OT: Rough day in the Pop culture world

[Zan]

First Ed McMahon, then Farrah Faucett, then, omg, Michael freakin' Jackson.

Pop took a hard hit this past 24 hours.

I am extra grateful today that we still have most of our boys around to entertain us, make us smile, or make us grimace. It could be a lot worse. Seriously.

RIP Ed, Farrah, and Michael.

[Rockwriter]

First Ed McMahon, then Farrah Faucett, then, omg, Michael freakin' Jackson.

Pop took a hard hit this past 24 hours.

I am extra grateful today that we still have most of our boys around to entertain us, make us smile, or make us grimace. It could be a lot worse. Seriously.

RIP Ed, Farrah, and Michael.

When I was a kid I had an uncle who was in the music business. Nickname was "Animal" in the biz. We called him Uncle Animal, LOL. He started as a roadie for the Stones (Mick Jagger gave him the nickname in fact), worked for The Eagles for years, then went on to be a stage manager for a number of bands. When I was thirteen he was one of the stage managers for the Michael Jackson Victory Tour, and my family got to go to the second night of the tour in a huge stadium in Knoxville and see the show from the family's section. I sat directly behind LaToya (back before anyone knew who she was), and two people down from Sugar Ray Leonard, who was their guest that night. I have to say that although not really my taste, it was an amazing show, and Michael Jackson was a truly talented guy who was also very well-liked by the crew. Not so with all of his brothers, nor opening act Chris Bliss. This was before he got so strange.

Anyway, seeing this news today made me remember that night. Great, fond memory. I always think what a sad irony it is that a person who brought so much joy to so many was apparently so unhappy himself. Seems like a short, tragic life in a lot of ways.


Sterling

[Babyblue]

It is a sad day for all for sure.

[bugsymalone]

Michael J. was a enormous talent who sadly was not able to emotionally handle his life outside of the gifts he was given as a performer and a recording artist. But oh what a musical (and video) legacy he left!

Farrah Fawcett was able to move beyond the pinup into legitimate acting and showed astounding strength in her struggle against the disease that finally took her life.

Ed McMahon was so skilled at what he did alongside Johnny Carson that no one was aware how difficult a job he had and how perfectly he handled it.

No question the entertainment world was rocked by the loss of these three who made lasting impressions, all in different areas, all remembered fondly for different reasons.


Bugsy

[sadie65]

Each brought a uniqueness and had their light shine brightly. Each experienced great heights and terrible lows that seem such a large part of fame. Each left their mark, and each should remembered for those marks.

[DeeJaySTYX]

It's very sad to see the passing of these three entertainment Icons.. Ed and Farrah was somewhat expected because of their illnesses, but Michael, thats, Ah, Shocking.. My best wishes and prayers to each of the families..

[Zan]

You know, for a long time, I've always found myself wondering how Michael found the strength to go on after all the trials and tribulations he has had to face. I hold no opinion as to whether he was what he was accused of being, as it seems everyone involved was of questionable character, but regardless of all that, he was the epitome of rags to riches to rags - and it really did seem he had nobody that really truly CARED for him. Everyone around him wanted something. Such a tragic life. Is it any wonder his health was failing and life took him so early?

Still, I can't help but feel shocked and a little sad. I can't even begin to imagine how hard it was to BE Michael Jackson. Goodness, the media is STILL treating him like some freak show trophy to gain ratings. My friend said they were showing his body bag on television this evening - and just prior to dying with the tubes hanging out of him. I sincerely hope that if there's a heaven, he's found it and can finally rest in peace.

(not meant to take away from Farrah and Ed. They both had their share of struggles as well. Here's to eternal peace, once and for all.)

[Ash]

I hate to interrupt everyone's romantic mood and all - but does anyone remember that this "man" was a child molester who paid off families? Innocent people don't do that.

Talented? Sure... but that doesn't make him a good human being.

[classicstyxfan]

none of us know the absolute truth regarding MJ's personal life, but if any of the accusations / innuendo happen to be true.....it puts him in the same league as the catholic priests.

I strongly suspect we'll be hearing a lot of (true or not ) Stories about Michaelv in the weeks and months to come.


