2011-2012 NFL Season Thread

[slucero]

...how bout them Niners...

[S2M]

...how bout them Niners...

Cool your jets....it was the Deadskins.

And they(49ers) continue to play in the WORST division in NFL history.

[YoungJRNY]

Not looking good for the Bengals next week. They've amassed a very good record against junior varsity teams and haven't had to play Pittsburgh or Baltimore once yet. Steelers by 10!

If the Bengals D of yesterday shows up Sunday against Pitt, all bets are off. Zimmer unleashed the dogs in the 2nd half and they killed the Titans. Tenn had o points and only 95 2nd half yards, with 30 of those coming on the final play. That's impressive after the 235 yard, 17 point 1st half.

Have either of you two game picking geniuses even once picked the Bengals this year?

Have YOU? Didn't think so. We'll learn a lot about this Bengals team in the upcoming weeks (Balty twice, Pitt twice, Houston, etc.) Teams are defined in their last 8, not their first and Cincy has their work cut out for them. Up to this point, you are who your record says you are and defense is still the norm in the NFL, so Cincy has a punchers chance because of it.

[RossValoryRocks]

I predict the Steelers don't make the playoffs after last nights defeat....The Bengals aren't pushovers...the Rams, while pathetic did a number on NO, and could easily do so to the Steelers, and the 49ers are a decent team too, with Gore leading the way on the ground...that is 4 potential loses and 9 and 7 ain't going to cut it.

[YoungJRNY]

I predict the Steelers don't make the playoffs after last nights defeat....The Bengals aren't pushovers...the Rams, while pathetic did a number on NO, and could easily do so to the Steelers, and the 49ers are a decent team too, with Gore leading the way on the ground...that is 4 potential loses and 9 and 7 ain't going to cut it.

Even if we can't catch Baltimore for the division (Baltimore can still collapse. They still got Cincy twice, SF and S.D left) I still think the Steelers get in for the 5th/6th Wild-Cards. That game could of went either way last night and even in defeat, players like Starks, Harrison and Brown stepped up so this team is a tough one to beat, regardless. I agree with the schedule though, division games MUST be won at this point in time. Must win next week in Cincy then it's the BYE to gather guys like Woodley and Emmanuel Sanders healthy for a second half run.

[Ehwmatt]

I predict the Steelers don't make the playoffs after last nights defeat....The Bengals aren't pushovers...the Rams, while pathetic did a number on NO, and could easily do so to the Steelers, and the 49ers are a decent team too, with Gore leading the way on the ground...that is 4 potential loses and 9 and 7 ain't going to cut it.

Trust me, the 49ers ain't beating you guys. They're a nice story so far this season, but they don't have the offensive firepower to compete with you guys.

[Enigma869]

Brady's still an elite QB

Aren't you the same guy who just said this yesterday?

He's become a turnover machine. He can't handle any pressure...he's getting flustered like a rookie QB.

Sorry dude, but Brady isn't the problem with this team. In spite of how "horribly" he played, he still threw for almost 350 yards, and more importantly, drove his team down the field, and threw what should have been the game winning TD on a 4th down with the game on the line. Last I checked, Brady doesn't play defense. It's no different than the Super Bowl. Brady drove his team down the field while his team was losing and threw what should have been the game winning TD to Moss. The defense gave the game away. A couple of other points...Ballard's catch was fucking PHENOMENAL! Just a great catch, and he actually was covered. Also, you really can't measure Brady against last year's historic season. He did throw two picks yesterday but one was deflected. While it still counts as an INT, I never blame any NFL QB for a deflected INT, as there is simply not a damn thing you can do about it. It's not like the QB is ever throwing the ball to the guy who ends up catching it on a deflected INT. The big issue for me in yesterday's game was awful clock management. I remember saying to some friends I was watching the game with "What the hell is Brady rushing to the line for with more than 2:00 left...you don't want to score too quickly" (Ask Pittsburgh about this)! You could just see it coming, as there was FAR much time on the clock.

Ultimately, this Patriots defense simply isn't good enough, and that will be their undoing. It's time for them to open up Kraft's wallet and actually sign guys who can play, because the guys on the defensive side of the ball are for the most part fucking DREADFUL!

[S2M]

Brady is STILL the top offensive QB in the league...and he leads the league in passing yards.

[YoungJRNY]

Brady is STILL the top offensive QB in the league...and he leads the league in passing yards.

Brady is still a stud. Even though he's not having the year everyone is so use to him having (atleast in recent weeks, last 3 games 20 points or under) but that last drive he put together against the Giants adds to his legend (he did it against Dallas too.) Defense is the obvious problem. The Patriots lack a big-play receiver on offense and are running the ball more often probably BECAUSE of the defense to gain clock control and make up for it on the clock.

