Should the Mosque at Ground Zero be allowed

[Monker]

There is no difference. The spirit of of denying ANYBODY their liberties is not in the Bill of Rights. Allowing the cultural center follows both the 'letter' of the Bill of Rights, and the "spirit" of the Bill of Rights, which is to guarantee liberties to certain minorities, including religion.

Anyway you guys slice it, you are all acting like communists dictating where a person can practice their religion...and you are on the wrong side of liberty.

Amazingly, somehow, you grow dumber by the fucking minute. Islam is not a religion. It's a radical ideology that demands world domination. There is a "convert or die" rally cry behind it and I wish to do neither, asshole.

Oh, yes, and Christianity has such a different history. The inquisition, the Christian expansion into the 'new world', and murder entire civilizations because the heathens refused to accept Jesus. The Bible was used to justify slavery. The Mormons used it to justify stealing from farmers as they made their trek west across America.

There are roughly 800 years of proof suggesting as much. How many suicide bombings, beheadings, honor killings, stonings and amputations do you need before you open up your fucking eyes and get your mouth off of the ACLU's rotten cock?

Oh, I guess you want me to go on. Of course, there were also the crusades justified by God through the Pope. Even mini-Bush called the current war(s) a 'crusade'. Perhaps you should bitch to the Baptists who believe women who wear anything other then a dress are being sinful, or that they must submit and be dominated by their men?

You are the idiot for: Not accepting that Islam is a religion - it is. You don't have to like it...but that is what it is.

You are also an idiot if you do not understand that both Christianity and Islam have justified killing and wars and slavery and degrading women and on and on...Neither is untainted by these. Perhaps you should believe in Taoism or something.

You are also an idiot for believing in absolutes, and over and underestimating the people who believe in both Christianity and Islam.

These media blowhards are able to dupe dumbfucks like you with civilian casualties because these maggots have no regard for human life and use women and children as human shields. There are no "moderate" muslims. The Q'ran is pretty specific about lying and killing in the interest of Islam, and that's exactly what these people are doing. What kind of "religion" attempts to erect a house of worship over a fucking mass grave site and against the overwhelming wishes of a grieving community and nation?! You're a fucking coward and a traitor as far as I'm concerned, and so is anyone else that supports this building for further terrorist funding.

As has been stated here...there are over 100 mosques in the city already. If things are as you say then New Your City would be as fucked up with terrorism as Palestine and Israel. It's not. Get over it.

It is so very easy to take such a radical point of view on everything. But, it is also always the wrong one.

[steveo777]

[Rockindeano]

It's time for those Americans who insist on taking the "moral high-ground" to wake up or shut up.

I'll take this snippet as a slap in my face as I support their right to build there. As for you remaining statement:

Diplomacy and benevolence never work when you're dealing with fanatical psychopaths like Islamic fundamentalists who want to destroy your country. Containment seems to be more effective, and letting them build hate temples so close to Ground Zero isn't containing them. I'm glad I don't live in New York City right now, and if something stupid happens down there, I hope the people who let this happen get their asses kicked into tomorrow for it.

If you're such an outspoken critic, and an all around tough guy against these people, perhaps you should volunteer your service to this great country. I did Rip. I volunteered and fought for the US for the right to protections under the US Constitution. Be a man and sign up. The tough talk folk regarding the hate for Muslims and such are sure to be the one's who never consider enlisting and actually doing something. Just talking a tough game is reserved for chicken hawks.

[Rockindeano]

Dean, you gave service to this Country and that's to be commended. I thank you. You also swore to uphold the oath to protect this Country from " Enemies Foreign and Domestic"....this is an enemy.

Who is the enemy? Are whites too an enemy after OKC and Timothy McVeigh?

[Saint John]

Oh, yes, and Christianity has such a different history. The inquisition, the Christian expansion into the 'new world', and murder entire civilizations because the heathens refused to accept Jesus. The Bible was used to justify slavery. The Mormons used it to justify stealing from farmers as they made their trek west across America.

I'm no fan of any religion, but Christianity and Islam have evolved in completely different directions. One is visible in the community and promotes compassion and tolerance, and the other promotes conversion or death.

