Unofficial Re-Issues?

[Andrew]

Why's Frankie going on about these?

Surely he's not complaining about the Rock candy issues? They are as next to perfect as you'll get.

[Journey/Survivor]

Why's Frankie going on about these?

Surely he's not complaining about the Rock candy issues? They are as next to perfect as you'll get.

Where at? On the Survivor site, or his own?

[Journey/Survivor]

OK. I went over to the Survivor website and read his comments.

Hey, I'll gladly read his comments on the albums.

It's late, and I have a headache, so I'm not going to go into a long post at the moment.

I just got the "Too Hot To Sleep" and "Vital Signs" Rock Candy re-issues a couple of weeks ago. As soon as I read the liner notes I almost commented on here about how Frankie should be pretty happy with what was said in the liner notes. Both Peterik and Jamison said good things about Sullivan in the liner notes. And, whereas I had previously thought that only Peterik was quoted in the Rock Candy liner notes, I found out that Sullivan has many quotes in the liner notes.

And Frankie, Ron Nevison is given credit in the Vital Signs liner notes as having done a lot to help make it a great album.

And whether Frankie wants to acknowledge it or not, Jim Peterik was a member of the band, arguably the most important member of the band. So, just because he is no longer in the band, don't act as if there was no input from the band in these re-issues.
Let's see, interview with founding member Jim Peterik, and quotes from Jimi Jamison and Frankie Sullivan. That sure seems like band input to me. And to most other fans as well.

There's nothing unofficial about the Rock Candy re-issues.

I wonder if his "pricks" comment was about any of us on this forum? Kind of funny if it was.

[jaxmanjoe]

Of course his 'pricks' comment would, and should, be about this board. There has been an ocean of venom unleashed on the man here and maybe only 2 or 3 of us can even claim to know him beyond shaking his hand at a concert (me being the latter).

I do wish he would have taken up a couple of sentences to update us on the new music in that long post, but, ah well...

I will continue to love Frankie and Jim and Jimi separately and try to keep the internal bickering between them at arms length. All I want is new music and if I have to wait then so be it. They are getting up there in age and at this point every new song is one more than I expect, so I'll be happy when I hear it.

Joe

[jaxmanjoe]

Odd. Frankie's blog post has gone AWOL off of Survivor.com...

[Red13JoePa]

That was bizarre and he must've been talking about here w/ the negative pricks remarks.

But what's to be positive about right now? More talk of the oft-mentioned but never specified "hidden agendas" and "ulterior motives," too.

The Nevison sainting seemed to be an excuse to rant on Peterik. I mean I've never read of a producer spoken of that glowingly paragraph after paragraph.

[Journey/Survivor]

Of course his 'pricks' comment would, and should, be about this board. There has been an ocean of venom unleashed on the man here and maybe only 2 or 3 of us can even claim to know him beyond shaking his hand at a concert (me being the latter)

The thing is, like I've said, he brings it all on himself.

I love and respect his talent as a musician as much as anyone in the world does, including his family and closest friends! I never take anything away from his talent.

I have defended Sullivan a million times over the years, and been laughed at for my praise of him as a musician.

I've just seen/heard way too many horrible things about Frankie Sullivan the man to remain silent about it anymore. In my opinion, he's a shitbag of a human being. Sorry to both Joe's on this forum, but that's become very clear to me.

I would have liked to have commented on a few other things that he said in that post of his, but I guess he removed it?

If I recall correctly, I believe that he said that he does not know what was said in the liner notes of the re-issues? But then I think that he also criticized what is said in the liner notes? How can you criticize something that is said, if you don't even know what was said?

Both Peterik and Jamison compliment Sullivan and Droubay in the "Vital Signs" and "Too Hot To Sleep" liner notes. And they also compliment Ron Nevison.

Frankie, if your calling us pricks on here, I find that laughable. Tell you what, prove any of us wrong on what we've said about you, and then, and only then, will you prove us to be "pricks."

