Styx/Charlie Brusco drama @ the Leftsetz Letter

[Monker]

Forcing the band to an album about robots is just as bad. I'm not making excuses for Tommy's behavior in 198x. Why are you making excuses for Dennis?

Forcing the band? Who said they were forced?
JY looked pretty good as DR R did not look forced to me and the Roboto tour was great, I saw it 5 times, So there was 1 stupid song.
The cd was really good IMO and the tour made money, It was Shaw who was on drugs and his baby attitude ruined the band.

To say that the other members were forced to do anything is not correct. It has been stated by more than one member of Styx that they each had a vote on band decisions. So if they felt forced then it was their own fault. They could have just voted not to accept DDY's project. It's that simple.

Correct, and the 'band decision' would have been to kick Dennis out of the band...which they tried to do earlier, and finaly did later.

[froy]

Monker

I love how Tommy's Coke snorting idiotic decisions about singles to release and then quiting the band seem to get a pass by some in this forum and caused to break up at their height of success.

Seems to me there was this robot thing in the middle of that somewhere.

A song way ahead of it's time and one that everyone knows.
The song that VW paid big bucks to use,
Not a bad decision at all

So, everybody knows "Tip Toe Through the Tulips", and we all know how much you love Tiny Tim.

Kilroy destroyed the band, just as much as Perry and ROR destroyed Journey. One person controling everything in a band is wrong and this is what it leads to.

Tell that to Pete Townsend and Roger Waters..

[froy]

Monker""Boomchild"

To say that the other members were forced to do anything is not correct. It has been stated by more than one member of Styx that they each had a vote on band decisions. So if they felt forced then it was their own fault. They could have just voted not to accept DDY's project. It's that simple.

Correct, and the 'band decision' would have been to kick Dennis out of the band...which they tried to do earlier, and finaly did later.

And look where it's brought them rerecords and a few thousand fans left,
Now you know why Dennis made the decisions

[Rockwriter]

I love how Tommy's Coke snorting idiotic decisions about singles to release and then quiting the band seem to get a pass by some in this forum and caused to break up at their height of success.

Remember why Tommy got into drugs AND quit the band...
Starts with a D...

The whole Cornerstone thing, the whole Concept thing for PT, then Kilroy... it's a wonder all of them didn't quit or kill each other.

It's absolutely silly to blame one person for another's lifestyle choices or addictions. Tommy was a grown man, and he had already been drinking and using drugs for years before he came into Styx. His problems got worse because he got more money and there was more available to him. Tommy is an addict, he would have been an addict no matter what band he was in. Ask him and he will tell you that himself.


Sterling

[blt man]

He sued the band because they forced his hand to do so. He first attempted to resolve it by trying to talk to the other members of the band. They chose to completely ignore his attempts and not even give him the respect to talk to him. Under those circumstances I don't blame him.

Not true. Suite knows more about this...But, I believe he sued the band because he felt he was not getting his shares of concert royalties, and maybe because of how they were using his name/voice/image in advertisements...but, it had nothing to do with 'forcing his hand', or a battle over the name "Styx", or getting back into the band. It ended up being settled by summary judgement, which means both parties agreed to allow the evidence to stand and the judge to decide the case without any further argument from either side....In other words, Dennis felt like he could not 'win' and agreed to just get it over with.

I thought there was an agreed settlement (which is different than one party seeking summary judgment and the other party not opposing). In any event, there are many reasons why people settle even if there is a good change they could win. A lot of it is a cost benefit analysis (e.g. How high are my legal fees going to be versus the damages I will collect if I am successfull).

[Toph]

Even though Dennis wanted him back with no questions asked in the 90's.

He wanted him back so bad that he told him to join DY.

Dennis has said that TS had already joined DY when DDY discussed about reforming Styx and DDY could not tell TS that he had to drop that commitment and re-join Styx.

The interview on this very site contradicts that. *DENNIS* said that Tommy called him a few times about a Styx reunion. The last call, Tommy told him there was this thing with Jack Blades and Ted Nugent...and *DENNIS* said he told Tommy to do it. There was another inteview from way back where Tommy told this exact same story in exactly the same way. Sorry, but I'll believe the story that the two parties agree on...over one that came out later where Dennis changes things.

Monker you are full of it. Stop making crap up.

[Monker]

He sued the band because they forced his hand to do so. He first attempted to resolve it by trying to talk to the other members of the band. They chose to completely ignore his attempts and not even give him the respect to talk to him. Under those circumstances I don't blame him.