You are the idiot for: Not accepting that Islam is a religion - it is. You don't have to like it...but that is what it is.

I'm simply calling a spade spade. The main facet of any religion is to worship ... not convert or kill. I can tell the difference and you'd be able to, also, if your education level surpassed pre-K.

As has been stated here...there are over 100 mosques in the city already. If things are as you say then New Your City would be as fucked up with terrorism as Palestine and Israel. It's not. Get over it.

Funding, converting people through hate and funneling money can go relatively unnoticed. You've seen Independence Day one too many times.

It is so very easy to take such a radical point of view on everything. But, it is also always the wrong one.

This coming from jerkbox sticking up for a "religion" whose people wouldn't inwardly bat an eye if they cut your throat from ear to fucking ear, but outwardly they release emotionless condemnations and you run and grab your flag and wave it while they laugh behind you. Idiot.

[Saint John]

If you're such an outspoken critic, and an all around tough guy against these people, perhaps you should volunteer your service to this great country. I did Rip. I volunteered and fought for the US for the right to protections under the US Constitution. Be a man and sign up. The tough talk folk regarding the hate for Muslims and such are sure to be the one's who never consider enlisting and actually doing something. Just talking a tough game is reserved for chicken hawks.

This is such a mindless, self-serving and bullshit argument.


PS When you're done patting yourself on the back please post a picture of yourself in uniform, Forrest.

[Rockindeano]

If you're such an outspoken critic, and an all around tough guy against these people, perhaps you should volunteer your service to this great country. I did Rip. I volunteered and fought for the US for the right to protections under the US Constitution. Be a man and sign up. The tough talk folk regarding the hate for Muslims and such are sure to be the one's who never consider enlisting and actually doing something. Just talking a tough game is reserved for chicken hawks.

This is such a mindless, self-serving and bullshit argument.


PS When you're done patting yourself on the back please post a picture of yourself in uniform, Forrest.

Not meant to be a self serving pat on the back. I am simply saying, aw nevermind. I am sorry if I offended you Rip or anyone else. Nevermind.

[Saint John]

If you're such an outspoken critic, and an all around tough guy against these people, perhaps you should volunteer your service to this great country. I did Rip. I volunteered and fought for the US for the right to protections under the US Constitution. Be a man and sign up. The tough talk folk regarding the hate for Muslims and such are sure to be the one's who never consider enlisting and actually doing something. Just talking a tough game is reserved for chicken hawks.

This is such a mindless, self-serving and bullshit argument.


PS When you're done patting yourself on the back please post a picture of yourself in uniform, Forrest.

Not meant to be a self serving pat on the back. I am simply saying, aw nevermind. I am sorry if I offended you Rip or anyone else. Nevermind.

You haven't offended me at all. It's your mindset that anyone lacking military service isn't worthy of expressing opinions on what we think is best for the country while we view it being silently attacked, which seems almost communist in nature, that bothers me.

[Saint John]

"The war on terror is more than a military conflict - it is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century. And we're only in its opening stages,"

This is really a simple, yet poignant, statement.

[steveo777]

True story - This place I used to work had these two managers, who were brothers, both from Afghanistan. They spoke Farsi in front of white folk, sometimes, even though both spoke fluent English. Both also happened to be Muslims. One day they interviewed and hired this white American guy, who little did they know, happened to have worked in a U.S. embassy abroad. This guy could speak fluent Farsi. In the lunch room one day these two Afghan brothers were sitting there talking crap about Americans and basically applauding the 9/11 terror attacks while speaking their language, of course...talking shit about how Muslims would one day convert Americans and take over. Anyway, the new hire white guy, who speaks fluent Farsi heard this shit and all hell broke loose. They fired him and he sued the company for wrongful termination. I have no idea how much money he got, but in the process these two assholes got fired. I've since learned that many of them talk the same kind of shit, while living in America, enjoying our freedoms. Their ilk is disgusting.

What is really a slap to America is those anti-Americans who think it's ok for these fucks to build a Mosque in that location holding it up like some kind of victory trophy. Sickening what a segment of America has become.

[Rockindeano]

"The war on terror is more than a military conflict - it is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century. And we're only in its opening stages,"

This is really a simple, yet poignant, statement.

Who said that?

