New interview with Dennis at ddytalk.com

[Rockwriter]

This was posted to my Styxbook group today, so I thought I'd pass it along here. The audio of this interview is actually pretty interesting.

Sterling


Ex-Styx Singer Talks About “First Time”

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
February 20, 2009


Former Styx vocalist Dennis DeYoung hasn't played with the multi-platinum rock group he co-founded as a teenager in more than ten years, but he still makes his living mostly from playing his old Styx hits. DeYoung performs his classic hits like “Lady”, “Come Sail Away”, “Mr. Roboto”, “The Best of Times” and “Show Me The Way” in concert to appreciative audiences, but there's one song that the rocker looks back on as the one that got away. In 1979, at the peak of Styx' success, DeYoung's ballad “Babe” scored the group its only #1 hit, but instead of following up with another DeYoung ballad, “First Time”, Styx instead chose a different direction, and “First Time” was never released. DeYoung has performed the song very rarely since. In an exclusive interview with Ron Stevens of www.ddytalk.com, DeYoung recently lamented what might have been.

“When it comes to that particular song, that was a terrible mistake,” the singer maintains. “Here’s my theory: If 'First Time' had been released, it would have been absolutely, unquestionably, a top 3 single. Which meant at that time that Cornerstone would have sold another 4 to 500,000 albums, ‘cause we were the biggest band in America. And Cornerstone might have sold 4 million copies—or more. That’s how not releasing that turned the tables on that record.”

Since 1999 Dennis DeYoung has carved out a solo career performing the music he created with Styx in concert, as well as releasing new albums. His latest album 100 Years From Now was a hit in Canada; its title song reached #1 in Quebec, and DeYoung is cautiously optimistic about its chances in the US. “You know, I’m just happy that I have a record company that is going to release the record and give me some visibility, and allow me the opportunity to be heard by somebody,” he says. “But beyond that I think you can’t really have expectations anymore in the current culture of radio and TV. It’s not really geared for people who are over 60 years old, to say the least. It’s not even geared for people over 40.”

Rounder Records will release 100 Years From Now on April 14th. The US release contains two additional tracks, “Private Jones” and “There Was A Time”. Read the entire Dennis DeYoung interview or listen to the audio file at www.ddytalk.com






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[StyxCollector]

I'm still hoping for a new interview one of these eons

[froy]

I'm still hoping for a new interview one of these eons

Download the entire audio interview
Down to earth good stuff

[StyxCollector]

I'm still hoping for a new interview one of these eons

Download the entire audio interview
Down to earth good stuff

I read it. My questions are not even on that list, but thanks.

[Toph]

I'm still hoping for a new interview one of these eons

Download the entire audio interview
Down to earth good stuff

I read it. My questions are not even on that list, but thanks.

Interesting the take on how not releasing First Time did major damage to Cornerstone and how it also affected Boat On The River. Interesting had that happened, Cornerstone would have been #1 seller. But if "ifs and buts were candy and nuts"

Wonder what his thoughts are on LITR doing the same thing to Edge.

[brywool]

Good interview. I still don't see Dennis' First Time argument. While it might've sold records, the remaining Styx ROCK fans would've turned on the band and then the albums following it would've been even more ballad-heavy.

I just think FT is such a weak song.

[Toph]

Good interview. I still don't see Dennis' First Time argument. While it might've sold records, the remaining Styx ROCK fans would've turned on the band and then the albums following it would've been even more ballad-heavy.

I just think FT is such a weak song.

I have to disagree with you on that one. For all their complaining on how Dennis hurt the band, Tommy and JY are quite the hypocrites. Why would you ever not release a guaranteed top 3 single? That is just stupid and it costs them hundreds of thousands of album sales! Why Me was a terrible release for that record. Lights, Boat, First Time, Borrowed Time, heck even Never Say Never were better singles than Why Me. It killed all the momentum that Cornerstone had. A really stupid move on Styx's part IMO. And don't give me the "rock cred" argument - that is bogus. A year later Journey released 4 softer songs off their Escape album as singles....that worked out terribly, didn't it....

[BlackWall]

I still say..

"Borrowed Time"
"Babe"
"First Time"
"Lights"

These should have been the singles; in this order. I don't personally think "First Time" is a great song, but it would have been a hit, most likely top 10(at the least), and "Lights" probably would have done decently(at least top 40) as the follow up.

