R.I.P. Global Warming...The Convenient Truth...it's not hot!

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby 7 Wishes » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:42 am

Fact Finder wrote:If you believe in Manmade Globull Warming and ALGORE, you are the most gullible, ignorant, elitist, holier than thou, goofy, mindless, full of your own kinda shit stoOpid! :lol:


It's Al Gore, incidentally...not ALGORE.

Seriously? This "de-bunking" is in of itself being debunked right now. The party of misinformation and lies is stonewalling the truth because they want to. Almost all of my conservative friends still believe in global warming - they predicate their beliefs by researching, inquiring, and determining the truth. Global warming is not, nor should be, a political issue.

I presume, then, that you're saying NASA, the UN, almost all the world's sanctioned scientific bodies, and a vast majority of independent climatologists all agree global warming is, at the very least, very likely caused by humankind, are all "ignorant...goofy, [and] mindless"? It sounds to me as though you're the one who's treading water on a proverbial sea of bullshit.

RWF, your post is complete bullshit and was cobbled together by a highly partial and misinformed source. Sorry, but...wrong again.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:54 am

I'm going to take a queue from you Grudgeodites and paste a massive article. This one, however, is based on actual science!

I will say I am disgusted that the 1,200 climatologists/dignitaries are ALL getting their own gas-guzzling limos to take them to and from the conference. Reeks of hypcrisy, but then...so does Al Gore's massive mansion. Oh, and anything and evertyhing that Hannity, Blimpaugh, O'Reilly, Katz, and Beck ever says.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Here's another one for you troglodytes:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/index/

Put this in your corn cob pipe and smoke it. I dare you.

1 "It's the sun" Solar activity has shown little to no long term trend since the 1950's. Consequently, any correlation between sun and climate ended in the 1970's when the modern global warming trend began. More...

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2 "Climate's changed before" Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our climate's sensitivity to CO2. More...

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3 "There is no consensus" That humans are causing global warming is the position of the Academies of Science from 19 countries plus many scientific organisations that study climate science. More specifically, 97% of climate scientists actively publishing climate papers endorse the consensus position. More...

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4 "It's cooling" Empirical measurements of the Earth's heat content show the planet is still accumulating heat and global warming is still happening. Surface temperatures can show short term cooling when heat is exchanged between the atmosphere and the ocean, which has a much greater heat capacity than the air. More...

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5 "Models are unreliable" While there are uncertainties with climate models, they successfully reproduce the past and have successfully predicted future climate change. More...

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6 "Temp record is unreliable" Numerous studies into the effect of urban heat island effect and microsite influences find they have negligible effect on long term trends, particularly when averaged over large regions. More...

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7 "It hasn't warmed since 1998" The planet has continued to accumulate heat since 1998 - global warming is still happening. Nevertheless, surface temperatures show much internal variability due to heat exchange between the ocean and atmosphere. 1998 was an unusually hot year due to a strong El Nino. More...

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8 "Ice age predicted in the 70s" 1970's ice age predictions were predominantly media based with the majority of scientific papers predicting warming. More...

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9 "We're heading into an ice age" The radiative forcing from CO2 increases greatly outstrips the forcing from solar activity, even if solar levels were to drop to Maunder Minimum levels. More...

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10 "Antarctica is gaining ice" While the interior of East Antarctica is gaining land ice, overall Antarctica is losing land ice at an accelerating rate. Antarctic sea ice is growing despite a strongly warming Southern Ocean. More...

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11 "CO2 lags temperature" CO2 causes temperature rise AND warming causes CO2 outgassing from oceans. This feedback system is confirmed by the CO2 record. In the past, the amplifying effect of CO2 feedback enabled warming to spread across the globe and take the planet out of the ice age. More...

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12 "Al Gore got it wrong" While there are minor errors in An Inconvenient Truth, the main truths presented - evidence to show mankind is causing global warming and its various impacts is consistent with peer reviewed science. More...

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13 "Global warming is good" The negative impacts of global warming on agriculture, health, economy and environment far outweigh any positives. More...

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14 "It's freaking cold!" Since the mid 1970s, global temperatures have been warming at around 0.2°C per decade. However, weather imposes it's own dramatic ups and downs over the long term trend. We expect to see record cold temperatures even during global warming. Nevertheless over the last decade, daily record high temperatures occurred twice as often as record lows. This tendency towards hotter days is expected to increase as global warming continues into the 21st Century. More...

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15 "Hurricanes aren't linked to global warming" It is unclear whether global warming is increasing hurricane frequency but there is increasing evidence that warming increases hurricane intensity. More...

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16 "Mars is warming" Martian climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo and there is little empirical evidence that Mars is showing long term warming. More...

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17 "1934 - hottest year on record" 1934 is the hottest year on record in the USA which only comprises 2% of the globe. According to NASA temperature records, the hottest year on record globally is 2005. More...

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18 "It's cosmic rays" While the link between cosmic rays and cloud cover is yet to be confirmed, more importantly, there has been no correlation between cosmic rays and global temperatures over the last 30 years of global warming. More...

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19 "It's just a natural cycle" The 1500 year cycles, known as Dansgaard-Oeschger events, are localized to the northern hemisphere and accompanied with cooling in the southern hemisphere. In contrast, current global warming is occuring in both hemispheres and particularly throughout the world's oceans, indicating a significant energy imbalance. More...

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20 "Urban Heat Island effect exaggerates warming" While urban areas are undoubtedly warmer than surrounding rural areas, this has had little to no impact on warming trends. More...