[S2M]

Brady is STILL the top offensive QB in the league...and he leads the league in passing yards.

Brady is still a stud. Even though he's not having the year everyone is so use to him having (atleast in recent weeks, last 3 games 20 points or under) but that last drive he put together against the Giants adds to his legend (he did it against Dallas too.) Defense is the obvious problem. The Patriots lack a big-play receiver on offense and are running the ball more often probably BECAUSE of the defense to gain clock control and make up for it on the clock.

I was waiting for someone to pull up stats. Brees and Ben haven't had their BYE yet....so they both have an extra game's worth of stats....nice try though.

[YoungJRNY]

Brady is STILL the top offensive QB in the league...and he leads the league in passing yards.

Brady is still a stud. Even though he's not having the year everyone is so use to him having (atleast in recent weeks, last 3 games 20 points or under) but that last drive he put together against the Giants adds to his legend (he did it against Dallas too.) Defense is the obvious problem. The Patriots lack a big-play receiver on offense and are running the ball more often probably BECAUSE of the defense to gain clock control and make up for it on the clock.

I was waiting for someone to pull up stats. Brees and Ben haven't had their BYE yet....so they both have an extra game's worth of stats....nice try though.

So is it safe to say Brady doesn't lead the league in passing yards? Haha. 3004>2703. S2M's math: 3004<2703.

[S2M]

I have a HUGE issue with how passing stats are compiled and counted. a one-yard pass, and a 78-yard run shouldn't count as 79 passing yards, sorry. That's really ONE yard. QBS stats are HUGELY inflated. They should only count how far the ball is in the air.....

[YoungJRNY]

I have a HUGE issue with how passing stats are compiled and counted. a one-yard pass, and a 78-yard run shouldn't count as 79 passing yards, sorry. That's really ONE yard. QBS stats are HUGELY inflated. They should only count how far the ball is in the air.....

We agree. I've argued about stats for a LONG time that they could be very deceiving because everybody is so fabricated anymore of what the NFL has turned into (Fantasy Football) and what's expected to get into the Hall of Fame or Pro Bowl (stats.) That's why you see me go to bat for Roethlisberger almost automatically because the dude is so incredibly clutch when the time comes to be clutch regardless of what his stats say or how many T.D pass's he throws a year. To me, getting out of 3 sacks on one play, getting out of the pocket and hitting somebody on a 3rd and 15 to move the chains is more impressive than a dump off that goes for 15, 20 yards. It makes the game arguable I guess though.

[Ehwmatt]

I have a HUGE issue with how passing stats are compiled and counted. a one-yard pass, and a 78-yard run shouldn't count as 79 passing yards, sorry. That's really ONE yard. QBS stats are HUGELY inflated. They should only count how far the ball is in the air.....

We agree. I've argued about stats for a LONG time that they could be very deceiving because everybody is so fabricated anymore of what the NFL has turned into (Fantasy Football) and what's expected to get into the Hall of Fame or Pro Bowl (stats.) That's why you see me go to bat for Roethlisberger almost automatically because the dude is so incredibly clutch when the time comes to be clutch regardless of what his stats say or how many T.D pass's he throws a year. To me, getting out of 3 sacks on one play, getting out of the pocket and hitting somebody on a 3rd and 15 to move the chains is more impressive than a dump off that goes for 15, 20 yards. It makes the game arguable I guess though.

Fuck me sideways, this is twice in 24 hours that I agree with S2M as well!

Passing yards can sometimes be a silly stat, for sure.

[Enigma869]

We agree. I've argued about stats for a LONG time that they could be very deceiving because everybody is so fabricated anymore of what the NFL has turned into (Fantasy Football) and what's expected to get into the Hall of Fame or Pro Bowl (stats.) That's why you see me go to bat for Roethlisberger almost automatically because the dude is so incredibly clutch when the time comes to be clutch regardless of what his stats say or how many T.D pass's he throws a year. To me, getting out of 3 sacks on one play, getting out of the pocket and hitting somebody on a 3rd and 15 to move the chains is more impressive than a dump off that goes for 15, 20 yards. It makes the game arguable I guess though.

It's really a dopey argument both for Ben and the Hall of Fame. First and foremost, stats don't matter nearly as much as you think they matter when it comes to Hall of Fame credentials. If stats mattered, guys like Aikman and Bradshaw wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame and Drew Bledsoe would be. Also, Ben is a Hall of Famer right this second. I think Ben is a better than average QB, but not a HOF guy. That said, no NFL QB who wins two Super Bowls isn't getting in the HOF. It's simply not the way the NFL has ever worked.

