OFFICIAL 2012-2013 NFL Thread

[AR]

My hatred for my childhood team took a backseat to saying goodbye to #52. That said, I cracked up seeing this!



Charlotte and Jacksonville are the future of this league. Baltimore should build a museum. Paul Tagliabue

[YoungJRNY]

Cool. Good for you, man. I've saved every single ticket stub I've went to since my first Steelers game at 7 years old in 1996. I have a huge ticket-book that ranges from 30-35+ games. I have some gems in there. The one you have is a gem. Glad you could have attended. I agree with John. That dance is made out to be a huge spectacle and aside from Tebow, Lewis is the biggest camera-junkie in the history of the league. But Lewis backs it up and deserves it. I agree with John. I think he's the best ever to play the game at the MLB position. It was an honor from a fan standpoint to watch him and more importantly, what be brought to the Pittsburgh/Baltimore rivalry.

[Enigma869]

I agree with John. I think he's the best ever to play the game at the MLB position. It was an honor from a fan standpoint to watch him and more importantly, what be brought to the Pittsburgh/Baltimore rivalry.

Just so I'm clear Travis, I didn't say Lewis was the best to ever play the position. In fact, I don't think he is. Out of the guys I personally saw play (And I didn't see guys like Dick Butkus and Ray Nitschke play, but they were REALLY good), Lewis is in my top three. NOBODY was better than Lawrence Taylor The guy was fucking NUTS. Never saw a player at any position play football like Taylor did. The thing that made Singletary's career remarkable is that he was every bit as good, but not a very big man (even for those days). He played his entire career as an undersized guy but was one hell of a player!

[Memorex]

I think the Niners can play GB well if their D shows up. I see they got their home field line advantage (-3) but otherwise odds look even. Should be a good game. I expect a shootout.

[RPM]

Packers are going down. 27-21 49ers

[Enigma869]

I think the Niners can play GB well if their D shows up. I see they got their home field line advantage (-3) but otherwise odds look even. Should be a good game. I expect a shootout.

I agree that this should be the best game of the weekend, but if you're a Niners fan, you better hope for something other than a "shootout". Colin Kaepernick isn't winning a shootout battle with Aaron Rodgers. Is not happening! That said, if the 49'ers defense can show up (and they've been exposed in some games), this could be a VERY entertaining game. Packers by a TD.

[conversationpc]

NOBODY was better than Lawrence Taylor The guy was fucking NUTS. Never saw a player at any position play football like Taylor did.

That guy controlled the game from the defensive side of the ball more than any player I've ever seen. He was unbelievable.

[YoungJRNY]

I agree with John. I think he's the best ever to play the game at the MLB position. It was an honor from a fan standpoint to watch him and more importantly, what be brought to the Pittsburgh/Baltimore rivalry.

Just so I'm clear Travis, I didn't say Lewis was the best to ever play the position. In fact, I don't think he is. Out of the guys I personally saw play (And I didn't see guys like Dick Butkus and Ray Nitschke play, but they were REALLY good), Lewis is in my top three. NOBODY was better than Lawrence Taylor The guy was fucking NUTS. Never saw a player at any position play football like Taylor did. The thing that made Singletary's career remarkable is that he was every bit as good, but not a very big man (even for those days). He played his entire career as an undersized guy but was one hell of a player!

I agree with that. I have Lawrence Taylor as the best linebacker EVER. He played a different position than Lewis within the crop of positions (Taylor lined up outside, Lewis made a living lining up across from guards and centers.) Taylor single handily revolutionized how offense's attacked defense's because of the straight terror he would bring coming off the edge. He was literally unblockable and is the best linebacker when it comes to the overall category. I have Lewis as the best in the middle, not best overall. Singleterry's a good argument though, but it's all up for debate. It's tough to exclude guys like Butkus, Singleterry and Lambert, but Lewis did it in a changed era against bigger and stronger offensive athletes and did it at a high level over longevity.

[Liam]

Divisional round....

AFC
BAL@DEN Ravens
HOU@NE Pats

NFC
SEA@ATL Seahawks
GB@SF 9ers

[Enigma869]

Lewis did it in a changed era against bigger and stronger offensive athletes and did it at a high level over longevity.

