Dennis on Rockline

[froy]

Honestly I bet Dennis was much more pissed off about the things JY said during BTM than anything written in either book. If he was mad at Sterling, it would be more of a shoot the messenger thing. But I said it once and will say again, Sterling's book in no way comes across to this reader as a Dennis basher. I have not read Chuck's book.

Jy looked like a complete asshole on BTM

[ChicagoSTYX]

I just listened to rockline on line.
I liked Private Jones a lot. It really sounded like classic Styx. Great song. Glad he added it to the CD.

It'll be interesting once the album is out to hear how it flows with the songs that were remixed and/or added/taken away. I'm so used to the Canadian version at this point.

I don't think we will hear that Dennis does not Rock anymore
Most of this cd is smokin
Hey Chicago Styx can you send me over the new STYX cd info .

Froy you do know this DDY CD is 2 years old don't you?

[ChicagoSTYX]

Private Jones ....... best DDY song in 29 years. Good job.

[Zan]

Honestly I bet Dennis was much more pissed off about the things JY said during BTM than anything written in either book. If he was mad at Sterling, it would be more of a shoot the messenger thing. But I said it once and will say again, Sterling's book in no way comes across to this reader as a Dennis basher. I have not read Chuck's book.

Jy looked like a complete asshole on BTM

And Dennis looked like a victim. Just like always.

[Zan]

Honestly I bet Dennis was much more pissed off about the things JY said during BTM than anything written in either book. If he was mad at Sterling, it would be more of a shoot the messenger thing. But I said it once and will say again, Sterling's book in no way comes across to this reader as a Dennis basher. I have not read Chuck's book.

Chuck's book is decent, though kind of a glance at the whole thing rather than in in depth deal.

Chuck's book is about Chuck's life, in which Styx was a part of. Sterling's book is about Styx.

[LordofDaRing]

I tried to order Chuck's book at the same time as Sterling's from Amazon and I got this huge delay in the shipping order due to Chuck's book. So I changed my order and got Sterling's book in two days.

I am not sure Dennis comes across as a victim, the fact is he is no longer in Styx and it was not a voluntary attrition. He gives his side of the story, just like JY and Tommy. I am ok with BTM, until that comment about the 16 doctors and I am going to let that stand as a statement. The comment is one thing, but the way JY says it, his facial expression, well you know opinions are like butts we all have one. The implication is that he is "faking" this illness. I always go back to, what would his motive be to fake it? Even a serial killer has a motive, albiet deranged and insane, but he/she always has some reason for their action. That tour had gold mine written all over it, and Dennis like the others knew that. IMO they could have waited another couple of months. I think the original plan was to have an orchestra on some of the dates, i would have loved to seen that line up with GB, TS and DDY on the same stage. Talking about killer harmonies!

Sigh......but again at least we have BTM to tell a Styx story, I don't recall any other documentaries prior to that one.

[Zan]

[quote="LordofDaRing"]I tried to order Chuck's book at the same time as Sterling's from Amazon and I got this huge delay in the shipping order due to Chuck's book. So I changed my order and got Sterling's book in two days.

I am not sure Dennis comes across as a victim, the fact is he is no longer in Styx and it was not a voluntary attrition. He gives his side of the story, just like JY and Tommy. I am ok with BTM, until that comment about the 16 doctors and I am going to let that stand as a statement. The comment is one thing, but the way JY says it, his facial expression, well you know opinions are like butts we all have one. The implication is that he is "faking" this illness. I always go back to, what would his motive be to fake it? Even a serial killer has a motive, albiet deranged and insane, but he/she always has some reason for their action. That tour had gold mine written all over it, and Dennis like the others knew that. IMO they could have waited another couple of months. I think the original plan was to have an orchestra on some of the dates, i would have loved to seen that line up with GB, TS and DDY on the same stage. Talking about killer harmonies!



Behind the Music aired nine years ago, but for the sake of...whatever, let's discuss it some more.

One thing I think that a lot of FANS seem to NEVER grasp is that there is NO WAY to possibly KNOW what went on behind closed doors, EVER. Based on the few conversations I have had with various members of the organization over the years, the one thing I am certain of is that there was a mountain of sludge and BS flaying from left & right for many, many years. Us, as fans, sit at home, wait for Styx's next release to hit the stands, and either likes it or we don't. Then we go see the tours, or we don't. For these men, Styx is not just a band that shaped their psyches as prepubescent younglings, it was THEIR ENTIRE LIFE.

