Listening Party - Brave New World

[Toph]

OK sorry for the delay on this. Let's discuss what is to date, another controversial Styx album. There was so much anticipation for Brave New World, the first album by the three key singer/songwriters in 15 years. We were all looking for magic now that the DDY/TS/JY were back together again writing new music. We were certain that Styx were going to pick right up where they left off.

However, it never came to pass. The result...was a huge commercial failure and ultimately the complete dissolution of the band. Here it is in a nutshell from Wikipedia

Two years later, in 1999, the band released its first new studio album in almost a decade: Brave New World. The album received a lukewarm reception, sold very slowly and the single, "Everything Is Cool", failed to chart.

Once again, during work on the album, personality conflicts drove the band members apart. While Tommy Shaw's material attempted to bring the band into the next century and JY's songs attempted to convey a hard rock vein, Dennis DeYoung's more pop and Broadway-style leanings led to divergent sounds on Brave New World. According to DeYoung, another crucial difference was the fact that he was not the overall producer on this album, as he'd been on the others.

Arguments over which songs to release as singles, the album's artwork, the track sequencing, the slow album sales and the omission of DeYoung's vocals and keyboards from many of the Shaw/Young tracks fueled the fire. The band was further hindered by a viral illness contracted by DeYoung, which temporarily made his eyes sensitive to light. DeYoung asked his bandmates to delay touring, but they refused and decided to go forward without him. DeYoung was replaced by Lawrence Gowan, a classically trained pianist, who had achieved platinum success as a solo act on Sony Canada.[18]


Here are the songs. Notably, some of these aren't even available on youtube, so you'll have to find them somewhere else if you want to listen to this. Dennis DeYoung called this album "a missed opportunity." What do you think?

Witness http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZeHgdrNZNI
Brave New World http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpput-YVd0I
While There's Still Time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sq-DS_MP3w
Number One http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i7706eDJx4
Best New Face http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZbs51urLOs
What Have They Done To You - none available
Fallen Angel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqxbCFdn3w8
Everything Is Cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQMr-6M9O9A
Great Expectations - none available
Heavy Water only live version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0lh_z4d45E
High Crimes and Misdemeanors http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x45siJha3Q
Just Fell In - not available
Goodbye Roseland http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbbbzW3v8E
Brave New World Reprise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leltL1CJDDY

[masque]

BNW is a split personality album.....the songs that are good I would consider average to above average solo material quality. there is one super standout on the album and that is "goodbye to roseland". that song is one of the better ones DDY ever wrote.

the main problem with the album for me is that there are at least 5 songs on this album that are truly awful and i'm embarrased they ever made the cut. they are;

best new face
fallen angel (although i do love the line about sincerity)
great expectations
high crimes and misdemeanors
just fell in

and there is "while there's still time"....which doesnt suck but is just the very kind of tune I cant really stand DDY doing.....so while i respect that it is well written it's a tune i do not like at all.

so that brings the total of songs I skip up to 6 now.

i will be your witness and everything is cool are just decent solo songs to me....so they dont thrill me too much.

so that's 8 songs that I either dont like at all or at the best are just OK. so that just leaves about 5 tunes that i actually enjoy most times.

and that's the problem with this album for me, in addition to the shitty artwork. so to me they had 5 good songs to build an album from and they could have included a couple of more and that would have been ok.......but that still left them at least 5 songs short of having something ready to release.

overall rating= 5.7

[ztyxlynne]

Ok, this album was a huge disapontment. When I heard they where making a new album I was thrilled. I was hoping it was going to be in a vive of maybe Little Susie, On My Way, Dear John etc. I really was looking forward to seeing Tommy shine because Dennis does a good job producing him. Then it came out. What a mis mash of music! They really could have shined. Why let JY have any input on this album except for maybe one song? Witness could of been a hit with more DDY involvment. I thought I heard Tommy say that Brave New World was written for DDY to sing, maybe that is where the rift started? Just Fell In, WTF? Dennis,s heart does not seem to be in this album at all except Goodby Roseland. That is one chilling song. One of his best. I even heard that at a funeral once! No pictures of the band in the album, the artwork sucked also. This is a album really feels like they are breaking up making it, more than Kilroy. I give it a 4.