Not true. Suite knows more about this...But, I believe he sued the band because he felt he was not getting his shares of concert royalties, and maybe because of how they were using his name/voice/image in advertisements...but, it had nothing to do with 'forcing his hand', or a battle over the name "Styx", or getting back into the band. It ended up being settled by summary judgement, which means both parties agreed to allow the evidence to stand and the judge to decide the case without any further argument from either side....In other words, Dennis felt like he could not 'win' and agreed to just get it over with.

I thought there was an agreed settlement (which is different than one party seeking summary judgment and the other party not opposing). In any event, there are many reasons why people settle even if there is a good change they could win. A lot of it is a cost benefit analysis (e.g. How high are my legal fees going to be versus the damages I will collect if I am successfull).

Styx filed for summary judgment and then it was settled out of court.

[Monker]

Monker

I love how Tommy's Coke snorting idiotic decisions about singles to release and then quiting the band seem to get a pass by some in this forum and caused to break up at their height of success.

Seems to me there was this robot thing in the middle of that somewhere.

A song way ahead of it's time and one that everyone knows.
The song that VW paid big bucks to use,
Not a bad decision at all

So, everybody knows "Tip Toe Through the Tulips", and we all know how much you love Tiny Tim.

Kilroy destroyed the band, just as much as Perry and ROR destroyed Journey. One person controling everything in a band is wrong and this is what it leads to.

Tell that to Pete Townsend and Roger Waters..

If you are comparing Kilroy to Tommy or The Wall then that is the most ridiculous thing ever.

[Monker]

Even though Dennis wanted him back with no questions asked in the 90's.

He wanted him back so bad that he told him to join DY.

Dennis has said that TS had already joined DY when DDY discussed about reforming Styx and DDY could not tell TS that he had to drop that commitment and re-join Styx.

The interview on this very site contradicts that. *DENNIS* said that Tommy called him a few times about a Styx reunion. The last call, Tommy told him there was this thing with Jack Blades and Ted Nugent...and *DENNIS* said he told Tommy to do it. There was another inteview from way back where Tommy told this exact same story in exactly the same way. Sorry, but I'll believe the story that the two parties agree on...over one that came out later where Dennis changes things.

Monker you are full of it. Stop making crap up.

Obviously, it is Dennis who was 'making stuff up', when in one interview he says one thing that agrees with what Tommy said, and then later changes his story.

[Toph]

Even though Dennis wanted him back with no questions asked in the 90's.

He wanted him back so bad that he told him to join DY.

Dennis has said that TS had already joined DY when DDY discussed about reforming Styx and DDY could not tell TS that he had to drop that commitment and re-join Styx.

The interview on this very site contradicts that. *DENNIS* said that Tommy called him a few times about a Styx reunion. The last call, Tommy told him there was this thing with Jack Blades and Ted Nugent...and *DENNIS* said he told Tommy to do it. There was another inteview from way back where Tommy told this exact same story in exactly the same way. Sorry, but I'll believe the story that the two parties agree on...over one that came out later where Dennis changes things.

Monker you are full of it. Stop making crap up.

Obviously, it is Dennis who was 'making stuff up', when in one interview he says one thing that agrees with what Tommy said, and then later changes his story.

Nope, you are wrong. Dennis story has remained consistent throughout. But what would anyone expect out of a guy who got thrown off the Journey forum more than once due to his habit of making things up. Go sell crazy somewhere else.

[froy]

Monker


So, everybody knows "Tip Toe Through the Tulips", and we all know how much you love Tiny Tim.

Kilroy destroyed the band, just as much as Perry and ROR destroyed Journey. One person controling everything in a band is wrong and this is what it leads to.

Tell that to Pete Townsend and Roger Waters..

If you are comparing Kilroy to Tommy or The Wall then that is the most ridiculous thing ever.

Nope just the one person controlling issue.

[Boomchild]

Forcing the band to an album about robots is just as bad. I'm not making excuses for Tommy's behavior in 198x. Why are you making excuses for Dennis?

Forcing the band? Who said they were forced?
JY looked pretty good as DR R did not look forced to me and the Roboto tour was great, I saw it 5 times, So there was 1 stupid song.
The cd was really good IMO and the tour made money, It was Shaw who was on drugs and his baby attitude ruined the band.

To say that the other members were forced to do anything is not correct. It has been stated by more than one member of Styx that they each had a vote on band decisions. So if they felt forced then it was their own fault. They could have just voted not to accept DDY's project. It's that simple.

Correct, and the 'band decision' would have been to kick Dennis out of the band...which they tried to do earlier, and finaly did later.

