Paradise Theater second guessing

[Toph]

Yogi's post about tracks and sides gave me pause. If the second side of the album is supposed to be another anthematic type song (i.e. Borrowed Time, Blue Collar Man, Miss America, etc.), then why would they have put Lonely People in the leadoff slot on the second side on Paradise Theater? But I'm trying to think of what else could have gone there and am coming up with nothing. Maybe TMTOMH? Wonder if the tracking would have worked better with Side 1 - AD 1928/RTP, She Cares, NEGAP, BOT, Side 2 - TMTOMH, LP, SB, HP2P, AD1958/SSS?

[yogi]

Snowblind easily could of led off side 2 of the Paradise Theatre album.

[masque]

i dont know, I guess I am sort of one of the few that thinks Lonely People is a fantastic song and for me, I love that it starts off side 2.

[Toph]

Snowblind easily could of led off side 2 of the Paradise Theatre album.

Too dark and not upbeat enough in my opinion to lead off an album side.

[Toph]

i dont know, I guess I am sort of one of the few that thinks Lonely People is a fantastic song and for me, I love that it starts off side 2.

I like Lonely People, but I'm just not sure it fits the bill as a lead off track for an album side. Seems like a mid side slot to me.

[yogi]

At the time I hated the horns on Lonely People( thought I was listening to Chicago who at the time I despised). Did not like She Cares at all either so for the first time EVER I had two Styx songs that I skipped.

Now I do like Lonely People- still and never will be a fan of She Cares.

The Kilroy album took me to a whole new level as a Styx fan. After about a month I never listened to Side One of that album again for years. I recorded side 2 on a cassette and listened to it.

[Toph]

At the time I hated the horns on Lonely People( thought I was listening to Chicago who at the time I despised). Did not like She Cares at all either so for the first time EVER I had two Styx songs that I skipped.

Now I do like Lonely People- still and never will be a fan of She Cares.

The Kilroy album took me to a whole new level as a Styx fan. After about a month I never listened to Side One of that album again for years. I recorded side 2 on a cassette and listened to it.

Outside of the two hit singles, side one of Kilroy is weak. Not sure what Shaw was trying to do with Cold War. Its a bad follow up to TMTOMH. Even more techno than TMTOMH. You know Shaw was on some serious drugs when he wanted a live version of this to be released as the third single vs. the much stronger HWBHB. High Time takes forever to get going - it could have been a better song, but lyrically its too tied into the concept and its takes to long to get to the chorus.

Roboto and DLIE are pop singles and got the airplay, but even they are the weakest of the big Styx singles. DeYoung put all his efforts into story development on Kilroy and not much into music creation. Shaw was out to lunch on Cold War, but I give him credit for two damn strong tracks on Side 2.

[Monker]

At the time I hated the horns on Lonely People( thought I was listening to Chicago who at the time I despised). Did not like She Cares at all either so for the first time EVER I had two Styx songs that I skipped.

Now I do like Lonely People- still and never will be a fan of She Cares.

The Kilroy album took me to a whole new level as a Styx fan. After about a month I never listened to Side One of that album again for years. I recorded side 2 on a cassette and listened to it.

Outside of the two hit singles, side one of Kilroy is weak. Not sure what Shaw was trying to do with Cold War. Its a bad follow up to TMTOMH. Even more techno than TMTOMH. You know Shaw was on some serious drugs when he wanted a live version of this to be released as the third single vs. the much stronger HWBHB. High Time takes forever to get going - it could have been a better song, but lyrically its too tied into the concept and its takes to long to get to the chorus.

Roboto and DLIE are pop singles and got the airplay, but even they are the weakest of the big Styx singles. DeYoung put all his efforts into story development on Kilroy and not much into music creation. Shaw was out to lunch on Cold War, but I give him credit for two damn strong tracks on Side 2.

You always insist on turning these topics into this kind of crap.

Tommy wrote "Cold War" about the relationships in Styx and dealing with DDY.

Well, blind faith put you where you are now
You're a selfish old cow gettin' high on society's milk.
We pay your bills, life should be so tough.
You'd better watch your fat ass, 'cause we've had enough!"

He was sick and tired, literally, of putting up with Dennis dictator attitude and bullshit in Styx.

So, it doesn't surprise me at all that he would push for a song that expressed that frustration rather than songs that he worked with Dennis on that were exasperating those feelings. Songs about a concept that he didn't want to do in the first place.

Get your head out of your ass and face the reality that Kilroy caused the band to break up...even DDY admits that it was a mistake to push for it. "Cold War" is evidence of that cracking of the stone. So is "Kiss Me Hello", which was about making the decision to leave Styx. Look at these songs from that perspective, reality...instead of whatever faerie-land you are currently dwelling in.

These were the things that were on Tommy's heart at that time...not "Haven't We Been Here Before" or "Just Get Through This Night".

[yogi]

So what was 'Little Girl World' about? Maybe a slight crush on Carrie Ann??? Who Knows???

Lonely School valedictorian class of 86???

[Toph]

At the time I hated the horns on Lonely People( thought I was listening to Chicago who at the time I despised). Did not like She Cares at all either so for the first time EVER I had two Styx songs that I skipped.

Now I do like Lonely People- still and never will be a fan of She Cares.

The Kilroy album took me to a whole new level as a Styx fan. After about a month I never listened to Side One of that album again for years. I recorded side 2 on a cassette and listened to it.

Outside of the two hit singles, side one of Kilroy is weak. Not sure what Shaw was trying to do with Cold War. Its a bad follow up to TMTOMH. Even more techno than TMTOMH. You know Shaw was on some serious drugs when he wanted a live version of this to be released as the third single vs. the much stronger HWBHB. High Time takes forever to get going - it could have been a better song, but lyrically its too tied into the concept and its takes to long to get to the chorus.