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21 "Sea level rise is exaggerated" Sea levels are measured by a variety of methods that show close agreement - sediment cores, tidal gauges, satellite measurements. What they find is sea level rise has been steadily accelerating over the past century. More...

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22 "Hockey stick is broken" Since the hockey stick paper in 1998, there have been a number of proxy studies analysing a variety of different sources including corals, stalagmites, tree rings, boreholes and ice cores. They all confirm the original hockey stick conclusion: the 20th century is the warmest in the last 1000 years and that warming was most dramatic after 1920. More...

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23 "Arctic icemelt is a natural cycle" Arctic sea ice has been retreating over the past 30 years. The rate of retreat is accelerating and in fact is exceeding most models' forecasts. More...

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24 "Other planets are warming" Not all planets are warming - some are cooling. Of those that are warming, the reasons are largely known and are phenomenon unique to each planet. More...

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25 "Greenland was green" The Greenland ice sheet has existed for at least 400,000 years. There may have been regions of Greenland that were 'greener' than today but this was not a global phenomenon. More...

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26 "Water vapor is the most powerful greenhouse gas" Water vapour is the most dominant greenhouse gas. Water vapour is also the dominant positive feedback in our climate system and amplifies any warming caused by changes in atmospheric CO2. This positive feedback is why climate is so sensitive to CO2 warming. More...

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27 "Human CO2 is a tiny % of CO2 emissions" The CO2 that nature emits (from the ocean and vegetation) is balanced by natural absorptions (again by the ocean and vegetation). Therefore human emissions upset the natural balance, rising CO2 to levels not seen in at least 800,000 years. In fact, human emit 26 gigatonnes of CO2 per year while CO2 in the atmosphere is rising by only 15 gigatonnes per year - much of human CO2 emissions is being absorbed by natural sinks. More...

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28 "We're coming out of an ice age" The two driving causes of natural climate change over the past few centuries as we've emerged from the Little Ice Age were solar variations and volcanic activity. Both have showed little variation over the past half century and cannot explain recent warming. More...

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29 "Oceans are cooling" Early estimates of ocean heat from the Argo showed a cooling bias due to pressure sensor issues. Recent estimates of ocean heat that take this bias into account show continued warming of the upper ocean. This is confirmed by independent estimates of ocean heat as well as more comprehensive measurements of ocean heat down to 2000 metres deep. More...

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30 "It cooled mid-century" There are a number of forcings which affect climate (eg - stratospheric aerosols, solar variations). When all forcings are combined, they show good correlation to global temperature throughout the 20th century including the mid-century cooling period. However, for the last 35 years, the dominant forcing has been CO2. More...

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31 "It warmed before 1940 when CO2 was low" Early 20th century warming was in large part due to rising solar activity and relatively quiet volcanic activity. However, both factors have played little to no part in the warming since 1975. Solar activity has been steady since the 50's. Volcanoes have been relatively frequent and if anything, have exerted a cooling effect. More...

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32 "Mt. Kilimanjaro's ice loss is due to land use" Mount Kilimanjaro's shrinking glacier is complicated and not due to just global warming. However, this does not mean the Earth is not warming. There is ample evidence that Earth's average temperature has increased in the past 100 years and the decline of mid- and high-latitude glaciers is a major piece of evidence. More...

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33 "Polar bears are increasing" While there is some uncertainty on current polar bear population trends, one thing is certain. No sea ice means no seals which means no polar bears. With Arctic sea ice retreating at an accelerating rate, the polar bear is at grave risk of extinction More...

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34 "There's no empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming" Direct observations find that CO2 is rising sharply due to human activity. Satellite measurements find less energy is escaping to space at CO2 absorption wavelengths. Ocean and surface temperature measurements find the planet is steadily accumulating heat. There is direct empirical evidence that human CO2 emissions are causing global warming. More...

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35 "Glaciers are growing" While there are isolated cases of growing glaciers, the overwhelming trend in glaciers worldwide is retreat. In fact, the global melt rate has been accelerating since the mid-1970s. More...

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36 "Climate sensitivity is low" Climate sensitivity can be calculated empirically by comparing past temperature change to natural forcings at the time. Various periods of Earth's past have been examined in this manner and find broad agreement of a climate sensitivity of around 3°C. More...

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37 "Extreme weather isn't caused by global warming" There is growing empirical evidence that warming temperatures cause more intense hurricanes, heavier rainfalls and flooding, increased conditions for wildfires and dangerous heat waves. More...

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38 "Satellites show no warming in the troposphere" Satellite measurements match model results apart from in the tropics. There is uncertainty with the tropic data due to how various teams correct for satellite drift. The U.S. Climate Change Science Program conclude the discrepancy is most likely due to data errors. More...

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39 "The IPCC does not represent a scientific consensus" The IPCC lead authors are experts in their field. The chapters that are prepared are charged with fairly representing the full range of the up-to-date, peer-reviewed literature. The IPCC tends to be cautious in coming to conclusions. Consequently, newest research findings are consistently leading to the IPCC concluding that climate change is occurring more rapidly and intensely than indicated by the cautious findings in its previous assessments. More...

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40 "CO2 is not a pollutant" While there are ways in which CO2 is a pollutant (acidification of the ocean), it's primary impact is its greenhouse warming effect. While the greenhouse effect is a natural occurance, too much warming has severe negative impacts on agriculture, health and environment. More...

