TWO TYPES OF FANS-CLEMENS, DEYOUNG& STYX

[yogi]

First off, I am kind of going back to the 21st Century Live Assembly Line for most of this post. GREAT GREAT response Lord. I really mean that!! Froy had written " wow this is amazing everyone except Yogi seems to be jumping ship" Froy was referring to that it seems like everyone but me is jumping off of the Styx ship. Classic later wrote after praising Lord for his GREAT post that " Dennis went out like Roger Clemens( except Dennis got cut instead of retiring)". I want to comment on both of these posts. Froy, I will NEVER jump off the Styx ship. Just as I will NEVER jump off the fact that I am a huge fan of Dennis. I now want to talk about two types of fans. The first fan is a Die Hard Boston Red Sox Fan, I mean this guy lives and breathes Boston Red Sox baseball. His favorite player is Roger Clemens. He has watched Roger pitch the Sox to the brink of the title in 1986. He marveled at Rogers three Cy Young Awards with Boston, and he admires everthing about The Rocket. Guess what then happens? Red Sox management makes a business decision. They feel Roger is past his prime and they let him go. Toronto is now the new home of Roger Clemens. With the money the Red Sox save on not re-signing Clemens they go out and get Pedro Martinez. This fan is VERY disappointed in managements decision to let Roger walk. But is this fan still a DIE Hard Red Sox Fan???? Damn Straight he is!! Does he still follow Rogers career and root for him to win every game except the games against Boston??? Damn Sraight he does!! The second type of fan feels exactly the same as the first fan in regards to the Red Sox and Roger Clemens. The difference is,.... that he is a MUCH bigger Roger Clemens fan than he EVER was a Red Sox fan. He doesnt even realize this until Roger is no longer a member of Red Sox. He doesnt care that the Sox acquired Pedro with the money they saved on Clemens. He doesnt care that they still put an excellent product on the field, maybe not as good as 1986 but excellent none the less. This fan HATES the Red Sox for getting rid of The Rocket. Now, he hopes the Sox lose EVERY game they play, and wishes only for the success of Roger and his new teams. He is even so bitter toward Red Sox management he actually wonders if the Sox would re-acquire Roger if he would even cheer for the Red Sox then. I know I will ALWAYS relate much much better to the first type of fan. I've always been a team type of person. Where do all of you fit in this 'CLASSIC' analogy???? Lastly, In regards to Glen. There sure is a lot of speculation going on around here, disregarding ALL of the statements from the ACTUAL players as to why Glen 'really' left Styx. If none of the members show up for Glen's Christmas Fundraiser then I may believe there is a little more to his departure than he or the band is letting on. Those going to see DDY tonight ENJOY!!! Glad the Board is back up and running. Thanks Andrew!!

[classicstyxfan]

I wonder how Red Sox fans #1 and #2 would feel if the Red Sox kept sending Carlton Fisk Fred Lynn, Bill Lee and Luis Tiant out there in 2003 ? those guys were great in their prime, which was the 70's....but don't you think they'd want the Sox to put new, fresh players out there who can compete with the young stars of today? If the Sox were to keep sending these same guys out there Year after year, changing only the design and color of their jersies, they'd eventually alienate their entire fan base...... does that example remind you of any bands we all know well ?

My Clemens / DeYoung comparison was simply stating that both may have left their organization before the inevitable decline that all atheletes and musicians eventually face.....I'm not saying there is no good music left in Styx ( or that there is, but only with Dennis ) But to hoodwink your fans by releasing the same live versions of the same songs over and over, suggests the low fuel light may be coming on for the boys. Personally , I HOPE that's not the case....both DDY and Styx can prove me wrong with their future actions.....namely releases that have something new and of a high quality worthy of their legacy.

There may be alittle of Yogi fan #2 in me, but I think there's also quite a bit of fan #1 too......

