Looks Like High Enough is back

[pinkfloyd1973]

I actually hear Crystal Ball and Fooling Yourself all the time in the Chicago radio market. 97.1 plays them a lot. I'm not much of a radio fan these days, I only know this because the guys at work all enjoy listening to 97.1 "The Drive"

I LOVE the Drive, I listen to it when i'm sick of "The Loop"


Robin

[brywool]

I actually hear Crystal Ball and Fooling Yourself all the time in the Chicago radio market. 97.1 plays them a lot. I'm not much of a radio fan these days, I only know this because the guys at work all enjoy listening to 97.1 "The Drive"

I LOVE the Drive, I listen to it when i'm sick of "The Loop"


Robin

Hey, since you guys are FROM Chicago, what's Chicago's whole vibe on the Styx VS. Dennis thing? I would think that the city would be behind Dennis for some reason...

[Everett]

I actually hear Crystal Ball and Fooling Yourself all the time in the Chicago radio market. 97.1 plays them a lot. I'm not much of a radio fan these days, I only know this because the guys at work all enjoy listening to 97.1 "The Drive"

I LOVE the Drive, I listen to it when i'm sick of "The Loop"


Robin

Hey, since you guys are FROM Chicago, what's Chicago's whole vibe on the Styx VS. Dennis thing? I would think that the city would be behind Dennis for some reason...

Well there were quite a lot of people that showed up at the STYX show in chicago last weekend..

[brywool]

I actually hear Crystal Ball and Fooling Yourself all the time in the Chicago radio market. 97.1 plays them a lot. I'm not much of a radio fan these days, I only know this because the guys at work all enjoy listening to 97.1 "The Drive"

I LOVE the Drive, I listen to it when i'm sick of "The Loop"


Robin

Hey, since you guys are FROM Chicago, what's Chicago's whole vibe on the Styx VS. Dennis thing? I would think that the city would be behind Dennis for some reason...

Well there were quite a lot of people that showed up at the STYX show in chicago last weekend..

I always kind of wondered what that was like. Were Dennis friends there throwing crap at the band at any time in the history of this whole thing, or did it matter much to people? In the RTP video, you can see JY and Chuck making eye contact with friends in the audience and stuff and... I dunno, just wondered.

[Abitaman]

What one person considers "classic", someone else considers crap. I know plenty of people who think ALL Styx music is trash.

Say it is so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plexiglass toliet is the only song that is pure crap!!!
They have a few other songs that may not been good, but for the most part I think Styx songs are good to great, from any era.

[Abitaman]

As far as radio stations in the Cleveland TN area, really could not say. May listen to it (radio) a total of an hour a week.

[Monker]

The fact is that I hear: Crystal Ball, Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Too Much Time On My Hands, Miss America, Loralie...just as often as any of DDY's 'hits'...and much more often then some of those hits. Babe, Don't Let it End, Mr. Roboto, and Show Me the Way, are perfect examples of songs that are no longer on classic rock radio, even if they once were 'hits'.

Going on about 'hits' that are not being played is irrelevant...especially when the same people who complain about this would complain if they WERE played.

Have to agree, just because something is a hit, does not mean it will be a classic song years from now.
I myself hear Shaw's songs just as much as I hear DDY's on the radio, maybe more so. There is a greater chance of hearing a classic rock song than a classic ballad.

That really depends on what you listen to. I hear Dennis' ballads all the time in this market on the AC station (Mix 92.9), especially "Babe." And I hear "Mr. Roboto" on Jack FM quite frequently. The local classic rock station here (105.9 The Rock) plays CSA, BCM and "Renegade" mostly, with a smattering of others.

Then you agree with me that Tommy's songs are played on radio just as much as Dennis', and going on about 'hits' not being performed is a bit irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Most of the songs the average person can hum from this band are his songs.

And, that contradicts what you just said above....either people know these songs, or they don't. Again, just because a song is not a hit does not mean people don't know it. Seems to me that there are just as many Tommy songs that people know as there are Dennis songs.

I also take issue with your reasoning about songs in advertising. Sure, they probably have study groups to see which songs work the best. But, I doubt being able to hum the song, or if the song is a good song, or even if they are familiar with the song at all, is what they care about. What they care about is if it helps keep the viewers interest to watch the entire commercial, instead of FF their DVR through it. So, yeah, a quirky placement of Mr. Roboto gets chosen...because it adds a bit of humor, maybe some nostalgia, and keeps the viewer interested...Not much to do with being able to hum the melody.

[brywool]

What one person considers "classic", someone else considers crap. I know plenty of people who think ALL Styx music is trash.

Say it is so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plexiglass toliet is the only song that is pure crap!!!
They have a few other songs that may not been good, but for the most part I think Styx songs are good to great, from any era.

I dunno, Serpent is Rising and Krakatoa are worse... at least PT has some sense of fun to it...

[Monker]

I am saying that they are still playing songs that DDY was responsible for because of the impact those songs had on Styx's success while trying to erase DDY from Styx's history. For example, at one point they rewrote the band history section on Styxworld to remove any mention of Dennis DeYoung being in the band.

True. But, that was also shortly after the lawsuit, or shortly before it was settled. How do you know if the intention was to follow Dennis' wishes in the settlement, to remove his name from any advertisement for the band? I say you are just guessing and are allowing your own prejudices to affect your opinion on things.

As far as the other members taking a back seat to DDY, if they chose to do that it was their decision to do so. They shouldn't bitch about it after the fact since they all had equal voting rights to turn down things that they felt should not have been done.

And, you continue to ignore the fact that they DIDN'T put up with it. They kicked him out of the band for a time. Tommy left after Kilroy because of the direction the band was taking. They finally fired him for good after BNW. The band REPEATEDLY gave him warning to change his attitude and ego...and he ignored it until he was finally fired.

[Everett]

What one person considers "classic", someone else considers crap. I know plenty of people who think ALL Styx music is trash.

Say it is so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plexiglass toliet is the only song that is pure crap!!!
They have a few other songs that may not been good, but for the most part I think Styx songs are good to great, from any era.

I dunno, Serpent is Rising and Krakatoa are worse... at least PT has some sense of fun to it...

22 years is the best song on serpent imo

[StyxCollector]

And, you continue to ignore the fact that they DIDN'T put up with it. They kicked him out of the band for a time. Tommy left after Kilroy because of the direction the band was taking. They finally fired him for good after BNW. The band REPEATEDLY gave him warning to change his attitude and ego...and he ignored it until he was finally fired.

