FEDERAL JUDGE knocks down PRO 8 in CA...

[Jana]

Homosexuals deserve the right to be married, not just a civil union. We heterosexuals have made a mess of marriage. The divorce rate is 50 percent for first marriages. Second marriages have worse statistics at 67 percent, and third marriages are even worse. There's so many affairs that go on in marriages, online hookups, emotional affairs. Then there are so many marriages where they are living as practically roommates. Where did the love go? The women focus on their children, aren't happy with their husbands, alcoholics in the marriage which ruin the intimacy in their marriage, verbal abuse, physical abuse. The husbands focus on work or golf or whatever and not their spouse because they're unhappy. Many people are tied together because of children and/or financial problems or just a fear of being alone and starting over. Yet, oh, yes, marriage is so revered by we heterosexuals and how dare two people of the same sex get married who love each other. LOL Sorry, I've worked in divorce cases too long and seen a lot of miserable marriages through co-workers, friends, suburbia.

The moral failure of heterosexual couples is no argument FOR gay marriage.

I don't have a problem with gay marriage, period. I have evolved from the days when gays were whispered about to watching gay lawyers, judges, other people I've worked with who were in the closest, and wanting an authentic life, and hearing my friend talk about the sadness he feels for staying in the closest for so long because of his religion, to me realizing why shouldn't they be married if they are living as a married couple. I have had back in the day a wonderful judge commit suicide because he was outed and felt he shamed his respected family in a small town. How sad that we all considered gays less than or perverse for so many years, when they were our relatives, our neighbors, our co-workers, our bosses, our government officials, on and on.

They are coupes in every sense of the word, partners in life, parents, etc. I no longer feel marriage is defined by a woman and man.

P.S. All of my relatives are from small towns, all Southern Baptist and not only don't believe in gay marriage, but there is still a stigma for them if they or one of their children were gay. This includes my parents, when alive. But this is what they know especially for all my elderly aunts and uncles, they are all wonderful people. But beliefs like this are deeply ingrained. Though, my mom did love Ellen and her hairdresser and she was coming around.

[RossValoryRocks]

Marriage isn't a "right"...it's a human institution...what the LGBT community has is the right to be treated EQUALLY as protected by the Constitution (14th Amendment, specifically the Equal Protection Clause "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws".)

Bobby...I understand you anger and your angst...but much like the over the top Queens that do their best to OFFEND people, so your argument strengthens peoples opposition to what you want.

You aren't coming off as anything other than a whining baby, at least that is how I percieve it...and I am on YOUR side.

[Don]

Homosexuals deserve the right to be married, not just a civil union. We heterosexuals have made a mess of marriage. The divorce rate is 50 percent for first marriages. Second marriages have worse statistics at 67 percent, and third marriages are even worse. There's so many affairs that go on in marriages, online hookups, emotional affairs. Then there are so many marriages where they are living as practically roommates. Where did the love go? The women focus on their children, aren't happy with their husbands, alcoholics in the marriage which ruin the intimacy in their marriage, verbal abuse, physical abuse. The husbands focus on work or golf or whatever and not their spouse because they're unhappy. Many people are tied together because of children and/or financial problems or just a fear of being alone and starting over. Yet, oh, yes, marriage is so revered by we heterosexuals and how dare two people of the same sex get married who love each other. LOL Sorry, I've worked in divorce cases too long and seen a lot of miserable marriages through co-workers, friends, suburbia.

Living in a gay community, I have checked up some of these figures as I can nightly hear verbal confrontations, physical abuse constantly while out walking at night. Looking at the numbers from the left viewpoint, right viewpoint and middle, it appears gay couples are around 12 times more prone to domestic violence than straight couples. When it comes to suicide, gay couples again lead the way at a 6 to one margin against straight couples.
Straight marriages may not be a walk in the park but when compared to same sex partnerships, the gay unions have the greater chance of encountering self created tragedy sometime during their relationship.

I'm not picking sides here just balancing out what was posted.

[Rick]

Homosexuals deserve the right to be married, not just a civil union. We heterosexuals have made a mess of marriage. The divorce rate is 50 percent for first marriages. Second marriages have worse statistics at 67 percent, and third marriages are even worse. There's so many affairs that go on in marriages, online hookups, emotional affairs. Then there are so many marriages where they are living as practically roommates. Where did the love go? The women focus on their children, aren't happy with their husbands, alcoholics in the marriage which ruin the intimacy in their marriage, verbal abuse, physical abuse. The husbands focus on work or golf or whatever and not their spouse because they're unhappy. Many people are tied together because of children and/or financial problems or just a fear of being alone and starting over. Yet, oh, yes, marriage is so revered by we heterosexuals and how dare two people of the same sex get married who love each other. LOL Sorry, I've worked in divorce cases too long and seen a lot of miserable marriages through co-workers, friends, suburbia.

