Sharia law here in Michigan. Unbelievable

[G.I.Jim]

Then who the fuck would want to be an angel???

AHEM!!!!!!

I didn't know you're name was "Angel".

It's not, I just play one on MR.

You'll always be Angel to me!

[Michigan Girl]

angels have no particular sex!!!

Then who the fuck would want to be an angel??? I don't think I have to worry, though.

lol ...
You'll be there ...suffering!! I'll get to watch, of course ...at least one of us will be rewarded
by God's Grace!! *angel Face*

[Everett]

Then who the fuck would want to be an angel???

AHEM!!!!!!

I didn't know you're name was "Angel".

It's not, I just play one on MR.

You'll always be Angel to me!

Does your wife know what you do on the computer jim?

[Angel]

Then who the fuck would want to be an angel???

AHEM!!!!!!

I didn't know you're name was "Angel".

It's not, I just play one on MR.

You'll always be Angel to me!

Well, that's what a few hundred bucks will get ya!

[G.I.Jim]

Then who the fuck would want to be an angel???

AHEM!!!!!!

I didn't know you're name was "Angel".

It's not, I just play one on MR.

You'll always be Angel to me!

Does your wife know what you do on the computer jim?

Yeah... of COURSE she knows what I'm doing in here... when she's asleep. She's read a lot of my stuff in here before. She cracks up at how heated I've gotten in here before during some of the arguments I've been. It's always funny to look back, because some of the arguments were so retarded and meaningless. who the hell's gonna care in a week about any of these arguments? Do they ever change one's point of view? NOPE!

Not saying I was right or wrong (although many times I KNEW I was in the right), but it's funny that I even let people hundreds or even thousands of miles away from me get under my skin. Why didn't I just be the mature one and walk away from the computer? I'm just hot headed sometimes, and there are some EXTREMELY ignorant people on this planet.

[Michigan Girl]

Are you explaining yourselF ...to Everett?!?

[Everett]

Are you explaining yourselF ...to Everett?!?

You act like that's a bad thing?

[G.I.Jim]

Are you explaining yourselF ...to Everett?!?

No, I guess I was just talking to myself out loud.

[Michigan Girl]

Are you explaining yourselF ...to Everett?!?

You act like that's a bad thing?

Of course not, just nosey?!?

[Angel]

Are you explaining yourselF ...to Everett?!?

No, I guess I was just talking to myself out loud.

Forget your medicine again today, sweetie??

[portland]

Are you explaining yourselF ...to Everett?!?

No, I guess I was just talking to myself out loud.

Okay....

[G.I.Jim]

Are you explaining yourselF ...to Everett?!?

No, I guess I was just talking to myself out loud.

Forget your medicine again today, sweetie??

Yep... maybe that's the problem. On that note, it's sleepy time. You all have a good night.

[Rick]

So do those of you who are against religion consider yourselves atheists? You obviously don't believe in God if you don't believe in religion. Religion (any religion) is man's attempt to be close to their God, whether it is a christian, jew, muslim... Religion is a HUMAN creation, though, and as such there will be mistakes (sometimes horrible mistakes) made in the name of God. Obviously there are fringe elements out there, but 'religion' in an of itself is a good thing. It is generally a very inclusive thing, designed to allow persons of a particular faith to come together in shared interest to worship and practice their faith.

Those of you who don't like to be stereotyped (BobbyinTN et al) because of your particular traits should avoid doing the same to others. You can't paint us all with the same brush. I'm sure there are 'religious' people out there who have been cruel and unaccepting of you. Not all christians are that way though. Accept it or not, our nation was created with a christian undertone. Our moving away from that is what has eroded our nation, not made it stronger. IMO.

The best part about it is that even though you shun God and the religions that worship Him, He never stops loving you.

I agree with some points and disagree with others. But surprise, huh?

Firstly, people that don't believe in religion do not necessarily not believe in God. Religion, as you said, is a man made creation, so how could God have anything to do with that? Religion divides people, and you cannot deny that fact.

