Trial By Fire

[Michigan Girl]

People are too hard on Baby, I'm.... Leaving You. It was just a fun song, a throw-in. Not even listed on the album setlist. Geesh ...

I agree, Annie.....I love it!!!

[portland]

People are too hard on Baby, I'm.... Leaving You. It was just a fun song, a throw-in. Not even listed on the album setlist. Geesh ...

I agree, Annie.....I love it!!!

I do too, it's just not your typical Journey song....but it is fun to listen to

[Red13JoePa]

Is Steve Perry's voice now better than the TBF era. So many reports say he has it back.

Careful.
We need to distinguish hyporbolic posts (same as'83 LOL) from members here and other online worship dens full of wishfull thinking and anonymous "sources" as actual reports.

I'd just as soon here it from the individual himself of someone actually in his camp.

To put it in the parlance of the always eloquent Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction, "Let's not start sucking eachother's d---s just yet."

[MrsPerry]

Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

Worst Journey song pre-1998.

Possibly, but still better than anything new since 1998.

Are you kidding me? Arrival smokes that goofy song.
But you're not about to give any credit to anything that isn't Perry, so I'm not surpised.

I'll give credit. The playing on the stuff after SP has still been great, but just like some say that Perry's songs suffer without the help of Neal and Jon, it plays both ways. They haven't written 1 great song without SP. The last great Journey song was When You Love A Woman.

With SP, Journey was like great sex. Without him, the new stuff is musical masturbation. All the notes are there, but it sure as hell ain't the same.

Yep.

that was the most explanitive thing said about the new stuff to date. OWNED!

[portland]

Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

Worst Journey song pre-1998.

Possibly, but still better than anything new since 1998.

Are you kidding me? Arrival smokes that goofy song.
But you're not about to give any credit to anything that isn't Perry, so I'm not surpised.

I'll give credit. The playing on the stuff after SP has still been great, but just like some say that Perry's songs suffer without the help of Neal and Jon, it plays both ways. They haven't written 1 great song without SP. The last great Journey song was When You Love A Woman.

With SP, Journey was like great sex. Without him, the new stuff is musical masturbation. All the notes are there, but it sure as hell ain't the same.

Yep.

that was the most explanitive thing said about the new stuff to date. OWNED!

+1

[Ehwmatt]

Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

Worst Journey song pre-1998.

Possibly, but still better than anything new since 1998.

Are you kidding me? Arrival smokes that goofy song.
But you're not about to give any credit to anything that isn't Perry, so I'm not surpised.

I'll give credit. The playing on the stuff after SP has still been great, but just like some say that Perry's songs suffer without the help of Neal and Jon, it plays both ways. They haven't written 1 great song without SP. The last great Journey song was When You Love A Woman.

With SP, Journey was like great sex. Without him, the new stuff is musical masturbation. All the notes are there, but it sure as hell ain't the same.

Yep.

that was the most explanitive thing said about the new stuff to date. OWNED!

No.

[Red13JoePa]

Yep.

that was the most explanitive thing said about the new stuff to date. OWNED!

+1[/quote]



Ever the masters of hard-hitting, thought-provoking, challenging posts, those loons.

Bandwith well-spent Drew

[brywool]

okay, I have a new appreciation for TBF that might explain what seems to be a girls against the guys thing here...

Took my baby away for the weekend. Rented a cabin. Awesome place. Had the iPod but unfortunately, when it dumped it's memory last year, Neal's "Beyond the Thunder" and "Late Night" albums went with it. So, not much romantical music on there. So I said, what's a fairly sleepy album? TBF was the winner. It was good for that kind of drinking by the fire thing. Even Just the Rain (which I've never liked) and TBF (the song) fit in really well with that mood.

So, I have a new appreciation.

That'd explain why the women here seem to overwhelmingly like that record compared to the guys.

Just sayin'...

[Ehwmatt]

okay, I have a new appreciation for TBF that might explain what seems to be a girls against the guys thing here...

Took my baby away for the weekend. Rented a cabin. Awesome place. Had the iPod but unfortunately, when it dumped it's memory last year, Neal's "Beyond the Thunder" and "Late Night" albums went with it. So, not much romantical music on there. So I said, what's a fairly sleepy album? TBF was the winner. It was good for that kind of drinking by the fire thing. Even Just the Rain (which I've never liked) and TBF (the song) fit in really well with that mood.

So, I have a new appreciation.

That'd explain why the women here seem to overwhelmingly like that record compared to the guys.

Just sayin'...

Haven't tried it in that setting yet, but I can definitely see it working wonders for that. I always say TBF is my "winter" Journey album. I tend to not listen to them so much during the cold winter months, with the exception of TBF. Then summer rolls around and TBF material doesn't get too many spins... kinda the same deal as your situation, just a different stripe.

And as I've said many a time, I really like the record. But it's definitely a mood record.