What a great voice he had growing up, the boy could carry the melody on a pop song like no other !

I cared less for his vocal style post puberty, but admit that Thriller was an amazing CD, great songwriting.

[bugsymalone]

none of us know the absolute truth regarding MJ's personal life, but if any of the accusations / innuendo happen to be true.....it puts him in the same league as the catholic priests.

I strongly suspect we'll be hearing a lot of (true or not ) Stories about Michaelv in the weeks and months to come.


What a great voice he had growing up, the boy could carry the melody on a pop song like no other !

I cared less for his vocal style post puberty, but admit that Thriller was an amazing CD, great songwriting.

I agree about the stories and true or not. His complete weirdness as an adult will lend itself to anything and everything and I suspect a lot of truth will lie behind what we hear or what is written.

Bugsy

[classicstyxfan]

I hope the tabloids dont go crazy with the situation......but I expect to have some interesting headlines to read in the checkout line at the supermarket soon.

[Ash]

you should see the jokes!

[Zan]

I hate to interrupt everyone's romantic mood and all - but does anyone remember that this "man" was a child molester who paid off families? Innocent people don't do that.

Talented? Sure... but that doesn't make him a good human being.

Do you have some sort of insider info that none of us do - I mean, aside from your always astute keen sense of observation? Please share it if so. Were you there? He settled by advice of his lawyers, and there is no way he could have withstood a trial of that nature (which would still be going today, most likely)

I said before that I have no opinion as to whether he was any of the things he was accused of being because I, like you YOU, Ash, just DON'T KNOW. Wat I DO know is that he was surrounded by people who took advantage of him financially, including the white trash that was the more current "mother" of the allegedly molested little boy.

Whatever. reasoning with you is like nailing jello to a tree.

[sadie65]

To add to this, what does it say about us as a society that we continue to build people in the public world up to mythic, epic proportions, only to salivate when they demonstrate that they have the capacity to be less than our ideals? Admittedly, one is responsible (or should be) for how they live their life, but boy we do our part in creating this mayhem. We watched a talented entertainer derail, and we bought every juicy detail. I don't ascribe to his life choices, and I cannot know what was in his mind. I won't deify him. I will only say that we seem to thrive on building up, then tearing down, then building up these people incessantly. We did the same with Farrah. Loved her, then mocked her and laughed at her when she did Letterman and her reality show. Certainly we wanted all the details of her relationship with Ryan and her sons troubles sell magazines. Now, all we discuss is her bravery (admittedly she demonstrated great strength in facing her cancer). We don't take any responsibility for our role in it. But we will read the next tabloid story, the next Tweet, the next post in an on-line forum. Whatever these people were, I wish their loved ones some peace. It's a world I don't pretend to understand, but they were people under it all. Flawed, absolutely. Who of us isn't?

[Zan]

I think that might have been your best post ever, Sadie.

And the more I think about this "child molester" thing, what kind of mother would allow her young son to spend the night with a man (repeatedly) who had ever been accused of molestation in the first place. Forget the prior accusations: WHAT KIND OF PARENT thinks it's acceptable to let their prepubescent son have slumber parties with a 30/40 something year old man??? I'll tell ya what kind of parent: Either one dumb-as-fuck one, or one who smells money.

[Abitaman]

Whatever. reasoning with you is like nailing jello to a tree.[/color][/b]

You can nail Jello to a tree?

[Ash]

I think that might have been your best post ever, Sadie.

And the more I think about this "child molester" thing, what kind of mother would allow her young son to spend the night with a man (repeatedly) who had ever been accused of molestation in the first place. Forget the prior accusations: WHAT KIND OF PARENT thinks it's acceptable to let their prepubescent son have slumber parties with a 30/40 something year old man??? I'll tell ya what kind of parent: Either one dumb-as-fuck one, or one who smells money.

Wow.... standing up for a human freakshow like Michael Jackson.

http://beemp3.com/index.php?q=Michael+j ... ing&st=all

But I forgot Zan, It's "OK" for you to have an opinion about something and express your support but SCREW those who disagree with you. Lighten the hell up.

[Zan]

Lighten the hell up.