So here we all sit, as people with lives of our own, BS or our own, watch a one hour program that was HEAVILY & SELECTIVELY EDITED, and go, "Oh, he is SUCH an asshole," or "can you believe he/she DID/SAID THAT?" Or my favorite, "That's exactly how it happened. It said so on BTM." Yeah. 30 years of intricate dysfunction was completely and perfectly summarized in 48 minutes of television/ VH-1 should get a Pulitzer or at least an Emmy.

LOTR, I don't have an answer for you as to whether they "could have" waited a "couple months" or they couldn't. maybe you're right (maybe you're not). But what I DO know is that 5 men, who had a long history together with all the aforementioned BS behind them, each made decisions that THEY FELT was best, and the majority ruled. Plain & simple.

Was it a "corporate takeover?" Um...maybe. How the hell do I know? I'm just a fan. But I do know that for whatever reason, ONE GUY'S vote didn't seem to count for much. if you were to ask MY OPINION, it would be that perhaps that ONE GUY'S opinion didn't count for much because of previous experiences with said person, but if you to ask Froy's opinion, he'd tell you it was likely because Shaw and Young wanted to have ALL THE MONEY for themselves, even though they were FULLY AWARE that a tour without their main lead singer would cause them a fair amount of sizable problems.

For the record, I DID NOT TAKE JY'S comments about "letting it stand as a statement" to mean he thought Dennis was *lying* about being sick. I did take it to mean sort of like what he meant when he said "if 16 doctors can't figure out what's wrong with him, i don't know how I'm supposed to." As in: What does that mean??? Do you see what we are always up against?? Or, more familiarly, "WTF?"

But that's just me. Everyone's got their own spin, mine is just one. But I don't think he was calling him a "liar" at all.

I thought Tommy Shaw came out looking best of all, except maybe Chuck.

[bugsymalone]

But that's just me. Everyone's got their own spin, mine is just one.

Exactly. I don't think I have talked to a single person, avid Styx fan or just the casual viewer watching the show out of curiosity, who has not had a different take on this program. We already know, from long-ago discussions on this board, that it was edited to meet VH1's "standards" which was, of course, to present as much drama as possible.


Bugsy

[MCM]

Behind the Music aired nine years ago, but for the sake of...whatever, let's discuss it some more.

One thing I think that a lot of FANS seem to NEVER grasp is that there is NO WAY to possibly KNOW what went on behind closed doors, EVER. Based on the few conversations I have had with various members of the organization over the years, the one thing I am certain of is that there was a mountain of sludge and BS flaying from left & right for many, many years. Us, as fans, sit at home, wait for Styx's next release to hit the stands, and either likes it or we don't. Then we go see the tours, or we don't. For these men, Styx is not just a band that shaped their psyches as prepubescent younglings, it was THEIR ENTIRE LIFE.

So here we all sit, as people with lives of our own, BS or our own, watch a one hour program that was HEAVILY & SELECTIVELY EDITED, and go, "Oh, he is SUCH an asshole," or "can you believe he/she DID/SAID THAT?" Or my favorite, "That's exactly how it happened. It said so on BTM." Yeah. 30 years of intricate dysfunction was completely and perfectly summarized in 48 minutes of television/ VH-1 should get a Pulitzer or at least an Emmy.

LOTR, I don't have an answer for you as to whether they "could have" waited a "couple months" or they couldn't. maybe you're right (maybe you're not). But what I DO know is that 5 men, who had a long history together with all the aforementioned BS behind them, each made decisions that THEY FELT was best, and the majority ruled. Plain & simple.

Was it a "corporate takeover?" Um...maybe. How the hell do I know? I'm just a fan. But I do know that for whatever reason, ONE GUY'S vote didn't seem to count for much. if you were to ask MY OPINION, it would be that perhaps that ONE GUY'S opinion didn't count for much because of previous experiences with said person, but if you to ask Froy's opinion, he'd tell you it was likely because Shaw and Young wanted to have ALL THE MONEY for themselves, even though they were FULLY AWARE that a tour without their main lead singer would cause them a fair amount of sizable problems.

