Yes We Can ! ;)

[Rockindeano]

Listen, and listen well ... take any inner city trash hole ... be it LA, Detroit, Oakland, NY, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, Philly, etc and you get a great glimpse of the democratic base ... filthy, uneducated, government dependent, crime-ridden, gang infested shit holes. That's your party, pal. Then grab a map and look at the land-owning red ... which basically comprises the rest of America. You know, the independent, civilized part.

Really? I would like to think that the Dems take the good with the bad. Remember that last election, where Obama won handily? Yeah, I seem to remember in addition to those cesspool shitholes, the good people of Iowa going blue, as did the Rust Belt folks of Indiana. Hell, North Carolina, Virginia and Florida all went blue. Hmm, come to think of it, Hawaii of all places went blue as did New Mexico, California, Oregon and Washington. Actually, if my memory serves me right, and it does, even a small square piece of Nebraska voted Democrat.

Kind of puts a hole in your theory doesn't it?

Owned

Ps- I know I am being a smart ass, but not all Democratic voters are black, beaner, lazy and gangsta.

Take a look at an electoral map on a county by county basis and virtually the entire thing is red ... except where people live in the gang-infested, crime-ridden, concrete jungles.

Here ... does the color of the map reflect the landslide outcome? Or perhaps the election was carried by that inner-city trash I keep referring to!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... County.PNG

Numbnuts...Just got back from the doctor and saw this. Nice try, but buzz! wrong again. All those solid red counties in the west, you know, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Kansas, etc...some of those counties have hardly any people in them. Wyoming has 4 people I believe per square mile....unfortunately for you and the Pubbies, land mass can't vote..but people can. Kansas, Nebraska, S Dakota, Idaho and Utah for example are a total of 22 electoral college votes....for fun, lets add Oklahoma, Alaska, North Dakota and even Texas. That's 57 electoral college votes. California is 55, so there's a wash. Your party's problem is it carries the states that don't matter frankly. As long as the Dems carry the West coast, the Northeast Corridor and either Ohio or Florida, it's game over. Like I told that hard headed Stu, I correctly told him Obama would win by 200 ev's. He won by 198 I believe. There is no one on the right who can defeat Obama. Sorry, but you haven't a chance in 2012, especially if you run against health care. The economy is getting better, will be very strong in 2012, the wars will be more or less done, the majority of the troops will be home, and health care will be held in a positive view. it is true, that when people see and read the bill, they heavily back it. You will see, this bill will carry the Democrats for decades to come, and the fact that not one of those motherfuckers on the right wanted anything to do with it, speaks volumes.

[fredinator]

Just spoke with my sister who's an OB/GYN (37 years) nurse at a Catholic hospital here in Austin and asked her how she really felt about this bill... She said it's a step, just a step in the right direction. She felt that the ones who will be most affected will be children with preexisting conditions who will now be covered. She said nearly every day in their hospital there is at least one young patient in ICU who was never covered by insurance, got sick, came down with pneumonia and is on a ventilator which could have been avoided if they had been covered. She said that even the nuns--the Catholic Health Association nuns--(not the priests, lol, a little joke between us) are for this healthcare plan since they are directly affected by all those patients who cannot pay their hospital bills.

[Michigan Girl]

It's not about being a democrat or a republican: It's about being a fucking good human being, and doing the right thing. For fucks sake; some of you should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm an independent!! If I weren't already a good human being, it's unlikely the
this health care reform would change that...FFS!!

[RossValoryRocks]

Sorry, but you haven't a chance in 2012, especially if you run against health care. The economy is getting better, will be very strong in 2012, the wars will be more or less done, the majority of the troops will be home, and health care will be held in a positive view. it is true, that when people see and read the bill, they heavily back it. You will see, this bill will carry the Democrats for decades to come, and the fact that not one of those motherfuckers on the right wanted anything to do with it, speaks volumes.