[FormerDJMike]

I saw this in the music store the day before it came out but they wouldn't sell it to me. The first thing I noticed was all the producing credits and I wondered why and knew something was up. The radio station I worked for already had the single for Everything Is Cool. I really liked the song (still do) and thought it was a good mix. When I bought the CD the next day I thought it was disjointed but I still enjoyed it. I thought it was a little dark and sad sounding but everyone had their own issues going on at the time. I didn't care for Great Expectations at first until a friend pointed out it sounded a lot like Walking On The Moon by The Police. That's when I really listened to it and enjoyed Tommy's guitar playing on that song. Has a great Fender Telecaster sound on it (I assume it IS him playing, because he can he heard on the backing vocals so I figured when this was done they were still working together). The album is weighted down with too many songs but really the only one I dislike is Hip-Hop. I listened to this a LOT at first and continued to play it regularly until 2003-2004. Havent played it in a while, I need to dig this one out again.

Greatly dissappionted in its overall sound but enjoyed it for what it was -- new Styx related product. I also didn't care for the cover art, but it looks better on the t-shirt. I Will Be Your Witness was released as a single to radio under the name "XTS" and was sent to our Top 40 sister station (they never played it and I no longer have the disc, I sent it off to StyxCollector ) I still have the CD singles for Everything Is Cool, Number One and While There's Still Time. I give credit for CMC for releasing 4 singles but they just didn't really have the money even being under the BMG umbrella. I really liked CMC at the time (kind of like Frontiers label now). CMC had a lot of classic and metal artists signed to their label. One of their big things was that artists had to tour to support an album and I believe that is why Styx hit the road to promote it when they did -- they were under contract to do so and to NOT tour would have been a breach of contract.

It is what it is. 1999. Wow, I need to listen to this again.

[gr8dane]

Mixed bag indeed.Like 2 separate albums in one
The only songs from here, that I kept in my I-Pod are,

I will be your witness
Brave new world
Fallen angel
Everything is cool
Great expectations
Heavy water
Brave reprise

Do prefer this album over Kilroy and Edge though.

[Monker]

I think that is pretty much spot on.

I saw this in the music store the day before it came out but they wouldn't sell it to me. The first thing I noticed was all the producing credits and I wondered why and knew something was up. The radio station I worked for already had the single for Everything Is Cool. I really liked the song (still do) and thought it was a good mix. When I bought the CD the next day I thought it was disjointed but I still enjoyed it. I thought it was a little dark and sad sounding but everyone had their own issues going on at the time. I didn't care for Great Expectations at first until a friend pointed out it sounded a lot like Walking On The Moon by The Police. That's when I really listened to it and enjoyed Tommy's guitar playing on that song. Has a great Fender Telecaster sound on it (I assume it IS him playing, because he can he heard on the backing vocals so I figured when this was done they were still working together). The album is weighted down with too many songs but really the only one I dislike is Hip-Hop. I listened to this a LOT at first and continued to play it regularly until 2003-2004. Havent played it in a while, I need to dig this one out again.

Greatly dissappionted in its overall sound but enjoyed it for what it was -- new Styx related product. I also didn't care for the cover art, but it looks better on the t-shirt. I Will Be Your Witness was released as a single to radio under the name "XTS" and was sent to our Top 40 sister station (they never played it and I no longer have the disc, I sent it off to StyxCollector ) I still have the CD singles for Everything Is Cool, Number One and While There's Still Time. I give credit for CMC for releasing 4 singles but they just didn't really have the money even being under the BMG umbrella. I really liked CMC at the time (kind of like Frontiers label now). CMC had a lot of classic and metal artists signed to their label. One of their big things was that artists had to tour to support an album and I believe that is why Styx hit the road to promote it when they did -- they were under contract to do so and to NOT tour would have been a breach of contract.

It is what it is. 1999. Wow, I need to listen to this again.

[FormerDJMike]

And I think ALL of us wanted to like it when it came out. It was very disjointed tho and lacked an overall direction. I kind of like the BNW concept but things just didn't pan out.

I forgot to mention that Best New Face was also released as a single, a remix version with guitar solos over the keyboard parts. At first I thought they had put guitars over Dennis's keys but then I later found out CJ Vanston played on that song and I guess that made it better. And the solos were an improvement over the original version.

All of us were happy they were making new music. And everyone had at least ONE song to rave over how much they loved it. Was the last time the entire Styx community had something to be happy about as a whole before the division took its toll on the fans.