For the record, I DID NOT TAKE JY'S comments about "letting it stand as a statement" to mean he thought Dennis was *lying* about being sick. I did take it to mean sort of like what he meant when he said "if 16 doctors can't figure out what's wrong with him, i don't know how I'm supposed to." As in: What does that mean??? Do you see what we are always up against?? Or, more familiarly, "WTF?"

But that's just me. Everyone's got their own spin, mine is just one. But I don't think he was calling him a "liar" at all.

I thought Tommy Shaw came out looking best of all, except maybe Chuck.

Bravo Zan, Bravo!

I doubt that after all this time that has passed, with memories skewed, their own individual impressions, memories and opinions, that they even know what truly went on during that time.

[brywool]

The implication is that he is "faking" this illness. I always go back to, what would his motive be to fake it?

The motive would be that he didn't want to be away from his family or his hunchback.
One thing to remember is that you're only shown that comment by JY out of context. It could've been something else that made him say it as he did. However, if I was in a band and one guy kept whining about the road and putting off recording, to do other things, it WOULD get old. I'm surprised that they waited as long as they did to push Dennis out. Doesn't mean it was right or wrong, but I can see why they would do it. They wanted to work. Dennis couldn't (or wouldn't?).

I think the original plan was to have an orchestra on some of the dates, i would have loved to seen that line up with GB, TS and DDY on the same stage. Talking about killer harmonies!

DEFINITELY.

[LordofDaRing]

"However, if I was in a band and one guy kept whining about the road and putting off recording, to do other things, it WOULD get old. I'm surprised that they waited as long as they did to push Dennis out. Doesn't mean it was right or wrong, but I can see why they would do it. They wanted to work. Dennis couldn't (or wouldn't?)."

Interesting comment, do you feel the same about the guy you have in your moniker there? I know go to the Journey forum (lol)

Oh look, as I mentioned earlier, I am ok with BTM because it is the ONLY such documentary of Styx. I am certainly not comparing it to Godfather or Gone with the Wind. It had many faults and I am quite aware of how editing works for tv shows, for example spending Wayyyyyy to much time on the Babe/Damn Yankees thing, barely touching on JP's death and what I thought was the worst over sight, not even mentioning JC's death. If you have followed the BTM segments, they spend way to much time on the drugs/divorce/death sensationalism history of the band and very little on the actual music. The Styx segment is considered on their better ones, go figure. I know they interviewed all the members for several hours/days and it is what it is.

Points taken on BTM airing 9 years ago (time flys huh), and yes I was never in the room when DDY and TS argued, or when thier manager was fired, or Chuck confessed his alternative lifestyle to TS, or when Suzanne said this, or JC said that, etc. So for the balance of this topic, I guess I can stick to only current and irrefutable facts. Let's see, Grand Illusion was my fav Styx album....wait they did that over 30 years ago. TS is a great guitarist....oops stating an opinion, not a fact. Well I do plan on purchasing 100 Years from Now soon, so I will get back to you...

[StyxCollector]

Behind the Music aired nine years ago, but for the sake of...whatever, let's discuss it some more.

One thing I think that a lot of FANS seem to NEVER grasp is that there is NO WAY to possibly KNOW what went on behind closed doors, EVER. Based on the few conversations I have had with various members of the organization over the years, the one thing I am certain of is that there was a mountain of sludge and BS flaying from left & right for many, many years. Us, as fans, sit at home, wait for Styx's next release to hit the stands, and either likes it or we don't. Then we go see the tours, or we don't. For these men, Styx is not just a band that shaped their psyches as prepubescent younglings, it was THEIR ENTIRE LIFE.

So here we all sit, as people with lives of our own, BS or our own, watch a one hour program that was HEAVILY & SELECTIVELY EDITED, and go, "Oh, he is SUCH an asshole," or "can you believe he/she DID/SAID THAT?" Or my favorite, "That's exactly how it happened. It said so on BTM." Yeah. 30 years of intricate dysfunction was completely and perfectly summarized in 48 minutes of television/ VH-1 should get a Pulitzer or at least an Emmy.