Once again you prove that an alcohol soaked brain will believe ANYTHING. Get back on the meds Dean, the ones your doctor prescibes, not the self medication you do so well. I am about to get very nasty with you, and you won't like it one bit. But at this point I don't care: You are shortsighted, alcoholic manic depressive LOUD MOUTH who stocks grocery shelves, Degree in Poli Sci or not, you are the bottom of the socio-econmic ladder and DO NOTHING but wave your degree around like it means something. I got news for you, it doesn't because you don't do anything with it, except use it as some kind of shield when someone points out your moronic behavior or beliefs. OF COURSE you like the new Healthcare law, because it will allow you to eventually sponge off the people who actually DO SOMETHING with their lives. You live on the past glory of Tapegate like it is some badge of your enlightened status as one of great thinkers of our time. Daily you come on here and rant about "winning" some argument, what is you favorite phrase?? OWNED??? Yeah you own people, now especially because we will have to foot the bill for your sorry ass, and the asses of others like you. Congratulations on your victory yesterday. Your country is going down the shitter and you are all smiles.

They didn't teach you a damn thing about economics in your classes. WE CANNOT AFORD TO PAY FOR THIS! This new law is going to DESTROY the USA. Period. The economics don't stand up, because it is dependent on making cuts that the politicians won't make.

I heard you peeping up about how Social Security was so great...yeah well...it's going BROKE...this year for the FIRST TIME the SSA redeemed IOU's...Which, since they have to be paid out of the treasury, goes STRAIGHT to the National Debt. So the deficit grows.

You have truly lost your mind if you think this thing is going to help out anything.

[wastingbeerz]

Are we totally broke yet????

...right, because I forgot, money is a REAL THING and all that really matters, people dying needlessly because they don't have enough of it (you know, because they don't have money that makes them less worthy to live than someone with more money, right?) should happen because they can't afford health insurance... right? Ugh. Money is fiction, we made it up, lives are real and should not be made or broken on such an idea. We are all stubborn and think money is all that's needed for survival. UGH.

[steveo777]

Sorry, but you haven't a chance in 2012, especially if you run against health care. The economy is getting better, will be very strong in 2012, the wars will be more or less done, the majority of the troops will be home, and health care will be held in a positive view. it is true, that when people see and read the bill, they heavily back it. You will see, this bill will carry the Democrats for decades to come, and the fact that not one of those motherfuckers on the right wanted anything to do with it, speaks volumes.

Once again you prove that an alcohol soaked brain will believe ANYTHING. Get back on the meds Dean, the ones your doctor prescibes, not the self medication you do so well. I am about to get very nasty with you, and you won't like it one bit. But at this point I don't care: You are shortsighted, alcoholic manic depressive LOUD MOUTH who stocks grocery shelves, Degree in Poli Sci or not, you are the bottom of the socio-econmic ladder and DO NOTHING but wave your degree around like it means something. I got news for you, it doesn't because you don't do anything with it, except use it as some kind of shield when someone points out your moronic behavior or beliefs. OF COURSE you like the new Healthcare law, because it will allow you to eventually sponge off the people who actually DO SOMETHING with their lives. You live on the past glory of Tapegate like it is some badge of your enlightened status as one of great thinkers of our time. Daily you come on here and rant about "winning" some argument, what is you favorite phrase?? OWNED??? Yeah you own people, now especially because we will have to foot the bill for your sorry ass, and the asses of others like you. Congratulations on your victory yesterday. Your country is going down the shitter and you are all smiles.

They didn't teach you a damn thing about economics in your classes. WE CANNOT AFORD TO PAY FOR THIS! This new law is going to DESTROY the USA. Period. The economics don't stand up, because it is dependent on making cuts that the politicians won't make.

I heard you peeping up about how Social Security was so great...yeah well...it's going BROKE...this year for the FIRST TIME the SSA redeemed IOU's...Which, since they have to be paid out of the treasury, goes STRAIGHT to the National Debt. So the deficit grows.

You have truly lost your mind if you think this thing is going to help out anything.

Spoken like a true friend. Many people won't understand what I mean by that.

[RossValoryRocks]

Spoken like a true friend. Many people won't understand what I mean by that.