[Toph]

Like most of you, I was really jazzed for the Brave New World album. Styx was on fire! 1996 was huge with the RTP tour, followed by the 1997 Grand Illusion tour. Then there was news of a new album. But then, we heard it was delayed...Dennis was working on Hunchback and Tommy was working on his own solo album. A few red flags emerged for me then, but the band was cool with it and said the new album would be out in 1999. Meanwhile, we had Tommy's solo album as new material (which for me was good, albeit a bit weird in spots).

Then we were getting pretty frequent updates from Tommy about how the new album was progressing and then...bam! the updates stopped. Nothing. Nada. Didn't hear a word. Thought something was weird. Then there were some strange things that started to happen on the paradisetheatre.com website. I can't remember if this was before or after it came out, but Dennis put out a strange letter about the cover of the album and showed an alternative cover. We got a few brief nuggets from Tommy, but there was not a lot of meat there. At one point, Tommy said there was 14 songs on the album and Dennis had 5 songs. That was more red flags - DDY having that few songs on an album with 14 songs? Was really excited to tune into the CMN Broadcast as I was sure they were going to use that opportunity to showcase some new songs. But alas, it was the same old same old (with Glen on bass as we had heard by this time that Chuck was not going to be part of the tour). And I also found it interesting that Tommy (vs. Dennis) had taken on the lead role of being the group's spokesman and talking up the new album.

Anyway, the album arrived the next week and a few things jumped out. I love reviewing the liner notes when I get a new album as I put it on for the first time. I did the same with this. And the first thing I noticed was how unprofessional it looked - spelling errors, grammatical errors, DeYoung..Deyoung....De Young....three different ways. I also noticed how production credits were split up. And there was no group or individual pictures! There hadn't been a Styx album with no pictures since when? Man of Miracles?

Now on to the music. And here is my song by song review.

Witness - I've mentioned this and the one thing you can always depend upon from Styx is a memorable, even magical beginning. Think of all their great albums...everything starts out with a bang. It hits you hard. This didn't. Kind of a nammy pammy beginning, and quite frankly, a nammy pammy song. Just really didn't go anywhere for me. And the chorus. It sounded like Tommy overdubbed over himself. Dennis? JY? classic Styx harmonies? Nowhere to be found.

Brave New World - This seemed interesting; proggy sounding; very minor chord sounding; a relatively big chorus, but again, I can really only hear Tommy overdubbed over himself. I can hear JY I think. But DDY on background vox? I can't really hear him and as a result the harmonies aren't as strong as would be expected. Sounds like Styx, but quite also different

While There's Still Time - I actually like this song a lot. I like it more than a lot of modern Styx ballads (Paradise, etc.). It was the first song to me that sounded like a classic Styx song. I think the chorus could have been bigger and louder. But this is the first chorus where I can hear DDY and TS definitely singing together (maybe because it was recorded 2 years prior!). But the melody is classic DeYoung brilliance.

Number One - my feelings about this song are almost as chaotic as the song itself. I like the first half. HATE, yes HATE the second half. The "Whose that..." interrupted by the guitar solo screams obnoxiousness. This song had potential, but it just feels incomplete. And it just kind of ends. Its a bit schitzophrenic.

Best New Face - A good Tommy solo song. Not a Styx song. Again, back vox. Tommy and JY. Is Dennis here? Maybe?

What Have They Done For You - I guess they thought they'd recreate the magic of Snowblind with a JY and Tommy duet. Does it work here? Absolutely not. A forgettable song. Another thing that bothers me, of the first 6 songs, 5 are are Tommy vocally led. The sequencing is awful on this album.

Fallen Angel - Not crazy about the jazzy beginning, but its nice to hear DDY's voice again. I actually like the first chorus - feels big; like Show Me The Way; but I think it is just Dennis overdubbed. This song is so different than what we've been hearing, it makes you do a double take. A lot of people hate this song. I actually would put it in the top 5 of this album. I know, not a high bar, but this is hardly the worst song on the album.

Everything is Cool - First, the title is stupid. Rule number one - Never use "cool" in a title. The montage is pretty cool. Why didn't this song lead off the album? Sequencing again, horrible. I hate the talking voice that Tommy uses. Dude, you have a great voice. Sing the damn song - don't give me this talk/chant vocal performance. The chorus sounds like classic Styx. Song might be a tad too long - especially the ending which drags on for almost a minute.

Great Expectations - Another dud. Dennis, don't do reggae. Don't use "Masterbate" in the lyrics of a song. It doesn't work here. I guess some might say it works on Billy Joel's Captain Jack. If there are lyrics that exemplify DDY's ego, its these. Its all about how great he is...I do hear Tommy's background vox in the bridge. But all in all, this is not Styx. Its stupid.