LOTR, I don't have an answer for you as to whether they "could have" waited a "couple months" or they couldn't. maybe you're right (maybe you're not). But what I DO know is that 5 men, who had a long history together with all the aforementioned BS behind them, each made decisions that THEY FELT was best, and the majority ruled. Plain & simple.

Was it a "corporate takeover?" Um...maybe. How the hell do I know? I'm just a fan. But I do know that for whatever reason, ONE GUY'S vote didn't seem to count for much. if you were to ask MY OPINION, it would be that perhaps that ONE GUY'S opinion didn't count for much because of previous experiences with said person, but if you to ask Froy's opinion, he'd tell you it was likely because Shaw and Young wanted to have ALL THE MONEY for themselves, even though they were FULLY AWARE that a tour without their main lead singer would cause them a fair amount of sizable problems.

There's one definitive thing we can say about Styx 1999 - now and post-BTM: that event fractured some (not all) of the fanbase. Look at Froy vs. ChicagoSTYX as prime examples of people in "camps".

I do agree with Zan here - none of us, even those who have talked with folks in the organization or to the band members themselves - will ever know exactly what went on because we're not JY, TS, Dennis, or Chuck. We were not there or on the phone when things were said or went down.

There are some things you can draw a few conclusions on, but everything else to some degree will always be speculation by anyone outside of those guys, and when you hear from the principals is their perspective on the same events they all experienced.

[Toph]

I thought Tommy Shaw came out looking best of all, except maybe Chuck.

Now there's a fuckin' surprise...

[froy]

Honestly I bet Dennis was much more pissed off about the things JY said during BTM than anything written in either book. If he was mad at Sterling, it would be more of a shoot the messenger thing. But I said it once and will say again, Sterling's book in no way comes across to this reader as a Dennis basher. I have not read Chuck's book.

Jy looked like a complete asshole on BTM

And Dennis looked like a victim. Just like always.

Nope not really
Shaw looked stupid also
Dennis did not say anything and we knew it was over
Give me a break
That quick ha it was over
Bullshit

If Phil Collins asked for 6 months you think they would say its over
two dumb dumbs

[froy]

I just listened to rockline on line.
I liked Private Jones a lot. It really sounded like classic Styx. Great song. Glad he added it to the CD.

It'll be interesting once the album is out to hear how it flows with the songs that were remixed and/or added/taken away. I'm so used to the Canadian version at this point.

I don't think we will hear that Dennis does not Rock anymore
Most of this cd is smokin
Hey Chicago Styx can you send me over the new STYX cd info .

Froy you do know this DDY CD is 2 years old don't you?

Yea and you owe me dinner you cheap bastard

[LordofDaRing]

[quote="Zan"]
LordofDaRing wrote:



I thought Tommy Shaw came out looking best of all, except maybe Chuck.


Now there's a fuckin' surprise...



Hmmm, the way that copied over, it looks like I said it. For the record none of those guys "look" good to me, he says in his most homophobic voice.
Yeah what do you think TS worthy of Tiger Beat Cover next to David Cassidy or Bobby Sherman?

[froy]

The implication is that he is "faking" this illness. I always go back to, what would his motive be to fake it?

Bottom line here is that Dennis hated BNW
Dennis was not allowed for the first time to produce it becuase they did not want to pay him to do it
It was a phone in cd
Dennis said the cd sucks give me 6 months and I will fix it they said no and Dennis got sunburn
Then JY and Shaw said Dennis you owe me 35 gs for the VW commercial
Dennis said its my song sorry
Then Shaw said its over

Those are the facts

A shit cd and money issues and poof you have Captain Kangaroo singing Lady instead of Dennis
That simple

I personally don't think Perry or DeYoung had health issues
I think they were bullshit stories
In fact you don't hear Dennis saying how he was cured from this issue
Did it just go away?
Perry also total BS no way the guy had any hip issue
He was seen in Hawaii when he was supposedly crippled.