[S2M]

Just a few things:

First of all, the REAL definition of a 4th Quarter comeback states that you must be tied, or behind at the START of the 4thQ.

Secondly, in order for a QB to be clutch, or such a great 4th Q sensation, he would have to have sucked the tailpipe during the previous 3 quarters...not something that I would go around bragging about.

Thirdly, 75% of Ben's cache' is that he is so tough to sack. I find him a SLIGHTLY better than average QB. Better than Eli, and nowhere near as good as Brady. THAT being said, Brady loses points for lack of mobility. Rodgers has that, and a GREAT O-line...so the jury is still out on the recent upstart Aaron.

[YoungJRNY]

We agree. I've argued about stats for a LONG time that they could be very deceiving because everybody is so fabricated anymore of what the NFL has turned into (Fantasy Football) and what's expected to get into the Hall of Fame or Pro Bowl (stats.) That's why you see me go to bat for Roethlisberger almost automatically because the dude is so incredibly clutch when the time comes to be clutch regardless of what his stats say or how many T.D pass's he throws a year. To me, getting out of 3 sacks on one play, getting out of the pocket and hitting somebody on a 3rd and 15 to move the chains is more impressive than a dump off that goes for 15, 20 yards. It makes the game arguable I guess though.

It's really a dopey argument both for Ben and the Hall of Fame. First and foremost, stats don't matter nearly as much as you think they matter when it comes to Hall of Fame credentials. If stats mattered, guys like Aikman and Bradshaw wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame and Drew Bledsoe would be. Also, Ben is a Hall of Famer right this second. I think Ben is a better than average QB, but not a HOF guy. That said, no NFL QB who wins two Super Bowls isn't getting in the HOF. It's simply not the way the NFL has ever worked.

I wasn't referring to Ben and the H.O.F to the slightest, just arguments of stat more-so than anything when debating whether somebody is worthy of a Hall of Fame mention in today's day in age. Right away, people throw out stats and if they are deserving in that category more than anything and another look-see is how good you performed in the big stage (Aikmen 4 Super Bowls, Bradshaw 4 Super Bowls.) I was talking about Roethlisberger being a better QB than most without that stat that he doesn't have only because he's played bigger and better than most of the quarterbacks when his number was called to make a play for his team regardless of the surrounding numbers. Stats have a lot to do with everything and determine if your worthy to look at the next category. I believe it should be about what you meant to your team as an overall product and the wins and losses that stem with performance alone, not necessarily the stat performances that define your career when it's all said and done.

[YoungJRNY]

Just a few things:

First of all, the REAL definition of a 4th Quarter comeback states that you must be tied, or behind at the START of the 4thQ.

Secondly, in order for a QB to be clutch, or such a great 4th Q sensation, he would have to have sucked the tailpipe during the previous 3 quarters...not something that I would go around bragging about.

Thirdly, 75% of Ben's cache' is that he is so tough to sack. I find him a SLIGHTLY better than average QB. Better than Eli, and nowhere near as good as Brady. THAT being said, Brady loses points for lack of mobility. Rodgers has that, and a GREAT O-line...so the jury is still out on the recent upstart Aaron.

I understand and it's all worthy. Every person has their personal preference of what you see in a QB. Ben's game is to play big and strong, defy the odds in dire situations and wreak havoc when the play breaks down and beat a team with physical gifts more than anything. People love that gritty style. The other side of the coin is Brady beating you with smarts and having a quick like release and having a great intelligence in decision making that lacks the physical attributes to play any other way. It's probably one of the best arguments outside of stats IMHO.

[Ehwmatt]

Just a few things:

First of all, the REAL definition of a 4th Quarter comeback states that you must be tied, or behind at the START of the 4thQ.

Secondly, in order for a QB to be clutch, or such a great 4th Q sensation, he would have to have sucked the tailpipe during the previous 3 quarters...not something that I would go around bragging about.

Thirdly, 75% of Ben's cache' is that he is so tough to sack. I find him a SLIGHTLY better than average QB. Better than Eli, and nowhere near as good as Brady. THAT being said, Brady loses points for lack of mobility. Rodgers has that, and a GREAT O-line...so the jury is still out on the recent upstart Aaron.

I understand and it's all worthy. Every person has their personal preference of what you see in a QB. Ben's game is to play big and strong, defy the odds in dire situations and wreak havoc when the play breaks down and beat a team with physical gifts more than anything. People love that gritty style. The other side of the coin is Brady beating you with smarts and having a quick like release and having a great intelligence in decision making that lacks the physical attributes to play any other way. It's probably one of the best arguments outside of stats IMHO.