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41 "CO2 effect is weak" An enhanced greenhouse effect from CO2 has been confirmed by multiple lines of empirical evidence. Satellite measurements of infrared spectra over the past 40 years observe less energy escaping to space at the wavelengths associated with CO2. Surface measurements find more downward infrared radiation warming the planet's surface. This provides a direct, empirical causal link between CO2 and global warming. More...

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42 "There's no correlation between CO2 and temperature" Even during a period of long term warming, there are short periods of cooling due to climate variability. Short term cooling over the last few years is largely due to a strong La Nina phase in the Pacific Ocean and a prolonged solar minimum. More...

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43 "If scientists can't predict weather, how can they predict long term climate?" Weather is chaotic, making prediction difficult. However, climate takes a long term view, averaging weather out over time. This removes the chaotic element, enabling climate models to successfully predict future climate change. More...

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44 "CO2 has been higher in the past" When CO2 levels were higher in the past, solar levels were also lower. The combined effect of sun and CO2 matches well with climate. More...

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45 "Greenland is gaining ice" While the Greenland interior is in mass balance, the coastlines are losing ice. Overall Greenland is losing ice mass at an accelerating rate. From 2002 to 2009, the rate of ice mass loss doubled. More...

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46 "Neptune is warming" Neptune's orbit is 164 years so observations (1950 to present day) span less than a third of a Neptunian year. Climate modelling of Neptune suggests its brightening is a seasonal response. Eg - Neptune's southern hemisphere is heading into summer. More...

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47 "Jupiter is warming" Jupiter's climate change is due to shifts in internal turbulence fueled from an internal heat source - the planet radiates twice as much energy as it receives from the sun. More...

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48 "There's no tropospheric hot spot" Satellite measurements match model results apart from in the tropics. There is uncertainty with the tropic data due to how various teams correct for satellite drift. The U.S. Climate Change Science Program conclude the discrepancy is most likely due to data errors. More...

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49 "Pluto is warming" Pluto's climate change over the last 14 years is likely a seasonal event. Pluto experiences drastic season changes due to an elliptical orbit (that takes 250 Earth years). Any Plutonian warming cannot be caused by solar variations as the sun has showed little to no long term trend over the past 50 years and sunlight at Pluto is 900 times weaker than it is at the Earth. More...

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50 "It's Pacific Decadal Oscillation" PDO as an oscillation between positive and negative values shows no long term trend, while temperature shows a long term warming trend. When the PDO last switched to a cool phase, global temperatures were about 0.4C cooler than currently. The long term warming trend indicates the total energy in the Earth's climate system is increasing due to an energy imbalance. More...

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51 "Greenland ice sheet is stable" Satellite gravity measurements show Greenland is losing ice mass at an accelerated rate, increasing its contribution to rising sea levels. More...

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52 "It's the ocean" Oceans are warming across the globe. In fact, globally oceans are accumulating energy at a rate of 4 x 1021 Joules per year - equivalent to 127,000 nuclear plants (which have an average output of 1 gigawatt) pouring their energy directly into the world's oceans. This tells us the planet is in energy imbalance - more energy is coming in than radiating back out to space. More...

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53 "CRU emails suggest climate conspiracy" While some of the private correspondance is not commendable, an informed examination of their "suggestive" emails reveal technical discussions using techniques well known in the peer reviewed literature. Focusing on a few suggestive emails merely serves to distract from the wealth of empirical evidence for man-made global warming. More...

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54 "It's volcanoes (or lack thereof)" Volcanoes emit around 0.3 Gigatonnes of CO2 per year. This is about 1% of human CO2 emissions which is around 26.4 Gigatonnes per year. More...

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55 "The CO2 effect is saturated" If the CO2 effect was saturated, adding more CO2 should add no additional greenhouse effect. However, satellite and surface measurements observe an enhanced greenhouse effect at the wavelengths that CO2 absorb energy. This is empirical proof that the CO2 effect is not saturated. More...

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56 "Less than half of published scientists endorse global warming" Schulte's paper makes much of the fact that 48% of the papers they surveyed are neutral papers, refusing to either accept or reject anthropogenic global warming. The fact that so many studies on climate change don't bother to endorse the consensus position is significant because scientists have largely moved from what's causing global warming onto discussing details of the problem (eg - how fast, how soon, impacts, etc). More...

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57 "Animals and plants can adapt to global warming" A large number of ancient mass extinction events have been strongly linked to global climate change. Because current climate change is so rapid, the way species typically adapt (eg - migration) is, in most cases, simply not be possible. Global change is simply too pervasive and occurring too rapidly. More...

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58 "CO2 measurements are suspect" CO2 levels are measured by hundreds of stations scattered across 66 countries which all report the same rising trend. More...

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59 "It's aerosols" The global dimming trend reversed around 1990 - 15 years after the global warming trend began in the mid 1970's. More...

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60 "It's El Niño" The El Nino Southern Oscillation shows close correlation to global temperatures over the short term. However, it is unable to explain the long term warming trend over the past few decades. More...

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61 "It's land use" Correlations between warming and economic activity are most likely spurious. They don't take into account local forcing agents such as tropospheric ozone or black carbon. Correlations are likely over-estimated since grid boxes in both economic and climate data are not independent. Lastly, there is significant independent evidence for warming in the oceans, snow cover and sea ice extent changes. More...