Where in the bible does God want people to be divided? I'll tell you, only once, sinners from Christians. Nowhere in the bible does it say that you should belong to this church or the other.

I heard my grandmother say, if not once, a thousand times, and she was in the Church of Christ. She would say "Jesus said, upon this rock I build my church." And with that thinking she thought The Church of Christ was the holy temple. And I loved that woman with all of my heart, but even as a child, I thought those preachings were wrong. But good for her, she had strong beliefs, and I sincerely hope she has a nice place in heaven, because she was one of the best people I've ever known. Along side of my grandfather, who was also one of the best people I've ever known. And I miss them dearly.

And, if there is a heaven, they may frown on me for thinking the way I do, but I hope they know they were the very people that taught me how to love people of all factions of life, no matter their beliefs or other persuasions. Religious beliefs, or other. They were good, good people. But I don't agree with them on religion, nor do I believe with you on them. As I said in another post, I'm not sure there is a God, and I tend to believe there isn't.

No secondly, I'm spent.

[Sarah]

I just hope if there is a god or gods that they aren't as strict as the Christian one. It's near impossible to meet the rules in the Bible, and every sect of Christianity interprets sins differently and how you can be forgiven, so either a tiny amount of souls who followed the right set of rules get into heaven and the rest are sent to eternal pain and suffering (wow, eternal suffering regardless of the sin), or everyone who believed in Jesus and wasn't a horrible person in general gets into heaven...?

If it's only important that you believe in Jesus and love thy neighbor, then are the other rules just there as bonuses?
Does God judge in black and white? Eternal bliss or eternal pain?
Does he give second chances or is it just "you read it wrong, enjoy eternal damnation"?
Will eating meat on a Friday make someone a bad person?
Is someone who has to work on a Sunday to support their family going to hell?
Are people supposed to love their neighbor always? Or is that love not necessary if the person is gay or something else that many Christians oppose? Or do you "love" them by stopping their actions via laws? Does God judge those types of interpretations in black or white, i.e. if God meant "love thy neighbor except if he's gay" and you thought it meant "love thy neighbor, period" do you get punished for loving your gay neighbor as you would anyone else?

These are serious questions I wonder about and I'm sure the Christians here can answer them, but I'm also sure that some of them will have different answer than others! That's when I wonder how flexible God is in judgement, how much the slight differences matter.

When the Bible is good, it's good; I give it that. The parts about love and peace and tolerance are excellent and some are beautifully stated. But then there's a lot of doom and punishment I don't agree with. I also think it's a shame if someone lived a sinless life but chose the wrong faith, they get eternally punished.

If I was religious I'd prefer a god that doesn't actually mind what you do in general as long as you basically live and let live (except food, I guess) and judges afterlife destinations on a sliding scale.

[Arianddu]

Hitler had the right idea, but he went after only a couple selected religions. Religion is the cancer of the world. Abolish it all; by force if need be. People shouldn't be allowed to be that stupid. It's the 21st century. It should be pretty well established that there isn't some mystical force controlling everything.

If you're going to throw out highly provocative statements like this you might want to get your facts straight. The Nazis (not just Hitler) didn't target anyone because of religion. The Jews were targeted as an ethnic group, just like the Gypsies, non-whites and Slavs were targeted, not as a religious group. Jehovah's Witnesses were targeted not because they were a religious group, but because the philosophy they espoused set them against the rhetoric of the Nazis; they were targeted for the same reasons intellectuals, Communists, pacifists, Humanists and Trade Unionists were targeted, because they actively spoke out against and argued against the Nazis agenda and politics.

BTW, given we've invoked Godwin's Law, this discussion should be over already.

[artist4perry]

Hitler had the right idea, but he went after only a couple selected religions. Religion is the cancer of the world. Abolish it all; by force if need be. People shouldn't be allowed to be that stupid. It's the 21st century. It should be pretty well established that there isn't some mystical force controlling everything.