Heavy Water - Tolerable JY, better than the first one, but still not his best. The cowardly lion vocally is really out of the cage here. I like the acoustic guitar intermixed in this. No Dennis to be found on this. Also hear what I think are some backwards or really slow messages on this, but never figured out what they were.

High Crimes - Oh, things are getting bad....This sounds like a DDY solo song - reminds me of Boys will be Boys or something like. Tommy, JY are you all here? Enough has been said about the Hip Hop part - no need to say how bad it is. More reggae sounding verses here.

Just Fell In - And just when you think things couldn't get any worse...awful. How did this make the album? No DDY at all here. Sounds like it would have been right at home on the What If Album - and would have been one of its worse songs. That is how bad this one is.

Goodbye Roseland - Finally something good. But the chorus could have been stronger. A lot of people think this is the best song on the album. I like it, but the chorus isn't nearly as catchy as some of DDY's historical songs. No Tommy/JY. This is a solo song too.

Brave New World (reprise) - Maybe one of the worst songs in terms of recording ever put out by Styx. It feels like it wasn't mastered correctly and the mix is way off. You have that DDY "Here in the Brave new World!" piece that just sticks out like a sore thumb. Thankfully it ends a horrific listening experience.

The concept (whatever it was) never comes together here. Those that thought Kilroy was bad - at least it had a story/concept behind. What is the concept here? The album did get me to reach the book Brave New World in search of a concept. Even then I couldn't find one here.

What a disappointment. For the original lineup to go out like this really is a shame. I'd like the original three get back together to put out a new album just so this one isn't listed as the official farewell of DDY/TS/JY as a recruiting entity.

[Toph]

You can't blame CMC for Brave New World's floppage. By my count, there were at least 5 songs released as singles.

Everything Is Cool (Rock Stations)
While There's Still Time (AC)
Number One (Rock, AC)
Best New Face (Pop?, Rock)
I Will Be Your Witness (as XTS) to Pop, AC

Why Goodbye Roseland didn't make that list, I have no clue (probably cause DDY was out at that point).

[Monker]

You can't blame CMC for Brave New World's floppage. By my count, there were at least 5 songs released as singles.

Everything Is Cool (Rock Stations)
While There's Still Time (AC)
Number One (Rock, AC)
Best New Face (Pop?, Rock)
I Will Be Your Witness (as XTS) to Pop, AC

Why Goodbye Roseland didn't make that list, I have no clue (probably cause DDY was out at that point).

How do you know they were not under contract to release at least five singles?

Compare this to Journey's reunion album "Trial By Fire". Sony remastered and released every Perry era Journey album, and also remastered Street Talk. They sent special displays to retail to feature both the remasters and the new album. They also released singles, the first also included highlights of the remasters. Online they set up a Journey website with a HUGE forum area (OMG, the memories of that place...). And, they did at least one video.

Saying "the label released five singles" is actually not impressive AT ALL.

Frankly, I wouldn't doubt CMC had dropped any plans after the "break up" was announced...and when the first songs didn't do anything, they stopped caring about it at all.

[FormerDJMike]

They did issue the singles to radio. But there was no print promotion or anything else. I saw an add in Rolling Stone but that was it (when BNW was originally released there was the "alley" photo of them and a small write up about the new album). Normally record companies will send out the singles and then follow up. I know CMC had no contact with me or anyone at the radio station at the time. They just sent the singles out and that is it.

I remember hearing rumors that Everything Is Cool and Just Fell In were written with the intent to have Dennis sing lead on those 2 songs. I think they would've been fantastic with Dennis on lead. Just Fell In is a mediocre song but I think Dennis on lead would have made it a bit better.

[Everett]

Hopefully someone can upload cyclo & big bang to youtube????
If i knew how & had a computer right now i'd do it myself to continue
this partay

[ztyxlynne]

Does anyone have a copy or can post a link of Best New Face, the radio version with guitars over keyboards that they sent to radio stations. I never heard that version.

[Monker]

Hopefully someone can upload cyclo & big bang to youtube????
If i knew how & had a computer right now i'd do it myself to continue
this partay

Why does it have to be YouTube:
http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/Cyclorama/191576
http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/Big+Bang+Theory/379997

[Toph]

Hopefully someone can upload cyclo & big bang to youtube????
If i knew how & had a computer right now i'd do it myself to continue
this partay

Why does it have to be YouTube:
http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/Cyclorama/191576
http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/Big+Bang+Theory/379997

Didn't even know this one existed! Thanks for the info Monker.

