signature... need to be out front.

Terrible decision.
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Postby blt man » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:40 am

StyxCollector wrote:
blt man wrote:Not to have you disclose the interview in a forum thread, but did he say anything interesting about how it came to be that he played BOTR?


Ayup. That came up.


End of March you say?
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Postby brywool » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:07 am

Is it the end of March yet? Hurry up!
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Postby weatherman90 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:36 am

StyxCollector wrote:
sadie65 wrote:Very happy that Dennis understood and you got another interview. Thanks for sharing what you could of the first one. Looking forward to whatever you can of this one.


People can say what they want about Dennis, but the man gave me five hours of time over the past two days. He could have told me to fuck off especially after yesterday. This was a very relaxed, conversational interview.

I think this is the first time Dennis has really opened up about Styx in a very meaningful way (not just some journalist asking him why he's not in Styx or about Roboto) since, well, I can remember. For whatever reason he was willing to answer my questions (which I think some people will be surprised at some of the answers) and he didn't skirt around anything. There was only one thing he wouldn't answer and that was in regards to the upcoming Disney thing which I respect since I'm sure he can't say much right now.

Dennis has always been gracious towards me and I don't think badly of him. I feel the same about Tommy who I encountered once or twice as well. Both are very introspective guys.

So publicly, I say thank you to both Dennis DeYoung and Tim Orchard for making it happen.


Great to hear that he was willing to help you out, what a nice guy
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Postby Ehwmatt » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:53 am

Sounds like a great interview. I just wish they could all play together again. Shit, if there's room for a keyboardist in DDY's band, keep Gowan and let DDY come back on and serve the same role he does in his own band. Everyone's happy there, no one's feelings get hurt. Their harmonies would be great too.

If JY wants to be a cocksucker, then bring Tommy in from Dennis's band and give JY his walking papers. Tommy's a great and very understated and underrated player. I like watching JY and Tommy play guitar together on stage, but he's definitely not vital to the Styx sound.
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Postby BlackWall » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:18 pm

Going back to the whole "Show Me The Way" instead of "LITR" as the first single from "EOTC" thing- I've been thinking, and had that been the case, would "Show Me The Way" still have become the hit that it was? Remember, "SMTW" became a smash due to the connection to Desert Storm; had it been released first, and without the connection to the war in the Gulf, how would it have done? Chances are, that being the first single, and having DDY's vox, it still probably would have been a hit, but it's something to think about.

As I've said though, I do think it was a mistake to not put something out that sounded like "Styx".. I mean, that's what all the fans had been waiting for for six years. "LITR" to me sounds like a band trying to be hip.. exactly what it was. It just seems kind of hollow, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that I dislike the song. It might interest some here to know that it did fare pretty well on the rock charts.
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Postby shaka » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:32 pm

I'm looking forward to the interview. Congrats on getting it.

I was in Durban South Africa sitting in the Milky Lane on the beachfront when a video channel on the tv started playing a song that caught my attention. I looked up, saw Glen singing and thougt it was someone else. Then I looked back up and saw the rest of the band and freaked out. The song? LITR.

I actually think LITR is a very good tune.
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Postby hoagiepete » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:37 am

I'm happy for you, but Dennis doing the interview twice is nothing short of remarkable. I can't imagine too many people would do that. He must be a nice guy.

I also am impressed with your ability to pick up the phone and ask him to do it again. Not sure I could have done that.
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Postby brywool » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:04 am

Ehwmatt wrote:I like watching JY and Tommy play guitar together on stage, but he's definitely not vital to the Styx sound.


Actually, JY's harmony vocal IS a very important part of the Styx sound. Listen to his horrible solo albums. The harmonies sound VERY much like Styx.
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Postby Jodes » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:13 am

Styx wouldn't have been signed by Wooden Nickel label if it wasn't for JY's playing back in the day.. Face it, he is an important part in Styx.
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Postby Blue Falcon » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:19 am

KWH17 wrote:
I have no idea how he got his power. Since they were both against DDY's demands I guess that kind of put them on equal ground, and there a few other speculations I could put forward about it, but then again they are just speculations so they're not really relevant.



I'll take a stab at this. JY was there from the very beginning of the band. I believe it was HIS band for a while, and DDY joined later. Obviously as time went on it became apparent that most of their success was due to DDY and later TS...so his contribution to the band's success was getting smaller, and he started getting understandably bitter.

Combine that with a very combative and vindictive personality (and that's not just my opinion, many others have said this too) and you have a guy who's approaching 60 who is trying to make it look like HE was the driving force behind the band all those years. I have never seen a band take such a figurative dump on their own legacy like Styx has since JY became the alpha male.

20. We talked about the Oscars thing - he said he nearly fell out of his seat.


I'm sure JY did too, although for entirely different reasons. :wink:
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Postby Jodes » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:40 am

Blue Falcon wrote:
KWH17 wrote:
I have no idea how he got his power. Since they were both against DDY's demands I guess that kind of put them on equal ground, and there a few other speculations I could put forward about it, but then again they are just speculations so they're not really relevant.



I'll take a stab at this. JY was there from the very beginning of the band. I believe it was HIS band for a while, and DDY joined later. Obviously as time went on it became apparent that most of their success was due to DDY and later TS...so his contribution to the band's success was getting smaller, and he started getting understandably bitter.


[quote]

For someone that supposedly knows Styx, you sure don't know how they formed!

No JY wasn't there at the beginning.. Styx was formed by Dennis, Chuck, John and another fellow named Tom Nardini came after the original trio.. they formed Tradewinds. Then JC joined, and JY was the final piece of the puzzle in early 1970.
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