Look at Perry he has lost 100 million dollars by not touring with JRNY
you think its his hip?
Try his hoarse voice
1 show and he is done
Steve Perry knows you can't book a JRNY tour around his voice

[chowhall]

Dennis said the cd sucks give me 6 months and I will fix it they said no and Dennis got sunburn
Then JY and Shaw said Dennis you owe me 35 gs for the VW commercial
Dennis said its my song sorry
Then Shaw said its over

Those are the facts

A shit cd and money issues and poof you have Captain Kangaroo singing Lady instead of Dennis
That simple

I personally don't think Perry or DeYoung had health issues
I think they were bullshit stories
In fact you don't hear Dennis saying how he was cured from this issue
Did it just go away?

I edited your post not to confuse the Journey issue with Styx.

If what you say is true, are you accusing Dennis of Fraud? Are you saying Dennis was so petulant that he would wreck the very band he started because he didn't get his way? This line of "logic" doesn't make Dennis to be any more sympathetic. If what you say is true, then Dennis truly would deserve to be the "bad" guy here.


As a fan with no inside info, I'll stick with the position the truth lies somewhere in between with enough blame to go on both sides.

[froy]

Dennis said the cd sucks give me 6 months and I will fix it they said no and Dennis got sunburn
Then JY and Shaw said Dennis you owe me 35 gs for the VW commercial
Dennis said its my song sorry
Then Shaw said its over

Those are the facts

A shit cd and money issues and poof you have Captain Kangaroo singing Lady instead of Dennis
That simple

I personally don't think Perry or DeYoung had health issues
I think they were bullshit stories
In fact you don't hear Dennis saying how he was cured from this issue
Did it just go away?

I edited your post not to confuse the Journey issue with Styx.

If what you say is true, are you accusing Dennis of Fraud?

Fraud of what?
The cd sucked it was not a band effort
The production sucked.
Dennis's songs sucked.
They needed to have him produce the thing
Look at his cd compared to that crap.

Are you saying Dennis was so petulant that he would wreck the very band he started because he didn't get his way?

I think he wanted to save it from being wrecked like it has,

This line of "logic" doesn't make Dennis to be any more sympathetic. If what you say is true, then Dennis truly would deserve to be the "bad" guy here.

On the contrary
He knew it was a bust and tried to save it
Guess what it was a bust.
Still is.


As a fan with no inside info, I'll stick with the position the truth lies somewhere in between with enough blame to go on both sides.

Right follow the crowd but don't wait for heroes

[styxfansite]

Here is "Behind The Music" if you care to watch it again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z242h8exYVM Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unOvhLyRPoo Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd0U6pjXimM Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqs1Jl0J_Js Part 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wuoGe7S5dY Part 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLH1CkxJqv0 Part 6

[KWH17]

Personally, I do not believe that Dennis was faking.

Around the time that he got sick he experiences two major deaths [well one may have not been *major* per se, I wouldn't know], and his Hunchback cd release is forestalled because of Disney's convenient release of their Hunchback [and no, I'm not suggesting that Disney was purposely trying to screw Dennis over, it's just that it was purely coincidental].

So his father dies, and his dream project is held back from success. Knowing what I know [from Sterling's book and interviews, and my own experiences with other people], his sickness could have been purely psychosomatic, or self-created. Doctors couldn't do anything because the only way to cure it was for Dennis to confront it himself. This is probably why you haven't heard reports about someone "curing" him. Quote: Did he just get better? That's what I think exactly happened! Why would he not announce anything? Because he either got over it, was like "okay", and just didn't care to get the word out, or it could have been embarrassment. If his sickness were truly psychosomatic, then that would indicate there was a problem directly wrong with him, and it just seems like to me that he wouldn't want to admit to having such issues.

I think the reason he's fully over it is because he has proven to be a success without Styx, and even though he has said he would love to be back in Styx, he knows perfectly well that he's doing just fine without their help. This success has probably boosted his ego, and since he clearly has had/still has confidence issues, achieving such success has probably helped him out in that respect.

I don't think he was purposely out to piss the other guys off, or hold back the success of the band, I think it' just that he was going through a turbulent time, and needed some time to take care of things, but the other bands members by that point were sick of waiting, sick of taking orders, and just dropped him right there.

Note; All of this is just my opinion based off of what I know [interviews, and reading around here], and I am not suggesting that any of this be taken as absolute fact, with of course the exception of what we all know really is fact. I was not there when it happened [wasn't a fan until '05 or '06] so like I said, all I have to go off of is what I've read about that time period, and my own perception of the band members, and what I think they were thinking at the time.