You know who said it. Bush said it, but I will bet my life he didn't think it nor write it.

[Rockindeano]

What is really a slap to America is those anti-Americans who think it's ok for these fucks to build a Mosque in that location holding it up like some kind of victory trophy. Sickening what a segment of America has become.

Pure ignorance for the law. I do NOT think they should build it there, for obvious reasons, however, what does that make America when we can choose who and what can go where? We are a special place, and if we change because of 9/11, what will we have become?

[stevew2]

What is really a slap to America is those anti-Americans who think it's ok for these fucks to build a Mosque in that location holding it up like some kind of victory trophy. Sickening what a segment of America has become.

Pure ignorance for the law. I do NOT think they should build it there, for obvious reasons, however, what does that make America when we can choose who and what can go where? We are a special place, and if we change because of 9/11, what will we have become?

I dont like it either, but I agree,let um build it, Tator and I and a few other rednecks can torch the place .I heard today that none of the unions will even bulid it ,and there is already one 2 blocks away that has been there for 40 years

[Rockindeano]

What is really a slap to America is those anti-Americans who think it's ok for these fucks to build a Mosque in that location holding it up like some kind of victory trophy. Sickening what a segment of America has become.

Pure ignorance for the law. I do NOT think they should build it there, for obvious reasons, however, what does that make America when we can choose who and what can go where? We are a special place, and if we change because of 9/11, what will we have become?

I dont like it either, but I agree,let um build it, Tator and I and a few other rednecks can torch the place .I heard today that none of the unions will even bulid it ,and there is already one 2 blocks away that has been there for 40 years

Yeah exactly, they don't need one there, but the point of argument is they have the US Constitutional right to build one there. The Muslims could really make a lot of political points if they come out and say, "we understand, and can build it elsewhere."

[Rip Rokken]

Diplomacy and benevolence never work when you're dealing with fanatical psychopaths like Islamic fundamentalists who want to destroy your country. Containment seems to be more effective, and letting them build hate temples so close to Ground Zero isn't containing them. I'm glad I don't live in New York City right now, and if something stupid happens down there, I hope the people who let this happen get their asses kicked into tomorrow for it.

If you're such an outspoken critic, and an all around tough guy against these people, perhaps you should volunteer your service to this great country. I did Rip. I volunteered and fought for the US for the right to protections under the US Constitution. Be a man and sign up. The tough talk folk regarding the hate for Muslims and such are sure to be the one's who never consider enlisting and actually doing something. Just talking a tough game is reserved for chicken hawks.

This is such a mindless, self-serving and bullshit argument.


PS When you're done patting yourself on the back please post a picture of yourself in uniform, Forrest.

Not meant to be a self serving pat on the back. I am simply saying, aw nevermind. I am sorry if I offended you Rip or anyone else. Nevermind.

You haven't offended me at all. It's your mindset that anyone lacking military service isn't worthy of expressing opinions on what we think is best for the country while we view it being silently attacked, which seems almost communist in nature, that bothers me.

LOL, I'm not offended either -- no worries there. I have the highest respect for military service, and both my dad and grandfather served in the armed forces. I would have loved to myself, but I'd just gotten married right before Desert Storm, and again for the 2nd time with an established career right after 9/11. It didn't make sense either time for me to sign up, but if it ever came down to it, I'd do what I needed to do.

It's every citizen's right to express their concerns when it comes to matters of the security of your country, especially when the government isn't listening. Islamist fundamentalists are a threat, plain and simple. Now I do want to point out I mentioned containment instead of violence as a way to deal with extremists. I'm peaceful and non-violent by nature, and would never condone any act of aggression against other people just because they believe something different than I do. On the other hand, I don't want people trying to hurt me because I don't believe what they believe, and so the smart money is to either keep them as far away as possible or know how to defend yourself in the worst case scenario. And we do.

[Rockindeano]

jkjhhhcj

[Rip Rokken]

jkjhhhcj

LOL -- actually, it's an Armalite M15 A4, exact same config used by the Illinois State Police. Trijicon ACOG tactical scope on top w/Docter red-dot site. MAGPUL 30-round polymer P-Mags. LMT SOPMOD 5-position stock, and of course, a single point sling for that kick-ass S.W.A.T. look, LOL.