The bigger and stronger thing isn't a good argument (for me). Lewis is listed at 250lbs, and he looks at least 15lbs heavier to me. Dude is much more jacked than most other Linebackers who have played the position. Hell, Singletary probably didn't weigh much more than 225lbs for his entire career and wreaked havoc on the football field. LT was probably 6'3" ish and was very lean (probably didn't weigh much more than 235lbs). Those guys may have been playing against smaller guys, but they were much smaller as well. Guys like LT and Singletary could play in ANY era, and dominate. Lewis has had a remarkable career. I just wouldn't rank him as the best of all time. He's definitely the best of his generation. Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I've always hated Lewis' dopey, on field antics. The guy looks like a complete jackass most of the time when he's trying to draw so much attention to himself. I've always preferred the Barry Sanders of the world.

It's always a fun argument to argue who is "The Greatest of All Time". You can almost never get most people to agree. The only position I can think of on a football field that many would agree upon would be Jerry Rice as the greatest WR of all-time, and for me, I still thought Moss was FAR more talented than Rice, but didn't work as hard and didn't have the luxury of having Joe Montana and Steve Young throw him a football for 99% of his career!

[AR]

Lewis did it in a changed era against bigger and stronger offensive athletes and did it at a high level over longevity.

The bigger and stronger thing isn't a good argument (for me). Lewis is listed at 250lbs, and he looks at least 15lbs heavier to me. Dude is much more jacked than most other Linebackers who have played the position. Hell, Singletary probably didn't weigh much more than 225lbs for his entire career and wreaked havoc on the football field. LT was probably 6'3" ish and was very lean (probably didn't weigh much more than 235lbs). Those guys may have been playing against smaller guys, but they were much smaller as well. Guys like LT and Singletary could play in ANY era, and dominate. Lewis has had a remarkable career. I just wouldn't rank him as the best of all time. He's definitely the best of his generation. Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I've always hated Lewis' dopey, on field antics. The guy looks like a complete jackass most of the time when he's trying to draw so much attention to himself. I've always preferred the Barry Sanders of the world.

It's always a fun argument to argue who is "The Greatest of All Time". You can almost never get most people to agree. The only position I can think of on a football field that many would agree upon would be Jerry Rice as the greatest WR of all-time, and for me, I still thought Moss was FAR more talented than Rice, but didn't work as hard and didn't have the luxury of having Joe Montana and Steve Young throw him a football for 99% of his career!

With you on LT. Best LB ever. Ray is the best MLB with Butkus in the discussion. Singletary was very overrated.

What's funny is that while Singletary played for one of the better defenses ever, he wasn't the outright star. With never more than 3.5 sacks or one pick per year, he gained a lot of fame for the team around him.

[Enigma869]

With you on LT. Best LB ever. Ray is the best MLB with Butkus in the discussion. Singletary was very overrated.

What's funny is that while Singletary played for one of the better defenses ever, he wasn't the outright star. With never more than 3.5 sacks or one pick per year, he gained a lot of fame for the team around him.

We'll agree to disagree on Singletary being overrated (by the way....most experts agree with me, as I've never not seen is name listed in a top 10 of all time Linebacker list). Interceptions are VERY overrated for Linebackers, especially considering many Linebackers don't go out in pass coverage. As for sacks...also an overrated statistic. Hell, it's a stat that didn't even exist in the NFL when guys like Butkus and Nitschke were playing! Singletary was a VERY good player who was impossible to run against. LT is simply the most unblockable player to ever play in the NFL. See the list below from Yahoo on the top 10 Linebackers of all time. Travis will be happy to see two Steelers on the list. They have Lewis ranked third and it's tough to argue against it. I'm not sure anyone who ever say Taylor play wouldn't rank him the best of all time at his position. I actually felt badly for the offensive linemen trying to block the guy.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-7505900

[AR]

With you on LT. Best LB ever. Ray is the best MLB with Butkus in the discussion. Singletary was very overrated.

What's funny is that while Singletary played for one of the better defenses ever, he wasn't the outright star. With never more than 3.5 sacks or one pick per year, he gained a lot of fame for the team around him.

We'll agree to disagree on Singletary being overrated (by the way....most experts agree with me, as I've never not seen is name listed in a top 10 of all time Linebacker list). Interceptions are VERY overrated for Linebackers, especially considering many Linebackers don't go out in pass coverage. As for sacks...also an overrated statistic. Hell, it's a stat that didn't even exist in the NFL when guys like Butkus and Nitschke were playing! Singletary was a VERY good player who was impossible to run against. LT is simply the most unblockable player to ever play in the NFL. See the list below from Yahoo on the top 10 Linebackers of all time. Travis will be happy to see two Steelers on the list. They have Lewis ranked third and it's tough to argue against it. I'm not sure anyone who ever say Taylor play wouldn't rank him the best of all time at his position. I actually felt badly for the offensive linemen trying to block the guy.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-7505900

Side note. Singletary was once the Ravens linebackers coach.