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62 "Humans are too insignificant to affect global climate" Atmospheric CO2 levels are rising by 15 gigatonnes per year. Humans are emitting 26 gigatonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere. Humans are dramatically altering the composition of our climate. More...

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63 "It's microsite influences" A comparison between the best rating weather stations and the entire temperature record show practically identical trends. This demonstrates that microsite influence has imparted little to no warming bias in the U.S. temperature record. More...

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64 "It's methane" While methane is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, there is over 200 times more CO2 in the atmosphere. Hence the amount of warming methane contributes is 28% of the warming CO2 contributes. More...

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65 "It's Solar Cycle Length" Updated solar cycle data since 1991 finds the agreement between solar cycles and temperature breaks down in the mid-70's. This confirms the many other studies that find solar variations cannot be causing recent global warming. More...

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66 "Naomi Oreskes' study on consensus was flawed" An examination of the papers that critics claim refute the consensus are found to actually endorse the consensus or are review papers (eg - they don't offer any new research but merely review other papers). This led the original critic Benny Peisner to retract his criticism of Oreskes' study. More...

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67 "The Medieval Warm Period was warmer" While the Medieval Warm Period featured unusually warm conditions in some regions, there were other regions that showed significant cold temperatures. Globally the planet was much cooler than current conditions. More...

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68 "Water levels correlate with sunspots" There seems to be evidence for a link between solar activity and water levels. However, more direct comparisons between solar activity and global temperature finds that as the sun grew hotter or cooler, Earth's climate followed it with a 10 year lag - presumably due to the dampening effect of the ocean. Also found was that the correlation between solar activity and global temperatures ended around 1975, hence recent warming must have some other cause than solar variations. More...

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69 "Solar cycles cause global warming" A full reading of Tung 2008 finds a distinct 11 year solar signal in the global temperature record. However, this 11 year cycle is superimposed over the long term global warming trend. In fact, the authors go on to estimate climate sensitivity from their findings, calculate a value between 2.3 to 4.1°C. This confirms the IPCC estimate of climate sensitivity. More...

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70 "The sun is getting hotter" Various independent measurements of solar activity all confirm the sun has shown a slight cooling trend since 1978. More...

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71 "It's albedo" The long term trend from albedo is that of cooling. In recent years, satellite measurements of albedo show little to no trend. More...

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72 "It's ozone" Multiple satellite measurements and ground-based observations have determined the ozone layer has stopped declining since 1995 while temperature trends continue upwards. More...

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73 "It's satellite microwave transmissions" A generous estimate of the energy generated by satellites is around 1 million times too small to cause global warming. More...

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74 "Global temperatures dropped sharply in 2007" 2007's dramatic cooling is driven by strong La Nina conditions which historically has caused similar drops in global temperature. It is also exacerbated by unusually low solar activity. More...

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75 "Ice isn't melting" Ice mass loss is occuring at an accelerated rate in Greenland, Antarctica and globally from inland glaciers. Arctic sea ice is also falling at an accelerated rate. The exception to this ice loss is Antarctic sea ice which has been growing despite the warming Southern Ocean. This is due to local factors unique to the area. More...

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76 "CO2 is not the only driver of climate" While there are many drivers of climate, CO2 is the most dominant radiative forcing and is increasing faster than any other forcing. More...

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77 "Trenberth can't account for the lack of warming" Trenberth's views are clarified in the paper "An imperative for climate change planning: tracking Earth's global energy". We know the planet is continually heating due to increasing carbon dioxide but that surface temperature sometimes have short term cooling periods. This is due to internal variability and Trenberth was lamenting that our observation systems can't comprehensively track all the energy flow through the climate system. More...

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Postby RedWingFan » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:05 pm

7 Wishes wrote:RWF, your post is complete bullshit and was cobbled together by a highly partial and misinformed source. Sorry, but...wrong again.

Dude, you are a mindless sheep....I feel bad for you.
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby 7 Wishes » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:11 pm

RedWingFan wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:RWF, your post is complete bullshit and was cobbled together by a highly partial and misinformed source. Sorry, but...wrong again.

Dude, you are a mindless sheep....I feel bad for you.


Excepting that science, data, and evidence backs up my assertions. You're in the misinformed, dogmatic, easily swayed minority.

Seriously, that's a brilliant response to a slam-bam-thank-you-ma'am article. Nothing else in the annals tonight?
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Postby RedWingFan » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:28 pm

7 Wishes wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:RWF, your post is complete bullshit and was cobbled together by a highly partial and misinformed source. Sorry, but...wrong again.

Dude, you are a mindless sheep....I feel bad for you.


Excepting that science, data, and evidence backs up my assertions. You're in the misinformed, dogmatic, easily swayed minority.

Seriously, that's a brilliant response to a slam-bam-thank-you-ma'am article. Nothing else in the annals tonight?

I'm comforted by the fact that this clown Al Gore is on your side! He's not called "the Jim Jones of the environmental movement" for nothing :lol: The FACT is that over the past 10-12 years CO2 levels have continued to increase while temps have dropped. There's no way to convince a fool of their foolish thinking. I'll just continue to laugh at you and leave you in your jester's role.

Al Gore on Conan O'Brien's show the other day:

Conan: Now, what about ... you talk in the book about geothermal energy ...

Al: Yeah, yeah.

Conan: and that is, as I understand it, using the heat that's generated from the core of the earth ...

Al: Yeah.

Conan: ... to create energy, and it sounds to me like an evil plan by Lex Luthor to defeat Superman. Can you, can you tell me, is this a viable solution, geothermal energy?