[Rockindeano]

Wyatt got loose on my post when I went to take a shit. Sorry.

[Rip Rokken]

Wyatt got loose on my post when I went to take a shit. Sorry.

What caliber was it?

[Rockindeano]

In all seriousness though Rip, is there any fucking reason you need to have that weapon you are firing in the fourth picture? I mean, come on dude?

[stevew2]

Wyatt got loose on my post when I went to take a shit. Sorry.

Hopefully the little guy didnt take a shit on your post.lol . We cant stop it, but I know the unions and alot of people will fight it. We will see what happens .There aint nothin we can do about it on here but discuss it. You have a nice little man there Deano.

[Rip Rokken]

In all seriousness though Rip, is there any fucking reason you need to have that weapon you are firing in the fourth picture? I mean, come on dude?

Of course! When they finally just wall off all of New York City and turn it into a maximum security prison, they come in quite handy! Plus, I couldn't pass up the free Dokken CD that came with the purchase.

[Rockindeano]

No offense there Rip, but this is why the NRA needs to be stopped. Defending the ownership and use of said guns is ridiculous. This shit is what's wrong with you whacked out conservatives. And you call us Liberals fucked up. Oh ok.

And when called out by gun control advocates, your response is, "we need to hunt." Are you fucking high?

[steveo777]

No offense there Rip, but this is why the NRA needs to be stopped. Defending the ownership and use of said guns is ridiculous. This shit is what's wrong with you whacked out conservatives. And you call us Liberals fucked up. Oh ok.

And when called out by gun control advocates, your response is, "we need to hunt." Are you fucking high?

Why? The guns don't kill, people do. When the real whack jobs come hunting for people like Rip in his own domain, all you have to stop em with is man stoppers like in the pics. So don't go ripping on the NRA, or any others who advocate for your and my rights to bear arms.....for our own protection, as well as to hunt. That said, sometimes some people fight crazy with crazy, like when those fuckers try and build that mosque and some boys from the hood don't like that.

[RossValoryRocks]

In all seriousness though Rip, is there any fucking reason you need to have that weapon you are firing in the fourth picture? I mean, come on dude?

Rip is perfectly within his rights to own the gun...just as the folks in NY are perfectly within their rights to build the mosque. Maybe he just enjoys shooting it?? Maybe he feels he needs it to protect his home and family?

You don't get that?

Oh wait, super hypocrite to the rescue...it's ok to take Rips rights away...correct? Just as long as you don't agree with him.

[Rip Rokken]

No offense there Rip, but this is why the NRA needs to be stopped. Defending the ownership and use of said guns is ridiculous. This shit is what's wrong with you whacked out conservatives. And you call us Liberals fucked up. Oh ok.

And when called out by gun control advocates, your response is, "we need to hunt." Are you fucking high?

Why? The guns don't kill, people do. When the real whack jobs come hunting for people like Rip in his own domain, all you have to stop em with is man stoppers like in the pics. So don't go ripping on the NRA, or any others who advocate for your and my rights to bear arms.....for our own protection, as well as to hunt. That said, sometimes some people fight crazy with crazy, like when those fuckers try and build that mosque and some boys from the hood don't like that.

Man, this is a topic all it's own. It's scary to me that we live in a time when a growing number of Americans are actually afraid of gun ownership, or at least would want to limit it. That's really how it all starts. Everything I own is legal and registered and the Mrs. and I also have licenses to carry. That's not the easiest to get -- you pretty much have to have a spotless record, pass state and federal background checks, be fingerprinted, etc. Luckily I don't even have a speeding ticket. Believe it or not, when you show a police officer your carry license, it puts them at ease because they know you're a responsible, law-abiding citizen. The guy who taught our C.C. class is an active Sgt. with the P.D., and he told us that contrary to popular belief, the police will not be there to prevent crimes in most cases. They usually arrive in time to take the report after the crime happens. Crime in our city hits every neighborhood, from the slums to the wealthiest gated communities. It finds its way in. People need to be prepared to protect themselves, plain and simple.

All that aside, the last thing I'd ever want to do is have to pull one on somebody, much less use it. That's the dead last option, and if it came down to that, it would be with something boring rather than exotic because I wouldn't want anyone thinking I enjoyed it.