[Enigma869]

Pretty good "Top 10 Running Backs Of All Time" List. As much as I LOVED Payton, I'd still rank Barry just a notch ahead of him.

http://football.about.com/od/legends/tp ... l-Time.htm

10. Marcus Allen
9. Marshall Faulk
8. Emmitt Smith
7. Gale Sayers
6. Eric Dickerson
5. O.J. Simpson
4. Earl Campbell
3. Barry Sanders
2. Walter Payton
1. Jim Brown (tough to argue with this if you've ever watched film on the guy)!

[Enigma869]

Just for you Travis. I finally found one list (and only one) that ranked Terry Bradshaw in the top 10 QB's of all time! This is actually a great column to read and I love the points made. Read what the guy says about Peyton Manning not even being the best QB in the history of his own franchise! Spot on.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark ... nny-unitas

[AR]

Just for you Travis. I finally found one list (and only one) that ranked Terry Bradshaw in the top 10 QB's of all time! This is actually a great column to read and I love the points made. Read what the guy says about Peyton Manning not even being the best QB in the history of his own franchise! Spot on.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark ... nny-unitas

While Joe Namath is definitely overrated, I do not get how some apply that to Bradshaw. 4 Super Bowls. Scoreboard. He was great.

Montana was the best I saw. Unitas I did see, but at the end. He picked me up out of my stroller at Colts training camp. Wish I had a pic of it.

[Enigma869]

While Joe Namath is definitely overrated, I do not get how some apply that to Bradshaw. 4 Super Bowls. Scoreboard. He was great.

Montana was the best I saw. Unitas I did see, but at the end. He picked me up out of my stroller at Colts training camp. Wish I had a pic of it.

I can tell you as an NFL junkie for many decades, the argument against Bradshaw is an easy one. Let me say this...Bradshaw absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. That said, if he didn't play his career on a team stacked with Hall of Fame players, he certainly would have never got in. He got in for winning, and again, I think that winning consistently means that he deserves to be in. I just would NEVER include him on a top 10 of all time list. Sadly, I never saw Unitas play, but LOVE seeing him at the top of this list. Nothing drives me more fucking nuts than people under the age of 30 believing the life started in 1985. I have piles of old NFL film. When I first watched Jim Brown on film, I was absolutely STUNNED how great he was. I doubt the NFL will ever see another back like that dude again.

[slucero]

I think the Niners can play GB well if their D shows up. I see they got their home field line advantage (-3) but otherwise odds look even. Should be a good game. I expect a shootout.

I agree that this should be the best game of the weekend, but if you're a Niners fan, you better hope for something other than a "shootout". Colin Kaepernick isn't winning a shootout battle with Aaron Rodgers. Is not happening! That said, if the 49'ers defense can show up (and they've been exposed in some games), this could be a VERY entertaining game. Packers by a TD.

We all know football is a team sport.. but clearly we can see when the absence of "key" players affects a teams performance.

I kinda think this game is gonna hinge on the torn triceps of Justin Smith. Clearly Aldon Smith is a different player when Justin Smith is not in the game, and as a consequence without that pressure on Rodgers, the 9er D-line gets much less effective, and their secondary then has to contend with a QB (Rogers) getting more time to find the open receiver..... and remember Rogers has been making his living this year on the pass. Don't forget Justin Smith got hurt during the NE game, after which Brady proceeded to pick them apart.

I think, just like RGIII, should a average Justin Smith show up, that leaves the 9er defense in the same position we just witnessed with the RGIII with a bum knee becoming a very average (and defensible) QB.

[slucero]

Shanahan should be fired for allowing rgIII to continue, dude was obviously a wreck since the first quarter. Shame.

Turns out RGII tore his ACL and MCL ....