[journey361]

Hmmmmmmmmm, someone help me am i so wrong here, wasn't TBF recorded just a year or alittle over a year after the making and or recording of FTLOSM. SP's voice was or i should say should have been around the same in all levels including texture, control, tone and velocity. FTLOSM was awesome in terms of all the above and all reports from the sessions for recording on TBF were negative and a term used is (THE DIRTY DOZEN). What's up with that?

[Don]

Hmmmmmmmmm, someone help me am i so wrong here, wasn't TBF recorded just a year or alittle over a year after the making and or recording of FTLOSM. SP's voice was or i should say should have been around the same in all levels including texture, control, tone and velocity. FTLOSM was awesome in terms of all the above and all reports from the sessions for recording on TBF were negative and a term used is (THE DIRTY DOZEN). What's up with that?

I'm sorry, but FTLOSM makes TBF look like Led Zepplin 4. Sony must have let Perry put it out just to get him off their back.

[journey361]

He sounds great on FTLOSM and i might add that with direction and a different style or complete reversal of writing, he could have had a blockbuster with that voice. But on the dirty dozen, it's a completly different sound. I'm not talking about the songs written and recorded, i ONLY question the TBF voice.

[Saint John]

okay, I have a new appreciation for TBF that might explain what seems to be a girls against the guys thing here...

Took my baby away for the weekend. Rented a cabin. Awesome place. Had the iPod but unfortunately, when it dumped it's memory last year, Neal's "Beyond the Thunder" and "Late Night" albums went with it. So, not much romantical music on there. So I said, what's a fairly sleepy album? TBF was the winner. It was good for that kind of drinking by the fire thing. Even Just the Rain (which I've never liked) and TBF (the song) fit in really well with that mood.

So, I have a new appreciation.

That'd explain why the women here seem to overwhelmingly like that record compared to the guys.

Just sayin'...

If I wanted that type of fucking music I'd throw in Air Supply (and I like them for the record). Journey was a rock band until Perry took creative control (ROR and TBF). Then they became Air Journey. Hey, somebody tell Nike. Would make a cool shoe name!

[S2M]

The official kicks of SMFP

[brywool]

okay, I have a new appreciation for TBF that might explain what seems to be a girls against the guys thing here...

Took my baby away for the weekend. Rented a cabin. Awesome place. Had the iPod but unfortunately, when it dumped it's memory last year, Neal's "Beyond the Thunder" and "Late Night" albums went with it. So, not much romantical music on there. So I said, what's a fairly sleepy album? TBF was the winner. It was good for that kind of drinking by the fire thing. Even Just the Rain (which I've never liked) and TBF (the song) fit in really well with that mood.

So, I have a new appreciation.

That'd explain why the women here seem to overwhelmingly like that record compared to the guys.

Just sayin'...

If I wanted that type of fucking music I'd throw in Air Supply (and I like them for the record). Journey was a rock band until Perry took creative control (ROR and TBF). Then they became Air Journey. Hey, somebody tell Nike. Would make a cool shoe name!

Well yeah, see, you're getting my post Dan. BUT- I'D NEVER OWN A FRIGGIN' AIR SUPPLY ALBUM, so I had to go for something similar. Late Night and Beyond the Thunder are great albums for this....

[journey361]

Saint John he did take control your right, no question. But heres where you seem to struggle. SP's voice on ROR was so unreal and so much a term i like to use as LEGACY, that the project made it, and made it big time. Half the world are gonna ask to hear happy to give on their death bed sung off that record .

[journey361]

Oh yea, and they ain't gonna want to hear Adam Lambert singing it either. +1

[Saint John]

Saint John he did take control your right, no question. But heres where you seem to struggle. SP's voice on ROR was so unreal and so much a term i like to use as LEGACY, that the project made it, and made it big time. Half the world are gonna ask to hear happy to give on their death bed sung off that record .

I've said it before and I'll say it again, ROR was pretty much a complete failure. Def Leppard and Bon Jovi pumped out rock albums featuring ballads (something Journey did prior to Nostrildamus taking over creative control) and Journey pumped out a ballads album featuring a few rock songs. Hysteria and Slippery When Wet sold over 10 million each and ROR sold 3 million. The decision to shake up the winning formula was wrong. Period. had they kept Ross and Smitty and stayed the course as far as Herbie's vision goes I'm quite sure they would have equalled what Def Leppard and Bon Jovi did...especially considering they were more popular and more talented.

[journey361]

I hear ya Saint John, and we've had this discussion before. And i'm telling you what you say may indeed be true. But you of all people know without a doubt, his voice (Nothing to do with the songs on ROR, only texture and tone) was as Brian May had put it, "One in a million". This is my argument, his voice was tops and it wasn't his best. It was different and older with time, wear and tear if you will. And no other earthly individual could pull it off. That's why he's No. 1 in my Poll.

[Jana]

I love pop, but it's sad to me about ROR because it could have been a fantastic album with Neal's influence. Perry sounds wonderful with the richer sound and so many of the songs have great lyrics and melody and soaring vocals, which I love. But some of that funky bass or keyboards or maybe even Neal, I don't know, but on certain songs it's dated sounding and ruins it in places for me with that peppy poppy beat. It's like I want to get to the great song, but I have to listen to some annoying intro like on Suzanne. I can go back and listen to '80s pop that doesn sound dated but certain parts of ROR do. So even if they left this as a pop album, it could have been better. But if they had adhered a little more to some rock elements, it would have been wonderful.