"Borrowed Time" should have been the lead.. After singles like "Renegade" and "Blue Collar Man" on "Pieces Of Eight", "Cornerstone" should have been started with a rocker. It most likely would have at least gone top 20 or 25, and that would have been a guarantee of (at least) three hit singles on one album.

[Rockwriter]

I still say..

"Borrowed Time"
"Babe"
"First Time"
"Lights"

These should have been the singles; in this order. I don't personally think "First Time" is a great song, but it would have been a hit, most likely top 10(at the least), and "Lights" probably would have done decently(at least top 40) as the follow up.

"Borrowed Time" should have been the lead.. After singles like "Renegade" and "Blue Collar Man" on "Pieces Of Eight", "Cornerstone" should have been started with a rocker. It most likely would have at least gone top 20 or 25, and that would have been a guarantee of (at least) three hit singles on one album.

You know what, I think mostly we tend to overlook why "Why Me" and "Borrowed Time" were not the hits they could have been. It had nothing to do with them musically. It had everything to do with the fact that they were released into the void during the period when Dennis had been ousted and before, or right when he he was returning. In releasing a single you drum up support town by town by going out and playing live shows, which then give the local radio stations a reason to spin the song even more (because you're coming and they can build giveaways around it and such), and then when you actually come to town you do the interviews with the stations, the in-stores, the local press, and all of it just drives more hype, which drives more requests, which drives more airplay, which drives more sales. That's what happened with "Babe" and it worked perfectly . . . BUT the band was out working its ass off at the time. With the other two singles, during that period Dennis was out of the band and the band was doing no touring at all. No reason for radio to get too excited, was there? Why play a song from a band who's not coming? What's in it for the station? So, all of that great momentum shot to hell. As it always is with this particular band, the group was poised to take the next step, and instead shot itself in the foot. Bizarre.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[brywool]

Good interview. I still don't see Dennis' First Time argument. While it might've sold records, the remaining Styx ROCK fans would've turned on the band and then the albums following it would've been even more ballad-heavy.

I just think FT is such a weak song.

I have to disagree with you on that one. For all their complaining on how Dennis hurt the band, Tommy and JY are quite the hypocrites. Why would you ever not release a guaranteed top 3 single? That is just stupid and it costs them hundreds of thousands of album sales! Why Me was a terrible release for that record. Lights, Boat, First Time, Borrowed Time, heck even Never Say Never were better singles than Why Me. It killed all the momentum that Cornerstone had. A really stupid move on Styx's part IMO. And don't give me the "rock cred" argument - that is bogus. A year later Journey released 4 softer songs off their Escape album as singles....that worked out terribly, didn't it....

I think Why Me was a better choice than First Time. It didn't seem like it was heavily promoted.

[LordofDaRing]

Very poor business decision not to release First Time. I like Boat, I am not sure it was strong enough as a single. Borrowed Time might have been the one in my mind that would have been a great follow up to First Time.

[brywool]

Very poor business decision not to release First Time. I like Boat, I am not sure it was strong enough as a single. Borrowed Time might have been the one in my mind that would have been a great follow up to First Time.

a lot stronger than First Time which sounds like it was written by a 14 year old. I could not BELIEVE DeYoung wrote that.

[froy]

Very poor business decision not to release First Time. I like Boat, I am not sure it was strong enough as a single. Borrowed Time might have been the one in my mind that would have been a great follow up to First Time.

a lot stronger than First Time which sounds like it was written by a 14 year old. I could not BELIEVE DeYoung wrote that.

can you believe Genesis wrote Hold On My Heart?
same thing

[KWH17]

Every band/artist has one or two love songs that pale in comparison to whatever else they've written.

I don't really mind First Time, but to me it just doesn't stack up to Babe, or even While There's Still Time. I also preferred Tommy's Never Say Never, which I believe would have been a better choice for a follow up single to Babe since ,imo, it stands up better musically and lyrically to First Time.

[LordofDaRing]

Yeah but the 14 year old audiance it very marketable...

Besides if Dennis was singing good girls don't but I do, I don't think anyone would take him serious..."and its a teenage sadness that everyone has got to taste, when she's sitting on your face (and it hurts)".. I like that sound better than my sharona..

[brywool]

Yeah but the 14 year old audiance it very marketable...

Besides if Dennis was singing good girls don't but I do, I don't think anyone would take him serious..."and its a teenage sadness that everyone has got to taste, when she's sitting on your face (and it hurts)".. I like that sound better than my sharona..