Al: It definitely is, and it's a relatively new one. People think about geothermal energy -- when they think about it at all -- in terms of the hot water bubbling up in some places, but two kilometers or so down in most places there are these incredibly hot rocks, 'cause the interior of the earth is extremely hot, several million degrees, and the crust of the earth is hot ...

[Me] The geothermal gradient is usually quoted as 25-50 degrees Celsius per mile of depth in normal terrain (not, e.g., in the crater of Kilauea). Two kilometers down, therefore, (that's a mile and a quarter if you're not as science-y as Al) you'll have an average gain of 30-60 degrees -- exploitable for things like home heating, though not hot enough to make a nice pot of tea. The temperature at the earth's core, 4,000 miles down, is usually quoted as 5,000 degrees Celsius, though these guys claim it's much less, while some contrarian geophysicists have posted claims up to 9,000 degrees. The temperature at the surface of the Sun is around 6,000 degrees Celsius, while at the center, where nuclear fusion is going on bigtime, things get up over 10 million degrees.

If the temperature anywhere inside the earth was "several million degrees," we'd be a star.

It is a remarkable fact that Al Gore has had a significant influence on public policy relating to science when he is, in fact, utterly uneducated in scientific matters and is of very limited intelligence.

On the other hand, he's gotten rich, so I guess the joke is on us.
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby Monker » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:26 pm

Fact Finder wrote:
gr8dane wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:LOL at Quote Finder. You alone must use up more bandwidth with your conservative columns copying/pasting than everyone else here combined. I have never read one original post from you.

You are a terrible poster, absolutely dreadful. Like dog shit. Seriously, you bring nothing to the argument that cannot be seen on Fox News.


He is obviously on commission.


Not commission, rather, a mission. It's a tough job showing others the error of their ways, but somebody has to do it. :wink:


Yeah, well, when all you do is quote radical conservatives, it's pretty pathetic. It's like arguing that religion is bad and quoting a bunch of athiest Communists. It's pointless.
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Postby Monker » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:35 pm

Oh, please, I actually like Ventura. But, when he mixes in "apocalyptic prophecies" into conspiracy theories, it's nothing but ratings.

It will be interesting to hear what he says. I know he's gone after the Republican party for being so funded by oil.

Michigan Girl wrote:Jesse Ventura~Conspiracy Theory... Wednesdays 10PM EPT
WHAT IS CONSPIRACY THEORY WITH JESSE VENTURA?
Jesse Ventura and a team of expert investigators are on a mission to examine some of the most frightening and mysterious conspiracy allegations of our time. They examine available evidence as well as talking to experts and eyewitnesses to learn more about such topics as global warming, possible 9/11 cover-ups, secret government weapons and apocalyptic prophecies. "This is my personal journey," Ventura says, "to prove that there is more to these stories than you know about."Global Warming – NEW!

Premiere On: Wed, December 16 at 10P
Whether global warming is real or not, it's believed some people are using the issue to make billions of dollars, start a one-world government and control our lives, from the cars we drive to the foods we eat. Jesse Ventura starts with Al Gore and goes far beyond as he uncovers the evidence that leads to one man thought to be behind the global warming conspiracy. :wink:


http://www.trutv.com/shows/conspiracy_theory/index.html
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Postby 7 Wishes » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:18 pm

RedWingFan wrote:There's no way to convince a fool of their foolish thinking. I'll just continue to laugh at you and leave you in your jester's role.


RWF, a fool such as you never opens his mouth without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge.

Really. Enough of this already. 97% of the actual scientific community and all its sanctioning bodies disagree with you.

C02 levels are higher than they have been in a million years!!! Humans emit 61% of the CO2 in the atmosphere. What else do you need?!

Anyway, I've got a retort for EVERYTHING and ANYTHING you can throw at me. You're wrong.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:23 pm

My major post this evening is all the ammunition Deano, TNC, and the rest of us "token" Democrats need to diffuse your proverbial stink bomb at this point.

You guys need to move back to Acorn or something...you've got nothing on this thread. Sorry, guys. Game, set, match.
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Postby Arkansas » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:32 pm

7 Wishes wrote: ...you've got nothing on this thread. Sorry, guys. Game, set, match.


Oh yeah?! Well, well, well, my Dad can beat up your Dad! So there. :P

Btw, although I don't believe global warming to the extent that many do, I hope the Gore-ites are right. I'd love to see the sea levels rise a few feet and clean-up our coast lines. A few big cities under water would probably be a nice purge for this country.


later~
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Postby Monker » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:42 pm

7 Wishes wrote:1 "It's the sun" Solar activity has shown little to no long term trend since the 1950's. Consequently, any correlation between sun and climate ended in the 1970's when the modern global warming trend began. More...


EXACTLY. An 11yr cycle makes no sense when the trend has been happening for almost 30yrs.

2 "Climate's changed before" Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our climate's sensitivity to CO2. More...


Also, many of those were possibly caused by natural disasters. Every likes to point out the "mini ice-age"...but that may have been caused by a huge volcanic eruption that parially blocked out the sun and caused the entire planet to cool.

Link...
5 "Models are unreliable" While there are uncertainties with climate models, they successfully reproduce the past and have successfully predicted future climate change. More...


I also find this ironic...In the midst of the 'new ice-age' talk in the 1970's, the first computer model was programmed...and it predicted global warming. So, I find it humorous that this is even an argument.