If you're going to throw out highly provocative statements like this you might want to get your facts straight. The Nazis (not just Hitler) didn't target anyone because of religion. The Jews were targeted as an ethnic group, just like the Gypsies, non-whites and Slavs were targeted, not as a religious group. Jehovah's Witnesses were targeted not because they were a religious group, but because the philosophy they espoused set them against the rhetoric of the Nazis; they were targeted for the same reasons intellectuals, Communists, pacifists, Humanists and Trade Unionists were targeted, because they actively spoke out against and argued against the Nazis agenda and politics.

BTW, given we've invoked Godwin's Law, this discussion should be over already.

Geez, I guess according to achetype I guess I should be held before a fireing squad or arrested. I beleive in God, and not all religion is bad. I believe God is loving and teaches us how to be loving. He wants us to be good people. He knows we are not perfect, we will stumble and fall, but he loves us.

I am stupid I guess.
I beleive the order of the universe is wonderfully designed. Everything works together in harmony. I know the complexity of a blade of grass and I love the science of how each thing is made, and I study things in nature as closely as I can. I am never to know the perfection of the art of God, the beauty of his creation, but I strive to immitate it, though I sadly pale to his mastery.

But to say that people should forcibly be stopped from believing? This is the same mind set that makes people bigoted, hateful, and evil. If I don't agree with you I will force you to think as I do. What if you are wrong? What do you plan to do gas us all? People who think as you do scare me. I have no problem with someone not beleiving there is a God. But someone threatening to harm people for beleiving................or to punish us? What and who do you think you are?

[parfait]

Parfait,
Science has not been able to prove that there is no God. It also hasn't proven that there IS a God. So it will remain mystery until proven.
More often than not you seem to try to feed everyone YOUR OPINIONS as scientific proven facts.

Ad ignorantiam, dude. Ad ignorantiam.

I could say that fairies exist. You can't prove that they don't, you know. Does that make their existence likely? No, cause all scientific evidence points to the fact that fairies doesn't exist. Ever heard of Occam's razor?

Have as much faith as you want, but let me make this really clear: All scientific evidence as well as philosophical evidence points to the fact that God doesn't exist. And that's not including the fact that the bible was written by men, not God - men. Some of the stuff in the bible is so god damn wrong it's laughable. Its historical accuracy is poor at best too.

So, no - I don't try to feed everyone my opinion. I'm just being rational. But I'm not trying to take away your faith, dude - I don't give a fuck if you believe in the Glorious Newspaper of Doom and Glitter, but keep in mind that it's a faith. Nothing more, nothing else. It has no root in reality.

Did you know that we can create life now? A group of scientists have managed to build a genome from scratch and use it to make synthethic life. You don't have to be a divine entity to create life. On the same subject; humans are far from perfected. If God would have created the humans, then let me tell you: he sucks at it. We got poor bones, our eyes are weak etc.

Discuss all you want about the metaphysical God, but don't bring in science, cause the latter deals with the reality.

[artist4perry]

I want to see a scientist make something from nothing. Where did life come from? A question not answered to this day. If a scientist creates life he has to use God's materials to do it. That is not creation. Brother I am so sick of this age old arguement. Wich came first God or the Scientist. The scientist willfully says he was first there is no God. God laughs and says I created you from dirt, lets see you do the same. The scientist stares at the jar of dirt. After a while the scientist says in billions of billions of years this dirt will turn into a worm, then a fish, then it will crawl on the land and change to a monkey, then it will change again till it becomes a man. God laughs, and says it took me a day to create you. You need billion and billions of years. O.K. I have all of eternity to wait. So he sits and stares at the jar of dirt. In time the scientist dies and he too returns to the earth, decayed and became dirt. Billions and Billions of years went by. A scientist found a jar of dirt on the ground. And says I found a jar of dirt. I am a genius, there is no God.