[yogi]

Classic... Ive read your response a couple of times and here is what I get out of it. It sounds to me like you think bands like Styx should maybe shut it down. Is that what you are saying?? I think the millions of fans worldwide that have gotten to see them live since 1999 would argue that you are wrong. I read a few weeks ago that The Main Event was the 26th grossing concert event of last summer. The Arch Allies Tour, and The Tour with Bad Company, and Billy Squire both were in the top 50 grossing tours, back in 2000, and 2001. Styx was one of only 9 bands or artists to be in the top 50 in back to back tour years(2000-2001). With the Main Event coming in at # 26 last summer thats even more impressive. Thats three straight years of VERY VERY popular touring. I truly feel Styx has replaced their Bill Lee's, Fred Lynn's, and Bruce Hurst's. The addition of Glen Burtnick did breathe NEW life into the band. You can say what you want but Glen was EXCELLENT when he replaced Tommy on tour back in 1991. Type two fan did rear it's ugly head back then too. He has EVEN been GREATER since pretty much replacing Chuck since '99. Styx had to replaced THEIR Clemens(Deyoung) since he had spread himself sooo thin(pithcing in winter ball)( Hunchback) he wound up on the DL(sick) , then he refused to pitch(sing) on the road. They replaced Clemens ( Deyoung ) with Martinez ( Gowan ) that is when many fans did go type two fan on Styx. Thats fine with me because I have ALWAYS known there are two type of fans. I will always remember a friend of mines dad hating the Minnesota Twins because they got rid of Rod Carew. Their family went from season ticket holders every year to North Star fans because of one trade. Sound familier???? Styx is trying to stay fresh, and also stay true to their base fans Cyclorama, and the endless touring proves this. Where a problem may lie is that the type two fan NEVER gave the band a real legit chance. As for the bitching about all the live releases, BLAME the label!! Styx has had THREE real releases since 1999. Arch Allies with REO , Styxworld, and Cyclorama. If you didnt like those so be it, you can bitch about those three releases. As for CMC's Yesterday and Today, Extended Versions, At The River's Edge, and 21st Century Live they are NOT 'real' band releases. They are label releases pure and simple. It costs the label virtually zero, and they can make a small profit from releases like this. WELCOME to America!!! A&M has also done this with their Styx 25th Anniversity CD, The Millennium Collection, Rockers, etc. RCA bought out Wooden Nickle and did this over and over with Styx's first four albums, plus The Best Of Styx. Its part of the industry. As a consumer you do NOT have to purchase any of these, so why bitch about it. Some people ( I have not a clue who ) may actually like these type of releases. Someone must be purchasing them because most of the record labels do this.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Yogi, you know what, you can blame the record company but maybe, just maybe, it might have everything to do with the fact that the Cyclorama (Carrot Styx album) didn't sell. The record company needs to make it's money back. The band did have options as evidence by "Rockers" so your point isn't really valid. Like them all you want, that's fine, but if your trying to make a point, make one with merit.

I'm not impressed with the 26th highest band performance, nor the fact that just to get there they needed the help for example: Journey, REO, Bad Company, etc. You speak of the "millions" of fans, you can get to the "millions" of fans by constantly playing the same venues by playing them over and over and over and over again. But if you do the math, I guarantee you, it's not in the "millions". There's just no way.

It's fine that you like them, no one's arguing with you. It's fine to say that you're a fan of Dennis, no one's arguing with you. So why do you feel the need to constantly post that you're a fan of both.

[yogi]

I totally DONT agree with the songs selected for the Rockers CD. It was totally wrong to leave ALL of Dennis's great rockin songs off of that CD. I blame the current band for that, I also blame A&M Records , and since I dont know the situation with A&M and Dennis I cant comment. I read that the split between Styx and A&M was VERY VERY bitter and that Dennis and Dennis alone was acting on behalf of the band. As for millions of fans I should have written " Styx has played live for OVER a million people since 1999". Thank you for pointing that out. Finally, Dennis has needed to use an orchestra for many of his shows since 1999. Finally, You sound angry am I right? What Type of fan are you??????? When did you actually realize that you really were not a Styx fan but just a DDY fan ?? Does this bother you?? You seem agitated by this fact. Nothing wrong with being a Type 2 fan!!