I'm not going to lie about some of my pieces. They're fun as hell! But I'm not really a hunter. I don't even enjoy killing animals to be honest. I've had a lifelong interest in military weaponry, and I collect all sorts of stuff. I have rifles from several countries, and several wars. German, Soviet, French, Chinese, Swedish, Argentine, British, and American of course. All the foreign stuff saw action except for my Swedish Mauser. There's a lot of history there, and sometimes when I pull one out, look at the factory or regiment markings, smell the wood or the leather strap, it makes me remember what the cost of freedom is, and what some people paid to defend it. I have a Russian sniper rifle exactly like the one Vassili Zaitsev used against the Germans (Enemy at the Gates), and it was very likely made in the same factory and same year as his. Also have a Nazi Mauser Karabiner 98K that was a Russian capture, which means it was also most likely used in the Battle of Stalingrad. It has the eagles, swastikas, everything. Still have a few I want to add to my collection, including a Japanese Arisaka - has to have the Emperor's Chrysanthemum (most were ground off), and the folding horizontal sights they used to lead aircraft with when they shot them down. On my short list is an M1 Garand. I actually started writing a check for one a few months back when another gentleman who'd showed interest before me returned to pick it up. Damn. But I'm in no hurry. They aren't cheap anyway.

So anyway, not all of us conservatives gun owners are crazed, unstable, itchy trigger finger types just looking for an excuse to snap and start pumping lead. Gun ownership is both a right, and a serious responsibility. For the people out there that are buying the garbage that guns kill people, that's like saying cars drive drunk or matches cause arson.

[Andrew]

No offense there Rip, but this is why the NRA needs to be stopped. Defending the ownership and use of said guns is ridiculous. This shit is what's wrong with you whacked out conservatives. And you call us Liberals fucked up. Oh ok.

And when called out by gun control advocates, your response is, "we need to hunt." Are you fucking high?

Why? The guns don't kill, people do.

America - population 290 million - little in the way of gun laws - gun deaths per year = 11,000+
Australia - population 23 million - very tight gun control - deaths per year = 60-ish. (or if compared to USA on scale of population about 620). Canada/UK about the same, Japan half that again.

Sorry, but the number of guns + easy availability = more deaths.

[RossValoryRocks]

No offense there Rip, but this is why the NRA needs to be stopped. Defending the ownership and use of said guns is ridiculous. This shit is what's wrong with you whacked out conservatives. And you call us Liberals fucked up. Oh ok.

And when called out by gun control advocates, your response is, "we need to hunt." Are you fucking high?

Why? The guns don't kill, people do.

America - population 290 million - little in the way of gun laws - gun deaths per year = 11,000+
Australia - population 23 million - very tight gun control - deaths per year = 60-ish. (or if compared to USA on scale of population about 620). Canada/UK about the same, Japan half that again.

Sorry, but the number of guns + easy availability = more deaths.

Corellation doesn't equal causation Andrew...you can say that is the reason...but there is more too it...

Most crimes comitted with firearms are done with illegally obtained firearms, not by guns owned legally.

So it isn't that you can easily obtain a legal firearm...but that criiminals can easily obtain illegal firearms.

[Angel]

No offense there Rip, but this is why the NRA needs to be stopped. Defending the ownership and use of said guns is ridiculous. This shit is what's wrong with you whacked out conservatives. And you call us Liberals fucked up. Oh ok.

And when called out by gun control advocates, your response is, "we need to hunt." Are you fucking high?

So what you are saying is that the First Amendment should be upheld to the letter but not the Second Amendment???? Please explain.

[pinkfloyd1973]

Corellation doesn't equal causation Andrew...you can say that is the reason...but there is more too it...

Most crimes comitted with firearms are done with illegally obtained firearms, not by guns owned legally.

So it isn't that you can easily obtain a legal firearm...but that criiminals can easily obtain illegal firearms.

Exactly, which is why there are a lot of gun related deaths in the city of Chicago. Illinois has tough gun laws including having to have an FOID (Firearms Owner ID) card and waiting periods......if you're a gang member or a crook you don't need any of that, just a good supplier