In '79 they asked him to rejoined the band. That's because they realized they just cut off a leg that was doing a lot of things right in terms of making the band successful. When they replaced him in '99 it was easier to do since the ground work that built the band had already been laid and they could easily just keep churning out that stuff without having to create anything new.

[Boomchild]

JY and his wife in 2008 is a very bad analogy JY only missed like four show and told the band to go on without him. Dennis insisted that they wait for him to "get better" which held up the band and was indefinite. The other guys have to put food on the table. Tough shit for Dennis.

Dennis told the band he needed about six months to get better and not an indefinite period of time. He did not agree with replacing members of the band even short term, he felt that would harm the integrity of the band.

They already gave him a year and a half. During that time, he didn't rest and recover; he worked on Hunchback and solo work. He blew it.

I do not believe that is true. Dennis stated that his illness started after he finished up on the "Hunchback" show and into the beginning of recording BNW. I also think his father passed away during that same period of time.

[Boomchild]

I love how Tommy's Coke snorting idiotic decisions about singles to release and then quiting the band seem to get a pass by some in this forum and caused to break up at their height of success.

Remember why Tommy got into drugs AND quit the band...
Starts with a D...

The whole Cornerstone thing, the whole Concept thing for PT, then Kilroy... it's a wonder all of them didn't quit or kill each other.

It is unfair to blame DDY for TS getting into drugs. DDY wasn't shoving the coke up his nose. TS made that choice himself and I am sure that even he would disagree with your comment. It seems to me that TS had a problem confronting people face to face on issues he had with them. Instead he would go to other people to try and have them resolve it for him, like Derek Suttun (SP?).

That may be true...But, at the same time, you can't excuse Dennis' dictator like actions for that time and say that his rule over the band did not severly impact how the other members viewed their place in the band, and how they viewed Dennis. Remember, he was almost fired prior to PT for those very reasons. Nobody in Styx wanted Dennis to have so much control, except for Dennis.

They all had equal voting rights on direction of the band. They had the power to stop him if they chose to but didn't for what ever reasons. Then they wanted to cry over spilled milk. They did fire him in '79 and then asked him to come back. If they were so dead set against what he was doing then they should have moved on without him then. Maybe they were thinking that he may have started a solo project or formed another group similar to Styx that would be hard to compete with based on Dennis' successful track record with Styx.

[Boomchild]

He sued the band because they forced his hand to do so. He first attempted to resolve it by trying to talk to the other members of the band. They chose to completely ignore his attempts and not even give him the respect to talk to him. Under those circumstances I don't blame him.

Not true. Suite knows more about this...But, I believe he sued the band because he felt he was not getting his shares of concert royalties, and maybe because of how they were using his name/voice/image in advertisements...but, it had nothing to do with 'forcing his hand', or a battle over the name "Styx", or getting back into the band. It ended up being settled by summary judgement, which means both parties agreed to allow the evidence to stand and the judge to decide the case without any further argument from either side....In other words, Dennis felt like he could not 'win' and agreed to just get it over with.

The point is that he tried to discuss the situation of things with the others which I'm sure would have extended beyond just getting replaced and they would not discuss anything with him. Now if any reasonable person had a contract, agreement or vested interest in a business like DDY had they would take the same action. He had just as much right to the things in the suit as any other member of Styx.

[Monker]

They all had equal voting rights on direction of the band. They had the power to stop him if they chose to but didn't for what ever reasons.

They did stop him...that is what froy and others have been whining about for 10yrs.

If they were so dead set against what he was doing then they should have moved on without him then.

Everybody moved on without Dennis AND Styx after Kilroy.

Maybe they were thinking that he may have started a solo project or formed another group similar to Styx that would be hard to compete with based on Dennis' successful track record with Styx.

Oh, please. Look, they went on several tours after the reunion with Dennis. Dennis was dividing his time between Styx and Hunchback. That is the simple truth. Then has to have so much control over everything and claim he is the one who does everything. Read his interviews for the few years after the breakup...HE produced all the albums. HE made Styx sound like Styx. HE cried when he listened to BNW because it wasn't up to his standards and expectations. Instead of working with the band and allowing others to have creative input and ideas on equal terms with his, he has to be the one to have veto power over everything, The band limited all of that with BNW, allowing someone else to produce, writing songs separate from each other and limiting Dennis' input. He hated it, his fans hated it. He came out looking the fool, and Tommy and JY's songs are MUCH better. Then Dennis whines, and whines and whines publicly, and sues the band.