Living in a gay community, I have checked up some of these figures as I can nightly hear verbal confrontations, physical abuse constantly while out walking at night. Looking at the numbers from the left viewpoint, right viewpoint and middle, it appears gay couples are around 12 times more prone to domestic violence than straight couples. When it comes to suicide, gay couples again lead the way at a 6 to one margin against straight couples.
Straight marriages may not be a walk in the park but when compared to same sex partnerships, the gay unions have the greater chance of encountering self created tragedy sometime during their relationship.

I'm not picking sides here just balancing out what was posted.

I didn't know you were gay Don.

[Jana]

Homosexuals deserve the right to be married, not just a civil union. We heterosexuals have made a mess of marriage. The divorce rate is 50 percent for first marriages. Second marriages have worse statistics at 67 percent, and third marriages are even worse. There's so many affairs that go on in marriages, online hookups, emotional affairs. Then there are so many marriages where they are living as practically roommates. Where did the love go? The women focus on their children, aren't happy with their husbands, alcoholics in the marriage which ruin the intimacy in their marriage, verbal abuse, physical abuse. The husbands focus on work or golf or whatever and not their spouse because they're unhappy. Many people are tied together because of children and/or financial problems or just a fear of being alone and starting over. Yet, oh, yes, marriage is so revered by we heterosexuals and how dare two people of the same sex get married who love each other. LOL Sorry, I've worked in divorce cases too long and seen a lot of miserable marriages through co-workers, friends, suburbia.

Living in a gay community, I have checked up some of these figures as I can nightly hear verbal confrontations, physical abuse constantly while out walking at night. Looking at the numbers from the left viewpoint, right viewpoint and middle, it appears gay couples are around 12 times more prone to domestic violence than straight couples. When it comes to suicide, gay couples again lead the way at a 6 to one margin against straight couples.
Straight marriages may not be a walk in the park but when compared to same sex partnerships, the gay unions have the greater chance of encountering self created tragedy sometime during their relationship.

I'm not picking sides here just balancing out what was posted.

I never said gays were going to be any better at marriage than us. I wouldn't expect it to be any better. People are people. Longterm relationships are tough.

[donnaplease]

I thought I smelled a rat in here, pulling some puppet strings. Your last post Bobby confirms it. Great job, both of you.

[Michigan Girl]

Homosexuals deserve the right to be married, not just a civil union. We heterosexuals have made a mess of marriage. The divorce rate is 50 percent for first marriages. Second marriages have worse statistics at 67 percent, and third marriages are even worse. There's so many affairs that go on in marriages, online hookups, emotional affairs. Then there are so many marriages where they are living as practically roommates. Where did the love go? The women focus on their children, aren't happy with their husbands, alcoholics in the marriage which ruin the intimacy in their marriage, verbal abuse, physical abuse. The husbands focus on work or golf or whatever and not their spouse because they're unhappy. Many people are tied together because of children and/or financial problems or just a fear of being alone and starting over. Yet, oh, yes, marriage is so revered by we heterosexuals and how dare two people of the same sex get married who love each other. LOL Sorry, I've worked in divorce cases too long and seen a lot of miserable marriages through co-workers, friends, suburbia.

The moral failure of heterosexual couples is no argument FOR gay marriage.

I agree ...I was under the impression that homosexuals were as human as hetero's ...perhaps gay divorces would be more interesting?!?!?

[Jana]

Homosexuals deserve the right to be married, not just a civil union. We heterosexuals have made a mess of marriage. The divorce rate is 50 percent for first marriages. Second marriages have worse statistics at 67 percent, and third marriages are even worse. There's so many affairs that go on in marriages, online hookups, emotional affairs. Then there are so many marriages where they are living as practically roommates. Where did the love go? The women focus on their children, aren't happy with their husbands, alcoholics in the marriage which ruin the intimacy in their marriage, verbal abuse, physical abuse. The husbands focus on work or golf or whatever and not their spouse because they're unhappy. Many people are tied together because of children and/or financial problems or just a fear of being alone and starting over. Yet, oh, yes, marriage is so revered by we heterosexuals and how dare two people of the same sex get married who love each other. LOL Sorry, I've worked in divorce cases too long and seen a lot of miserable marriages through co-workers, friends, suburbia.