The monkeys, the worm, and the fish still exist. Either they chose not to rise from the earth and evolve, or they are as they always were, a monkey, a worm and a fish. Man is man as he was created. But only man is stupid enough to think he can create something out of nothing. For every scientist knows you cannot create something from nothing. And one species does not change to another species. There are no transitional bones. There should be millions of them. After all this is their iron clad belief. Yet they say everything changed so gradually we could not see it? And you say I am crazy for believing in a higher being? I tell you what ..................get a jar of dirt.

And know that I love you.

[G.I.Jim]

Parfait,
Science has not been able to prove that there is no God. It also hasn't proven that there IS a God. So it will remain mystery until proven.
More often than not you seem to try to feed everyone YOUR OPINIONS as scientific proven facts.

Ad ignorantiam, dude. Ad ignorantiam.

I could say that fairies exist. You can't prove that they don't, you know. Does that make their existence likely? No, cause all scientific evidence points to the fact that fairies doesn't exist. Ever heard of Occam's razor?

Have as much faith as you want, but let me make this really clear: All scientific evidence as well as philosophical evidence points to the fact that God doesn't exist. And that's not including the fact that the bible was written by men, not God - men. Some of the stuff in the bible is so god damn wrong it's laughable. Its historical accuracy is poor at best too.

So, no - I don't try to feed everyone my opinion. I'm just being rational. But I'm not trying to take away your faith, dude - I don't give a fuck if you believe in the Glorious Newspaper of Doom and Glitter, but keep in mind that it's a faith. Nothing more, nothing else. It has no root in reality.

Did you know that we can create life now? A group of scientists have managed to build a genome from scratch and use it to make synthethic life. You don't have to be a divine entity to create life. On the same subject; humans are far from perfected. If God would have created the humans, then let me tell you: he sucks at it. We got poor bones, our eyes are weak etc.

Discuss all you want about the metaphysical God, but don't bring in science, cause the latter deals with the reality.

Can you provide a link to this scientific discovery? I'd love to read it.

[Behshad]

Parfait,
Science has not been able to prove that there is no God. It also hasn't proven that there IS a God. So it will remain mystery until proven.
More often than not you seem to try to feed everyone YOUR OPINIONS as scientific proven facts.

Ad ignorantiam, dude. Ad ignorantiam.

I could say that fairies exist. You can't prove that they don't, you know. Does that make their existence likely? No, cause all scientific evidence points to the fact that fairies doesn't exist. Ever heard of Occam's razor?

Have as much faith as you want, but let me make this really clear: All scientific evidence as well as philosophical evidence points to the fact that God doesn't exist. And that's not including the fact that the bible was written by men, not God - men. Some of the stuff in the bible is so god damn wrong it's laughable. Its historical accuracy is poor at best too.

So, no - I don't try to feed everyone my opinion. I'm just being rational. But I'm not trying to take away your faith, dude - I don't give a fuck if you believe in the Glorious Newspaper of Doom and Glitter, but keep in mind that it's a faith. Nothing more, nothing else. It has no root in reality.

Did you know that we can create life now? A group of scientists have managed to build a genome from scratch and use it to make synthethic life. You don't have to be a divine entity to create life. On the same subject; humans are far from perfected. If God would have created the humans, then let me tell you: he sucks at it. We got poor bones, our eyes are weak etc.

Discuss all you want about the metaphysical God, but don't bring in science, cause the latter deals with the reality.

You put down the Bible (which I personally dont believe in) cause it was written by MEN,,,,,, yet you brag about science , which ,surprise, is also produced by MEN !
2000 years ago, those guys , WERE the scientists.,,,,, and I bet you 2000 years from now, they will laugh at half the stuff that OUR TIMES scientists "point to" and "prove" or have Theories about!
And poor bones and bad eyes doesnt mean that it proves that God DIDNT create us. God had no plans to create a perfect creature,,, he created all different kinds of creatures, but made the human beings as the one creature above them all.

Science deals with reality but also deals with theories, something you never understood and never will!