[Andrew]

Odd. Frankie's blog post has gone AWOL off of Survivor.com...

Jeezuz....there really is NO point making a big ass post if you are only going to remove the comments later.

[Eyeof]

So let me get this straight...it's okay for him to call us "pricks", based off what we have said in a forum etc, despite the fact he does know personally know any of us. However, it's not okay that we call him out on his actions, because we don't personally know him?

I'll never understand the blind double standards that so many give in regards to FS.

If a person had lied. Continues to lie and lie and lie...I can't call him a liar unless I have a close personal relationship with him?

Makes so much sense....

[Eyeof]

and Andrew..nice touch on the McSurvivor...that is, afterall, all it is...

But where's dave!!!

[axecrew]

Eye.....didn't you know....it's all about sullivan getting his way, if not then he takes his ball and goes home. And we're the pricks.....

[DavidWT]

Damn, I missed his post.

Next time anybody here reads a new post from Frankie, please copy and paste it here right away, because odds are that he'll remove it from his own site before half of us get to read it.

[Eyeof]

Yes, must be said with serious conviction to leave it up there a day! I guess he's been burned by people being able to prove his lies, with his own words....must be tough!

[Red13JoePa]

and Andrew..nice touch on the McSurvivor...that is, afterall, all it is...

Another one that grew legs that I coined!

I got the trademark on "tapegate" for Journey, too.

[Andrew]

But where's dave!!!

Will fix!

[Andrew]