[Zan]

Someone once said, if you're going to tell a bullshit story, make sure there's at least 20% truth to it. That way, it's never really a "lie."

[KWH17]

Someone once said, if you're going to tell a bullshit story, make sure there's at least 20% truth to it. That way, it's never really a "lie."

I guess that's in reference to me. Like I said, it was just my perception/speculation, so if an opinion is just BS.....no wait, I'd have to agree with you, most opinions are BS.

That's kinda why I put the paragraph disclaimer at the bottom of my post. Without it, then it is just a story/lie.

[AnnieOprah]

Someone once said, if you're going to tell a bullshit story, make sure there's at least 20% truth to it. That way, it's never really a "lie."

I guess that's in reference to me. Like I said, it was just my perception/speculation, so if an opinion is just BS.....no wait, I'd have to agree with you, most opinions are BS.

That's kinda why I put the paragraph disclaimer at the bottom of my post. Without it, then it is just a story/lie.

Ignore her KWH - if you say anything that might be against her "side" she comes at you with a vengeance.

[Zan]

Someone once said, if you're going to tell a bullshit story, make sure there's at least 20% truth to it. That way, it's never really a "lie."

I guess that's in reference to me. Like I said, it was just my perception/speculation, so if an opinion is just BS.....no wait, I'd have to agree with you, most opinions are BS.

That's kinda why I put the paragraph disclaimer at the bottom of my post. Without it, then it is just a story/lie.

It wasn't aimed at you, KWH. But it might have been your post that reminded me of the expression. Was it you who said you believed that Dennis was actually sick? Froy says is was pure fiction, and all of this is over money (a story that's very easily believable). Now, if I was Dennis, and I had a bad bout with the Flu that lasted a long time and affected my daily life for some time afterward, and then around the same time, on a totally unrelated note, my band kicked me out because of "greed," I think the flu story would come in handy, wouldn't it?

It would seem to me that if Froy's theory holds any water, and Dennis was really ill at some point, than the illness was definitely used as a veil (hence the 20% truth) to cover the real reason for the divide.

[froy]

Someone once said, if you're going to tell a bullshit story, make sure there's at least 20% truth to it. That way, it's never really a "lie."

I guess that's in reference to me. Like I said, it was just my perception/speculation, so if an opinion is just BS.....no wait, I'd have to agree with you, most opinions are BS.

That's kinda why I put the paragraph disclaimer at the bottom of my post. Without it, then it is just a story/lie.

Ignore her KWH - if you say anything that might be against her "side" she comes at you with a vengeance.

Meow

[froy]

and then around the same time, on a totally unrelated note, my band kicked me out because of "greed," I think the flu story would come in handy, wouldn't it?

Greed?
You think they deserved a cut of the Roboto comercial?
The very same song they said ruined the band.
Which is it ?
They want the cash when its there and the blame to Dennis when its bad.
IMO Shaw and JY deserved 0 for that commercial
Not 1 cent

It would seem to me that if Froy's theory holds any water, and Dennis was really ill at some point, than the illness was definitely used as a veil (hence the 20% truth) to cover the real reason for the divide.[/color][/b]

[/quote]

Beyond the illness
Its an old excuse everyone uses it
The fact is its years later the band is cashed and where do they go now?
More Gowan classisc?

[Zan]

and then around the same time, on a totally unrelated note, my band kicked me out because of "greed," I think the flu story would come in handy, wouldn't it?

Greed?
You think they deserved a cut of the Roboto comercial?
The very same song they said ruined the band.
Which is it ?
They want the cash when its there and the blame to Dennis when its bad.

When did they say that song ruined the band? I seem to recall there being many, many, MANY contributing factors where that was concerned. Roboto was just a small, annoying piece to that.