[YoungJRNY]

Just for you Travis. I finally found one list (and only one) that ranked Terry Bradshaw in the top 10 QB's of all time! This is actually a great column to read and I love the points made. Read what the guy says about Peyton Manning not even being the best QB in the history of his own franchise! Spot on.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark ... nny-unitas

I can agree with that. I've watched a lot of tape on Bradshaw from my dads recordings of the 70's on all of his out of whack VHS tapes. I watched them puppies until the film chewed off. That list is incredible company and there has been amazing talent at the QB position since the sports inauguration. The thing with Bradshaw, is that even though it's true the defense was downright dominant, he was the respected leader of that Steelers offense and led that squad in 4 Super Bowls. He made clutch throw after clutch throw on the grandest stage of them all (all tight games) and clutched in the games most crucial QRT, the 4th. He always came up big, right on que.

For a QB, stats are stats, Indianapolis and New England run their entire team around the talents of Brady and Manning, sometimes throwing for 60 pass's a game in this modern era. Bradshaw came from a split backfield with Franco Harris and Rocky Blier carrying the load, an offense FULL of stars that needed their fair share of balls and for some QB's, they crumble under that. Though Bradshaw isn't the best of the best, because he simply isn't, I feel his scrappy-play and his dangerous clutch performances ranks him as dangerous as any passer on that list. Remember now, Bradshaw's first 5 years or so in Pittsburgh were AWFUL. He grew with that offense and he led them the way a QB is supposed to lead them, defense withstanding.

[Liam]

Top 5 QBs of all time??
1.Staubach
2.Unitas
3.Montana
4.Elway
5.P.Manning (Gets the #5 over Brady for basically being an on field coach)

Had to throw the legends in first, and while I never saw them LIVE...I've seen tons of games with Staubach and Johnny U.

[YoungJRNY]

Liams top 5 NFL QBs:

1. Roger staubach
2. Troy aikmen
3. Tony romo
4. Vinny testeverde
5. Drew henson

Honorable mention:

Quincy Carter haha

[Liam]

Wrong...if I was goin' all Cowboys, it'd be something like this....

1.Staubach
2. Aikman
3. Meredith
4. D.White
5. Romo

[Enigma869]

Top 5 QBs of all time??
1.Staubach
2.Unitas
3.Montana
4.Elway
5.P.Manning (Gets the #5 over Brady for basically being an on field coach)

Had to throw the legends in first, and while I never saw them LIVE...I've seen tons of games with Staubach and Johnny U.

You lose immediate credibility putting Manning ahead of Brady. Just plain, fucking dopey. I'm admittedly a lifelong Patriots fan. That said, I don't think Andre Tippett is the greatest Linebacker of all time just because he played for the Patriots. To me, it's not even close between Brady and Manning. Let me make it clear that Manning is a great player and a first ballot Hall of Famer. That said, what has Manning done that Brady hasn't done? Look at their numbers (and remember, Manning has played more seasons than Brady has), and their stats are very close. The difference is that Brady has won far more with far less talent around him than Manning had. Manning has made the playoffs 11 seasons, and in seven of those eleven seasons, Manning has puked on his cleats and been eliminated in his first playoff game. Fortunately, history is on my side. Unless Manning goes on a streak here and wins a couple of more Super Bowls (which I don't see happening), not many football historians will rank Manning ahead of Brady. Maybe 8 years ago, but definitely not now!

[AR]

VERY good NFL discussion here guys. Really knowledgeable opinions here whether we agree on all things or not.

[slucero]

interesting Harbaugh interview today... he pretty much alluded to Justin Smith not being 80% healthy...

GB is gonna be attacking h is side to get him out of the game..

[Rick]

Soon to be hanging out in John from Boston's TV Room. The new Samsung 110 inch TV.

WOW!

Wow. John, you hosting a Super Bowl party for the MR peeps?

Can you imagine all of us crazy people in your house?

[Enigma869]

Soon to be hanging out in John from Boston's TV Room. The new Samsung 110 inch TV.

WOW!

Ha! Classic. You guys know me better than some of the people I know in the real world. I've always been a technology junkie, so the CES show is always a highlight for me. For the record, I only have 100 inch screen in my home theater (overhead projector), and a 65 inch Panasonic plasma in our Great Room. I can't wait to see the prices on some of these 4K (4 times the resolution of 1080p) monster displays. They won't be cheap!

[Enigma869]

Wow. John, you hosting a Super Bowl party for the MR peeps?

Can you imagine all of us crazy people in your house?

I always have a Super Bowl party. All of you fuckers would scare my young children

[Rick]

Wow. John, you hosting a Super Bowl party for the MR peeps?

Can you imagine all of us crazy people in your house?

I always have a Super Bowl party. All of you fuckers would scare my young children

And probably your wife too.