Link...
8 "Ice age predicted in the 70s" 1970's ice age predictions were predominantly media based with the majority of scientific papers predicting warming. More...


I didn't know this, except for what I wrote above.

Link...
9 "We're heading into an ice age" The radiative forcing from CO2 increases greatly outstrips the forcing from solar activity, even if solar levels were to drop to Maunder Minimum levels. More...


When the glaciers are disapearing from Glacier National Park, and the polar caps have lost so much ice, arguing that we are heading for an ice-age is ludicrous. I would be more worried about the permafrost melting in Canada and Iceland, instead of an ice-age.

Link...
11 "CO2 lags temperature" CO2 causes temperature rise AND warming causes CO2 outgassing from oceans. This feedback system is confirmed by the CO2 record. In the past, the amplifying effect of CO2 feedback enabled warming to spread across the globe and take the planet out of the ice age. More...


EXACTLY correct. Like I wrote before, take a can of soda and leave it on the counter to warm and it will lose it's fizz, the CO2. Pub the same open can in the fridge, and it won't...it will lose some - but not all. Same thing as above. I mean, come on, it's very simple to understand. There there are other factors, like how much salt and other chemicals are in the water. It's not just a simple thing that the oceans hold on to CO2 and balance things out for the Earth.

Link...
12 "Al Gore got it wrong" While there are minor errors in An Inconvenient Truth, the main truths presented - evidence to show mankind is causing global warming and its various impacts is consistent with peer reviewed science. More...


I think he exagerates a LOT...and that gives something to latch on to point out that he's "fear mongering", and therefore to not believe anything he says. At the same time, a LOT of what he said IS true and you are foolish not look at the big picture.


Link...
13 "Global warming is good" The negative impacts of global warming on agriculture, health, economy and environment far outweigh any positives. More...


I think a lot of it is unpredictable. What happens when permafrost melts? I don't know. What happens when the oceans lose so much of their salinity? I don't know. The fact is, it is a giant experiment that man is doing to the planet...to say that it will be good is VERY foolish.

Link...
14 "It's freaking cold!" Since the mid 1970s, global temperatures have been warming at around 0.2°C per decade. However, weather imposes it's own dramatic ups and downs over the long term trend. We expect to see record cold temperatures even during global warming. Nevertheless over the last decade, daily record high temperatures occurred twice as often as record lows. This tendency towards hotter days is expected to increase as global warming continues into the 21st Century. More...


Duh...of course it's freezing...it's the middle of December. But, I do know that I wasn't wearing a winter coat until last week....

Link...
16 "Mars is warming" Martian climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo and there is little empirical evidence that Mars is showing long term warming. More...


What a stupid argument. Look at Venus, where much of its atmosphere IS CO2 and other greenhouse gases. It's surface temp is higher then Mercury because of global warming. Mars is freezing cold because it has very little atmosphere at all....even tho it IS mostly CO2, there is so little of it that it can't hold its heat.

Link...
18 "It's cosmic rays" While the link between cosmic rays and cloud cover is yet to be confirmed, more importantly, there has been no correlation between cosmic rays and global temperatures over the last 30 years of global warming. More...

Cosmic rays? You mean because of the weakening magnetic poles? That may cause cancer but not heat the Earth. Sorry Starbuck, wrong kinda energy.

Link...
29 "Oceans are cooling" Early estimates of ocean heat from the Argo showed a cooling bias due to pressure sensor issues. Recent estimates of ocean heat that take this bias into account show continued warming of the upper ocean. This is confirmed by independent estimates of ocean heat as well as more comprehensive measurements of ocean heat down to 2000 metres deep. More...


Hey, they used another 'trick' to 'hide the decline'.

Link...
30 "It cooled mid-century" There are a number of forcings which affect climate (eg - stratospheric aerosols, solar variations). When all forcings are combined, they show good correlation to global temperature throughout the 20th century including the mid-century cooling period. However, for the last 35 years, the dominant forcing has been CO2. More...


I find this interesting...Basicaly, the acculative concentration of CO2 is trumping natural long-term cooling cycles. Scary - very scary.

n the past 100 years and the decline of mid- and high-latitude glaciers is a major piece of evidence. More...

Link...
33 "Polar bears are increasing" While there is some uncertainty on current polar bear population trends, one thing is certain. No sea ice means no seals which means no polar bears. With Arctic sea ice retreating at an accelerating rate, the polar bear is at grave risk of extinction More...


I was watching Monsterquest a few weeks ago If polar bears can adapt, they may end up migrating into Alaska and Canada, and breeding with native bears. This could create a hybrid...bear, not car.

Link...
37 "Extreme weather isn't caused by global warming" There is growing empirical evidence that warming temperatures cause more intense hurricanes, heavier rainfalls and flooding, increased conditions for wildfires and dangerous heat waves. More...


All I know is Des Moines experienced a 100yr flood in both 1993 and in 2008. Seems kinda odd to me.

Link...
46 "Neptune is warming" Neptune's orbit is 164 years so observations (1950 to present day) span less than a third of a Neptunian year. Climate modelling of Neptune suggests its brightening is a seasonal response. Eg - Neptune's southern hemisphere is heading into summer. More...


NEPTUNE? Neptune can't get much colder. The atmosphere can be -360F. Most of its heat is generated by the planets core, not from the sun. To compare it to Earth is just plain stupid.

Link...
47 "Jupiter is warming" Jupiter's climate change is due to shifts in internal turbulence fueled from an internal heat source - the planet radiates twice as much energy as it receives from the sun. More...