Furthermore, the production and efforts put into "Roboto" were not solely Dennis'. Even though the rest of the group hated the song, it doesn't mean they didn't contribute anything to it. They each shelled out $200K for the dumb-ass movie DeYoung insisted on, in spite of their personal disdain for it, they all LOST money when the tour took a huge hit and had to scatter to throw a stadium tour together, they all paid for Dennis' misjudgment. (Could they have boycotted the whole thing to begin with? Some say they could have, but again, I am of the frame of mind that they were in a situation none of us will ever be able to understand. Therefore, there's no way of really knowing.) But they DID equally contribute financially to the train wreck that was Kilroy, even though Dennis had manufactured himself into a position where he got paid for all the producing, etc. So his losses were substantially less - and as he was so eloquently quoted in BTM "I will never again do this TO MYSELF." You can shape that any way your hearts desire, but I would venture a guess that you're in a band, in a "camaraderie" mentality, and one guy continues and continues to claim his independence from the group and line his own pockets in spite of everyone elses' sacrifices in order for him to be in the position he is in to begin with, I bet it would start to wear a little thin.

Now, if years later, that same old BS starts up again ("I insist I produce this record"), I can certainly see why they would not "allow" him to produce the new album, EVEN IF it meant the sound would change because - you can be damn sure they weren't going to subject themselves to that kind of ass-rapery again. I can hear the "F -- him and his producer fees" remarks now...

It would seem to me that if Froy's theory holds any water, and Dennis was really ill at some point, than the illness was definitely used as a veil (hence the 20% truth) to cover the real reason for the divide.[/color][/b]

[/quote]

Beyond the illness
Its an old excuse everyone uses it
The fact is its years later the band is cashed and where do they go now?
More Gowan classisc?[/quote]


Bottom line: It's their band to do with what they choose. Clearly, the judge in the lawsuit felt there was enough ground for them to stand on when he gave them permission to use the band name. Dennis should be happy because he will always get his royalties now with no one will call him to question, and the rest of the guys are happy because they don't ever have to deal with him again.

And hey, if you think their new material or producing abilities suck, I'm also willing to bet that don't really care about that either, as long as they're away from Denny.

And uh, I'll put some money on that bet about Tommy Shaw NOT being the mystery guest 3rd guitarist on the Burtnik/DeYoung gig in NYC. Any takers?

[KWH17]

Someone once said, if you're going to tell a bullshit story, make sure there's at least 20% truth to it. That way, it's never really a "lie."

I guess that's in reference to me. Like I said, it was just my perception/speculation, so if an opinion is just BS.....no wait, I'd have to agree with you, most opinions are BS.

That's kinda why I put the paragraph disclaimer at the bottom of my post. Without it, then it is just a story/lie.

It wasn't aimed at you, KWH. But it might have been your post that reminded me of the expression. Was it you who said you believed that Dennis was actually sick? Froy says is was pure fiction, and all of this is over money (a story that's very easily believable). Now, if I was Dennis, and I had a bad bout with the Flu that lasted a long time and affected my daily life for some time afterward, and then around the same time, on a totally unrelated note, my band kicked me out because of "greed," I think the flu story would come in handy, wouldn't it?

It would seem to me that if Froy's theory holds any water, and Dennis was really ill at some point, than the illness was definitely used as a veil (hence the 20% truth) to cover the real reason for the divide.

Oh okay, it's just hard to tell where someone's post is directed specifically. Darn this vague internet!

You do make a good point there Zan, it could be seen either way, and either theory is just as likely from what we've seen from these guys's behaviour over the years.

Froy also brings up a good point, and I agree somewhat with what Froy said about the Roboto commercial. Both sides were after good money, and that brought out the hypocrite in them. With Dennis, he had tried numerous times to reach success by himself, holding Styx back from doing some projects [if I remember correctly], but after failing to do so restarted efforts with the band, and trying to control the project [the whole thing being done at his studio, produced by him] so it came out the way he saw best. At the same time TS+JY themed their new album after the same kind of dystopian future that KWH had. I realize that BNW's theme had nothing to do with it's sound, quality, or why the band was fueding, but it's interesting to note that even though TS+JY hated KWH, they chose a similar theme for BNW.

I think Glen said something about both sides being wrong in certain respects. I think he also mentioned that nothing changed after DDY was booted out; it was just that TS was the one calling the shots.

edited

[Zan]

I think Glen said something about both sides being wrong in certain respects. I think he also mentioned that nothing changed after DDY was booted out; it was just that TS was the one calling the shots.

Is that what he said?

Ya know, at times, these goofy threads are actually kinda fun.