This is true, but think about it:

Did Zepplin have number 1 hits? No.
Are they respected in Rock Music? Definitely, and moreso than Styx ever will be. Was it because they had tons of 16 Magazine Covers and were number 1 on Casey Cassum's American Top 40 or won People's Choice Awards? No.
I really think that sales do not necessarily equate with respectability. I would rather have the latter, especially for Styx as they were/are a great ROCK band.

I've said this a bazillion times that number 1 records do not make a career unless you have tons of them. MOST number 1 records out there go away and you never hear from the artist again. I guess I would've rather seen Styx take Journey's route and build an album career rather than go for the '14 year old audience'. Granted, they've (fortunately) done this, but to me First Time was a step into "You Light up my Life" territory. Seems to me that in Dennis' article there, the reason for First Time to be a single was to grab more cash. I guess that's okay as music is a business, but I'm glad they didn't release it as a single.

If Dennis loves it so much and has that much faith in it, WHY did he not play it live with Styx ever? Okay, maybe Styx wouldn't do it. Did he ever play it on his solo tours? I haven't seen it on any of his solo set lists (though I may have missed it). Did you ever hear it on the FM radio (unless it was in a Styx special)? NO. I NEVER heard it on the radio. Back then, if a station liked a particular song, they'd have played it and MADE the band release it as a single, or created the hit (case in point "LADY"). That never happened with First Time. In fact, I remember Seattle Dj's ridiculing it, and rightly so. If it is such a great song, why is he not playing it to death in his own shows? Hell, why not re-record it, release it and turn it into the hit that he thinks it is.

There was an article written by Journey's manager about how the band TARGETED being an album band rather than a singles band and it was totally the right move for them. He made some good points about having a flash in the pan career or making a career for the long haul.

In truth, the song is embarrassingly bad for a writer of Dennis' stature and canon. I can't believe he's not embarrassed by that, but IS embarrassed by some of his Wooden Nickel stuff, which, for the most part, was good stuff and infinitely better then First F'n Time.

Dennis, if First Time is so great, re-release it and gain the respect that you so feel you lost by not releasing it back in 79. Obviously, in your opinon, not enough folks have heard it.

Why not do it now and have a top 3 hit?

[StyxCollector]

Did he ever play it on his solo tours? I haven't seen it on any of his solo set lists (though I may have missed it). Did you ever hear it on the FM radio (unless it was in a Styx special)? NO. I NEVER heard it on the radio. Back then, if a station liked a particular song, they'd have played it and MADE the band release it as a single, or created the hit (case in point "LADY"). That never happened with First Time. In fact, I remember Seattle Dj's ridiculing it, and rightly so. If it is such a great song, why is he not playing it to death in his own shows? Hell, why not re-record it, release it and turn it into the hit that he thinks it is.

He did play it a few times live in the past few years. I didn't catch it, but it was played.

And it not getting bigger had everything to do with no push from the label due to Tommy's threat. What DDY said is consistent between the DDYTalk interview and mine.

In truth, the song is embarrassingly bad for a writer of Dennis' stature and canon. I can't believe he's not embarrassed by that, but IS embarrassed by some of his Wooden Nickel stuff, which, for the most part, was good stuff and infinitely better then First F'n Time.

Now, now. You'll upset monker stating opinon as fact without qualifying it as such

[brywool]

He did play it a few times live in the past few years. I didn't catch it, but it was played.

And it not getting bigger had everything to do with no push from the label due to Tommy's threat. What DDY said is consistent between the DDYTalk interview and mine.

I think you mean "not getting it released as a single" rather than not getting played. I was a huge styx fan back then, as now, and I don't remember ANY station playing it OTHER than to make fun of it. They DID play the crap out of Rockin' the Paradise and didn't play anything off of Kilroy but (oh god!) Double Life. Don't Let it End also got airplay, but on the more AM types of FM stations.

Again, if Dennis has so much faith in it, he needs to release it as a Dennis DeYoung single and ride it all the way to the top of the charts. I mean, a number 1 song is a number song.

Go Dennis!

[LordofDaRing]

I swear I heard it played a lot on the radio when i was growing up in Lousiana during my High School years. I have mentioned many times in this forum about what a great make out song it was in the car, and I wasn't lying. Why he does not perform it live now, not sure, maybe just can't fit it in. Since it was not a single only true fans of the band are even aware of that tune. I know Styx did perform it live in Atlanta with a full orchestra prior to Gowan joining. I have not seen the download video or even know if it exists.