[artist4perry]

I want to see a scientist make something from nothing. Where did life come from? A question not answered to this day. If a scientist creates life he has to use God's materials to do it. That is not creation. Brother I am so sick of this age old arguement. Wich came first God or the Scientist. The scientist willfully says he was first there is no God. God laughs and says I created you from dirt, lets see you do the same. The scientist stares at the jar of dirt. After a while the scientist says in billions of billions of years this dirt will turn into a worm, then a fish, then it will crawl on the land and change to a monkey, then it will change again till it becomes a man. God laughs, and says it took me a day to create you. You need billion and billions of years. O.K. I have all of eternity to wait. So he sits and stares at the jar of dirt. In time the scientist dies and he too returns to the earth, decayed and became dirt. Billions and Billions of years went by. A scientist found a jar of dirt on the ground. And says I found a jar of dirt. I am a genius, there is no God.

The monkeys, the worm, and the fish still exist. Either they chose not to rise from the earth and evolve, or they are as they always were, a monkey, a worm and a fish. Man is man as he was created. But only man is stupid enough to think he can create something out of nothing. For every scientist knows you cannot create something from nothing. And one species does not change to another species. There are no transitional bones. There should be millions of them. After all this is their iron clad belief. Yet they say everything changed so gradually we could not see it? And you say I am crazy for believing in a higher being? I tell you what ..................get a jar of dirt.

And know that I love you.

Sorry I went to change the spelling and for some reason it quoted me instead. This is what I get for writing so early in the morning.

I still love you guys. I just made up the story above, thought it would give you my perspective.
As for our poor bones.............we were made from the earth and were made to return to the earth. This is natural progression of life. We are born, we live, we die and face our eternal life after this one. If I am wrong, I am dead like rover all over. My peaceful belief in God did no harm to anyone, it helped me to find solice when I was alone, and peace when I left this life. If I am right.................that scientist gets to face God with his jar of dirt.

[parfait]

Parfait,
Science has not been able to prove that there is no God. It also hasn't proven that there IS a God. So it will remain mystery until proven.
More often than not you seem to try to feed everyone YOUR OPINIONS as scientific proven facts.

Ad ignorantiam, dude. Ad ignorantiam.

I could say that fairies exist. You can't prove that they don't, you know. Does that make their existence likely? No, cause all scientific evidence points to the fact that fairies doesn't exist. Ever heard of Occam's razor?

Have as much faith as you want, but let me make this really clear: All scientific evidence as well as philosophical evidence points to the fact that God doesn't exist. And that's not including the fact that the bible was written by men, not God - men. Some of the stuff in the bible is so god damn wrong it's laughable. Its historical accuracy is poor at best too.

So, no - I don't try to feed everyone my opinion. I'm just being rational. But I'm not trying to take away your faith, dude - I don't give a fuck if you believe in the Glorious Newspaper of Doom and Glitter, but keep in mind that it's a faith. Nothing more, nothing else. It has no root in reality.

Did you know that we can create life now? A group of scientists have managed to build a genome from scratch and use it to make synthethic life. You don't have to be a divine entity to create life. On the same subject; humans are far from perfected. If God would have created the humans, then let me tell you: he sucks at it. We got poor bones, our eyes are weak etc.

Discuss all you want about the metaphysical God, but don't bring in science, cause the latter deals with the reality.

Can you provide a link to this scientific discovery? I'd love to read it.

Yup. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/sci;329/5987/52

You see that? Contrary to religious people, like Ginger here, who talks a lot of shit without backing one god damn thing up with evidence, I bring evidence to the table. Creating things from dirt? No transitional bones? Give me a break.



And you call yourself a teacher? At least get the facts straight! Have the faith you want, but don't come here and try to make God something real, physical omnipotent man. If you want to believe in a after life, then that's your choice. But remember that there's a difference between reality and fantasy.