"Unofficial Releases."
Well, let's take a look at these "unofficial" releases. Odd? You bet.
Nevertheless this is still the music business. Nothing comes as a
surprise to those of us who grew up in the environment and know how to
live in it.
Who knows why anyone would re-release a recording and not have anyone
from the band participate in it. And though I will never read them,
they include re-written liner notes, the problem is they were re-written
without any input from the band. History repeats itself and all
attempts to rewrite history fail. Take a look at any successful record,
you have to be involved in everything. And looking back on the
experience, who have to remember who did what and where it was done.
Let me start with the one that matters the most to me, due to who was
involved and what was going on at that moment in time with Survivor -
Batter up - "Vital Signs."
I can begin this recollection very easily and with one name, Ron
Nevison. Without Ron there would not be "Vital Signs". He was a moving
force to get back at it and we were lucky enough to get Ron at a time he
was not working as much as the prior years. Ron wanted a hit record to
get back in the game. We just so happened to once again be in the right
place at the right time.
I rang up Ron to produce that record after both "Premonition" and
"Caught In the Game". Guess I felt a bit caught in the game myself and
wanted relief in the form of a guy who always stands tall and clearly
speaks his mind no matter what. All during the "Premonition" Record, at
night I would run over to The Record Plant where Ron was busy doing The
Starship and Eddie Money's "Playing For Keeps." Under my arm I held
tapes of the work we were doing, songs in question, songs I did not like
and thought they should not be on the record, etc... All the while I
would catch Starship cutting "Jane" with Mickey Thomas singing his ass
off and Ansley Dunbar playing drums! Amazing stuff really. One
evening at an Eddie Money session they were cutting a tune called "Wish
I Had A Girl Like You" and Carmine Appice was paying drums at the top of
the drum game! Whew, that room was hot with talent. The man at the
helm sitting behind the now legendary API Console in the now legendary
Record Plant Studio C was Ron Nevison And Ron ran it all.
Back to the singer:
We had just lost Dave after having what is now the 18th biggest selling
hit record of all time. It is now number 10 on the most downloaded
songs of the Internet rated by Neilson/Sound Scan I remember being in a
bit of a haze thinking how are we going to replace Dave and I totally
recall thinking how lousy the timing was for all of us. Time to get
back at it and yet no singer after "The Eye Of The Tiger"? There was a heavy sense of"now what?" in the air that I was not able to escape. So that meant
deal with it...
The first guy to walk into the warehouse we rehearsed at was Jim
Jamsion. Although we did go on to try a few others all I recall saying
to myself is I want to get that first guy back and have at it. After a
day rehearsing with a singer we all know and I will not mention in this
blog, I was at the end of my rope. I spoke loudly and clearly. But,
before doing so I went through all of the rehearsal tapes of the band
with Jamo and found the best two performances I was able to find. They
were then sent off to Ron for his input. After all, he did agree to
produce the record and yet here we were with no singer! I don't recall
the second song I sent off to him but I do remember that "Broken
Promises" was one of them. I had a killer performance and the band
was tight that day. The tape went out and the next day the call came
in. It was easy, Ron agreed. So Jamison was in and two weeks later Ron
came to Chicago to get the pre-production completed and the band and
songs ready for recording. What was a bit of a downer with Dave had
turned into what all good things are, an opportunity.
Ron was not living in LA at that time. He had moved his camp up to The
Record Plant in Sausalito. Although everything he does is great, he was
back on the radio with Starship's "No Way Out." It was at number one on
the AOR Charts and sooner or later Ron's phone would have begun to ring
off the hook. Good timing for all.
You get a person like Ron and he always delivers. Then, you get a
person like Ron when he wants it badly and he works so hard it is
unimaginable. That is what he did on "Vital Signs". He worked so hard
on that record it was amazing. Ron would come in at 1pm and by 7pm we
were done for the day. As he always said, it is not the time you put in
that counts but it is about what you get accomplished that matters most.
Ron was able to get more done in those six to seven hours then anyone
else I know does in 12. He was sharp and witty, a man of great taste.
The only other person I saw driving a Rolls Royce Corniche with the top
down where it actually looked right was George Hamilton. Ron drives
one...
This man worked incredibly hard on the record. The only other person in
the room to see it all and know was yours truly. Ron had no patience
for crap so he would say what was on his mind, not always in the kindest
of words, and get on with the task at hand. And when the guys were done
cutting he wanted to send as many of them as possible home to have the
studio and his energies left alone. To disturb Ron's energy was never a
good thing. So it was the old less is more thing as far as the band
members were concerned. Before I knew it he would whittle it down to
just he and I.
When I sent the first mix out of "I Can't Hold Back" everyone said there
wasn't enough bass. I walked into work that day and the first question
I ran into was so? I said "so what!" Ron looked at me and asked me
what the guys thought and I told him, not enough bass. Then he looked
me straight in the eye and said no more tapes go out. You figure out
what you're going to tell the guys but no more tapes. I wore out the
old "It must of got lost in the mail" excuse. We finished the record
and went to The Mastering Lab, to do the mastering. Mastering with Ron
is different as well. He did the all of the tweaking on his own.
When I first met Ron I was a young player who listened to all of the
records he made, without evening knowing it. I was a Led Zeppelin Fan
(the only one in the band until Droubay came along), Bad Company, The
Stones, Baby's Fan and so on. He even did the UFO records that every
guitar player was listening to at the time. Then, he would turn around
and do a killer Chicago record, thse amazing Heart record he had me come play in, Joe Cocker, Melissa Manchester and the list continues. I remember sitting in thecontrol room playing a 1958 Strat, not a very poular guitar at that
time, and Ron said he had a guy coming in for a short meeting. About
ten minutes later in walks John Waite and he says "nice guitar." John
likes the unusual. It then clicked that Ron had also recorded and
produced The Baby's Record and most of all "Head First" one of my
favorite records. Ron was the live sound engineer for The Who and Derek
& The Dominos. He also built the studio at Eric Clapton's house as well
as The Stones mobile studio. Ron spent hours and days and then months
with the likes of Pete Townsend doing "Tommy" and "Quadrophenia." He
spent the same amount of time sitting next to my all time fav, Jimmy
Page. You watch that flick "It Might Get Loud" and you can see a guy
jumping in the truck for a second. Who else? Lets work...