To play Devil's advocate for a moment:
1. They got back together with Dennis THREE times after giving him the axe in '79 - Cornerstone (right after the firing), EOTC, and '96 - '99. So for all his faults, the guys - for whatever reason - felt they needed him to succeed. Dennis is the one. It's not a disputable fact Dennis got the final axe in '99 making things permanent, so I don't buy into any warnings BS. It is 20+ years of tension that came to a head and exploded. This is not unlike the story of a million other bands or other interpersonal relationships (like husband and wife) that fail over a long period of time. I'm still amazed at this point people have the same passion they did in '99 about it.
2. By Tommy's own admission (and clearly something he addresses in my interview with him), he was into drugs at the time. Kilroy can't be the only culprit for why he was doing them at the time. I think when Tommy cleaned up he did some of his best work in a long time (starting with parts of Ambition and then DY). So Tommy leaving may have had *something* to do with Kilroy, but I don't think it had everything to do with Kilroy. It's not like GWG was a heavy rockin' album. It was just as slick and poppy as Desert Moon in many ways. And then there's What If ... oy.

[brywool]

And, you continue to ignore the fact that they DIDN'T put up with it. They kicked him out of the band for a time. Tommy left after Kilroy because of the direction the band was taking. They finally fired him for good after BNW. The band REPEATEDLY gave him warning to change his attitude and ego...and he ignored it until he was finally fired.

To play Devil's advocate for a moment:
1. They got back together with Dennis THREE times after giving him the axe in '79 - Cornerstone (right after the firing), EOTC, and '96 - '99. So for all his faults, the guys - for whatever reason - felt they needed him to succeed. Dennis is the one. It's not a disputable fact Dennis got the final axe in '99 making things permanent, so I don't buy into any warnings BS. It is 20+ years of tension that came to a head and exploded. This is not unlike the story of a million other bands or other interpersonal relationships (like husband and wife) that fail over a long period of time. I'm still amazed at this point people have the same passion they did in '99 about it.
2. By Tommy's own admission (and clearly something he addresses in my interview with him), he was into drugs at the time. Kilroy can't be the only culprit for why he was doing them at the time. I think when Tommy cleaned up he did some of his best work in a long time (starting with parts of Ambition and then DY). So Tommy leaving may have had *something* to do with Kilroy, but I don't think it had everything to do with Kilroy. It's not like GWG was a heavy rockin' album. It was just as slick and poppy as Desert Moon in many ways. And then there's What If ... oy.

GWG wasn't a heavy rocking album... but it also wasn't a rigidly constructed concept album that left no room for creativity outside of songs about robots. I think the tensions of the band drove him to a lot of that stuff. Not all, but some. For a creative guy to only be allowed to be creative within certain stringent parameters would be tough.

In fact, I can't believe they're not all doing heroin at this point. To have to play the same songs over and over and over throughout the years would drive anyone to substances... yikes.

[Rockwriter]

The fact is that I hear: Crystal Ball, Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Too Much Time On My Hands, Miss America, Loralie...just as often as any of DDY's 'hits'...and much more often then some of those hits. Babe, Don't Let it End, Mr. Roboto, and Show Me the Way, are perfect examples of songs that are no longer on classic rock radio, even if they once were 'hits'.

Going on about 'hits' that are not being played is irrelevant...especially when the same people who complain about this would complain if they WERE played.

Have to agree, just because something is a hit, does not mean it will be a classic song years from now.
I myself hear Shaw's songs just as much as I hear DDY's on the radio, maybe more so. There is a greater chance of hearing a classic rock song than a classic ballad.

That really depends on what you listen to. I hear Dennis' ballads all the time in this market on the AC station (Mix 92.9), especially "Babe." And I hear "Mr. Roboto" on Jack FM quite frequently. The local classic rock station here (105.9 The Rock) plays CSA, BCM and "Renegade" mostly, with a smattering of others.

Then you agree with me that Tommy's songs are played on radio just as much as Dennis', and going on about 'hits' not being performed is a bit irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Most of the songs the average person can hum from this band are his songs.

And, that contradicts what you just said above....either people know these songs, or they don't. Again, just because a song is not a hit does not mean people don't know it. Seems to me that there are just as many Tommy songs that people know as there are Dennis songs.

I also take issue with your reasoning about songs in advertising. Sure, they probably have study groups to see which songs work the best. But, I doubt being able to hum the song, or if the song is a good song, or even if they are familiar with the song at all, is what they care about. What they care about is if it helps keep the viewers interest to watch the entire commercial, instead of FF their DVR through it. So, yeah, a quirky placement of Mr. Roboto gets chosen...because it adds a bit of humor, maybe some nostalgia, and keeps the viewer interested...Not much to do with being able to hum the melody.

No I do not agree with you, I did not apologize, and I did not contradict myself. There is simply no getting around the fact that the vast majority of Styx' commercial success derived from Dennis' songs. To say otherwise is just flat wrong. If you dispute that, then you dispute it in the face of demonstrable facts that everyone in the world is capable of looking up for himself. That's your choice, but it's not fact. That's not to take anything from Tommy, whose writing was important to the band. But not nearly AS important. Numbers do not lie. People have agendas. Math does not.

Yes, radio still plays some of Tommy's songs, albeit primarily in one format. Radio still plays Dennis' songs in multiple formats - just like they did when they were contemporary singles. Which is WHY they were such hits in the first place. Let's not forget that the only Styx singles to sell half a million copies as 45s were "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto". That means that ordinary, everyday working people chose to spend their money on those two songs more than any other songs the band ever released. That is a fact demonstrable by numbers. It is not my opinion.

As far as commercials and movies, VW may have chosen "Roboto" for some tongue-in-cheek value, obviously, but songs like CSA, "Babe", "Best Of Times" and to a lesser extent "Lady" have been used all over the place, and that's almost certainly because the music supervisors of those movies/shows are in my same age range and grew up with the band, and saw opportunities to use the music in ways that underscore the content. Dennis' songs tend to be somewhat cinematic anyway, so it's not a stretch to put them in there. And of course they look for the widest exposure, what else would they look for? If you're going to use a Styx song in a piece of work for wide release, what possible reason could you have for choosing one that's not as well-known? You're going to look for the biggest hits and gee, looky there, most of them are from Dennis. That's not an insult to Tommy, it's simple marketing 101. Why do you suppose all the label compilations lean so heavily on DDY songs? Because they want to sell records, by golly. That's why.


Sterling

[Toph]

The fact is that I hear: Crystal Ball, Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Too Much Time On My Hands, Miss America, Loralie...just as often as any of DDY's 'hits'...and much more often then some of those hits. Babe, Don't Let it End, Mr. Roboto, and Show Me the Way, are perfect examples of songs that are no longer on classic rock radio, even if they once were 'hits'.

Going on about 'hits' that are not being played is irrelevant...especially when the same people who complain about this would complain if they WERE played.

Have to agree, just because something is a hit, does not mean it will be a classic song years from now.
I myself hear Shaw's songs just as much as I hear DDY's on the radio, maybe more so. There is a greater chance of hearing a classic rock song than a classic ballad.

That really depends on what you listen to. I hear Dennis' ballads all the time in this market on the AC station (Mix 92.9), especially "Babe." And I hear "Mr. Roboto" on Jack FM quite frequently. The local classic rock station here (105.9 The Rock) plays CSA, BCM and "Renegade" mostly, with a smattering of others.