[Don]

ROR was thenail needed to end the band's dominance in Arena rock and bury them.

Hysteria. Pyromania and Slippery When Wet are the holy trinity of Arena Rock albums, they just crushed everything before them.

[S2M]

ROR was that last nail needed to end the band's dominance in Arena rock.

Truthfully, even if ROR was a huge success....when Hysteria came out it would have spelled the end of Journey's dominance anyway. Talent aside....

[Saint John]

ROR was that last nail needed to end the band's dominance in Arena rock.

And I think that's exactly what a certain someone wanted...so he could begin his solo career. Funny how someone could be "toast" and then record an album about a year later. Then tour without the rest of the band but suddenly want back in when they're ready to tour. What a complete asshole. "Anyway" was just a front. Worked well, though!

[Saint John]

ROR was that last nail needed to end the band's dominance in Arena rock.

Truthfully, even if ROR was a huge success....when Hysteria came out it would have spelled the end of Journey's dominance anyway. Talent aside....

Not necessarily. They could have co-existed just as Slippery When Wet and Hysteria did. Both did remarkably well. It may have just been shared dominance.

[journey361]

Saint John, which Journey album sold more, was it ESP493? Any1 know.

[Don]

Saint John, which Journey album sold more, was it ESP493? Any1 know.

RIAA numbers

Escape 9x platinum
Frontiers 6x platinum
ROR 2x platinum ( same as Street Talk, what a coincidence)

[madsplash]

ROR was that last nail needed to end the band's dominance in Arena rock.

And I think that's exactly what a certain someone wanted...so he could begin his solo career. Funny how someone could be "toast" and then record an album about a year later. Then tour without the rest of the band but suddenly want back in when they're ready to tour. What a complete asshole. "Anyway" was just a front. Worked well, though!

A year later is long enough for some, who are you to judge how long someone needs to get "it" back? And he toured 6 freakin' years later, so that shoots down that stupid argument. And of you think that he wanted back in because Journey would have ever toured with Kevin friggin Chalfant(who can't carry SP's microphone cord), you're delusional. First of all, it NEVER would have happened and it would have been a monumental failure if it did.

Yea, SP's the asshole.

[portland]

ROR was that last nail needed to end the band's dominance in Arena rock.

And I think that's exactly what a certain someone wanted...so he could begin his solo career. Funny how someone could be "toast" and then record an album about a year later. Then tour without the rest of the band but suddenly want back in when they're ready to tour. What a complete asshole. "Anyway" was just a front. Worked well, though!

A year later is long enough for some, who are you to judge how long someone needs to get "it" back? And he toured 6 freakin' years later, so that shoots down that stupid argument. And of you think that he wanted back in because Journey would have ever toured with Kevin friggin Chalfant(who can't carry SP's microphone cord), you're delusional. First of all, it NEVER would have happened and it would have been a monumental failure if it did.

Yea, SP's the asshole.

You just have to love this place........it's like watching a tennis match......your turn

[Chubby321]

Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

Worst Journey song pre-1998.

Possibly, but still better than anything new since 1998.

Are you kidding me? Arrival smokes that goofy song.
But you're not about to give any credit to anything that isn't Perry, so I'm not surpised.

I'll give credit. The playing on the stuff after SP has still been great, but just like some say that Perry's songs suffer without the help of Neal and Jon, it plays both ways. They haven't written 1 great song without SP. The last great Journey song was When You Love A Woman.

With SP, Journey was like great sex. Without him, the new stuff is musical masturbation. All the notes are there, but it sure as hell ain't the same.

Yep.

that was the most explanitive thing said about the new stuff to date. OWNED!

Not me, I find more pleasure with masturbation rather than real sex.

[Saint John]

ROR was that last nail needed to end the band's dominance in Arena rock.

And I think that's exactly what a certain someone wanted...so he could begin his solo career. Funny how someone could be "toast" and then record an album about a year later. Then tour without the rest of the band but suddenly want back in when they're ready to tour. What a complete asshole. "Anyway" was just a front. Worked well, though!

A year later is long enough for some, who are you to judge how long someone needs to get "it" back? And he toured 6 freakin' years later, so that shoots down that stupid argument. And of you think that he wanted back in because Journey would have ever toured with Kevin friggin Chalfant(who can't carry SP's microphone cord), you're delusional. First of all, it NEVER would have happened and it would have been a monumental failure if it did.

Yea, SP's the asshole.

I agree that Chalfant can't carry Steve Perry's mic stand. But they had begun booking dates and were just about to hit the road. Do some research. Perry called at the last hour because he knew he had one more album to fulfill to be contractually released. He recorded it and bailed, just like he planned all along. There was never going to be a TBF tour...never. Herbie was the only one smart enough to see that.