The moral failure of heterosexual couples is no argument FOR gay marriage.

I agree ...I was under the impression that homosexuals were as human as hetero's ...perhaps gay divorces would be more interesting?!?!?

y

Where did I once say they would be better once in that post?

[RossValoryRocks]

I did here a funny today...kind of on topic...and if you are easily offended, DO NOT READ IT!

PS...it doen't reflect my views...


A kid who has gay parents, both men, explains to the other kids from heterosexual households that he has 2 daddys...an older kid walks by and says, "If one of them has a load of jizz on his face, on his back and oozing down his ass crack, then one of them is a mommy!"

[RossValoryRocks]

Homosexuals deserve the right to be married, not just a civil union. We heterosexuals have made a mess of marriage. The divorce rate is 50 percent for first marriages. Second marriages have worse statistics at 67 percent, and third marriages are even worse. There's so many affairs that go on in marriages, online hookups, emotional affairs. Then there are so many marriages where they are living as practically roommates. Where did the love go? The women focus on their children, aren't happy with their husbands, alcoholics in the marriage which ruin the intimacy in their marriage, verbal abuse, physical abuse. The husbands focus on work or golf or whatever and not their spouse because they're unhappy. Many people are tied together because of children and/or financial problems or just a fear of being alone and starting over. Yet, oh, yes, marriage is so revered by we heterosexuals and how dare two people of the same sex get married who love each other. LOL Sorry, I've worked in divorce cases too long and seen a lot of miserable marriages through co-workers, friends, suburbia.

The moral failure of heterosexual couples is no argument FOR gay marriage.

I agree ...I was under the impression that homosexuals were as human as hetero's ...perhaps gay divorces would be more interesting?!?!?

y

Where did I once say they would be better once in that post?

I believe the implication was VERY clear to those of us with at least one active brain cell.

[Don]

Homosexuals deserve the right to be married, not just a civil union. We heterosexuals have made a mess of marriage. The divorce rate is 50 percent for first marriages. Second marriages have worse statistics at 67 percent, and third marriages are even worse. There's so many affairs that go on in marriages, online hookups, emotional affairs. Then there are so many marriages where they are living as practically roommates. Where did the love go? The women focus on their children, aren't happy with their husbands, alcoholics in the marriage which ruin the intimacy in their marriage, verbal abuse, physical abuse. The husbands focus on work or golf or whatever and not their spouse because they're unhappy. Many people are tied together because of children and/or financial problems or just a fear of being alone and starting over. Yet, oh, yes, marriage is so revered by we heterosexuals and how dare two people of the same sex get married who love each other. LOL Sorry, I've worked in divorce cases too long and seen a lot of miserable marriages through co-workers, friends, suburbia.

Living in a gay community, I have checked up some of these figures as I can nightly hear verbal confrontations, physical abuse constantly while out walking at night. Looking at the numbers from the left viewpoint, right viewpoint and middle, it appears gay couples are around 12 times more prone to domestic violence than straight couples. When it comes to suicide, gay couples again lead the way at a 6 to one margin against straight couples.
Straight marriages may not be a walk in the park but when compared to same sex partnerships, the gay unions have the greater chance of encountering self created tragedy sometime during their relationship.

I'm not picking sides here just balancing out what was posted.

I didn't know you were gay Don.

I'm a homosexual lesbian.

[BobbyinTN]

Marriage isn't a "right"...it's a human institution...what the LGBT community has is the right to be treated EQUALLY as protected by the Constitution (14th Amendment, specifically the Equal Protection Clause "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws".)

Bobby...I understand you anger and your angst...but much like the over the top Queens that do their best to OFFEND people, so your argument strengthens peoples opposition to what you want.

You aren't coming off as anything other than a whining baby, at least that is how I percieve it...and I am on YOUR side.

Man, that's just the way you're reading it and honestly I don't care how people feel about my "tone" or what I say. Cut the bullshit and the bottom line is no one deserves to be treated unfairly.

Y'all don't have to like me, you just have to learn that you can't vote on the rights of other people.

You yourself piss alot of people off on these forums as do others. This really seems to be the abusive forum I've ever visited and apparently most of you are fine with it.