[SuiteMadameBlue]

No, I'm not angry about anything on this board or anyone here. I was very angry when my favorite all time band, a band that I grew up with for 30 years broke up almost 4 years ago. I don't think they'll ever get back together. I think the ONLY way this would be possible is if they are inducted into the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame. I doubt that any "arena" rock bands will be inducted (Styx, Journey, REO, Rush, etc), which is really sad for most of us on these boards. I don't think the new Styx will ever invite Dennis back into the group. From all the interviews that I've read, especially this past year, JY sounds so bitter against Dennis and the comments that he makes.

I personally do not care for the new Styx, I don't care for their new music or to see or hear them in concert. I don't care for the comments that have been made by them in articles, radio interviews, tv interviews and a couple of their websites recently.

I really enjoy seeing Dennis in concert. I've been lucky to see him perform with his band and also with the orchestra. I enjoy his music with Styx, his solo work, Hunchback & 10 on Broadway. I have been very fortunate to talk with him briefly a few times after concerts the past 10 years. He has always taken the time to talk and sign a few items. He's very friendly, funny and very positive with everything. This is MY point of view on Dennis.

I realized I was a Dennis fan back in 1999 when I saw the "new" Styx perform, it just wasn't the same without Dennis. Especially since I seen them perform in a cornfield instead of the usual arena or nice theatre. Then in 2000 when I saw BTM I knew that I didn't any part of the "new" Styx.

As for the "Rockers" cd. JY and Tommy personally picked out which songs they wanted on the cd. MY feelings are that JY and Tommy are trying really hard to make people forget that Dennis was part of Styx, the band that he created.

Just my viewpoint

[classicstyxfan]

Whew, Yogi...........I really must have hit a nerve, that was quite the impassioned response. A couple of my personal opinions offered to keep the discussion going.

1. You cant compare Gowan to Pedro Martinez....Pedro is a bonafied superstar in Baseball....again, in my opinion, Gowan would be more of a Tim Wakefield.....a respectable major league pitcher, but his fatball leaves something to be desired.

2. Do I think Styx should hang it up ? when the day comes that they arent able to manufacture new music befitting the legacy, they should go where all old bands go to fade away....the nostalgia tour circuit. Are they there yet ? I dont think so, as I have said many many times, I Liked Cyclorama...bring on some more new music for 2004 of similar quality.

3. As for your "blame the label, not the band" argument, there may be SOME validity to it....BUT.......the Band shouldn't stand for them re-releasing the EXACT same cuts over and over...hell, they could AT LEAST give us a recording from a different show. It hurts the Bands reputation and legacy, and JY and Tommy should take a page out of the DDY playbook and go a few rounds with the label when they pull crap like that.

4. Is there a place in the world for Classic Rock band tours, sure there is, but I'm not impressed by the stats you cited. I would be much more impressed if they would rank shows by the average number of tickets sold per stop. If a band plays 300 stops per year, they will no doubt make one of these lists.

I dont wish failure on the new band, really, I dont.....I have very high standards and demand alot from any band using the Styx name.

[yogi]

Classic,
You didnt hit a nerve at all..... honest, what you did with your post on the 21st Century Live Assembly Line was wake up a thought that I didnt know was there. You wrote " heres a thought open for anyone to chime in on" then you went with the Clemens/ Deyoung analogy. I REALLY think your analogy is BRILLIANT, based on how I view your analogy.There are two types of fans, and individual bias REALLY REALLY comes into play with many of these fans. The example I gave of my friends dad and Rod Carew is a perfect example. Froy is another example. I would love to know how he supports Journey now, and not Styx. Dennis's and Steves's medical situations paralled each other sooo much it was scary. Yet, today, Froy will fly across the country to see Journey, and he totally hates Styx. Why???? The answer is easy. Froy is a Type 2 fan. Froy is a HUGE fan of Dennis Deyoung, and Froy doesnt have near the same respect for Steve Perry. It's kind of like if the Minnesota Twins would of traded Cesar Tovar, instead of Rod Carew my friends dad would of still been a huge Twins fan, and my buddy's family would of still had season tickets. You were 100 % correct in the analogy. Again, there is nothing wrong with being a Type Two Fan. Classic, You are The Man!!!!