I love Dean like a brother...and brother shouldn't be afraid to tell another brother like it is.

[parfait]

It's not about being a democrat or a republican: It's about being a fucking good human being, and doing the right thing. For fucks sake; some of you should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm an independent!! If I weren't already a good human being, it's unlikely the
this health care reform would change that...FFS!!

Go take a shower, calm down and just realize that my argument is sound - and stop denying the fact that taxes serves a country as a whole in a much better way than a citizen on their own, who decides what and how he/she wants to spent his/hers own money. Simple as that.

I've to loads of places filled with poverty and crime and seen how the evil circle just repeats itself out there. Without any external help (the tax payer and government), it'll just continue in its own downward spiral. You can't expect to do nothing, and then blame the poor/Mexicans/etc. that they're not getting a job or whatever - that's a huge oxymoron right there. If everyone would just pick who they would help/give money to then it'll turn into a mass segregated society. Paying taxes benefits the common good, simple as that. Then it's up to the government to take sound decisions how your own tax money should be spent, but that's a whole other thing.

...

[steveo777]

Spoken like a true friend. Many people won't understand what I mean by that.

I love Dean like a brother...and brother shouldn't be afraid to tell another brother like it is.

I'm glad what I said wasn't lost then. We're on the same page.

[Lula]

wow stu, pretty harsh there. there is something to be said for an honest days work even if the pay is not at your level. being critical of others is fine i suppose, but we don't always know the back story.

[RossValoryRocks]

I've been to Senegal, Cambodia, US, outskirts of Paris (filled with poverty and crime) and seen how the evil circle just repeats itself out there. Without any external help (the tax payer and government), it'll just continue in its own downward spiral. You can't expect to do nothing, and then blame the poor/Mexicans/etc. that they're not getting a job or whatever - that's a huge oxymoron right there. If everyone would just pick who they would help/give money to then it'll turn into a mass segregated society. Paying taxes benefits the common good, simple as that. Then it's up to the government to take sound decisions how your own tax money should be spent, but that's a whole other thing.

...

It's not paying taxes...it's the amounts. By the time I am done paying them all (State, Local, Property, Sales etc etc) I keep a little less the 1/2 of what I make to pay bills, my mortgage and everything. If you knew anything about taxes and how they effect the economy then you would understand confiscatory tax rates do nothing but drive down GDP.

No matter HOW HIGH or low the taxes a government cannot realize an income of more than 20% of GDP from taxes...but at the higher rates GDP falls, so there is less for the government to collect.

[Glenn]

I saw this and found it kinda funny ..

"We have a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it,
passed by Congress that hasn't read it, exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who hasn't read it & who smokes,
funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is obese,
& financed by a country that's broke.

What could go wrong?"

[RossValoryRocks]

wow stu, pretty harsh there. there is something to be said for an honest days work even if the pay is not at your level. being critical of others is fine i suppose, but we don't always know the back story.

I know the backstory...I know Dean is capable of more, much more...he CHOOSES to be what he is...

[Angel]

I saw this and found it kinda funny ..

"We have a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it,
passed by Congress that hasn't read it, exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who hasn't read it & who smokes,
funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is obese,
& financed by a country that's broke.

What could go wrong?"

That about sums it up!

[Lula]

I think the thread title needs to also reflect the "Democratic Euphoria" that's going on here.

what do you propose happen. there is a lot of griping over this, but no one has offered any alternative.

I've stated several things I propose. But I'll recap for those that missed it.

-Medical malpractice reform to reduce the malpractice insurance costs, that, as I mentioned, reach into six figures a year for physicians. Guess who ends up paying for that? The patients. People should not be allowed to file frivilous law suits against hosptials and physicians for millions of dollars-and it happens ALL the time.
-Reform the system we currently have. Abusers of the system cost the taxpayers millions every year. There is no reason someone with medicaid should be able to call an ambulance and be taken to the regional trauma center because they have a cough and need a ride to the hospital. A small copay would help to eliminate this. And YES, it does happen...A LOT!
-Don't make reimbursement so difficult for providers and reimburse at a rate that would allow providers to at a minumum break even-as it is now, most providers lose money by providing care for medicare and medicaid recipeints. So guess who pays the difference. Now, I already know what you are going to say-with healthcare reform everyone wins because there won't be one class of people paying the difference for the other....ok, true, but who pays the differnce to the provider so they don't lose money on every patient now???