How much of that crap do people expect Tommy, JY and Chuck to take? No sane person would put of that kind of person...that is why they let him go. Don't make up conspiracy theories.

[bugsymalone]

They all had equal voting rights on direction of the band. They had the power to stop him if they chose to but didn't for what ever reasons.

They did stop him...that is what froy and others have been whining about for 10yrs.

If they were so dead set against what he was doing then they should have moved on without him then.

Everybody moved on without Dennis AND Styx after Kilroy.

Maybe they were thinking that he may have started a solo project or formed another group similar to Styx that would be hard to compete with based on Dennis' successful track record with Styx.

Oh, please. Look, they went on several tours after the reunion with Dennis. Dennis was dividing his time between Styx and Hunchback. That is the simple truth. Then has to have so much control over everything and claim he is the one who does everything. Read his interviews for the few years after the breakup...HE produced all the albums. HE made Styx sound like Styx. HE cried when he listened to BNW because it wasn't up to his standards and expectations. Instead of working with the band and allowing others to have creative input and ideas on equal terms with his, he has to be the one to have veto power over everything, The band limited all of that with BNW, allowing someone else to produce, writing songs separate from each other and limiting Dennis' input. He hated it, his fans hated it. He came out looking the fool, and Tommy and JY's songs are MUCH better. Then Dennis whines, and whines and whines publicly, and sues the band.

How much of that crap do people expect Tommy, JY and Chuck to take? No sane person would put of that kind of person...that is why they let him go. Don't make up conspiracy theories.

One person's bullshit is another person's truth and vice-versa.

Bugsy

[shaka]

Where does this, "Tommy was broke in '97" crap come from?

[Babyblue]

Where does this, "Tommy was broke in '97" crap come from?

I was just wondering the very samething myself.

[Everett]

Where does this, "Tommy was broke in '97" crap come from?

Froy

[Monker]

Where does this, "Tommy was broke in '97" crap come from?

I was just wondering the very samething myself.

Dennis said in some interview that he agreed to do the 97 tour because one of the members needed the money. He did not say who it was...people just assume it was Tommy. As somebody else pointed out, it could have very easily have been Chuck. Or, who knows, it could have been exagerated BS for all we know. As far as I know it was only said in one interview and that was years ago.

[Monker]

They all had equal voting rights on direction of the band. They had the power to stop him if they chose to but didn't for what ever reasons.

They did stop him...that is what froy and others have been whining about for 10yrs.

If they were so dead set against what he was doing then they should have moved on without him then.

Everybody moved on without Dennis AND Styx after Kilroy.

Maybe they were thinking that he may have started a solo project or formed another group similar to Styx that would be hard to compete with based on Dennis' successful track record with Styx.

Oh, please. Look, they went on several tours after the reunion with Dennis. Dennis was dividing his time between Styx and Hunchback. That is the simple truth. Then has to have so much control over everything and claim he is the one who does everything. Read his interviews for the few years after the breakup...HE produced all the albums. HE made Styx sound like Styx. HE cried when he listened to BNW because it wasn't up to his standards and expectations. Instead of working with the band and allowing others to have creative input and ideas on equal terms with his, he has to be the one to have veto power over everything, The band limited all of that with BNW, allowing someone else to produce, writing songs separate from each other and limiting Dennis' input. He hated it, his fans hated it. He came out looking the fool, and Tommy and JY's songs are MUCH better. Then Dennis whines, and whines and whines publicly, and sues the band.

How much of that crap do people expect Tommy, JY and Chuck to take? No sane person would put of that kind of person...that is why they let him go. Don't make up conspiracy theories.

One person's bullshit is another person's truth and vice-versa.

Bugsy

After Styx went on tour without him, Dennis eventually started going on and on about how HE was responsible for the Styx sound, how HE produced every album, HE said that Styx fans were drinking Tommy's bathwater, HE said how he cried after listening to BNW. HE said how much of a hit Witness would have been if he produced it. Of course he also sued the band. That's what happened. Deal with it.

[Babyblue]

Where does this, "Tommy was broke in '97" crap come from?

I was just wondering the very samething myself.

Dennis said in some interview that he agreed to do the 97 tour because one of the members needed the money. He did not say who it was...people just assume it was Tommy. As somebody else pointed out, it could have very easily have been Chuck. Or, who knows, it could have been exagerated BS for all we know. As far as I know it was only said in one interview and that was years ago.

Thanks Monker

[SuiteMadameBlue]

One person's bullshit is another person's truth and vice-versa.

Bugsy

BUGSY!!!! My eyes!! I never heard you swear before!

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Where does this, "Tommy was broke in '97" crap come from?