[classicstyxfan]

Yogi, what fun would this board be without food and baseball analogies anyways ?

I hold Dennis to the same high standards I hold Styx to....in fact, even without hearing it, I am a bit dissapointed to find out Dennis is only releasing 3 new compositions on his new CD....what's it been ? 5 years since he put anything new out ? ( not counting "A Love foretold, that is........)

I am glad he's using an orchestra and choirs as back up on his tour
as opposed to just hiring a couple of slick guitar players and a rythem section....especially on the Styx songs. at least he's not trying to be Styx all by himself.....that would never work, and I think he's smart enough to know that.

I'll reserve judgement on the quality of his new work until I get my copies, whenever that is.

[yogi]

Classic, Its always a pleasure talking to you. Let me tell you what I am MORE disappointed with. Close to three months ago I shelled out $55 dollars to support Chicago WTBS ,and WTTW. For my support, and my $55 dollars I was led to believe I would be one of the few to own an exclusive Dennis Deyoung Sounstage Double CD Set. Three months later nobody at WTTW can even tell me when I am going to get my DDY Double CD. I just got off the phone with a very nice lady ( Irene ) who told me she would get to the bottom of this issue. She also thought this was going to be an exclusive offer for WTTW pledge members. Yet the same CD is now selling for $25 dollars at one of his midwest concerts. Whats that about ??Does Dennis realize he has fans outside of the midwest?? Since he is NOT on a record label and he distributes when and where he wants to, this one is totally on him. Personally, I would think he would first take care of the fans who months ago shelled out $ 55 dollars. After speaking to Irene I am sure it will now appear in The Deyoung store looong before my copy ever sniffs my mail box. Anyway, just so mine isnt an 8 track, and I receive it before my daughter graduates high school!!! Irene said she would call me back tomorrow with what she found out.

[classicstyxfan]

Jeez Yogi, that bites on a number of different fronts.....I dont think
Public Television has any right using a product in a pledge drive that isnt ready for shipping. I dont know in which direction to point the finger, or who is to blame, but that just sucks ! At bare minimum, it would be nice if they could re-direct the additional $30.00 to benefit Public TV in your area.....

on the other hand, if the $30.00 helps them do more soundstage shows, you can feel a little consolation in that.

[yogi]

WTTW orginally stated it would be 6 to 8 weeks before we would receive the DDY Soundstage CD's. I do have an idea. If any of you are waiting for your DDY CD's like I am PLEASE call the station. The phone number for Member Services at WTTW11 is (773) 509-1111. They will take you through their new menu so listen carefully, then press 5 and someone will answer. Be careful your call may be monitered! Today was the third time I had called, and Irene was the first person at WTTW who really tried to help me at all. Maybe if they took on a few more calls they would contact Dennis and he would send them the CD's so they could ship them out. Just an idea, and I'm not trying to start some sort of petition.

[sadie65]

Yogi,

I just want to help clarify some things for you. I watched Soundstage as well, and not once did I come away from it being led to believe that the live 2cd set was from Soundstage or exclusive to that program. All throughout the pledge drive Dennis and the people at WTTW kept telling people it was from a concert that Dennis did at the Chicago Theater in April of this year (one at which I attended). And Dennis always said it would be available on his website for sale, so I am sorry you came away with the wrong impression.

I have relatives that work at other PBS stations. I too am waiting for both my dvd and cd, so I can appreciate your frustration. What I can tell you is that Dennis is not the delay here. It is in fact WTTW. They do not want to do more than one mass mailing of the merchandise. My cousin says this is standard for all PBS stations to hold merchandise if they are selling more than one related item. So for those that ordered just the dvd, they had to wait for the cd, and vice versa. I too checked with the fine folks at WTTW and was told that they were waiting for the dvd shipment.