Bottom line is healtcare reform is great for those in a lower socioeconomic class, not so much for middle and upper and not at all for providers. Being a healthcare provider will be a nightmare.

And for those of you that are about to blast me for being selfish and and doing what I do "just for the money." Well first of all if you think I do it for the money you don't know me at all, but I do have a family and yes, I do it for a living and I have put a lot of time and effort into my education-just as many of you have so why shouldn't I at least make a decent living doing what I do?

good point about frivolous lawsuits. i do think there are legitimate suits tho and would not want to deny the real claims. as far as the folks in the lower socioeconomic class- they have government provided care, the middle working class are the ones to see benefits from this. as for the upper class and taxes.... sorry. i suppose i might gripe if i was in that upper 10% of earners too, not!

this bill is a lot more than tort reform and maybe that will be addressed at some point. tort reform, however, will not reform the system.

[fredinator]

wow stu, pretty harsh there. there is something to be said for an honest days work even if the pay is not at your level. being critical of others is fine i suppose, but we don't always know the back story.

I know the backstory...I know Dean is capable of more, much more...he CHOOSES to be what he is...

This is below the belt, uncalled for and mean-spirited. You could try and make your point without trying to humiliate anyone ; your point is now unmade.

[Angel]

wow stu, pretty harsh there. there is something to be said for an honest days work even if the pay is not at your level. being critical of others is fine i suppose, but we don't always know the back story.

I know the backstory...I know Dean is capable of more, much more...he CHOOSES to be what he is...

This is below the belt, uncalled for and mean-spirited. You could try and make your point without trying to humiliate anyone :( ; your point is now unmade.

Yes, because that's how everyone else around here does it.

[RossValoryRocks]

This is below the belt, uncalled for and mean-spirited. You could try and make your point without trying to humiliate anyone ; your point is now unmade.

ROFLMAO! Welome to the MelodicRock Forums...ever seen Deano's posts??? Hmmmmm....if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen.

[Angel]

good point about frivolous lawsuits. i do think there are legitimate suits tho and would not want to deny the real claims.

Nor do I.

as far as the folks in the lower socioeconomic class- they have government provided care, the middle working class are the ones to see benefits from this. as for the upper class and taxes.... sorry. i suppose i might gripe if i was in that upper 10% of earners too, not!

this bill is a lot more than tort reform and maybe that will be addressed at some point. tort reform, however, will not reform the system.

I am perfectly aware that people in lower socioeconomic classes already have government provided care-and it's a clusterfuck. I'm still not seeing how it will help the middle class...increased taxes and poorer healthcare. The upper class can probably afford the higher taxes but still the attitude of "sorry" is a bit selfish wouldn't you say?

[fredinator]

This is below the belt, uncalled for and mean-spirited. You could try and make your point without trying to humiliate anyone ; your point is now unmade.

ROFLMAO! Welome to the MelodicRock Forums...ever seen Deano's posts??? Hmmmmm....if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen.

You're right; I'm going to bail... And it's not like "heat in the kitchen" it's more like kiss and tell. Dang, I'm glad my brother doesn't "love" me like you do, lol.

[Angel]

This is below the belt, uncalled for and mean-spirited. You could try and make your point without trying to humiliate anyone ; your point is now unmade.

ROFLMAO! Welome to the MelodicRock Forums...ever seen Deano's posts??? Hmmmmm....if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen.

But when Dean does it, "it's just dean" that's just "his posting style" so it's acceptable.