Then you agree with me that Tommy's songs are played on radio just as much as Dennis', and going on about 'hits' not being performed is a bit irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Most of the songs the average person can hum from this band are his songs.

And, that contradicts what you just said above....either people know these songs, or they don't. Again, just because a song is not a hit does not mean people don't know it. Seems to me that there are just as many Tommy songs that people know as there are Dennis songs.

I also take issue with your reasoning about songs in advertising. Sure, they probably have study groups to see which songs work the best. But, I doubt being able to hum the song, or if the song is a good song, or even if they are familiar with the song at all, is what they care about. What they care about is if it helps keep the viewers interest to watch the entire commercial, instead of FF their DVR through it. So, yeah, a quirky placement of Mr. Roboto gets chosen...because it adds a bit of humor, maybe some nostalgia, and keeps the viewer interested...Not much to do with being able to hum the melody.

No I do not agree with you, I did not apologize, and I did not contradict myself. There is simply no getting around the fact that the vast majority of Styx' commercial success derived from Dennis' songs. To say otherwise is just flat wrong. If you dispute that, then you dispute it in the face of demonstrable facts that everyone in the world is capable of looking up for himself. That's your choice, but it's not fact. That's not to take anything from Tommy, whose writing was important to the band. But not nearly AS important. Numbers do not lie. People have agendas. Math does not.

Yes, radio still plays some of Tommy's songs, albeit primarily in one format. Radio still plays Dennis' songs in multiple formats - just like they did when they were contemporary singles. Which is WHY they were such hits in the first place. Let's not forget that the only Styx singles to sell half a million copies as 45s were "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto". That means that ordinary, everyday working people chose to spend their money on those two songs more than any other songs the band ever released. That is a fact demonstrable by numbers. It is not my opinion.

As far as commercials and movies, VW may have chosen "Roboto" for some tongue-in-cheek value, obviously, but songs like CSA, "Babe", "Best Of Times" and to a lesser extent "Lady" have been used all over the place, and that's almost certainly because the music supervisors of those movies/shows are in my same age range and grew up with the band, and saw opportunities to use the music in ways that underscore the content. Dennis' songs tend to be somewhat cinematic anyway, so it's not a stretch to put them in there. And of course they look for the widest exposure, what else would they look for? If you're going to use a Styx song in a piece of work for wide release, what possible reason could you have for choosing one that's not as well-known? You're going to look for the biggest hits and gee, looky there, most of them are from Dennis. That's not an insult to Tommy, it's simple marketing 101. Why do you suppose all the label compilations lean so heavily on DDY songs? Because they want to sell records, by golly. That's why.


Sterling

Outstanding!

[chickenbeef]

The fact is that I hear: Crystal Ball, Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Too Much Time On My Hands, Miss America, Loralie...just as often as any of DDY's 'hits'...and much more often then some of those hits. Babe, Don't Let it End, Mr. Roboto, and Show Me the Way, are perfect examples of songs that are no longer on classic rock radio, even if they once were 'hits'.

Going on about 'hits' that are not being played is irrelevant...especially when the same people who complain about this would complain if they WERE played.

Have to agree, just because something is a hit, does not mean it will be a classic song years from now.
I myself hear Shaw's songs just as much as I hear DDY's on the radio, maybe more so. There is a greater chance of hearing a classic rock song than a classic ballad.

That really depends on what you listen to. I hear Dennis' ballads all the time in this market on the AC station (Mix 92.9), especially "Babe." And I hear "Mr. Roboto" on Jack FM quite frequently. The local classic rock station here (105.9 The Rock) plays CSA, BCM and "Renegade" mostly, with a smattering of others.

Then you agree with me that Tommy's songs are played on radio just as much as Dennis', and going on about 'hits' not being performed is a bit irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Most of the songs the average person can hum from this band are his songs.

And, that contradicts what you just said above....either people know these songs, or they don't. Again, just because a song is not a hit does not mean people don't know it. Seems to me that there are just as many Tommy songs that people know as there are Dennis songs.

I also take issue with your reasoning about songs in advertising. Sure, they probably have study groups to see which songs work the best. But, I doubt being able to hum the song, or if the song is a good song, or even if they are familiar with the song at all, is what they care about. What they care about is if it helps keep the viewers interest to watch the entire commercial, instead of FF their DVR through it. So, yeah, a quirky placement of Mr. Roboto gets chosen...because it adds a bit of humor, maybe some nostalgia, and keeps the viewer interested...Not much to do with being able to hum the melody.

No I do not agree with you, I did not apologize, and I did not contradict myself. There is simply no getting around the fact that the vast majority of Styx' commercial success derived from Dennis' songs. To say otherwise is just flat wrong. If you dispute that, then you dispute it in the face of demonstrable facts that everyone in the world is capable of looking up for himself. That's your choice, but it's not fact. That's not to take anything from Tommy, whose writing was important to the band. But not nearly AS important. Numbers do not lie. People have agendas. Math does not.

Yes, radio still plays some of Tommy's songs, albeit primarily in one format. Radio still plays Dennis' songs in multiple formats - just like they did when they were contemporary singles. Which is WHY they were such hits in the first place. Let's not forget that the only Styx singles to sell half a million copies as 45s were "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto". That means that ordinary, everyday working people chose to spend their money on those two songs more than any other songs the band ever released. That is a fact demonstrable by numbers. It is not my opinion.

As far as commercials and movies, VW may have chosen "Roboto" for some tongue-in-cheek value, obviously, but songs like CSA, "Babe", "Best Of Times" and to a lesser extent "Lady" have been used all over the place, and that's almost certainly because the music supervisors of those movies/shows are in my same age range and grew up with the band, and saw opportunities to use the music in ways that underscore the content. Dennis' songs tend to be somewhat cinematic anyway, so it's not a stretch to put them in there. And of course they look for the widest exposure, what else would they look for? If you're going to use a Styx song in a piece of work for wide release, what possible reason could you have for choosing one that's not as well-known? You're going to look for the biggest hits and gee, looky there, most of them are from Dennis. That's not an insult to Tommy, it's simple marketing 101. Why do you suppose all the label compilations lean so heavily on DDY songs? Because they want to sell records, by golly. That's why.


Sterling

they're styx's songs sterling. not tommy's, not dennis' and not jy's...they are styx songs

[Toph]

The fact is that I hear: Crystal Ball, Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Too Much Time On My Hands, Miss America, Loralie...just as often as any of DDY's 'hits'...and much more often then some of those hits. Babe, Don't Let it End, Mr. Roboto, and Show Me the Way, are perfect examples of songs that are no longer on classic rock radio, even if they once were 'hits'.

Going on about 'hits' that are not being played is irrelevant...especially when the same people who complain about this would complain if they WERE played.