I was lucky enough to get to talk to Dennis after the concert for a few minutes. He is aware of the delay and was pretty sure everything would be shipped within the next 2 weeks. I know it's ridiculous, and I'm not trying to start a petition either. Just trying to give you some info.

Sadie

[yogi]

Thanks for the GREAT info Sadie. If I have it in early December I really will be happy. If it is good, and I'm sure it will be, I will then go to the Deyoung Store and purchase a few more copies for Christmas presents.I know a few people who we usually exchange gifts with who would love to hear from Dennis again. Thanks!!!

[yogi]

Suite, I almost forgot Rockers, and The Millennium Collection are on a COMPLETELY different label (A&M Records). Since Cyclorama is on Sanctuary Records how Cyclorama sold, or did'nt sell has NOTHING to do with the Rockers CD's release. It is in NO way, shape or form a way for the label to reap benefits for as you say the disappointing sales figures of Cyclorama. The record companies are COMPLETELY different, so Angry Madame Blue my points DO have merit, and are valid. So as was stated on the "CLASSIC" movie 'My Cousin Vinny', my argument is valid and 'does hold water' Is Angry and Blue redundant??????? SMILE!!!!!!!

[classicstyxfan]

OK, here is where I admit I am not always the brightest bulb in the lighting store.......If I understand correctly, the CD is mostly a live recording made of a DDY concert in Chicago in April, with 3 new songs thrown on correct ?

The CD offered at the DeYoung store is the EXACT CD available through WTTW....yes or no ?

Is the DVD the exact same show, with the exact same songs ? and is the DVD only available through WTTW ? If it will be sold in the DeYoung store too , why isnt the site touting it ?

All this money burning a hole in my pocket, yet , so much confusion.....any help is appreciated !

[sadie65]

Okay let's see if I can clear this up for you Classic.

The double live cd was strictly a concert he did in Chicago with three new songs. Soundstage is a separate deal all together.

The dvd is of Soundstage and is NOT the same material. Soundstage is currently exclusive to WTTW, however I understand down the road Dennis will be able to sell it offof his site.

The cd is only going to be available at his site and his concerts.

Hope this helps.

Sadie

[yogi]

This does NOT clear up the matter at all for me. This now confuses me mooore.About three months ago I donated $55 dollars to get an exclusive Double CD from Dennis Deyoungs Soundstage Concert. That is how I understood it. I ordered this CD by first going to Styxcollector.com. They had the link to WTTW. I went to WTTW pledged 55 dollars and for my pledge ordered my gift which was the DDY Soundstage Double CD. So Sadie, what will arrive in my mail one day??? Is this the same CD's he is selling at his concerts, and at The Deyoung Store?? I TRULY am confused now.

[sadie65]

Yogi,

I thought I cleared this up for you the last time. The cd you ordered has NOTHING to do with Soundstage. It was being offered at the same time as the Soundstage dvd during the pledge drive. Most of the artists who appear on Soundstage are selling a selling cd of theirs. Truly it is not the Soundstage production and was NEVER exclusive to Soundstageor WTTW.

What will arrive in your mailbox one day is a double live cd with three additional songs of a concert from April of this year at the Chicago Theater. That same cd is what is being sold at his concerts and will be on his website.

Hopefully you now have a much clearer understanding.

Sadie

[yogi]

Sadie,
I just got off the phone with Irene from WTTW11 a few minutes ago. She is going to call me back after 4pm today "hopefully with some information". I swear she is the only one who is trying to look into when they(WTTW) will get the DDY CD's to send out to their pledges. It seems like the others at the station do NOT believe the CD is finished, and out there already. They act like I am lying to them that Dennis has already sold this CD at his Milwaukee Concert. Is their anyway you could call the station, and tell them that I am telling them the truth on this matter. They(except Irene) really act like the CD is not finished and ready for distribution. I posted WTTW11 phone number and what extention to dial on an above post. I'd appreciate the help. You seem to have WAY more information about this then anyone at the station does.