What if Tommy Shaw never joined Styx.

[Don]

Without Tommy, the band would have faded out as a cultish prog band. Styx gained a lot of street cred when Tommy came on board. Without him, they would have been just as uncool as Journey was considered to be. I know a lot of my female classmates who were also into Van Halen (DLR era obviously) followed Styx ONLY because of Tommy. When Glen whateverhisnameis showed up, the Styx train had already left the station.
In 1980/81 the lineups of Styx, Journey, Foreigner and REO were money and most casual fans looking back will always see those group members as the best of the bunch for their respective bands..
Foreigner 4, Hi Infidelity, Escape, Paradise Theater.. That was the pinnacle right there, folks. And with MTV just starting up, You finally knew who the faces were behind the music.

[Boomchild]

I know a lot of my female classmates who were also into Van Halen (DLR era obviously) followed Styx ONLY because of Tommy.

Wow, I guess they were really into guys with bad overbites and "farm boy", "Bowl Cut" hairstyles.

[Don]

I know a lot of my female classmates who were also into Van Halen (DLR era obviously) followed Styx ONLY because of Tommy.

Wow, I guess they were really into guys with bad overbites and "farm boy", "Bowl Cut" hairstyles.

They were into the guy who didn't look like a ringleader for Barnum Baily. MTV changed everything.

[Zan]

I think it's safe to say that I am the biggest Glen cheerleader here.

But he is not better than Tommy Shaw. They are completely different types of musicians with different styles and attributes.

Back in "the day," STYX needed a high energy, superbly gifted guitar player to counter JY's edgier style. The fact that he was a poster child that made the girls weak at the knees did not hurt their situation at all. Can you imagine seeing JY in nylon crotch huggers and roller skates? OK, maybe you can imagine it, but do you want to?

[bugsymalone]

Lol, Zan. Suite needs to post that Tommy pic again.

While no one could be sure with an ambitious, talented leader like Dennis what direction the group would have taken without Tommy, with Tommy it because exactly what Dennis had affirmed when Styx took on Tommy. He felt they needed a charismatic frontman and they got it with Tommy. In addition, they got a really melodic guitar player and someone who could produce the kind of songs that would keep this group alive in more than one style of music.

I was one who was into the dark, long-haired, bearded Dennis in the early days. And I liked his looks during the Kilroy era. Ditto Tommy.

Dennis always seemed to be one to play down his looks, for whatever reason, with really over-the-top costumes and some questionable hair styles. He would really make me and a few friends of mine a lot.


Bugsy

[Baron Von Bielski]

Interesting poll. And an interesting analysis. Tommy certainly brought much to the table to enhance Styx, but also made a few crucial mistakes along the way that damaged the band.

Things that Tommy brought
- Broadened the Styx sound - In my mind the most important thing Tommy brought to the table was his acoustic, southern style to the band. Songs like Crystal Ball, Foolin Yourself, Sing For The Day, Lights, and Boat On The River represent Tommy's strengths as a writer and took Styx to a place that they never would have got to. A mistake on Styx's part was not to leverage this as much on Paradise and Kilroy.

- Pop/Rock sensibilities and fantastic songwriting - Tommy could write a better rock song than anyone in the band. He knew how to write a rock song that actually got played on the radio - Renegade, BCM are examples and the more poppish TMTOMH certainly is proof that Styx could write an up tempo song that could get played on the radio.

- Made Dennis better - Tommy added to DDY's songwriting. The competition between them even if friendly - was definitely there. Dennis was so bummed out that Tommy had written and sung all the hit singles of Po* that he rededicated himself to making himself a better writer and singer - writing about what he wanted to write about vs. trying to fit the AOR mold

Tactical errors of Tommy

- The ongoing threats to "walk" if he didn't get his way - Really spoke to his immaturity more than anything. If First Time is a single, I quit....If HWBHB is a single, I quit....this not only caused friction, but actually hurt the band sales wise.

- Poor input on singles - Like it or not, First Time was headed to be a Top 5 single (maybe even a number 1). If Tommy hated it so much, they should have had this out before the song made it on the record. If it is on the record, it is fair game to be a single. Dennis explains this in an interview that if First Time gets released, it goes big, the album sky rockets opening up the doors to release Boat On The River (they would have known it was a hit in Europe) and get more push behind Borrowed Time and Lights. Cornerstone had the potential to be a 5 single album. This would have set the stage for 1981 PT which, with that setup, could have been a much bigger album than it was - think Escape or Hi Infidelity. Same story with Haven't We Been Here Before. Song should have been released - would have been top 5.