I'm not and again, I say what I say without apology. It's just who I am.

[BobbyinTN]

Homosexuals deserve the right to be married, not just a civil union. We heterosexuals have made a mess of marriage. The divorce rate is 50 percent for first marriages. Second marriages have worse statistics at 67 percent, and third marriages are even worse. There's so many affairs that go on in marriages, online hookups, emotional affairs. Then there are so many marriages where they are living as practically roommates. Where did the love go? The women focus on their children, aren't happy with their husbands, alcoholics in the marriage which ruin the intimacy in their marriage, verbal abuse, physical abuse. The husbands focus on work or golf or whatever and not their spouse because they're unhappy. Many people are tied together because of children and/or financial problems or just a fear of being alone and starting over. Yet, oh, yes, marriage is so revered by we heterosexuals and how dare two people of the same sex get married who love each other. LOL Sorry, I've worked in divorce cases too long and seen a lot of miserable marriages through co-workers, friends, suburbia.

Living in a gay community, I have checked up some of these figures as I can nightly hear verbal confrontations, physical abuse constantly while out walking at night. Looking at the numbers from the left viewpoint, right viewpoint and middle, it appears gay couples are around 12 times more prone to domestic violence than straight couples. When it comes to suicide, gay couples again lead the way at a 6 to one margin against straight couples.
Straight marriages may not be a walk in the park but when compared to same sex partnerships, the gay unions have the greater chance of encountering self created tragedy sometime during their relationship.

I'm not picking sides here just balancing out what was posted.

I think Focus On The Family came up with that junk science years ago and it was proven false. Just more tactics to demonize homosexuals from the "conservitive christians". LMAO

[SherriBerry]

Why is it really that people are so opposed to same sex marriage? It has been legal in Canada for 5 years (and longer in some provinces) and yet the world did not end. Marriages between heterosexual couples were not diminished or made any "less special" by this new development - it didn't impact anyone other than the couples who were now able to marry. They got married and were able to experience the same joys and problems as anyone else. If gay marriage is legalized in the US, there will be a multitude of news stories about weddings and a needed boost to the economy, and then life will go on and people will get back to their own lives.

[slucero]

Why is it really that people are so opposed to same sex marriage? It has been legal in Canada for 5 years (and longer in some provinces) and yet the world did not end. Marriages between heterosexual couples were not diminished or made any "less special" by this new development - it didn't impact anyone other than the couples who were now able to marry. They got married and were able to experience the same joys and problems as anyone else. If gay marriage is legalized in the US, there will be a multitude of news stories about weddings and a needed boost to the economy, and then life will go on and people will get back to their own lives.

Because its about money...

Legitimizing same sex marriage means they would be entitled to all the legal benefits traditional marriage is. Toss in a dose of societal homophobia and you have a really incendiary topic..

[donnaplease]

Why is it really that people are so opposed to same sex marriage? It has been legal in Canada for 5 years (and longer in some provinces) and yet the world did not end. Marriages between heterosexual couples were not diminished or made any "less special" by this new development - it didn't impact anyone other than the couples who were now able to marry. They got married and were able to experience the same joys and problems as anyone else. If gay marriage is legalized in the US, there will be a multitude of news stories about weddings and a needed boost to the economy, and then life will go on and people will get back to their own lives.

Because its about money...

Legitimizing same sex marriage means they would be entitled to all the legal benefits traditional marriage is. Toss in a dose of societal homophobia and you have a really incendiary topic..

I'm not sure what those 2 things have to do with money, but I agree with you about them. I believe that our nation's society as a whole isn't as liberal with their views about homosexuality as many other countries. We ARE getting closer, but I think it's gonna take a little more time for us to evolve to that point. As I said before, some people in my parents and grandparents generation cannot understand homosexuality, therefore they cannot accept it. I believe as their generation dies off, so will a lot of the social phobia that comes with it, and we will progressively become more tolerant as a society. My husband started a new job in June, and in his benefits package we found that Alcoa does offer benefits to same-sex partners, which I think is definitely a step in the right direction.

SherriBerry, what did gay people do in Canada until 2005? I'm sure there were homosexual relationships there before then, and yet the world didn't end either. See what I mean? It's just gonna take us a little longer to get there. If you look at our nation's history, and using Bobby's examples of black's & women's rights and how white men were essentially in control of them, those changes didn't happen overnight. And they didn't happen all at once. It was a progressive change that took many years to accomplish. And it's why I feel like a civil union option is a good 'starting' point.