[Lula]

I am perfectly aware that people in lower socioeconomic classes already have government provided care-and it's a clusterfuck. I'm still not seeing how it will help the middle class...increased taxes and poorer healthcare. The upper class can probably afford the higher taxes but still the attitude of "sorry" is a bit selfish wouldn't you say?

no, not selfish. i work hard, i pay taxes, and pay for insurance. so there is a clusterfuck, is that any reason not to reform the system? i'd say it adds to the argument in favor of reform. the middle class is not seeing a tax hike in exchange for poorer health care. i'm fortunate to have decent health and a decent plan for me and my son. i want to be able to shop around if needed and i want to see people less fortunate than myself have access to the quality of care that is available. not selfish.

[Angel]

no, not selfish. i work hard, i pay taxes, and pay for insurance. so there is a clusterfuck, is that any reason not to reform the system?

This is not reforming the system, it's simply expanding the clusterfuck.

i want to be able to shop around if needed and i want to see people less fortunate than myself have access to the quality of care that is available. not selfish.

But as you stated earlier, those less fortunate already have government programs......

[Lula]

no, not selfish. i work hard, i pay taxes, and pay for insurance. so there is a clusterfuck, is that any reason not to reform the system?

This is not reforming the system, it's simply expanding the clusterfuck.

i want to be able to shop around if needed and i want to see people less fortunate than myself have access to the quality of care that is available. not selfish.

But as you stated earlier, those less fortunate already have government programs......

not convinced that the reform bill is "simply expanding the clusterfuck" i'll give it more than 24 hours. there are less fortunate that do not have access as i do, that does not equate to the welfare class. i make a decent living and can provide for me and my son, some are not that fortunate. i am healthy, some are not.

[Monker]

Sorry, but you haven't a chance in 2012, especially if you run against health care. The economy is getting better, will be very strong in 2012, the wars will be more or less done, the majority of the troops will be home, and health care will be held in a positive view. it is true, that when people see and read the bill, they heavily back it. You will see, this bill will carry the Democrats for decades to come, and the fact that not one of those motherfuckers on the right wanted anything to do with it, speaks volumes.

Once again you prove that an alcohol soaked brain will believe ANYTHING. Get back on the meds Dean, the ones your doctor prescibes, not the self medication you do so well. I am about to get very nasty with you, and you won't like it one bit. But at this point I don't care: You are shortsighted, alcoholic manic depressive LOUD MOUTH who stocks grocery shelves, Degree in Poli Sci or not, you are the bottom of the socio-econmic ladder and DO NOTHING but wave your degree around like it means something. I got news for you, it doesn't because you don't do anything with it, except use it as some kind of shield when someone points out your moronic behavior or beliefs. OF COURSE you like the new Healthcare law, because it will allow you to eventually sponge off the people who actually DO SOMETHING with their lives. You live on the past glory of Tapegate like it is some badge of your enlightened status as one of great thinkers of our time. Daily you come on here and rant about "winning" some argument, what is you favorite phrase?? OWNED??? Yeah you own people, now especially because we will have to foot the bill for your sorry ass, and the asses of others like you. Congratulations on your victory yesterday. Your country is going down the shitter and you are all smiles.

They didn't teach you a damn thing about economics in your classes. WE CANNOT AFORD TO PAY FOR THIS! This new law is going to DESTROY the USA. Period. The economics don't stand up, because it is dependent on making cuts that the politicians won't make.

I heard you peeping up about how Social Security was so great...yeah well...it's going BROKE...this year for the FIRST TIME the SSA redeemed IOU's...Which, since they have to be paid out of the treasury, goes STRAIGHT to the National Debt. So the deficit grows.

You have truly lost your mind if you think this thing is going to help out anything.

Wow, a genius at work.

[RossValoryRocks]

no, not selfish. i work hard, i pay taxes, and pay for insurance. so there is a clusterfuck, is that any reason not to reform the system?

This is not reforming the system, it's simply expanding the clusterfuck.

i want to be able to shop around if needed and i want to see people less fortunate than myself have access to the quality of care that is available. not selfish.