The whole issue over money being a primary focus of why a song gets released or not is kind of crazy. Let's be honest alomost all the decisions made by rock bands have something if not all to do with money. That is why JY and company tour non stop, its not the love of playing live or that they like sleeping in Hotels. Its that is the most economic best decision for this version of the band. I don't put the "non commercial" bands on a pedestal myself. I can't stand the Grateful Dead who were the poster childs for that. Even all of those grunge bands during the 90s were being "anti commercial" to be "commercial". Its all an image. It all comes down to if you like the songs or not. I burned out on Stairway to Heaven years ago, I think even Led Zep burned out on it. Radio played that non single every single day along with Freebird.

[MCM]

Yeah but the 14 year old audiance it very marketable...

Besides if Dennis was singing good girls don't but I do, I don't think anyone would take him serious..."and its a teenage sadness that everyone has got to taste, when she's sitting on your face (and it hurts)".. I like that sound better than my sharona..

Now you've made me get that Knack cd out to listen to.. there was lots better on that album than My Sharona.

[KWH17]

Yeah but the 14 year old audiance it very marketable...

Of course, that is why we have the High School Musical movies [which, of course, isn't stopping at 3, they're actually making at least 4]

I don't put the "non commercial" bands on a pedestal myself. I can't stand the Grateful Dead who were the poster childs for that. Even all of those grunge bands during the 90s were being "anti commercial" to be "commercial". Its all an image. It all comes down to if you like the songs or not.

I used to say I wasn't into "commercial" music, but then I realized that I was. Like you said, it's all an image to try to gain a niche market created by the marketers of the artist/band, and they probably wouldn't label themselves any sort of way, they just make music.

[LordofDaRing]

"Of course, that is why we have the High School Musical movies [which, of course, isn't stopping at 3, they're actually making at least 4]"

Ha, don't remind me, my little girl is 9. Thankfully mommie took her to that and the Jonus Brothers in 3D movie. My 6 year old son and I stayed home and watched Basketball.

[brywool]

Maybe Dennis could get it into the next HS Musical film. First Time is targeted for that audience, or maybe just a bit older. "First Time for love...." yeah, we KNOW what you're talking about. I think that HSM would be a perfect vehicle for that song and target the proper audience. I'm totally serious, btw.

Sorry, in Seattle, I never heard the song on the radio and was glad.

[Toph]

Yeah but the 14 year old audiance it very marketable...

Besides if Dennis was singing good girls don't but I do, I don't think anyone would take him serious..."and its a teenage sadness that everyone has got to taste, when she's sitting on your face (and it hurts)".. I like that sound better than my sharona..

There was an article written by Journey's manager about how the band TARGETED being an album band rather than a singles band and it was totally the right move for them. He made some good points about having a flash in the pan career or making a career for the long haul.

The is such bullshit. I'm sorry. I do not understand how Journey can put out as singles Open Arms, Who's Cryin Now, and Still They Ride and somehow get a pass for that and yet Babe and First Time are panned. Doesn't make sense. If anything, Journey was MORE of a singles band than Styx. Journey took the ballad and used it almost religiously as a way to get top 10 singles. Journey releases these three and then follows it up on their next album with Faithfully and Send Her My Love - two more ballads! Give me a break.

[brywool]

Yeah but the 14 year old audiance it very marketable...

Besides if Dennis was singing good girls don't but I do, I don't think anyone would take him serious..."and its a teenage sadness that everyone has got to taste, when she's sitting on your face (and it hurts)".. I like that sound better than my sharona..

There was an article written by Journey's manager about how the band TARGETED being an album band rather than a singles band and it was totally the right move for them. He made some good points about having a flash in the pan career or making a career for the long haul.

The is such bullshit. I'm sorry. I do not understand how Journey can put out as singles Open Arms, Who's Cryin Now, and Still They Ride and somehow get a pass for that and yet Babe and First Time are panned. Doesn't make sense. If anything, Journey was MORE of a singles band than Styx. Journey took the ballad and used it almost religiously as a way to get top 10 singles. Journey releases these three and then follows it up on their next album with Faithfully and Send Her My Love - two more ballads! Give me a break.

OOPS- shoulda clarified, sorry. The album comment thing was EARLY in their career, not after they'd already made it (journey). Sorry about that. During the Infinity or Evolution sessions, Herbert expounded this philosophy to the band. Rather than 'go for the hit single', he wanted them to build a long-lasting, not flash in the pan career. Wish I could find that freakin' quote.