Have to agree, just because something is a hit, does not mean it will be a classic song years from now.
I myself hear Shaw's songs just as much as I hear DDY's on the radio, maybe more so. There is a greater chance of hearing a classic rock song than a classic ballad.

That really depends on what you listen to. I hear Dennis' ballads all the time in this market on the AC station (Mix 92.9), especially "Babe." And I hear "Mr. Roboto" on Jack FM quite frequently. The local classic rock station here (105.9 The Rock) plays CSA, BCM and "Renegade" mostly, with a smattering of others.

Then you agree with me that Tommy's songs are played on radio just as much as Dennis', and going on about 'hits' not being performed is a bit irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Most of the songs the average person can hum from this band are his songs.

And, that contradicts what you just said above....either people know these songs, or they don't. Again, just because a song is not a hit does not mean people don't know it. Seems to me that there are just as many Tommy songs that people know as there are Dennis songs.

I also take issue with your reasoning about songs in advertising. Sure, they probably have study groups to see which songs work the best. But, I doubt being able to hum the song, or if the song is a good song, or even if they are familiar with the song at all, is what they care about. What they care about is if it helps keep the viewers interest to watch the entire commercial, instead of FF their DVR through it. So, yeah, a quirky placement of Mr. Roboto gets chosen...because it adds a bit of humor, maybe some nostalgia, and keeps the viewer interested...Not much to do with being able to hum the melody.

No I do not agree with you, I did not apologize, and I did not contradict myself. There is simply no getting around the fact that the vast majority of Styx' commercial success derived from Dennis' songs. To say otherwise is just flat wrong. If you dispute that, then you dispute it in the face of demonstrable facts that everyone in the world is capable of looking up for himself. That's your choice, but it's not fact. That's not to take anything from Tommy, whose writing was important to the band. But not nearly AS important. Numbers do not lie. People have agendas. Math does not.

Yes, radio still plays some of Tommy's songs, albeit primarily in one format. Radio still plays Dennis' songs in multiple formats - just like they did when they were contemporary singles. Which is WHY they were such hits in the first place. Let's not forget that the only Styx singles to sell half a million copies as 45s were "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto". That means that ordinary, everyday working people chose to spend their money on those two songs more than any other songs the band ever released. That is a fact demonstrable by numbers. It is not my opinion.

As far as commercials and movies, VW may have chosen "Roboto" for some tongue-in-cheek value, obviously, but songs like CSA, "Babe", "Best Of Times" and to a lesser extent "Lady" have been used all over the place, and that's almost certainly because the music supervisors of those movies/shows are in my same age range and grew up with the band, and saw opportunities to use the music in ways that underscore the content. Dennis' songs tend to be somewhat cinematic anyway, so it's not a stretch to put them in there. And of course they look for the widest exposure, what else would they look for? If you're going to use a Styx song in a piece of work for wide release, what possible reason could you have for choosing one that's not as well-known? You're going to look for the biggest hits and gee, looky there, most of them are from Dennis. That's not an insult to Tommy, it's simple marketing 101. Why do you suppose all the label compilations lean so heavily on DDY songs? Because they want to sell records, by golly. That's why.


Sterling

they're styx's songs sterling. not tommy's, not dennis' and not jy's...they are styx songs

Didn't you get banned? Why are you back? Please go away.

[Boomchild]

I am saying that they are still playing songs that DDY was responsible for because of the impact those songs had on Styx's success while trying to erase DDY from Styx's history. For example, at one point they rewrote the band history section on Styxworld to remove any mention of Dennis DeYoung being in the band.

True. But, that was also shortly after the lawsuit, or shortly before it was settled. How do you know if the intention was to follow Dennis' wishes in the settlement, to remove his name from any advertisement for the band? I say you are just guessing and are allowing your own prejudices to affect your opinion on things.

That is certainly possible. However, I don't think that DDY would have a problem with them including information on his contributions to the band's past history. I'm sure he would have an issue if the band was using it to promote the current band. Based on the comments made about DDY by current members of the band I think that they chose to leave DDY out of the history of the band. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

As far as the other members taking a back seat to DDY, if they chose to do that it was their decision to do so. They shouldn't bitch about it after the fact since they all had equal voting rights to turn down things that they felt should not have been done.

And, you continue to ignore the fact that they DIDN'T put up with it. They kicked him out of the band for a time. Tommy left after Kilroy because of the direction the band was taking. They finally fired him for good after BNW. The band REPEATEDLY gave him warning to change his attitude and ego...and he ignored it until he was finally fired.

I am not ignoring anything. I am pointing out that they had just as much voting power as DDY on band decisions. If they didn't like it back then they had the power to stop him by voting against his decisions. But they didn't, that's their fault not DDY's. Now they want to revise history by bitching that DDY was doing all these things that they didn't agree with and act as if they were powerless to stop him. The fact that they fired him in '99 is because it was easier for them to do. They weren't in their prime anymore and the legacy of Styx was built. They now had a much better chance of going on without him then when they were in their prime.

[Boomchild]

And, you continue to ignore the fact that they DIDN'T put up with it. They kicked him out of the band for a time. Tommy left after Kilroy because of the direction the band was taking. They finally fired him for good after BNW. The band REPEATEDLY gave him warning to change his attitude and ego...and he ignored it until he was finally fired.

It's not like GWG was a heavy rockin' album. It was just as slick and poppy as Desert Moon in many ways. And then there's What If ... oy.

That's why I never 100% believed the "DDY didn't want to write rock tunes anymore" B.S. DDY could see the shift in the music landscape and purposed the direction they went. I firmly believe that if they stuck to the same format that they were doing with GI and POE, they would have hit the skids at that time. I think that DDY certainly had vision and the other members could see that and that is why they chose to keep him in the band. Even if they did not totally agree with the change in direction it was making them money and I sure that was not a problem for any of them.

[Rockwriter]

The fact is that I hear: Crystal Ball, Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Too Much Time On My Hands, Miss America, Loralie...just as often as any of DDY's 'hits'...and much more often then some of those hits. Babe, Don't Let it End, Mr. Roboto, and Show Me the Way, are perfect examples of songs that are no longer on classic rock radio, even if they once were 'hits'.

Going on about 'hits' that are not being played is irrelevant...especially when the same people who complain about this would complain if they WERE played.

Have to agree, just because something is a hit, does not mean it will be a classic song years from now.
I myself hear Shaw's songs just as much as I hear DDY's on the radio, maybe more so. There is a greater chance of hearing a classic rock song than a classic ballad.

That really depends on what you listen to. I hear Dennis' ballads all the time in this market on the AC station (Mix 92.9), especially "Babe." And I hear "Mr. Roboto" on Jack FM quite frequently. The local classic rock station here (105.9 The Rock) plays CSA, BCM and "Renegade" mostly, with a smattering of others.

Then you agree with me that Tommy's songs are played on radio just as much as Dennis', and going on about 'hits' not being performed is a bit irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Most of the songs the average person can hum from this band are his songs.