And no, Beshad, the bible wasn't written by scientists. It was written by theists, deuteronomists and holy men. Religion had a long history in suppressing science. And dude, all scientific theories is bases on either theoretical math, chemistry or physics - that's how a experiment starts. A theoretical scientist makes a hypothesis, calculates it according the current set of laws, and gives it to a experimental scientist. If the hypothesis doesn't work, then they try again, with a new hypothesis. It's a long and difficult process. And no, in 2000 years they won't laugh at todays science, just like we don't laugh at the science of ancient Greek. Ever read up on your Aristotle for example?

[artist4perry]

What facts? I saw your drawing. Proves nothing. Show me transitional bones. Ones that exist.

I say all things are created by God. By their existance they prove his glory and worth. The way they work in a harmonic way proves their existance. How can all these things be accidental? And no, you bring me theories. I studied science too my dear. I like science. I always had straight A's in school. I studied it in college too. Had my biology teacher going off on tangents and he could not prove it to me or the class either. His final word was, creation is a myth and there will be no more discussion on the subject! He was a bit upset.

You have not proved me wrong. You have not proved you are right. Scientist when pushed on the matter say they only have a theory of how the world came to being. They cannot prove it. And you say you have proved it. No, sweetie you have not.

Believe your part worm, fish, and monkey. Explain why they still exist. I have all of eternity to wait.

Love ya parfait. But they are laughing at scientist from the past........you see they thought the world was flat, and bleeding people with leeches healed them from disease. Science is always proving theories thought sound to have flaws later. You have to understand the very nature of science is that of rechecking things that were thought right. Evolution is a theory not a proven fact. I tell you creation has as many scientific facts. You choose not to see them. That is fine. But you cannot prove your theory either.

[donnaplease]

I'm not a religious person. However I believe in God.
I don't need God to give me wealth or chance to win the lottery. I believe in God as the creator of this universe. I also do pray to him when a friend or family is sick or going through a rough times. Knowing that my prayers will not always be answered , it's still comforting to have a creator to turn to when you or your loved ones hurt the most. Even if there may not be a God , the believing is what makes you dig deep and bring up that inner strength you didn't have to the surface.

I understand what you're saying. But in reading what you're saying, you are a religious person. Just not devoutly religious. I think most of us fall into that category. I also think that many of us are afraid to admit our faith because so many people tend to pounce on you if you express it - due to the fringe element out there that scares people away or offends them. It also forces us to really look at ourselves against a standard and face our shortcomings, of which I have a lot, and that also scares people away.

We will NEVER know on this side of heaven (or hell) if there really is a "God", but the believing you mention is called faith, and it's a really comforting thing. And it does help us get through some really tough times.

You're a good guy for sharing this, Behshad.

[ohsherrie]

Nobody alive on this earth knows if there is a god or gods, or what kind of god/s it/they might be. To believe in any religion is to believe with blind faith in something that you have been taught, or indoctrinated, to believe. I haven't accepted anything on blind faith since Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Science gives me something tangible, factual rather than the fantasy and mythology created by people living in a time of ignorance.

I don't call myself an atheist because I don't think you necessarily must "be" one "thing" if your not another "thing". The only "things" that I am are a human, a female, a mother, a wife and a grandmother.

I don't like being lumped into a category whether it's a religious, political or fan (loon) category. Religion is one of the ways that humans categorize themselves. If you have branded yourself in a religion then you've lumped yourself into that category and there are many generalizations that can be made about you because of the doctrine of your chosen religion. If those generalizations don't apply to you then you are not living according to the doctrine of your religion and are therefore something of a hypocrite.

You can't be "a little bit baptist" or "almost catholic" or "sort of muslem". Either you are or you aren't.

If you don't identify yourself with any particular sect but just sort of freelance your religion then there are still several generalities that can apply to you. One of them is that you're gullible because you allow yourself to believe something for which you have no tangible proof. Since it is fact rather than opinion that religion has been the cause of more bloodshed than any other single cause and yet you still support it, one can also assume that you think it's OK to kill anybody who doesn't believe in your god. You know, sort of like Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

And no, in 2000 years they won't laugh at todays science, just like we don't laugh at the science of ancient Greek. Ever read up on your Aristotle for example?