- The drug issues - Clearly Tommy's drug abuse probably was the cause of the above two tactical errors - but when you get right down to it, it destroyed the band for 13 years. That is the biggest shame of all.

So, net net does Tommy help or hurt? Well, if Tommy doesn't join, I do not think the band ever gets out of the Equinox era - maybe have a few gold records and a few more top 40 singles, but not top 10 singles and not platinum albums. The band disbands by 1980. So, even with the tactical errors, net net Styx comes out way ahead with Tommy in the band.

I don't disagree with a single point you made I guess for maybe how high First Time would have charted. I don't put it on par with Babe which I think is a great song... I'd give it top 10 though.

[Abitaman]

Styx would have made it without Shaw. They would have been on the radio, and sold records. Would they have been as big? I doubt it. While Shaw did write most of the hits like DDY. Shaw brought an energy to the stage that was really lacking in the band. Shaw also brought a lot of teenage girls with him, he was closer to their age. JY was the long haired dirty looking rocker, DDY was the old man that was goofy, shaw had the sex appeal that the girls loved, and he could rock and sing with the best of them.
So yes Styx would have made it musically without Shaw, but he added more than just music to the line up

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Lol, Zan. Suite needs to post that Tommy pic again.

Bugsy

Here you go.........

[Boomchild]

Lol, Zan. Suite needs to post that Tommy pic again.

Bugsy

Here you go.........

Ouch! This is one of those times I wish I was totally blind.

[bugsymalone]

Lol, Zan. Suite needs to post that Tommy pic again.

Bugsy

Here you go.........

Yup. There it is!


Bugsy

[pinkfloyd1973]

Lol, Zan. Suite needs to post that Tommy pic again.

Bugsy

Here you go.........

Is that a WMET Mighty Met tee he's wearing?

[yogi]

My opinion is that Tommy is great NO doubt BUT...... the BIGGEST thing that EVER happen to Styx was when they hooked up with A&M and released Equinox.

For me Equinox changed Styx for the better far far more than Tommy Shaw did.

The turning point for Styx was hooking up with A&M and releasing Equinox. As many bands do after the release of a great album they went backwards with Crystal Ball & then took off with The Grand Illusion.

[Baron Von Bielski]

My opinion is that Tommy is great NO doubt BUT...... the BIGGEST thing that EVER happen to Styx was when they hooked up with A&M and released Equinox.

For me Equinox changed Styx for the better far far more than Tommy Shaw did.

The turning point for Styx was hooking up with A&M and releasing Equinox. As many bands do after the release of a great album they went backwards with Crystal Ball & then took off with The Grand Illusion.

Agreed.

[Boomchild]

Well, I wasn't expecting Yes to generate 28%. Thought it would have been less.

[froy]

Lol, Zan. Suite needs to post that Tommy pic again.

Bugsy

Here you go.........

Is that a WMET Mighty Met tee he's wearing?

captain WAMMO

[Babyblue]

Lol, Zan. Suite needs to post that Tommy pic again.

Bugsy

Here you go.........

Is that a WMET Mighty Met tee he's wearing?

captain WAMMO

Fred, you must live a sad life hateing so much.

[froy]

Lol, Zan. Suite needs to post that Tommy pic again.

Bugsy

Here you go.........

Is that a WMET Mighty Met tee he's wearing?

captain WAMMO

Fred, you must live a sad life hateing so much.

Wow Baby are you clueless here Captain Wammo was a DJ on the station for 10 years,
Please take a break.

[Archetype]

Styx was great with Glen Burtnik. Dennis made Styx; not Tommy.

[Toph]

Styx was great with Glen Burtnik. Dennis made Styx; not Tommy.

Agree. Tommy gave Styx 5 songs - and 40% of those Dennis had to tweak significantly to make good - Renegade and Crystal Ball. He also gave them BCM, FY, and TMTOMH. That is his legacy. One, yes, one top 10 single. One major rock track and some lesser pop singles and that is it.

He is way overrated by some in this forum.

[Boomchild]

Styx was great with Glen Burtnik. Dennis made Styx; not Tommy.

Agree. Tommy gave Styx 5 songs - and 40% of those Dennis had to tweak significantly to make good - Renegade and Crystal Ball. He also gave them BCM, FY, and TMTOMH. That is his legacy. One, yes, one top 10 single. One major rock track and some lesser pop singles and that is it.

He is way overrated by some in this forum.

I think the issue is that some here try to water down what Dennis brought to the band and how that helped the band significantly. If you take JY and TS at their word, even though what Dennis brought may not have been their first choice they never out voted his ideas. Why? Because they were successful and pushing the band upwards. Not mention making each of them a very sizable income.