Now, the point being here is these unofficial re-releases don't give the
fans any information about the record. You won't read any of this on
the liner notes. I'm not sure what you'll read but I am absolute in
what I recall. That's the thing about history. You gotta live it man.
You have to tell it straight up like it is. The hard work of people
like Ron (just to name one) to be omitted is wrong. Give credit where
credit is due.

Mike Clink was my tie line to Ron after the first Survivor record.
Mike, who went on to become an icon himself after producing a band
called Guns & Roses and a record called "Appetite For Destruction."
That's history. I would call Mike when I had any question or doubt. He
would talk to Ron and then call me and tell me that if I can make it to
the studio at 7pm Ron would be there. You can bet I was there!
I don't care about much of the rest so long as two things happen; you
guys get what you paid for and the band gets paid. It's the only way we
can look at these re-releases. They are "Unofficial" and unofficial
they shall remain. The only way to do them is to include a band member
who knows the history. A member still active and in touch with these
folks. Someone who only wishes to state the facts with no agendas and
no ulterior motives other than to inform the fans.
As for the credits, the history, the fine people involved and being in
the now, they missed the boat. This is Survivor. We will not let the
hard work by the best of the best not be acknowledged. Yep, the band
was ready at that time and we were firing on all ten. Jim not only fit
in but it was a great move. Still, no Nevison no "Vtial Signs".
You know, this is an important blog. I remain true to the name and own
it. That means I love it. Why else go through the bullshit if not for
the passion I have for the music. Cars, houses, fishing, it all seems to
matter less and less as music matters more and more. It's real man and
there's no faking it. You can't wake up one day and decide you're going
to be Keith Richards! You have to have lived that life, if you could.
The hard drugs, the deep roots into the blues, the killer band and top
musicians in the world. Friends with the guys who wrote the book.
Remember, Howlin' Wolf used to tour as a part of The Stones. This
business did not take a hit only because of the changing technology. It
also took a huge hit due to the access that the same technology gave
many artists.
Life is great! There's a new thing going on right around a corner near
you. Find it. Search for it and do what makes you happy. Don't settle
and live off your past. Chart a new course and on uncharted waters.
Yeah, you will take your lumps but when you speak truth who cares.
Everything ends and none of us get out of this one alive. It's life so
live it.
I've got lots of pictures from the studio and stories about all of our
recordings. My hobby then and now is photography! I have a photo
journal that pretty much sums up my words. You wanna know something?
Anything? Ask away. And the few pricks who want to run and post all
kinds of negativity (must be their world) about me, have a nice day! I
would ask you to check how your heart is doing, bitterness is bad for
your health.
Walkin' the straight & narrow,
FS"

[Tito]

and Andrew..nice touch on the McSurvivor...that is, afterall, all it is...

Is this an ethnic slur towards the Irish man Sullivan? Are you calling him a "Mc," McNeice?

[Journey/Survivor]

and Andrew..nice touch on the McSurvivor...that is, afterall, all it is...

Is this an ethnic slur towards the Irish man Sullivan? Are you calling him a "Mc," McNeice?

Nobody wants to hear from you, you prick.

[def]

All I did, was that I commented that blog on the site with "That said, what is next?".

The other guy, who commented asked about the kind of weed FS had been smoking before blogging.

So blame him!

[DavidWT]

Thanks for reposting the blog, Andrew. For the most part, it's kind of an interesting (though long-winded) read.

Two things that jumped out at me, though:

1. He talks about how as he gets older it becomes more and more about the music. I guess this explains the abundance of new Survivor material we've been hearing lately, and well as their very impressive touring schedule....

2. He encourages fans to "ask away!". We might be more encouraged to do this is he updated the Q&A a little more frequently. The last update is June 16. I've submitted questions since then, which never got a reply.

[jaxmanjoe]

Interestingly, the blog post is back. One question was also answered. I'm glad to see a little activity

Anyone else excited about hearing this new song? Long wait aside, I'm looking forward to it!

[Journey/Survivor]

I see that Frankie re-worded at least one thing in his post that he put back up on www.survivormusic.com

He changed the wording from "Unofficial Releases" to "Unauthorized Releases."