[SherriBerry]

Why is it really that people are so opposed to same sex marriage? It has been legal in Canada for 5 years (and longer in some provinces) and yet the world did not end. Marriages between heterosexual couples were not diminished or made any "less special" by this new development - it didn't impact anyone other than the couples who were now able to marry. They got married and were able to experience the same joys and problems as anyone else. If gay marriage is legalized in the US, there will be a multitude of news stories about weddings and a needed boost to the economy, and then life will go on and people will get back to their own lives.

Because its about money...

Legitimizing same sex marriage means they would be entitled to all the legal benefits traditional marriage is. Toss in a dose of societal homophobia and you have a really incendiary topic..

I'm not sure what those 2 things have to do with money, but I agree with you about them. I believe that our nation's society as a whole isn't as liberal with their views about homosexuality as many other countries. We ARE getting closer, but I think it's gonna take a little more time for us to evolve to that point. As I said before, some people in my parents and grandparents generation cannot understand homosexuality, therefore they cannot accept it. I believe as their generation dies off, so will a lot of the social phobia that comes with it, and we will progressively become more tolerant as a society. My husband started a new job in June, and in his benefits package we found that Alcoa does offer benefits to same-sex partners, which I think is definitely a step in the right direction.

SherriBerry, what did gay people do in Canada until 2005? I'm sure there were homosexual relationships there before then, and yet the world didn't end either. See what I mean? It's just gonna take us a little longer to get there. If you look at our nation's history, and using Bobby's examples of black's & women's rights and how white men were essentially in control of them, those changes didn't happen overnight. And they didn't happen all at once. It was a progressive change that took many years to accomplish. And it's why I feel like a civil union option is a good 'starting' point.

I think same-sex couples probably had the same problems as Bobby mentioned previously, such as legal status, benefits, etc. It would not surprise me that if referendums had been held in some provinces, such as Alberta, that the results would be the same as Prop 8, but once the question was raised, the Supreme Court ruled pretty quickly stating that it was unconstitutional to deny same-sex couples the right to marry and the federal government passed legislation in 2005 granting that right.

My point is that none of the fears and arguments against same-sex marriage held - it was legalized, people got married, life went on, and the world did not come to an end. Since so many states and companies grant benefits to same-sex couples, granting them the right to be married and call it "marriage" is not really a stretch in terms of money. If people want to use religious grounds, many churches already recognize and perform same-sex marriages. Acceptance of change by society does take time, but sometimes the change has to be legislated before society accepts it.

[BobbyinTN]

Why is it really that people are so opposed to same sex marriage? It has been legal in Canada for 5 years (and longer in some provinces) and yet the world did not end. Marriages between heterosexual couples were not diminished or made any "less special" by this new development - it didn't impact anyone other than the couples who were now able to marry. They got married and were able to experience the same joys and problems as anyone else. If gay marriage is legalized in the US, there will be a multitude of news stories about weddings and a needed boost to the economy, and then life will go on and people will get back to their own lives.

Because its about money...

Legitimizing same sex marriage means they would be entitled to all the legal benefits traditional marriage is. Toss in a dose of societal homophobia and you have a really incendiary topic..

I'm not sure what those 2 things have to do with money, but I agree with you about them. I believe that our nation's society as a whole isn't as liberal with their views about homosexuality as many other countries. We ARE getting closer, but I think it's gonna take a little more time for us to evolve to that point. As I said before, some people in my parents and grandparents generation cannot understand homosexuality, therefore they cannot accept it. I believe as their generation dies off, so will a lot of the social phobia that comes with it, and we will progressively become more tolerant as a society. My husband started a new job in June, and in his benefits package we found that Alcoa does offer benefits to same-sex partners, which I think is definitely a step in the right direction.

SherriBerry, what did gay people do in Canada until 2005? I'm sure there were homosexual relationships there before then, and yet the world didn't end either. See what I mean? It's just gonna take us a little longer to get there. If you look at our nation's history, and using Bobby's examples of black's & women's rights and how white men were essentially in control of them, those changes didn't happen overnight. And they didn't happen all at once. It was a progressive change that took many years to accomplish. And it's why I feel like a civil union option is a good 'starting' point.

I think same-sex couples probably had the same problems as Bobby mentioned previously, such as legal status, benefits, etc. It would not surprise me that if referendums had been held in some provinces, such as Alberta, that the results would be the same as Prop 8, but once the question was raised, the Supreme Court ruled pretty quickly stating that it was unconstitutional to deny same-sex couples the right to marry and the federal government passed legislation in 2005 granting that right.