And, that contradicts what you just said above....either people know these songs, or they don't. Again, just because a song is not a hit does not mean people don't know it. Seems to me that there are just as many Tommy songs that people know as there are Dennis songs.

I also take issue with your reasoning about songs in advertising. Sure, they probably have study groups to see which songs work the best. But, I doubt being able to hum the song, or if the song is a good song, or even if they are familiar with the song at all, is what they care about. What they care about is if it helps keep the viewers interest to watch the entire commercial, instead of FF their DVR through it. So, yeah, a quirky placement of Mr. Roboto gets chosen...because it adds a bit of humor, maybe some nostalgia, and keeps the viewer interested...Not much to do with being able to hum the melody.

No I do not agree with you, I did not apologize, and I did not contradict myself. There is simply no getting around the fact that the vast majority of Styx' commercial success derived from Dennis' songs. To say otherwise is just flat wrong. If you dispute that, then you dispute it in the face of demonstrable facts that everyone in the world is capable of looking up for himself. That's your choice, but it's not fact. That's not to take anything from Tommy, whose writing was important to the band. But not nearly AS important. Numbers do not lie. People have agendas. Math does not.

Yes, radio still plays some of Tommy's songs, albeit primarily in one format. Radio still plays Dennis' songs in multiple formats - just like they did when they were contemporary singles. Which is WHY they were such hits in the first place. Let's not forget that the only Styx singles to sell half a million copies as 45s were "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto". That means that ordinary, everyday working people chose to spend their money on those two songs more than any other songs the band ever released. That is a fact demonstrable by numbers. It is not my opinion.

As far as commercials and movies, VW may have chosen "Roboto" for some tongue-in-cheek value, obviously, but songs like CSA, "Babe", "Best Of Times" and to a lesser extent "Lady" have been used all over the place, and that's almost certainly because the music supervisors of those movies/shows are in my same age range and grew up with the band, and saw opportunities to use the music in ways that underscore the content. Dennis' songs tend to be somewhat cinematic anyway, so it's not a stretch to put them in there. And of course they look for the widest exposure, what else would they look for? If you're going to use a Styx song in a piece of work for wide release, what possible reason could you have for choosing one that's not as well-known? You're going to look for the biggest hits and gee, looky there, most of them are from Dennis. That's not an insult to Tommy, it's simple marketing 101. Why do you suppose all the label compilations lean so heavily on DDY songs? Because they want to sell records, by golly. That's why.


Sterling

they're styx's songs sterling. not tommy's, not dennis' and not jy's...they are styx songs

I think it's a bit convenient to have the band itself deny a lot of those songs and say they make them cringe, then turn around and say they're all Styx songs and they all played a role in them. What role did JY, for instance, play in "Babe?" Or "The Best of Times?"

Sterling

[chickenbeef]

The fact is that I hear: Crystal Ball, Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Too Much Time On My Hands, Miss America, Loralie...just as often as any of DDY's 'hits'...and much more often then some of those hits. Babe, Don't Let it End, Mr. Roboto, and Show Me the Way, are perfect examples of songs that are no longer on classic rock radio, even if they once were 'hits'.

Going on about 'hits' that are not being played is irrelevant...especially when the same people who complain about this would complain if they WERE played.

Have to agree, just because something is a hit, does not mean it will be a classic song years from now.
I myself hear Shaw's songs just as much as I hear DDY's on the radio, maybe more so. There is a greater chance of hearing a classic rock song than a classic ballad.

That really depends on what you listen to. I hear Dennis' ballads all the time in this market on the AC station (Mix 92.9), especially "Babe." And I hear "Mr. Roboto" on Jack FM quite frequently. The local classic rock station here (105.9 The Rock) plays CSA, BCM and "Renegade" mostly, with a smattering of others.

Then you agree with me that Tommy's songs are played on radio just as much as Dennis', and going on about 'hits' not being performed is a bit irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Most of the songs the average person can hum from this band are his songs.

And, that contradicts what you just said above....either people know these songs, or they don't. Again, just because a song is not a hit does not mean people don't know it. Seems to me that there are just as many Tommy songs that people know as there are Dennis songs.

I also take issue with your reasoning about songs in advertising. Sure, they probably have study groups to see which songs work the best. But, I doubt being able to hum the song, or if the song is a good song, or even if they are familiar with the song at all, is what they care about. What they care about is if it helps keep the viewers interest to watch the entire commercial, instead of FF their DVR through it. So, yeah, a quirky placement of Mr. Roboto gets chosen...because it adds a bit of humor, maybe some nostalgia, and keeps the viewer interested...Not much to do with being able to hum the melody.

No I do not agree with you, I did not apologize, and I did not contradict myself. There is simply no getting around the fact that the vast majority of Styx' commercial success derived from Dennis' songs. To say otherwise is just flat wrong. If you dispute that, then you dispute it in the face of demonstrable facts that everyone in the world is capable of looking up for himself. That's your choice, but it's not fact. That's not to take anything from Tommy, whose writing was important to the band. But not nearly AS important. Numbers do not lie. People have agendas. Math does not.

Yes, radio still plays some of Tommy's songs, albeit primarily in one format. Radio still plays Dennis' songs in multiple formats - just like they did when they were contemporary singles. Which is WHY they were such hits in the first place. Let's not forget that the only Styx singles to sell half a million copies as 45s were "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto". That means that ordinary, everyday working people chose to spend their money on those two songs more than any other songs the band ever released. That is a fact demonstrable by numbers. It is not my opinion.

As far as commercials and movies, VW may have chosen "Roboto" for some tongue-in-cheek value, obviously, but songs like CSA, "Babe", "Best Of Times" and to a lesser extent "Lady" have been used all over the place, and that's almost certainly because the music supervisors of those movies/shows are in my same age range and grew up with the band, and saw opportunities to use the music in ways that underscore the content. Dennis' songs tend to be somewhat cinematic anyway, so it's not a stretch to put them in there. And of course they look for the widest exposure, what else would they look for? If you're going to use a Styx song in a piece of work for wide release, what possible reason could you have for choosing one that's not as well-known? You're going to look for the biggest hits and gee, looky there, most of them are from Dennis. That's not an insult to Tommy, it's simple marketing 101. Why do you suppose all the label compilations lean so heavily on DDY songs? Because they want to sell records, by golly. That's why.


Sterling

they're styx's songs sterling. not tommy's, not dennis' and not jy's...they are styx songs

I think it's a bit convenient to have the band itself deny a lot of those songs and say they make them cringe, then turn around and say they're all Styx songs and they all played a role in them. What role did JY, for instance, play in "Babe?" Or "The Best of Times?"

Sterling

doesn't matter what role he played in those songs. they're styx songs and good for styx no matter how crappy one of them is.