Yep...and Jupiter is a sun the didn't spark. Again, how does giant Jupiter compare to Earth?

Link...
49 "Pluto is warming" Pluto's climate change over the last 14 years is likely a seasonal event. Pluto experiences drastic season changes due to an elliptical orbit (that takes 250 Earth years). Any Plutonian warming cannot be caused by solar variations as the sun has showed little to no long term trend over the past 50 years and sunlight at Pluto is 900 times weaker than it is at the Earth. More...


Who cares? Pluto isn't even a planet any more! That's like saying a comet is warming. Of course it is cuz it's getting closer to the sun. And, again, it's not like it could get much colder!

Link...
53 "CRU emails suggest climate conspiracy" While some of the private correspondance is not commendable, an informed examination of their "suggestive" emails reveal technical discussions using techniques well known in the peer reviewed literature. Focusing on a few suggestive emails merely serves to distract from the wealth of empirical evidence for man-made global warming. More...


LOL...exactly.

Link...
64 "It's methane" While methane is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, there is over 200 times more CO2 in the atmosphere. Hence the amount of warming methane contributes is 28% of the warming CO2 contributes. More...


The methane is the cow fart contribution to global warming, fyi.l

Link...
70 "The sun is getting hotter" Various independent measurements of solar activity all confirm the sun has shown a slight cooling trend since 1978. More...


That is interesting....In the very, very, very long term, the sun DOES get hotter. But, it's over such a long term that our great, great, grandchildren will be dead before the sun would change the temp even one degree.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:15 pm

I guess Mr. Gray, being in the 3% minority, must know more than the 97% of scientists who disagree with him.

Way to cherrypick, Fart Finder.

Wind up your Blimpaugh Bobblehead. It needs another battery.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:18 pm

7 Wishes wrote:I guess Mr. Gray, being in the 3% minority, must know more than the 97% of scientists who disagree with him.

Way to cherrypick, Fart Finder.

Wind up your Blimpaugh Bobblehead. It needs another battery.

Brilliant comeback professor!!! :roll:
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Postby Saint John » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:24 pm

It's funny how the left wants us to believe that we invaded Iraq for oil even though we haven't taken one fucking barrel. Then they also want me to believe that "global warming" is real (Is anyone really stupid enough to believe that??? :? ) even though they've stashed billions in their pockets through grants and "studies" on something that is less plausible than the fucking Easter Bunny! :lol: What a bunch of dopes. Then again, this is the same party that voted in a fucking Muslim who was indoctrinated by a racist pastor and buddied around with a known domestic terrorist.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:24 pm

Seeing that I pointed out that only 3% of his peers agree with him, then, yes, I would say my retort is certainly qualifiable.

i mean, your "evidence" is completely debunked! So just move along. Let's agrue about whether or not Robert Fleischman was a better singer than Swivelhips.
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Postby artist4perry » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:32 pm

7 Wishes wrote:Seeing that I pointed out that only 3% of his peers agree with him, then, yes, I would say my retort is certainly qualifiable.

i mean, your "evidence" is completely debunked! So just move along. Let's agrue about whether or not Robert Fleischman was a better singer than Swivelhips.


What about that 3%........if the majority is wrong it is wrong. Numbers beleiveing does not establish right or wrong. Many beleived the world was flat? Is it? The majority was wrong. Science is continually discovering misinterpretations and ideals.

And by the way, insults don't add to your credibility. Any school yard kid can call people names. Find some facts of your own. Makes it much more of an interesting arguement. Though I have to say the Fart Finder and Blimpaugh Bobblehead comments were quite high tech. :wink: :lol: :lol: Messing with you 7 wishes. :wink: :lol: :P :twisted:
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:39 pm

I would say "Fart Finder" and "untruthmongerer" pale in comparison with "moronic liberal idiot" and "stupid fuck Democrat" labels with which I've been so frequently blessed.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:41 pm

artist4perry wrote: Find some facts of your own. Makes it much more of an interesting arguement.


With all the documentation and peer-reviewed scientific data to which I've referred, I would say I've made more than viable assertions. I'm still waiting for someone to attempt to discredit or parry down the last two behemoths I just unveiled.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:56 pm

Saint John wrote:It's funny how the left wants us to believe that we invaded Iraq for oil even though we haven't taken one fucking barrel. Then they also want me to believe that "global warming" is real (Is anyone really stupid enough to believe that??? :? ) even though they've stashed billions in their pockets through grants and "studies" on something that is less plausible than the fucking Easter Bunny! :lol: What a bunch of dopes. Then again, this is the same party that voted in a fucking Muslim who was indoctrinated by a racist pastor and buddied around with a known domestic terrorist.

Oh yeah, Bush invaded Iraq to take all their oil. I believe 7 Wishes was ringing that bell way back when. Just like he was claiming that Bush was inspiration for acts of terrorism against the US. You prove him wrong on one thing and he comes right back banging his head against another wall.
Here's a summary of our debate.
7 Wishes: 97% of the scientific community believes in global warming!

RWF: They also agree that it's gotten colder over the past 12 years.

7 Wishes: CO2 levels are higher than they've been in a million years!

RWF: And it's still getting cooler.

7 Wishes: CO2 levels are higher than they've EVER BEEN!!! EVER!!!!

RWF: It's getting colder.
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby Saint John » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:59 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:00 pm

RWF: They also agree that it's gotten colder over the past 12 years.