I'll start a new post on Cyclorama.

[Toph]

Ok, this album was a huge disapontment. When I heard they where making a new album I was thrilled. I was hoping it was going to be in a vive of maybe Little Susie, On My Way, Dear John etc. I really was looking forward to seeing Tommy shine because Dennis does a good job producing him. Then it came out. What a mis mash of music! They really could have shined. Why let JY have any input on this album except for maybe one song? Witness could of been a hit with more DDY involvment. I thought I heard Tommy say that Brave New World was written for DDY to sing, maybe that is where the rift started? Just Fell In, WTF? Dennis,s heart does not seem to be in this album at all except Goodby Roseland. That is one chilling song. One of his best. I even heard that at a funeral once! No pictures of the band in the album, the artwork sucked also. This is a album really feels like they are breaking up making it, more than Kilroy. I give it a 4.

Didn't know Brave New World (track) was written for Dennis to sing? Interesting. Where did you hear that?

[ztyxlynne]

Not sure. I thought I heard or read an interview with Tommy that that song was written with Dennis in mind to sing. Again I can't be 100%. It just stands out in my mind for some reason. Maybe someone can clarify?

[Toph]

Not that it would have come close to solving everything wrong with the album, but a better track sequence would have worked wonders. Maybe something like

Everything Is Cool
While There's Still Time
Brave New World
Fallen Angel
Number One
Heavy Water
Great Expectations
I Will Be Your Witness
Goodbye Roseland

Yes, that's it. No more songs. More cohesive and tighter with elimination of much of the filler and God awful songs. Mix Tommy and Dennis songs together more. Length is more like a traditional Styx albums. Admit I'm having a hard time placing "Witness" - not sure where that would go. Could be second, but then you have 3 Tommy's in a row and I want to break it up more. I see Tommy and Dennis songs as lefties and righties in a baseball batting order - don't want to put too many together in a row.

With this sequence, you have a rocker with some coolness to kick off the album, followed by the ballad in the #2 hole, the mysterious BNW at #3, an slow then uptempo shift DDY at #4 with Fallen Angel (in the spirit of a NEGAP or Why Me). Traditional Side One would conclude with the soft/hard mix of Number One. In the spirit of GI, Po8, and Kilroy, traditional Side Two kicks off with a JY rocker followed by Great Expectations. In the #8 hole, Witness gets a Haven't We Been Here Before type position to start the close out of the album, followed by a summation/concluding song with Goodbye Roseland. No Reprise - it just doesn't work. If they redo Reprise, I may think differently, but I'm going as these songs stand today.

Best New Face, Hip Hop Cracy, Reprise, Just Fell In, What Have They Done For You become B sides to singles.

[Everett]

Hopefully someone can upload cyclo & big bang to youtube????
If i knew how & had a computer right now i'd do it myself to continue
this partay

Why does it have to be YouTube:
http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/Cyclorama/191576
http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/Big+Bang+Theory/379997

Didn't even know this one existed! Thanks for the info Monker.

I'll start a new post on Cyclorama.

I agree with topher. Never knew about this. Thanks again monker.

[FormerDJMike]

Ok, this album was a huge disapontment. When I heard they where making a new album I was thrilled. I was hoping it was going to be in a vive of maybe Little Susie, On My Way, Dear John etc. I really was looking forward to seeing Tommy shine because Dennis does a good job producing him. Then it came out. What a mis mash of music! They really could have shined. Why let JY have any input on this album except for maybe one song? Witness could of been a hit with more DDY involvment. I thought I heard Tommy say that Brave New World was written for DDY to sing, maybe that is where the rift started? Just Fell In, WTF? Dennis,s heart does not seem to be in this album at all except Goodby Roseland. That is one chilling song. One of his best. I even heard that at a funeral once! No pictures of the band in the album, the artwork sucked also. This is a album really feels like they are breaking up making it, more than Kilroy. I give it a 4.

Didn't know Brave New World (track) was written for Dennis to sing? Interesting. Where did you hear that?

Actually, it was "Everything Is Cool" was written in mind for Dennis to sing. The song's original title was BNW. Then changed to EIC when Tommy wrote another song with the title BNW. Just Fell In was also written for Dennis to sing.