[Boomchild]

The fact is that I hear: Crystal Ball, Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Too Much Time On My Hands, Miss America, Loralie...just as often as any of DDY's 'hits'...and much more often then some of those hits. Babe, Don't Let it End, Mr. Roboto, and Show Me the Way, are perfect examples of songs that are no longer on classic rock radio, even if they once were 'hits'.

Going on about 'hits' that are not being played is irrelevant...especially when the same people who complain about this would complain if they WERE played.

Have to agree, just because something is a hit, does not mean it will be a classic song years from now.
I myself hear Shaw's songs just as much as I hear DDY's on the radio, maybe more so. There is a greater chance of hearing a classic rock song than a classic ballad.

That really depends on what you listen to. I hear Dennis' ballads all the time in this market on the AC station (Mix 92.9), especially "Babe." And I hear "Mr. Roboto" on Jack FM quite frequently. The local classic rock station here (105.9 The Rock) plays CSA, BCM and "Renegade" mostly, with a smattering of others.

Then you agree with me that Tommy's songs are played on radio just as much as Dennis', and going on about 'hits' not being performed is a bit irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Most of the songs the average person can hum from this band are his songs.

And, that contradicts what you just said above....either people know these songs, or they don't. Again, just because a song is not a hit does not mean people don't know it. Seems to me that there are just as many Tommy songs that people know as there are Dennis songs.

I also take issue with your reasoning about songs in advertising. Sure, they probably have study groups to see which songs work the best. But, I doubt being able to hum the song, or if the song is a good song, or even if they are familiar with the song at all, is what they care about. What they care about is if it helps keep the viewers interest to watch the entire commercial, instead of FF their DVR through it. So, yeah, a quirky placement of Mr. Roboto gets chosen...because it adds a bit of humor, maybe some nostalgia, and keeps the viewer interested...Not much to do with being able to hum the melody.

No I do not agree with you, I did not apologize, and I did not contradict myself. There is simply no getting around the fact that the vast majority of Styx' commercial success derived from Dennis' songs. To say otherwise is just flat wrong. If you dispute that, then you dispute it in the face of demonstrable facts that everyone in the world is capable of looking up for himself. That's your choice, but it's not fact. That's not to take anything from Tommy, whose writing was important to the band. But not nearly AS important. Numbers do not lie. People have agendas. Math does not.

Yes, radio still plays some of Tommy's songs, albeit primarily in one format. Radio still plays Dennis' songs in multiple formats - just like they did when they were contemporary singles. Which is WHY they were such hits in the first place. Let's not forget that the only Styx singles to sell half a million copies as 45s were "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto". That means that ordinary, everyday working people chose to spend their money on those two songs more than any other songs the band ever released. That is a fact demonstrable by numbers. It is not my opinion.

As far as commercials and movies, VW may have chosen "Roboto" for some tongue-in-cheek value, obviously, but songs like CSA, "Babe", "Best Of Times" and to a lesser extent "Lady" have been used all over the place, and that's almost certainly because the music supervisors of those movies/shows are in my same age range and grew up with the band, and saw opportunities to use the music in ways that underscore the content. Dennis' songs tend to be somewhat cinematic anyway, so it's not a stretch to put them in there. And of course they look for the widest exposure, what else would they look for? If you're going to use a Styx song in a piece of work for wide release, what possible reason could you have for choosing one that's not as well-known? You're going to look for the biggest hits and gee, looky there, most of them are from Dennis. That's not an insult to Tommy, it's simple marketing 101. Why do you suppose all the label compilations lean so heavily on DDY songs? Because they want to sell records, by golly. That's why.


Sterling

they're styx's songs sterling. not tommy's, not dennis' and not jy's...they are styx songs

I think it's a bit convenient to have the band itself deny a lot of those songs and say they make them cringe, then turn around and say they're all Styx songs and they all played a role in them. What role did JY, for instance, play in "Babe?" Or "The Best of Times?"


Sterling

Ditto, So very true. You could also include Mr. Roboto.

[chickenbeef]

The fact is that I hear: Crystal Ball, Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Too Much Time On My Hands, Miss America, Loralie...just as often as any of DDY's 'hits'...and much more often then some of those hits. Babe, Don't Let it End, Mr. Roboto, and Show Me the Way, are perfect examples of songs that are no longer on classic rock radio, even if they once were 'hits'.

Going on about 'hits' that are not being played is irrelevant...especially when the same people who complain about this would complain if they WERE played.

Have to agree, just because something is a hit, does not mean it will be a classic song years from now.
I myself hear Shaw's songs just as much as I hear DDY's on the radio, maybe more so. There is a greater chance of hearing a classic rock song than a classic ballad.

That really depends on what you listen to. I hear Dennis' ballads all the time in this market on the AC station (Mix 92.9), especially "Babe." And I hear "Mr. Roboto" on Jack FM quite frequently. The local classic rock station here (105.9 The Rock) plays CSA, BCM and "Renegade" mostly, with a smattering of others.

Then you agree with me that Tommy's songs are played on radio just as much as Dennis', and going on about 'hits' not being performed is a bit irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Most of the songs the average person can hum from this band are his songs.

And, that contradicts what you just said above....either people know these songs, or they don't. Again, just because a song is not a hit does not mean people don't know it. Seems to me that there are just as many Tommy songs that people know as there are Dennis songs.

I also take issue with your reasoning about songs in advertising. Sure, they probably have study groups to see which songs work the best. But, I doubt being able to hum the song, or if the song is a good song, or even if they are familiar with the song at all, is what they care about. What they care about is if it helps keep the viewers interest to watch the entire commercial, instead of FF their DVR through it. So, yeah, a quirky placement of Mr. Roboto gets chosen...because it adds a bit of humor, maybe some nostalgia, and keeps the viewer interested...Not much to do with being able to hum the melody.

No I do not agree with you, I did not apologize, and I did not contradict myself. There is simply no getting around the fact that the vast majority of Styx' commercial success derived from Dennis' songs. To say otherwise is just flat wrong. If you dispute that, then you dispute it in the face of demonstrable facts that everyone in the world is capable of looking up for himself. That's your choice, but it's not fact. That's not to take anything from Tommy, whose writing was important to the band. But not nearly AS important. Numbers do not lie. People have agendas. Math does not.

Yes, radio still plays some of Tommy's songs, albeit primarily in one format. Radio still plays Dennis' songs in multiple formats - just like they did when they were contemporary singles. Which is WHY they were such hits in the first place. Let's not forget that the only Styx singles to sell half a million copies as 45s were "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto". That means that ordinary, everyday working people chose to spend their money on those two songs more than any other songs the band ever released. That is a fact demonstrable by numbers. It is not my opinion.