Oh, of course. Fire away with your unfounded accusations of the dead guy in a thread that was meant to be sincere and sentimental, just don't mention Suzanne's blond clip on hair anywhere or anytime!


You are hilarious.

[Ash]

Lighten the hell up.

Oh, of course. Fire away with your unfounded accusations of the dead guy in a thread that was meant to be sincere and sentimental, just don't mention Suzanne's blond clip on hair anywhere or anytime!


You are hilarious.

And I bet you think OJ is innocent too.

unfounded? now THAT is hilarious.

and what does suzanne have to do with anything in this thread?

The sad truth is that Michael Jackson doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence with Ed McMahon for Farrah Fawcett. Those two were made of much better stock than Michael Jackson.

You can appreciate his art, but there is NOTHING to appreciate about his life.

[Zan]

And I bet you think OJ is innocent too.

I have to wonder sometimes if you are actually incapable of reading comprehension, or if this selective obtuseness is strictly for my benefit. lol... I said (twice now and this is the third time) that I don't have an opinion on his guilt or innocence - I wasn't there...but that I feel he did have a rough life and that I hoped he was now at peace, at least. Period.

unfounded? now THAT is hilarious.

So, you do have some sort of insider knowledge in the matter? I apologize if you have a sound basis for your claims that he was indeed, without doubt, a child molester. If your "proof" is that he settled out of court the second time around, I can document many cases where non guilty parties have settled out of court to avoid lengthy (and costly) trials if you'd really like me to. Shoot, I could probably spend the day with just Disney lawsuits

and what does suzanne have to do with anything in this thread?

Nothing. She's a lovely woman. But when I'm told to "Lighten up" by the king of rigidity, I feel it's necessary to point out the irony. She was only one example. I can site more, again, if you'd like.

The sad truth is that Michael Jackson doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence with Ed McMahon for Farrah Fawcett. Those two were made of much better stock than Michael Jackson.

You can appreciate his art, but there is NOTHING to appreciate about his life.

Well, clearly "truth" is in the eye of the beholder, and clearly you & I have many different "truths" that we cling to. I don't necessarily disagree with you on this one, but I can't say it's "true" either. Only those who know what went on behind closed doors will ever know that. That's all I'm saying.

That said, I'll agree that MJ was certainly nothing to mold one's life by. Be it real or imagined, the man had serious problems that prevented him from having a normal life (or as normal as possible), and for that, I felt a little bit sorry for him. I don't see that as "appreciating" his life at all - just stating that his was a sad existence, which, IMO, it was.

As for his music legacy, I can take some and leave some, but there is no denying he was majorly influential for sooooooo many people over many generations. At least we can agree there. Either way, pop culture did take a huge hit this week, and in spite of the derailment of this thread, I stand by what I said before: That we are still very lucky fans to have Dennis DeYoung AND members of Styx still with us, regardless of your "political views" on the band. It could be worse. I was reminded of that this week.

[DerriD]

I'm staying the hell away from this one out of fear that Zan might come beat me up.

[classicstyxfan]

Im waiting for a rebuttal from Ash that starts off "..........Zan you ignorant slut.........."


this could get cyber-bloody yet !

[Zan]

Im waiting for a rebuttal from Ash that starts off "..........Zan you ignorant slut.........."


this could get cyber-bloody yet !

I've been in a thread like that! lol

(and I've been called worse)

BRING IT ON, HOMEBOY!

(and you, Derri - I might still beat you up anyway)

Kisses to all (well, most)

[sadie65]

So Ya Gotta Be Starting Something here dontcha Derri and Classic?

Will it be a Thriller or will it be Bad?

This thread has definitely gone...Off the Wall.

[classicstyxfan]

Love Ya Zan................you too Ash !


Carry on.

[Zan]

A friend of mine posted this terrific article on Facebook, so I'm sharing it here. Despite all the different arrays of opinions on MJ himself, I think it sums up very nicely the impact of pop culture, and why we, as humans find it so exceptionally valid.

http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?s ... ng&u=wKEG6



Michael Jackson vs. the news
There's meaningful, there's epic and there's revolutionary. What about all three?