I was just wondering the very samething myself.

Dennis said in some interview that he agreed to do the 97 tour because one of the members needed the money. He did not say who it was...people just assume it was Tommy. As somebody else pointed out, it could have very easily have been Chuck. Or, who knows, it could have been exagerated BS for all we know. As far as I know it was only said in one interview and that was years ago.

This is true - I'll find the article.

[froy]

Where does this, "Tommy was broke in '97" crap come from?

Froy

Go Fuck Yourself punk

[Everett]

Where does this, "Tommy was broke in '97" crap come from?

Froy

Go Fuck Yourself punk

Not until you admit that beef and i never sent you a pm

[shaka]

Where does this, "Tommy was broke in '97" crap come from?

I was just wondering the very samething myself.

Dennis said in some interview that he agreed to do the 97 tour because one of the members needed the money. He did not say who it was...people just assume it was Tommy. As somebody else pointed out, it could have very easily have been Chuck. Or, who knows, it could have been exagerated BS for all we know. As far as I know it was only said in one interview and that was years ago.

Exactly. One had an STD, was having major health issues, and didn't write any of the music therefore missed out on a lot of royalties. The other was living the good life just below the Hollywood sign which is a place you don't get to live unless you have some money.

[Boomchild]

They all had equal voting rights on direction of the band. They had the power to stop him if they chose to but didn't for what ever reasons.

They did stop him...that is what froy and others have been whining about for 10yrs.

I was saying that they should have done that way back in '79 if it was that much of an issue to them.

If they were so dead set against what he was doing then they should have moved on without him then.

Everybody moved on without Dennis AND Styx after Kilroy.

Not willingly though. Others in the band wanted to keep going and find a replacement for TS. Dennis did not agree and wanted to see if things would work out with TS.

Maybe they were thinking that he may have started a solo project or formed another group similar to Styx that would be hard to compete with based on Dennis' successful track record with Styx.

Oh, please. Look, they went on several tours after the reunion with Dennis. Dennis was dividing his time between Styx and Hunchback. That is the simple truth. Then has to have so much control over everything and claim he is the one who does everything. Read his interviews for the few years after the breakup...HE produced all the albums. HE made Styx sound like Styx. HE cried when he listened to BNW because it wasn't up to his standards and expectations. Instead of working with the band and allowing others to have creative input and ideas on equal terms with his, he has to be the one to have veto power over everything, The band limited all of that with BNW, allowing someone else to produce, writing songs separate from each other and limiting Dennis' input. He hated it, his fans hated it. He came out looking the fool, and Tommy and JY's songs are MUCH better. Then Dennis whines, and whines and whines publicly, and sues the band.

I have no doubt that DDY has an ego, so do the the others. I do not believe that he thinks he did or said he did "everything". I think it's clearly evident that he did a lot on the mixing and production end of things. I do not see any of the other members of Styx denying he didn't do any of the things DDY said he did either. You also are forgetting to leave out that DDY has always said that Styx would not be what it was without the efforts of ALL OF THEM. Also to say that DDY did not or would not want the input from other members of the band is wrong. I don't believe that anyone from the band stated that. What they did say is that he could be very insistent and forceful with his ideas and views on things. Which they had the power to stop by voting them down. As to which songs on BNW are better that is just a matter of opinion.

How much of that crap do people expect Tommy, JY and Chuck to take? No sane person would put of that kind of person...that is why they let him go. Don't make up conspiracy theories.

I wouldn't expect them to put up with it, if it was all true as told but actually we do not know that 100%. They could have vetoed him on things or kicked him out way before '99 but they chose not to. So they put up with it by their choice and should not make it sound as if they were powerless to stop him back then. I do not believe I am making up conspiracy theories. They did fire him for a short period of time in '79 and they fired him for good in '99. I have only stated things that band members have stated in public.

[Boomchild]

Where does this, "Tommy was broke in '97" crap come from?

I was just wondering the very samething myself.

Dennis said in some interview that he agreed to do the 97 tour because one of the members needed the money. He did not say who it was...people just assume it was Tommy. As somebody else pointed out, it could have very easily have been Chuck. Or, who knows, it could have been exagerated BS for all we know. As far as I know it was only said in one interview and that was years ago.

Exactly. One had an STD, was having major health issues, and didn't write any of the music therefore missed out on a lot of royalties. The other was living the good life just below the Hollywood sign which is a place you don't get to live unless you have some money.

I don't think it really matters who needed the money. The fact that DDY agreed to do it I think shows that he does care beyond just what is in it for him.