As far as commercials and movies, VW may have chosen "Roboto" for some tongue-in-cheek value, obviously, but songs like CSA, "Babe", "Best Of Times" and to a lesser extent "Lady" have been used all over the place, and that's almost certainly because the music supervisors of those movies/shows are in my same age range and grew up with the band, and saw opportunities to use the music in ways that underscore the content. Dennis' songs tend to be somewhat cinematic anyway, so it's not a stretch to put them in there. And of course they look for the widest exposure, what else would they look for? If you're going to use a Styx song in a piece of work for wide release, what possible reason could you have for choosing one that's not as well-known? You're going to look for the biggest hits and gee, looky there, most of them are from Dennis. That's not an insult to Tommy, it's simple marketing 101. Why do you suppose all the label compilations lean so heavily on DDY songs? Because they want to sell records, by golly. That's why.


Sterling

they're styx's songs sterling. not tommy's, not dennis' and not jy's...they are styx songs

I think it's a bit convenient to have the band itself deny a lot of those songs and say they make them cringe, then turn around and say they're all Styx songs and they all played a role in them. What role did JY, for instance, play in "Babe?" Or "The Best of Times?"


Sterling

Ditto, So very true. You could also include Mr. Roboto.

parts of roboto are good..as in the chorues which tommy wrote that they still play occasionally...other parts are pretty fruity...

[Monker]

That is certainly possible. However, I don't think that DDY would have a problem with them including information on his contributions to the band's past history. I'm sure he would have an issue if the band was using it to promote the current band. Based on the comments made about DDY by current members of the band I think that they chose to leave DDY out of the history of the band. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

You think this and you think that. The bottom line is you don't KNOW anything. It seems very probable to me that it was best to leave Dennis name out of ANY promotion. Whether that be some interview, or info on their website. That entire issue was what the lawsuit was about and doing anything that would seem to breach the settlement would be pretty stupid...

Writing Dennis out of the history of Styx is just a lame excuse for any angst or negative thoughts or feelings you have towards the band.

I am not ignoring anything.

Yes, you are. You go on about why didn't they do this and that...Well, they DID do exactly those things.

Now they want to revise history by bitching that DDY was doing all these things that they didn't agree with and act as if they were powerless to stop him.

They HAVE stopped him...they kicked him out of the band. Have you not noticed that?

The fact that they fired him in '99 is because it was easier for them to do. They weren't in their prime anymore and the legacy of Styx was built. They now had a much better chance of going on without him then when they were in their prime.

And, you just made the argument against your own question about why they didn't do something earlier. They did back then. They kick him out of the band back then too. They made a huge fuss about Kilroy and that eventually tore the band apart.

It's supposed to be a band. When one member starts taking credit for EVERYTHING then it is no longer about the band, but about that one person. That is where they were with Kilroy. That is why the "band", if that is what they really were, broke up. Tommy was better off solo where he could actually express himself outside of the control of Dennis' 'vision'. Prior to that they put up with it...probably because of the very reason you state above...if they kicked Dennis out, what kind of recording contract would they get? What kind of following would remain? "Babe" was #1, PT was a huge hit. Who do you think labels backed up? Tommy/JY or Dennis? The argument you are making, that they should have done something sooner, is absolutely ridiculous. They tried to pull him back prior to PT. They broke up the band because they were sick and tired of his BS controlling attitude. When they had the reunion album, he cried like a baby because he didn't have the same control as in the past...Only this time, they COULD kick him out. Dennis screwed himself out of Styx by treating the others like sidemen working for HIS vision, instead of like the equal bandmates that they were.

[Monker]

That's why I never 100% believed the "DDY didn't want to write rock tunes anymore" B.S. DDY could see the shift in the music landscape and purposed the direction they went.

That's just not true. The shift in the musical landscape went towards rap and grunge. Dennis adapted to neither.

I firmly believe that if they stuck to the same format that they were doing with GI and POE, they would have hit the skids at that time.

In some ways, that may be true...if they continued trying to be a Progressive rock band. But, there is a difference between that and being a rock band that has progressive music. That is the direction that Styx should have went. Instead they went pop and looking for the top 40 charts. THAT was a bad move, and what I think the band was talking about.

I think that DDY certainly had vision and the other members could see that and that is why they chose to keep him in the band. Even if they did not totally agree with the change in direction it was making them money and I sure that was not a problem for any of them.

I think you are absolutely wrong. I think your previous reasoning was correct...If they kicked him out, Styx would have lost a lot more in the way of label backing and support then they would have gained in their artistic freedom.

[Toph]

That's why I never 100% believed the "DDY didn't want to write rock tunes anymore" B.S. DDY could see the shift in the music landscape and purposed the direction they went.

That's just not true. The shift in the musical landscape went towards rap and grunge. Dennis adapted to neither.

I firmly believe that if they stuck to the same format that they were doing with GI and POE, they would have hit the skids at that time.

In some ways, that may be true...if they continued trying to be a Progressive rock band. But, there is a difference between that and being a rock band that has progressive music. That is the direction that Styx should have went. Instead they went pop and looking for the top 40 charts. THAT was a bad move, and what I think the band was talking about.

I think that DDY certainly had vision and the other members could see that and that is why they chose to keep him in the band. Even if they did not totally agree with the change in direction it was making them money and I sure that was not a problem for any of them.

I think you are absolutely wrong. I think your previous reasoning was correct...If they kicked him out, Styx would have lost a lot more in the way of label backing and support then they would have gained in their artistic freedom.

Monker, I have a question for you. As a frequent member of the Journey board, do you spew the same kind of hate and animosity toward Journey when they went from Departure to Escape? There were 4 hit singles off Escape, and three of them were ballads. They went the ballad route even moreseo than Styx but I don't understand why you don't have the same type of venom for them? Your highy inconsistent at best,hypocritcal at worst. or maybe DDY just didn't give you an autograph once and you've decided that he is Satan incarnate.

[Boomchild]

The fact is that I hear: Crystal Ball, Renegade, Blue Collar Man, Too Much Time On My Hands, Miss America, Loralie...just as often as any of DDY's 'hits'...and much more often then some of those hits. Babe, Don't Let it End, Mr. Roboto, and Show Me the Way, are perfect examples of songs that are no longer on classic rock radio, even if they once were 'hits'.

Going on about 'hits' that are not being played is irrelevant...especially when the same people who complain about this would complain if they WERE played.

Have to agree, just because something is a hit, does not mean it will be a classic song years from now.
I myself hear Shaw's songs just as much as I hear DDY's on the radio, maybe more so. There is a greater chance of hearing a classic rock song than a classic ballad.

That really depends on what you listen to. I hear Dennis' ballads all the time in this market on the AC station (Mix 92.9), especially "Babe." And I hear "Mr. Roboto" on Jack FM quite frequently. The local classic rock station here (105.9 The Rock) plays CSA, BCM and "Renegade" mostly, with a smattering of others.

Then you agree with me that Tommy's songs are played on radio just as much as Dennis', and going on about 'hits' not being performed is a bit irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Most of the songs the average person can hum from this band are his songs.