You already know which kind of event, which sort of dramatic happening, which kind of ill-fated death and historic melodrama we as a culture value far, far more than any other. You already know which will hold us in thrall for days and months on end, which causes more tears and heartbreak and which kind of event will spawn books and movies and tributes and earnest memories by the million until we ourselves pass on to the hereafter, smiling and dancing and humming a desperately catchy tune.

Hint: it's not the new Iran revolution. It's not, say, the young and idealistic Neda Agha Soltan, that iconic Iranian protester shot to death by militiamen on the streets of Tehran and then made into a near-perfect martyr, mostly because she was beautiful and photogenic and light-skinned and her horrific death was caught on video and spread all over YouTube, and therefore makes ideal, bloodstained copy for news agencies and political movements worldwide.

It's not President Obama's historic push for health care reform, currently being beaten to death in various congressional back rooms. It's certainly not yet another aging white Republican politician weeping to the TV cameras about his love of God and family and irresistible Argentinean vaginas. Like that ever truly matters.

Who the hell cares about any of that? Who needs it right now? Pop culture just died. Didn't you hear?

First, it was the beauty. How many countless millions of feverish boyhood fantasies were spawned by 1970's Farrah Fawcett? How many of our admittedly vapid and slightly sexist, yet somehow also wondrous and utterly divine ideas of lust and desire and perfect all-American prettiness were inspired by her uncomplicated sparkle, that Barbie-doll hair?

I am unashamed to say, I had that poster on my wall. Most every male I know of that generation had that poster on his wall. It was some sort of boyhood law, a requirement, a key to the Kingdom of Testosterone. Chances are you don't even need to click that link to know which poster I'm talking about. Chances are you can close your eyes and see it in a split second, and sigh. Sex and beauty and Americana and teeth and sex and hope and hairdryers and carefree love and bathing suits and shimmer and sex. Farrah made it all possible.

But even that glorious, soft-focus icon is no match for the King of Pop. There is no contest.

It's nearly impossible to grasp, really. Michael Jackson's impact on the popular culture at large cannot really be measured, though many will try, using every gauge of success and influence we can think of: record sales, money earned, global reach, hit singles, controversy, tabloid coverage, endless comparisons to Elvis and The Beatles, you name it.

But it's all sort of futile. After all, the raw data of Michael Jackson pales in comparison to the truly significant numbers, like how many countless millions of people worldwide have danced and sung along and found pleasure in an MJ tune in their lives, can recite lyrics and mimic the dance moves and tell you exactly where they were when they first witnessed the moonwalk, the glove, "Billie Jean," the "Thriller" video.

How many millions rushed home on hearing the news of his sudden death and put on "Off the Wall" and cranked it full volume, and swam in the memories, and are still doing so, right this moment? They say pop culture is generally meaningless and transitory and has no lasting effect, lowers the bar of discourse and poisons the intellect, is the junk food of the human soul. All very true. Mostly.

Let us pose the impossible question: How do we measure what's truly important? How do we parse and separate and decide? There is bloodshed and death and revolution happening, right now, in the streets of a fiery foreign country. More than one, actually. There is meltdown and oppression and disease and countless huge-hearted people working against impossible odds to improve the lives of others in immeasurably honest, profound ways.

And yet over here is someone like Michael Jackson, his music, his dancing, his genius, his odd persona, well, it's like it's some different realm entirely. Strip away the cheese and the tabloid and the bizarre, freakish spectacle of his rather tragic life, and what's left?

Well, you might say it's a kind of sheer happiness, a kind of freedom like you can't even speak about because it's not really an intellectual thing. It's just a simple joy. It's also fairly essential to our survival.

You are left with the image, the feeling, of hundreds of millions of humans laughing and smiling and dancing with friends and lovers, all to one person's gift of music. Put it this way: billions of humans disagree about the nature of God. But everyone knows what the moonwalk is.

One final, tiny example: As I was writing this column, I received, in my in-box, a mere handful of hours after the news of MJ's death hit the newswires and just before every radio station, music blog, music fan, music television in the known universe switched gears in an instant and started playing MJ nonstop in memoriam, with sequined flags at half-mast, I received a very strange invitation.