Dude, ANY year looks colder than 1998! It's the standard GOP measuring stick. It was an abnormally warm year - the warmest of all time. Temperatures have risen steadily at unprecedented and increasing rates since industrialization. STRIKE ONE ON THE GOP!!!!

7 Wishes: CO2 levels are higher than they've been in a million years!

RWF: And it's still getting cooler.

That is simply factually wrong. Period, end of story. Not true. STRIKE TWO ON THE GOP!!

Good Lord. You guys really do just parrot the Blimpaugh-O'Reilly-Beck-Katz-Hannity talking points. You're still WAAAY below the Mendoza line of credibility.

STRIKE THREE ON THE GOP!!!!
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Postby artist4perry » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:09 pm

7 Wishes wrote:I would say "Fart Finder" and "untruthmongerer" pale in comparison with "moronic liberal idiot" and "stupid fuck Democrat" labels with which I've been so frequently blessed.


I don't think I have ever called you any names..........except in playfullness :wink: :D ........I find that drops my credibility too much. Much like little children calling each other names on a playground. Never a great debate strategy. And I think I said that it is better to add facts of your own, not that you have never added any. That is what makes the debated interesting.

As for proving you wrong, you seem to fail to solve one mystery for me. Where the theory becomes a fact. And sadly truth gets swept under the rug when greed and profit clouds the eyes of so called rational scientist. Could the dollar bills be clouding judgement and findings? I am afraid this is very true today. Show me a scientist who won't profit from it, and is in it for pure science and I might have less misgivings. :wink:
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Postby Michigan Girl » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:00 pm

Maurice Strong...he's the one we need to question!!! :wink:
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Postby Monker » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:12 pm

7 Wishes wrote:Seeing that I pointed out that only 3% of his peers agree with him, then, yes, I would say my retort is certainly qualifiable.

i mean, your "evidence" is completely debunked! So just move along. Let's agrue about whether or not Robert Fleischman was a better singer than Swivelhips.


There 'evidence' isn't facts. It's all superficial BS.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:15 pm

Monker wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:Seeing that I pointed out that only 3% of his peers agree with him, then, yes, I would say my retort is certainly qualifiable.

i mean, your "evidence" is completely debunked! So just move along. Let's agrue about whether or not Robert Fleischman was a better singer than Swivelhips.


There 'evidence' isn't facts. It's all superficial BS.

You mean "Their 'evidence'"...right genious? :lol:
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Postby Monker » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:19 pm

RedWingFan wrote:
Monker wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:Seeing that I pointed out that only 3% of his peers agree with him, then, yes, I would say my retort is certainly qualifiable.

i mean, your "evidence" is completely debunked! So just move along. Let's agrue about whether or not Robert Fleischman was a better singer than Swivelhips.


There 'evidence' isn't facts. It's all superficial BS.

You mean "Their 'evidence'"...right genious? :lol:


Dude, he posted a HUGE note FULL of facts, which you completely ignored and pretend doesn't exist! Then you go about making posts that were already proved WRONG several times over in this thread. All you and the followers like MythMaker can do is come up with ClimateGate loony tunes and quote then saying it's a scandal....even when they do not have a SINGLE fact to back them up.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:35 pm

Monker wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:
Monker wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:Seeing that I pointed out that only 3% of his peers agree with him, then, yes, I would say my retort is certainly qualifiable.

i mean, your "evidence" is completely debunked! So just move along. Let's agrue about whether or not Robert Fleischman was a better singer than Swivelhips.


There 'evidence' isn't facts. It's all superficial BS.

You mean "Their 'evidence'"...right genious? :lol:


Dude, he posted a HUGE note FULL of facts, which you completely ignored and pretend doesn't exist! Then you go about making posts that were already proved WRONG several times over in this thread. All you and the followers like MythMaker can do is come up with ClimateGate loony tunes and quote then saying it's a scandal....even when they do not have a SINGLE fact to back them up.

While the Earth is going through its "climate change" cool-down. Why don't you guys move on to another "problem" we can do nothing about, like the shifting tectonic plates? I mean Monker, entire continents are crashing into one another and drifting apart as we speak. What are we going to do? We can't let this happen! Somebody has to do something! Why don't you put on a pair of your moms stockings, tie a table cloth around your neck and go pick up 7 Wishes as your sidekick. Just keep you hands off my money trying to solve a "problem" we can't do a damn thing about.
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Postby treetopovskaya » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:35 pm

those damn russians. };C)
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:19 pm

RedWingFan wrote:While the Earth is going through its "climate change" cool-down. Why don't you guys move on to another "problem" we can do nothing about, like the shifting tectonic plates...entire continents are crashing into one another and drifting apart as we speak. What are we going to do? We can't let this happen! Somebody has to do something...go pick up 7 Wishes as your sidekick.


This is actually very funny, RWF. The edited version, mind you.
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Postby strangegrey » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:45 pm

7 Wishes wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:While the Earth is going through its "climate change" cool-down. Why don't you guys move on to another "problem" we can do nothing about, like the shifting tectonic plates...entire continents are crashing into one another and drifting apart as we speak. What are we going to do? We can't let this happen! Somebody has to do something...go pick up 7 Wishes as your sidekick.


This is actually very funny, RWF. The edited version, mind you.


Yep...agreed. Even though we disagree on things political....sometimes a very good laugh is necessary. Especially if it's at Monker's expense! ;)
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