I dunno as a Masters degree student who is focusing on Aristotleam metaphysics, logics and ethics, whilst there is much laudable and relevant I do actually think there is a fair bit of in Aristotle which is just plain wrong specifically in some of the scientific and economic areas. not laughable, but stuff we know to be wrong!

ALong the lines of the atheism issue, here is an interesting article from Anthony Flew an athiest at reading who came to the conclusin that there must be a god based on a number of investigations he made , both in the area of metaphysics and science. Im not endorsing what he's saying, but it is an interesting perspective, as someone who became a deist (not a christian, muslim, jew, ect) , he doesnt cheerlead his case like some evangelical tub thumper.

Give it a read. At least it is a thoughtful discussion unlike the craziness on this thread , which has gotta be the craziest thread I ever read on here.

http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf

[artist4perry]

Nobody alive on this earth knows if there is a god or gods, or what kind of god/s it/they might be. To believe in any religion is to believe with blind faith in something that you have been taught, or indoctrinated, to believe. I haven't accepted anything on blind faith since Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Science gives me something tangible, factual rather than the fantasy and mythology created by people living in a time of ignorance.

I don't call myself an atheist because I don't think you necessarily must "be" one "thing" if your not another "thing". The only "things" that I am are a human, a female, a mother, a wife and a grandmother.

I don't like being lumped into a category whether it's a religious, political or fan (loon) category. Religion is one of the ways that humans categorize themselves. If you have branded yourself in a religion then you've lumped yourself into that category and there are many generalizations that can be made about you because of the doctrine of your chosen religion. If those generalizations don't apply to you then you are not living according to the doctrine of your religion and are therefore something of a hypocrite.

You can't be "a little bit baptist" or "almost catholic" or "sort of muslem". Either you are or you aren't.

If you don't identify yourself with any particular sect but just sort of freelance your religion then there are still several generalities that can apply to you. One of them is that you're gullible because you allow yourself to believe something for which you have no tangible proof. Since it is fact rather than opinion that religion has been the cause of more bloodshed than any other single cause and yet you still support it, one can also assume that you think it's OK to kill anybody who doesn't believe in your god. You know, sort of like Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

Wow.......... I am sorry sherrie, but because some nut jobs killed in the past in the name of God, the dog Son of sam, or whatever they use to justify killing does not make all religious faith lumped into one catagory. How does a faith that beleives in peaceful existance, obeying the laws of the land, and helping others hurt anyone? Show me this please. Did the dog from the Son of Sam case actually make that man kill people? Do we extinguish all dogs because one supposedly told a man to kill people? You would throw the baby out with the bath water with this theory.
I am gullible I am fine with that. If that is what you have to call me to feel good about yourself. I don't force my religion on anyone. I just provided an explination of why I beleive as I do. And of course as predicted, I got trounced on. That's alright. I have argued my theory before. There was a time they did not believe in the existance of air. We cannot see it, we can only see its effects on the earth. I cannot prove there is a God. I am not trying to prove it to you. I am only telling you why I believe in God. For this I have been told I should be stopped, punished, eradicated and called a fool who believes in fairy tales. I draw whimsy and fantasy. I know this is part of my imagination. But why do we have imagination?

I have tons of questions on the origins of life, I question how nature works all the time. I study bone structures, muscles, and closely document in drawings the very miniscule features of everything I see. I have questions about theories of science, and study them often. What is the use of our existence if we are just to live, and to die, and become the dirt. We are nothing but future dust to be blown about with no hope or use. I question things of this nature all the time. You see, I love to learn things every day.

But to call me a fool because I question things, develope a theory of my own, and live to try and not do harm while on the earth makes no sense to me. You develope a theory, beleive in it, live your life to do no harm while here and yet you cannot prove your theory either. Yet if I think differently I am to be bashed, made fun of, reprimanded like a stupid child. Why is that?