My point is that none of the fears and arguments against same-sex marriage held - it was legalized, people got married, life went on, and the world did not come to an end. Since so many states and companies grant benefits to same-sex couples, granting them the right to be married and call it "marriage" is not really a stretch in terms of money. If people want to use religious grounds, many churches already recognize and perform same-sex marriages. Acceptance of change by society does take time, but sometimes the change has to be legislated before society accepts it.

A-fuckin'-men!

[Rhiannon]

Homosexuals deserve the right to be married, not just a civil union. We heterosexuals have made a mess of marriage. The divorce rate is 50 percent for first marriages. Second marriages have worse statistics at 67 percent, and third marriages are even worse. There's so many affairs that go on in marriages, online hookups, emotional affairs. Then there are so many marriages where they are living as practically roommates. Where did the love go? The women focus on their children, aren't happy with their husbands, alcoholics in the marriage which ruin the intimacy in their marriage, verbal abuse, physical abuse. The husbands focus on work or golf or whatever and not their spouse because they're unhappy. Many people are tied together because of children and/or financial problems or just a fear of being alone and starting over. Yet, oh, yes, marriage is so revered by we heterosexuals and how dare two people of the same sex get married who love each other. LOL Sorry, I've worked in divorce cases too long and seen a lot of miserable marriages through co-workers, friends, suburbia.

Where did I once say they would be better once in that post?

There. The implied presupposition in the opening statement was that gay marriage ought to be legalized since straight people have screwed it up so badly. That's not a valid argument for any point you were trying to make in supporting the issue. If you had instead cited instances of how and why you think GLBT's "deserve the right to be married" in any way other than detailing how shitty hetero marriages are, maybe more would've heard your point.

Were you meaning to imply homosexual couples have a lower separation rate, stay together longer, retain the passion? Or that there is no presence of alcoholism or abuse? Or were you saying that since straight couples don't always succeed that we should allow gay marriage since obviously we don't know what we're talking about? The innuendo is there in your post, whether it was intentional or not. I think that's what the problem is.

Gay couples deserve to get married because it is their right as human beings to love. And love isn't something that can be legislated. Therefore, our law should recognize their unions as valid and allow them the benefits that hetero couples already have. End of story.

And since homosexuals are humans, equal, and bleed red too... they're going to have the same amount of marital problems and the same sorts. In probably the same frequency and statistic. That's just human nature. Heteros don't fuck up marriage, their humanistic flaws do.

[S2M]

The issue is "equality"...has been since the beginning. Some justification, internally, that being a homosexual is not *less than*, not *second class*....end of story. BUT, i think the money issue(as far as dividing assets after a divorce) is a valid topic...

[lights1961]

If you can't return the respect I've given you in my answers to every question you ask, then move on.

I have been very respectful, but when you play games with your words you lose credibility. Fight a good fight, but do it honestly. MLK was a great example, IMO.

As for moving on... when I'm ready, I will do just that. Thanks, boss.

Not the one playing games or playing ignorant. If you're trying to help, you have a very strange way of showing it. There is no compromise in equality, you're either equal or you're not. No word games there.

No, you're the one playing the 'victim' game. I called you out on your choice of words that were not accurate, just used to incite emotion. Life isn't fair, Bobby. "Equality" is an unachievable goal, someone will always feel infringed upon. (not saying it's right, just think it is reality). If it's an "all-or-nothing" scenario, then you might want to be prepared for nothing. IDK what will happen, but I know that tons of Americans are not on board with this... at this time.

Just for clarification, Bill Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act into law in September 1996, not some religious right-wing kook. Barack Obama publicly opposes same-sex marriage (and supports civil unions). Joe Biden publicly opposes same-sex marriage & supports civil unions. I'm not sure what to make of Hillary's views on it, she seems to be partially for it, and for repeal of parts of it. I have a feeling that these folks are really ok with this stuff, but they know that the overwhelming majority of the public is not. It's political and it sucks, but it's the game they have to play if they want to stay in the game.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues ... riage.html
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/scott ... inton.html

This is a very hot-button issue, one that will never be easily decided, at least not at this point in history. As I said, I wish you no ill will, but I am on here representing an alternative viewpoint to yours. I understand that you don't like that, and I don't blame you. Doesn't make it any less valid though.