It's to something called the "Scandinavian Mid-Summer Party" in New York. It is, apparently, "a night of upscale networking, partying and bowling (!) with professionals and businessmen eager to enjoy this traditional Scandinavian celebration; members of the Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian, Danish and Estonian business and social community in the Tri-state area will join us for the night."

Well gosh, thanks for thinking of me, I thought.

There are images of idyllic smiling blond Danish girls in pigtails and scarves and perfect IKEA teeth. They say "Mid-Summer is the most popular time of the year in Scandinavia. Houses in Scandinavia are decorated with hearths and flower garlands; people then dance while listening to traditional folk songs known to all." It says some other stuff too, but my eyes had already glazed over.

Well, almost. Just as my finger hovered over the Delete key, something caught my eye.

The invitation had been altered. The organizers had apparently changed the description of the evening's events. No more Scandinavian folk music. Along with the billiards and bowling and drunk Estonian businessmen, they will now "pay our respects to the King of Pop by playing his amazing music all night." They asked all guests to bring an iPod with favorite MJ songs. You know, just like they did in the old country of Scandinavia. Just like they're doing across the entire planet, as you read these words, right now.

Now that's revolutionary.

[bugsymalone]

I had a number of friends, both black and white, who used to say: "I liked Michael when he was black." Me too. I was a fan of those early videos he did, prior to altering his looks to alien proportions. I loved the early Jackson 5 tunes. Ditto most of Michael's music until it, too, became a distorted mess.

I choose to remember the talented little boy, handsome and black, but every time an image of his recent years pops up, I just cringe for all it represents.

Last comment I am going to make about this whole subject.


Bugsy

[DerriD]

So Ya Gotta Be Starting Something here dontcha Derri and Classic?

Will it be a Thriller or will it be Bad?

This thread has definitely gone...Off the Wall.

Ouch!

[classicstyxfan]

So Ya Gotta Be Starting Something here dontcha Derri and Classic?

Will it be a Thriller or will it be Bad?

This thread has definitely gone...Off the Wall.

is it possible to groan and laugh simultaneously ???

[FishinMagician]

And I bet you think OJ is innocent too.

I have to wonder sometimes if you are actually incapable of reading comprehension, or if this selective obtuseness is strictly for my benefit. lol... I said (twice now and this is the third time) that I don't have an opinion on his guilt or innocence - I wasn't there...but that I feel he did have a rough life and that I hoped he was now at peace, at least. Period.

unfounded? now THAT is hilarious.

So, you do have some sort of insider knowledge in the matter? I apologize if you have a sound basis for your claims that he was indeed, without doubt, a child molester. If your "proof" is that he settled out of court the second time around, I can document many cases where non guilty parties have settled out of court to avoid lengthy (and costly) trials if you'd really like me to. Shoot, I could probably spend the day with just Disney lawsuits

and what does suzanne have to do with anything in this thread?

Nothing. She's a lovely woman. But when I'm told to "Lighten up" by the king of rigidity, I feel it's necessary to point out the irony. She was only one example. I can site more, again, if you'd like.

The sad truth is that Michael Jackson doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence with Ed McMahon for Farrah Fawcett. Those two were made of much better stock than Michael Jackson.

You can appreciate his art, but there is NOTHING to appreciate about his life.

Well, clearly "truth" is in the eye of the beholder, and clearly you & I have many different "truths" that we cling to. I don't necessarily disagree with you on this one, but I can't say it's "true" either. Only those who know what went on behind closed doors will ever know that. That's all I'm saying.

That said, I'll agree that MJ was certainly nothing to mold one's life by. Be it real or imagined, the man had serious problems that prevented him from having a normal life (or as normal as possible), and for that, I felt a little bit sorry for him. I don't see that as "appreciating" his life at all - just stating that his was a sad existence, which, IMO, it was.

As for his music legacy, I can take some and leave some, but there is no denying he was majorly influential for sooooooo many people over many generations. At least we can agree there. Either way, pop culture did take a huge hit this week, and in spite of the derailment of this thread, I stand by what I said before: That we are still very lucky fans to have Dennis DeYoung AND members of Styx still with us, regardless of your "political views" on the band. It could be worse. I was reminded of that this week.

hey bring this to the journey forum lol