[donnaplease]

I agree with some points and disagree with others. But surprise, huh?

Firstly, people that don't believe in religion do not necessarily not believe in God. Religion, as you said, is a man made creation, so how could God have anything to do with that? Religion divides people, and you cannot deny that fact.

Where in the bible does God want people to be divided? I'll tell you, only once, sinners from Christians. Nowhere in the bible does it say that you should belong to this church or the other.

I heard my grandmother say, if not once, a thousand times, and she was in the Church of Christ. She would say "Jesus said, upon this rock I build my church." And with that thinking she thought The Church of Christ was the holy temple. And I loved that woman with all of my heart, but even as a child, I thought those preachings were wrong. But good for her, she had strong beliefs, and I sincerely hope she has a nice place in heaven, because she was one of the best people I've ever known. Along side of my grandfather, who was also one of the best people I've ever known. And I miss them dearly.

And, if there is a heaven, they may frown on me for thinking the way I do, but I hope they know they were the very people that taught me how to love people of all factions of life, no matter their beliefs or other persuasions. Religious beliefs, or other. They were good, good people. But I don't agree with them on religion, nor do I believe with you on them. As I said in another post, I'm not sure there is a God, and I tend to believe there isn't.

No secondly, I'm spent.

Rick, I used to work with someone who is of the Bah'ai faith. I had never heard of that, so we spent lots of time talking about it with her explaining the basic tenets of it. The object of their 'religion' is this guy, who they feel was essentially the messiah who has already come to the earth (in the 1800's I think). The way I understand it, they believe in the christian bible, they just expand upon it to include their guy (not gonna try to spell it and too lazy to look it up). Kinda like the christain bible is an expansion of the jewish torah.

Now, I tell you that to say this: She once quoted for me something Jesus said, "in my Father's house are many mansions". She suggested that those 'mansions' are God's way of including different religions. I can visualize that in my pea brain, although I must admit I had a hard time fully understanding it.

God did divide his people. The old testament tells us that when the people attempted to build the Tower of Babel, he divided them by having them to speak 'foreign' languages. That was before there were 'christians', per se. He also divided them when he instructed Noah to build the ark. Both of those were God's attempt to turn people away from sin.

Your grandmother, God bless her, misunderstood that passage. The "rock" Jesus was referring to was the disciple Peter, the founder of the catholic church. (you probably know that). I am betting that a large part of what made your grandparents so wonderful is their faith, however misguided you may feel it was. In theory, having "religion" makes us want to be more like the object of our faith (in my case, Jesus). Now obviously there have been LOTS of instances where people use that against us, and people having hurt, stolen from, and even killed in the name of "religion". THEY are wrong, not religion. Think of all the good things that are done because of faith. Churches, hospitals, schools, and so many other things are done by missionaries to bring good to the world. Jesus does tell us to love all people, no matter what their beliefs. Judge not lest ye be judged. But he also says that the only way to the father is through him, and I gotta tell you that confuses me.

I guess my point is that we shouldn't 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' when it comes to religion. I'm not trying to 'recruit' anyone here - I struggle with 'owning my own poo' (as some musician once said ) but I do enjoy discussing this stuff. I <3 U, Rick!

[donnaplease]

But to call me a fool because I question things, develope a theory of my own, and live to try and not do harm while on the earth makes no sense to me. You develope a theory, beleive in it, live your life to do no harm while here and yet you cannot prove your theory either. Yet if I think differently I am to be bashed, made fun of, reprimanded like a stupid child. Why is that?

You know the answer, Ginger.

[artist4perry]

But to call me a fool because I question things, develope a theory of my own, and live to try and not do harm while on the earth makes no sense to me. You develope a theory, beleive in it, live your life to do no harm while here and yet you cannot prove your theory either. Yet if I think differently I am to be bashed, made fun of, reprimanded like a stupid child. Why is that?

You know the answer, Ginger.

I like what you said hon. And Rick is an inquisitive soul. I like that about him.