I am the fuckin’ victim. I cannot marry the person I love. That’s discrimination and I’m the victim of it. You know, sometimes in your world of “conservative” thinking and all the other bullshit you and others spout and the names you call when you can’t win the argument, there is sometimes a true victim and every homosexual that is treated as a second class citizen is one. You represent hate for anything that’s different. You, a woman who some men think should never be allowed to speak in church, run for office and should sit home doing house work and raising kids. You’re a disgrace to equality and fairness and you are so fuckin’ wrong it’s hilarious.

You didn’t call anyone out, you played dumb. And I can go back and get the quotes if you need the proof. Is that what they teach you in “conservative” home schooling? LMAO!

Fuck your insincerity.

It doesn’t really matter if Americans are “on board” with this or not. The courts are now deciding it and it’s gonna be changed, and VERY soon. Why do you think this case ever got as far as it did? Do you think it was an accident? Do you think appointing the Supreme Court Justices Sotomayer and Kagan was an accident?

Our President said what he said to get elected, just as every President does. I have it on good authority he believes in same-sex marriage and so did Clinton, but in the end, they are still politicians and have to play the game. Only President Obama made sure to play it through the lower courts first with a genius judge who could write such an incredible ruling, that no other judge could find him at fault.

Here’s what you have to get used to, homosexuals getting married through Federal Law and living the lives they want to live instead of what’s dictated to them by bigots. Yes, life isn’t fair sometimes.

Everything you’ve written was said about women’s rights, Black’s rights and every other person who was mistreated and discriminated against because people weren’t “on board”. Fuck the people who aren’t on board. They don’t matter. The tyranny of the majority will never be allowed to rule the minority.

Next time you feel like reaching out, reach out to someone who won’t so easily catch onto your game. You’re lousy at it.

Here’s an idea, come out and say what you mean from now on instead of trying to play word games.

YOU CHOSE TO PLAY a VICTIM... you werent born into it... there is a HUGE difference... its not a race... its a LABEL... and the left has been working on this argument for at leats 40 years...

[Sarah]

YOU CHOSE TO PLAY a VICTIM... you werent born into it... there is a HUGE difference... its not a race... its a LABEL... and the left has been working on this argument for at leats 40 years...

Are you saying he chose to be gay?

[SF-Dano]

YOU CHOSE TO PLAY a VICTIM... you werent born into it... there is a HUGE difference... its not a race... its a LABEL... and the left has been working on this argument for at leats 40 years...

Are you saying he chose to be gay?

Ok, this tangent of the discussion should be good for about 20 more pages.

[conversationpc]

YOU CHOSE TO PLAY a VICTIM... you werent born into it... there is a HUGE difference... its not a race... its a LABEL... and the left has been working on this argument for at leats 40 years...

Are you saying he chose to be gay?

That isn't what was said. Victim, not gay.

[S2M]

I think the *choice* was choosing to play the VICTIM...Probably a card carrying member of the Rainbow Coalition. Check his FB page. Does he "like" Al Sharpton? Gloria Allred (especially this one), Jesse Jackson? Louis Farrakhan?

[Sarah]

YOU CHOSE TO PLAY a VICTIM... you werent born into it... there is a HUGE difference... its not a race... its a LABEL... and the left has been working on this argument for at leats 40 years...

Are you saying he chose to be gay?

That isn't what was said. Victim, not gay.

Ok, I was just clarifying.

[lights1961]

YOU CHOSE TO PLAY a VICTIM... you werent born into it... there is a HUGE difference... its not a race... its a LABEL... and the left has been working on this argument for at leats 40 years...

Are you saying he chose to be gay?

That isn't what was said. Victim, not gay.

exactly... if he is a white male, born in America, he isnt a victim...

[lights1961]

AND HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION... WHEN HAS EMOTION ever been a right???
LOVE is an emotion isnt it??? its not an entitlement... I guess thats where I am going...

[Behshad]

YOU CHOSE TO PLAY a VICTIM... you werent born into it... there is a HUGE difference... its not a race... its a LABEL... and the left has been working on this argument for at leats 40 years...

Are you saying he chose to be gay?

Ok, this tangent of the discussion should be good for about 20 more pages.

I venture to say , not all, but probably half of all homosexuals more or less choose it as lifestyle. Just the same way some real homos like Parfait, choose to live as heterosexuals

Carry on !

[Don]

Does Parfait drive a RAV4?