I love Big Ben's grit. I'd take him over a lot of the overrated QBs who put up gaudy numbers any day of the week (e.g., Rivers).

[YoungJRNY]

Just a few things:

First of all, the REAL definition of a 4th Quarter comeback states that you must be tied, or behind at the START of the 4thQ.

Secondly, in order for a QB to be clutch, or such a great 4th Q sensation, he would have to have sucked the tailpipe during the previous 3 quarters...not something that I would go around bragging about.

Thirdly, 75% of Ben's cache' is that he is so tough to sack. I find him a SLIGHTLY better than average QB. Better than Eli, and nowhere near as good as Brady. THAT being said, Brady loses points for lack of mobility. Rodgers has that, and a GREAT O-line...so the jury is still out on the recent upstart Aaron.

I understand and it's all worthy. Every person has their personal preference of what you see in a QB. Ben's game is to play big and strong, defy the odds in dire situations and wreak havoc when the play breaks down and beat a team with physical gifts more than anything. People love that gritty style. The other side of the coin is Brady beating you with smarts and having a quick like release and having a great intelligence in decision making that lacks the physical attributes to play any other way. It's probably one of the best arguments outside of stats IMHO.

I love Big Ben's grit. I'd take him over a lot of the overrated QBs who put up gaudy numbers any day of the week (e.g., Rivers).

Same here. He's so fun to watch but yet, give you a big adams apple in your throat the way he plays. He's so unpredictable. Just when you think he's dead in the dirt, he comes out of nowhere and lands a strike downfield. I remember back in the Mike Tomczack, Jim Miller, Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham & Tommy Maddox days when our QB would drop back to pass, we looked at the play through the cracks of our fingers. Now, we expect something exciting with #7.

[Ehwmatt]

Man it's fun watching Forte run.

[YoungJRNY]

Man it's fun watching Forte run.

Hard to believe what Chicago's inner-works are doing to him too. Shame.

[YoungJRNY]

Great game. A chance for Philly to get back in the thick of things and instead of holding a lead, they are right back in jeopardy.

My top 10 heading into Week 10:

1. Green Bay Packers

--------------------------

2. San Francisco 49'ers
3. Baltimore Ravens
4. Houston Texans
5. Detroit Lions
6. N.Y Giants
7. Atlanta Falcons
8. Pittsburgh Steelers
9. New Orleans Saints
10. N.Y Jets
-------------
New England Patriots, Cincinnati Bengals, Buffalo Bills

This league is so up and down right now I can barely fit necessarily teams in the top 10 and even shifting Something's got to separate soon.

[Enigma869]

Have either of you two game picking geniuses even once picked the Bengals this year?

Yes...more than once. In fact, I just picked them to win last week. I just wouldn't get a false sense of security with the good record they have compiled. It wouldn't stun me...even a little, if they went 0-4 against Baltimore and Pittburgh. Dalton has played very well, but he hasn't gone against defenses like those two teams have. I just don't see any rookie QB being much of a matchup for pressure defenses.

[Enigma869]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/72040 ... layer-poll


Top ten most disliked players in the NFL

1. Mike Vick (shocking)
2. Plaxico Burress
3. Ben the Rapist
4. Albert Haynesworth
5. Jay Cutler
6. Chad Johnson
7. Vince Young
8. Carson Palmer
9. Tony Romo
10. Jeremy Shockey

[Ehwmatt]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7204075/michael-vick-philadelphia-eagles-reportedly-most-disliked-nfl-player-poll


Top ten most disliked players in the NFL

1. Mike Vick (shocking)
2. Plaxico Burress
3. Ben the Rapist
4. Albert Haynesworth
5. Jay Cutler
6. Chad Johnson
7. Vince Young
8. Carson Palmer
9. Tony Romo
10. Jeremy Shockey

Shockey? What? Does he have a reputation or something? Isn't he washed up and irrelevant now?

[Enigma869]

Shockey? What? Does he have a reputation or something? Isn't he washed up and irrelevant now?

It's the NY effect. He always came across as a douche when he played for the Giants, and apparently, fans don't forget.

[Red13JoePa]

Vick pulled a McNabb last night.
What's he done since last November, anyway?

Guy is just not as good as many of his supporters advertise.

[Enigma869]

Vick pulled a McNabb last night.
What's he done since last November, anyway?

Guy is just not as good as many of his supporters advertise.

No real news there my friend. The guy really has never been that good. Last season was the one and only season that I ever thought Vick remotely resembled an NFL QB.

[Red13JoePa]

I think even THAT'S overpraise dude.


he had a hot6-7 game stretch.

ONLY thing saving Andy "Walter Camp" Reid and Vick from getting called out is that Kolb is playing the the suck.