And, that contradicts what you just said above....either people know these songs, or they don't. Again, just because a song is not a hit does not mean people don't know it. Seems to me that there are just as many Tommy songs that people know as there are Dennis songs.

I also take issue with your reasoning about songs in advertising. Sure, they probably have study groups to see which songs work the best. But, I doubt being able to hum the song, or if the song is a good song, or even if they are familiar with the song at all, is what they care about. What they care about is if it helps keep the viewers interest to watch the entire commercial, instead of FF their DVR through it. So, yeah, a quirky placement of Mr. Roboto gets chosen...because it adds a bit of humor, maybe some nostalgia, and keeps the viewer interested...Not much to do with being able to hum the melody.

No I do not agree with you, I did not apologize, and I did not contradict myself. There is simply no getting around the fact that the vast majority of Styx' commercial success derived from Dennis' songs. To say otherwise is just flat wrong. If you dispute that, then you dispute it in the face of demonstrable facts that everyone in the world is capable of looking up for himself. That's your choice, but it's not fact. That's not to take anything from Tommy, whose writing was important to the band. But not nearly AS important. Numbers do not lie. People have agendas. Math does not.

Yes, radio still plays some of Tommy's songs, albeit primarily in one format. Radio still plays Dennis' songs in multiple formats - just like they did when they were contemporary singles. Which is WHY they were such hits in the first place. Let's not forget that the only Styx singles to sell half a million copies as 45s were "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto". That means that ordinary, everyday working people chose to spend their money on those two songs more than any other songs the band ever released. That is a fact demonstrable by numbers. It is not my opinion.

As far as commercials and movies, VW may have chosen "Roboto" for some tongue-in-cheek value, obviously, but songs like CSA, "Babe", "Best Of Times" and to a lesser extent "Lady" have been used all over the place, and that's almost certainly because the music supervisors of those movies/shows are in my same age range and grew up with the band, and saw opportunities to use the music in ways that underscore the content. Dennis' songs tend to be somewhat cinematic anyway, so it's not a stretch to put them in there. And of course they look for the widest exposure, what else would they look for? If you're going to use a Styx song in a piece of work for wide release, what possible reason could you have for choosing one that's not as well-known? You're going to look for the biggest hits and gee, looky there, most of them are from Dennis. That's not an insult to Tommy, it's simple marketing 101. Why do you suppose all the label compilations lean so heavily on DDY songs? Because they want to sell records, by golly. That's why.


Sterling

they're styx's songs sterling. not tommy's, not dennis' and not jy's...they are styx songs

I think it's a bit convenient to have the band itself deny a lot of those songs and say they make them cringe, then turn around and say they're all Styx songs and they all played a role in them. What role did JY, for instance, play in "Babe?" Or "The Best of Times?"


Sterling

Ditto, So very true. You could also include Mr. Roboto.

parts of roboto are good..as in the chorues which tommy wrote that they still play occasionally...other parts are pretty fruity...

Never like it that much. DDY even stated that he wasn't expecting it to be any kind of master piece. The recorded company chose to use it as a single. I can't stand it when DDY performs it live.

[Boomchild]

That is certainly possible. However, I don't think that DDY would have a problem with them including information on his contributions to the band's past history. I'm sure he would have an issue if the band was using it to promote the current band. Based on the comments made about DDY by current members of the band I think that they chose to leave DDY out of the history of the band. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

You think this and you think that. The bottom line is you don't KNOW anything. It seems very probable to me that it was best to leave Dennis name out of ANY promotion. Whether that be some interview, or info on their website. That entire issue was what the lawsuit was about and doing anything that would seem to breach the settlement would be pretty stupid...

Writing Dennis out of the history of Styx is just a lame excuse for any angst or negative thoughts or feelings you have towards the band.

That's your opinion, you do not know for sure either.

I am not ignoring anything.

Yes, you are. You go on about why didn't they do this and that...Well, they DID do exactly those things.

Now they want to revise history by bitching that DDY was doing all these things that they didn't agree with and act as if they were powerless to stop him.

They HAVE stopped him...they kicked him out of the band. Have you not noticed that?

The fact that they fired him in '99 is because it was easier for them to do. They weren't in their prime anymore and the legacy of Styx was built. They now had a much better chance of going on without him then when they were in their prime.

And, you just made the argument against your own question about why they didn't do something earlier. They did back then. They kick him out of the band back then too. They made a huge fuss about Kilroy and that eventually tore the band apart.

It's supposed to be a band. When one member starts taking credit for EVERYTHING then it is no longer about the band, but about that one person. That is where they were with Kilroy. That is why the "band", if that is what they really were, broke up. Tommy was better off solo where he could actually express himself outside of the control of Dennis' 'vision'. Prior to that they put up with it...probably because of the very reason you state above...if they kicked Dennis out, what kind of recording contract would they get? What kind of following would remain? "Babe" was #1, PT was a huge hit. Who do you think labels backed up? Tommy/JY or Dennis? The argument you are making, that they should have done something sooner, is absolutely ridiculous. They tried to pull him back prior to PT. They broke up the band because they were sick and tired of his BS controlling attitude. When they had the reunion album, he cried like a baby because he didn't have the same control as in the past...Only this time, they COULD kick him out. Dennis screwed himself out of Styx by treating the others like sidemen working for HIS vision, instead of like the equal bandmates that they were.

DDY never claimed he did EVERYTHING. In fact, he has stated that Styx was the combined efforts of all of them before and after the split. He said he did not want to continue on without TS when they split in '83 but the others did. This situation about he had total control is over blown. And if it is not then it was because the other members let him do it. It's simple math, 5 votes to 1 vote. They could have easily shut him down way before '99 but did not for reasons they only know. I am just saying if they choose to let things unfold as they did and didn't using their voting power to halt it, it's THEIR FAULT. Don't act like he was a runaway train and they could not have stopped it. If you can't see that then I don't know how else to put it.

[Boomchild]

That's why I never 100% believed the "DDY didn't want to write rock tunes anymore" B.S. DDY could see the shift in the music landscape and purposed the direction they went.

That's just not true. The shift in the musical landscape went towards rap and grunge. Dennis adapted to neither.

That wasn't till later in the 80's, I talking about when Cornerstone came out, the early 80's.

I firmly believe that if they stuck to the same format that they were doing with GI and POE, they would have hit the skids at that time.

In some ways, that may be true...if they continued trying to be a Progressive rock band. But, there is a difference between that and being a rock band that has progressive music. That is the direction that Styx should have went. Instead they went pop and looking for the top 40 charts. THAT was a bad move, and what I think the band was talking about.

I think that DDY certainly had vision and the other members could see that and that is why they chose to keep him in the band. Even if they did not totally agree with the change in direction it was making them money and I sure that was not a problem for any of them.

I think you are absolutely wrong. I think your previous reasoning was correct...If they kicked him out, Styx would have lost a lot more in the way of label backing and support then they would have gained in their artistic freedom.