But as you stated earlier, those less fortunate already have government programs......

not convinced that the reform bill is "simply expanding the clusterfuck" i'll give it more than 24 hours. there are less fortunate that do not have access as i do, that does not equate to the welfare class. i make a decent living and can provide for me and my son, some are not that fortunate. i am healthy, some are not.

The supporters of this debacle are too focused on what it does for, but not focused enough on how it is supposed to do it and how we are supposed to pay for it!!!!!

What part of WE CAN'T AFFORD IT don't you get?????? It's REALLY a simple thing. This law is going to backrupt the country, if we aren't there now, PERIOD.

It is going to be something like 5 TIMES larger than SS.

The CBO estimates take into account cuts that NO POLITICIAN will allow to happen because they will be bounced on the ears if they do. It's SMOKE and MIRRORS...and the AARP of course is supporting it...they KNOW the cuts will never happen.

Myopia at its finest! Everyone looks at the short term gain, but ignores the long term costs. Rather typically American if you ask me. Get it now...pay for it later, regardless of cost, or if we can afford it.

[RossValoryRocks]

Wow, a genius at work.

Coming from you...that is high praise indeed.

The country I love is FUCKED by this travesty of a law, and you and Deano are worried about a forum post?

As I have said, enjoy your little "victory", the reality won't even be upon us for 6-8 years...then lets see how you dance around.

[Angel]

The supporters of this debacle are too focused on what it does for, but not focused enough on how it is supposed to do it and how we are supposed to pay for it!!!!!

What part of WE CAN'T AFFORD IT don't you get?????? It's REALLY a simple thing. This law is going to backrupt the country, if we aren't there now, PERIOD.

It is going to be something like 5 TIMES larger than SS.

The CBO estimates take into account cuts that NO POLITICIAN will allow to happen because they will be bounced on the ears if they do. It's SMOKE and MIRRORS...and the AARP of course is supporting it...they KNOW the cuts will never happen.

Myopia at its finest! Everyone looks at the short term gain, but ignores the long term costs. Rather typically American if you ask me. Get it now...pay for it later, regardless of cost, or if we can afford it.

Exactly! It's so easy to look at it through rose colored glasses-healthcare for everyone sounds so wonderful-unless you look at it realistically, then, not so great.

[Monker]

What part of WE CAN'T AFFORD IT don't you get?????? It's REALLY a simple thing. This law is going to backrupt the country, if we aren't there now, PERIOD.

A number of years ago we were set to go to war in Iraq. One of my main arguments against it was that it was a war that we could not afford, at a time where we should be investing our money here at home to improve our economy, our nation and the people who live in it. The 'argument' I got back was that it was a war we could not afford to not fight.

I submit to you that THIS is investing in America, the American economy, and the American people. I find it repulsive, unAmerican, and unPatriotic that people would say this nation can not afford to invest in its own people. That is so backwards and seems so retarded that we are willing to build nations in the middle-east but are unwilling to build our own. How pathetic the conservative movement has become when it thinks this way, that other countries come before our own.

[Michigan Girl]

It's not about being a democrat or a republican: It's about being a fucking good human being, and doing the right thing. For fucks sake; some of you should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm an independent!! If I weren't already a good human being, it's unlikely the
this health care reform would change that...FFS!!

Go take a shower, calm down and just realize that my argument is sound - and stop denying the fact that taxes serves a country as a whole in a much better way than a citizen on their own, who decides what and how he/she wants to spent his/hers own money. Simple as that.

I've to loads of places filled with poverty and crime and seen how the evil circle just repeats itself out there. Without any external help (the tax payer and government), it'll just continue in its own downward spiral. You can't expect to do nothing, and then blame the poor/Mexicans/etc. that they're not getting a job or whatever - that's a huge oxymoron right there. If everyone would just pick who they would help/give money to then it'll turn into a mass segregated society. Paying taxes benefits the common good, simple as that. Then it's up to the government to take sound decisions how your own tax money should be spent, but that's a whole other thing.

...

You're rambling about crap that didn't even come out of my mouth/fingers!! Now ~being the kind, unselfish person that I am, I am much more concerned about the effect this will have on my country rather than my own LV!!