True, he himself did not authorize them. But at the same time, I doubt that most bands have any say over whether their albums are re-released?

Plus, as much as Frankie might want to deny it, Jim Peterik was every bit as important of a member of Survivor as Frankie was/is. So, there was band involvement in the liner notes. Not to mention that Frankie and Jimi Jamison are also quoted in the liner notes.

[Journey/Survivor]

It looks like he also removed his "pricks" comment.

[Andrew]

1. He talks about how as he gets older it becomes more and more about the music.

This might open another can of worms, but....

I agree - it should be about the music... So I e-mailed Frankie (as I have done in the past), but this time I said, I would make it my life's mission to heal the rifts between the guys so that one final Survivor record could be made. As the past records were just so good...there deserves to be more.

The response I got was not what I expected.

He had his lawyer respond.....

Yep.

And for the record, I have quickly abandoned my life quest for a different one....one that has some chance of ever happening.

[axecrew]

What a prick....nice to see its all about the fans and the music. Hey frankie, It's all about the money you fucking liar, why else are you in yet another baseless lawsuit? Why were you getting 100% of the roalties from previous albums until Peterik spoke up and you had to cut him in on his fair 20% share? Why didn't the other guys get their fair share? Why is your lawyer offering Stephen and Jimi pennies on the dollar hoping to make it go away now? And we're the pricks....lol

Sincerely,
A Prick

[Destiny]

1. He talks about how as he gets older it becomes more and more about the music.

This might open another can of worms, but....

I agree - it should be about the music... So I e-mailed Frankie (as I have done in the past), but this time I said, I would make it my life's mission to heal the rifts between the guys so that one final Survivor record could be made. As the past records were just so good...there deserves to be more.

The response I got was not what I expected.

He had his lawyer respond.....

Yep.


And for the record, I have quickly abandoned my life quest for a different one....one that has some chance of ever happening.

For your Survivor book ??

[Andrew]

No publisher interest in the book sadly. Not yet at least.

I can't afford to put time into something with an unknown outcome. At least nothing on top of what I'm already working on.

[Destiny]

And for the record, I have quickly abandoned my life quest for a different one....one that has some chance of ever happening.




. ..what is you new life quest Andrew ?

[Red13JoePa]

1. He talks about how as he gets older it becomes more and more about the music.

This might open another can of worms, but....

I agree - it should be about the music... So I e-mailed Frankie (as I have done in the past), but this time I said, I would make it my life's mission to heal the rifts between the guys so that one final Survivor record could be made. As the past records were just so good...there deserves to be more.

The response I got was not what I expected.

He had his lawyer respond.....

Yep.

And for the record, I have quickly abandoned my life quest for a different one....one that has some chance of ever happening.

You would be the label, AJM? My God, where's the downside for "Survivor" in that? Imagine 4 vox by Dave, 4 by Jimi, 2 by McDubrow.

[Slander]

Okay. I just read FS blog. I didn't see the original version he posted. I want to make that clear. I didn't see the "pricks" comment. If that was said, that was out of line, but on the other hand I'm sure some of us here would wear the "pricks" label as a badge of honor and honestly FS has been called worse on this board.

After reading through his blog, I don't see what the issue is with his commentary. While it is mostly a love letter to Ron Nevison, he also praises Jamo. So I don't see why everyone sees it as so negative. Am I missing something here? Yes, there is no mention of Peterik, but FS has been complimentary of JP many times in interviews so I don't see that as a diss. I see his comments as more praise of Nevison than anything else. FS is right. How could the people at Rock Candy really give the whole story of how the Survivor records were created without his input. Now having said that, at least Rock Candy put out the material, and I'm appreciative of their efforts! I am. I can't find any of the back catalog anywhere nowadays! Finally, the brand is Frankie's and I am grateful he keeps it alive. You all may disagree with the way he uses the name but it is his and he has a right to do with it what he wishes. Now if he would only put out some new music and not let all of this nonsense get in the way.