Roboto and DLIE are pop singles and got the airplay, but even they are the weakest of the big Styx singles. DeYoung put all his efforts into story development on Kilroy and not much into music creation. Shaw was out to lunch on Cold War, but I give him credit for two damn strong tracks on Side 2.

You always insist on turning these topics into this kind of crap.

Tommy wrote "Cold War" about the relationships in Styx and dealing with DDY.

Well, blind faith put you where you are now
You're a selfish old cow gettin' high on society's milk.
We pay your bills, life should be so tough.
You'd better watch your fat ass, 'cause we've had enough!"

He was sick and tired, literally, of putting up with Dennis dictator attitude and bullshit in Styx.

So, it doesn't surprise me at all that he would push for a song that expressed that frustration rather than songs that he worked with Dennis on that were exasperating those feelings. Songs about a concept that he didn't want to do in the first place.

Get your head out of your ass and face the reality that Kilroy caused the band to break up...even DDY admits that it was a mistake to push for it. "Cold War" is evidence of that cracking of the stone. So is "Kiss Me Hello", which was about making the decision to leave Styx. Look at these songs from that perspective, reality...instead of whatever faerie-land you are currently dwelling in.

These were the things that were on Tommy's heart at that time...not "Haven't We Been Here Before" or "Just Get Through This Night".

Hey ass wipe - since I started the thread I can comment on whatever I damn well please. And you once again, prove your ignorance about Styx. Cold War is Shaw's weak attempt to tie into the concept. If you have an interview or a quote by Shaw that says that it was about DDY, please let me see it. The quote you use doesn't even make sense in an anti-DDY context. Its the third verse that was attached to the live set, and while it has nothing to do with the Kilroy concept, also has nothing to do with Dennis DeYoung. If anyone is paying anyone's bills at the time, its DDY paying off Tommy's quite expense Coke habit.

Once again, its just another one of your pro_Shaw fantasies that are far fetched from reality. And yet, you always try to pick fights. Its one of the reasons that you were kicked off the Journey board. Because you come off as an asshole.

[Boomchild]

So what was 'Little Girl World' about? Maybe a slight crush on Carrie Ann??? Who Knows???

Lonely School valedictorian class of 86???

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm.........

[Monker]

Hey ass wipe - since I started the thread I can comment on whatever I damn well please.

Nobody has any special privileges here, regardless of who started what thread.

And you once again, prove your ignorance about Styx. Cold War is Shaw's weak attempt to tie into the concept.

Oh, please, NONE of Tommy's songs really tied into the "concept". In fact, a large portion of the songs on Kilroy didn't tie into the concept, including "Don't Let it End". Kilroy was a weak concept album that the band itself didn't want to record with the result of a mediocre album that caused the band to break up. THAT is what Kilroy is.

The quote you use doesn't even make sense in an anti-DDY context. Its the third verse that was attached to the live set

EXACTLY, which is why Tommy probably wanted the live version released.

If anyone is paying anyone's bills at the time, its DDY paying off Tommy's quite expense Coke habit.

And, the fact that the band went along with him yet again, instead of firing him, means nothing. Dennis needed the band to continue on, just as much as everybody thinks they needed him. They were empowering him and were getting sick of it.

Once again, its just another one of your pro_Shaw fantasies that are far fetched from reality. And yet, you always try to pick fights. Its one of the reasons that you were kicked off the Journey board. Because you come off as an asshole.

No. All I am saying is to put yourself into the perspective of what was going on in the band at the time. Being a member of Styx and putting up with the dictatorship was literally killing Tommy. Going about saying "coke habit this and that" does NOT look at the full picture.

When Tommy finally put his hand through the glass, it ended this charade of KIlroy being such a good idea, it ended this charade that he still wanted or needed to be a part of Styx, it ended this charade that the members Styx were some type of stage actors who do musicals.

That was the moment that forced Tommy to start taking control of his own life rather being in this dysfunctional band where one member attempted to dictate its, and his, every artistic direction.

I got kicked off the Journey forum because I was trying to start fights? That is so far from reality that it is just more proof that you like to talk to faeries.

[Monker]

So what was 'Little Girl World' about? Maybe a slight crush on Carrie Ann??? Who Knows???

It has to be about Toph because he's living in some type of fantasy faerie tale.

[Cassie May]

"Little Girl World" was actually written for a movie. The producer decided to go 80s New Wave with the soundtrack instead, so the song was not used. I have an interview, on cassette tape, in which Tommy discussed this.

[yogi]

What movie?

Remo's Theme 'What If' was written for the movie Remo Williams The Adventure Begins.

Never heard this about Little Girl World. What movie was it?, and what song replaced it????

[Cassie May]

What movie?

Remo's Theme 'What If' was written for the movie Remo Williams The Adventure Begins.

Never heard this about Little Girl World. What movie was it?, and what song replaced it????

Tommy never said the name of the movie. I have a bunch of old articles and interviews stored on my PC (I'm on my phone now). I'll go through it all and see if I can post a link.

[Boomchild]

"Little Girl World" was actually written for a movie. The producer decided to go 80s New Wave with the soundtrack instead, so the song was not used. I have an interview, on cassette tape, in which Tommy discussed this.

So money dictated the type of song here??

[Cassie May]

Actually, I just checked Sterling's book, and he wrote about it:

"Little Girl World" was an acoustic guitar ballad that also dated back to the Paradise Theater era. Though Styx had never recorded it, Tommy had worked up an arrangement with John and Chuck at one point. Shaw re-worked it when he was called upon to contribute a track for the John Hughes film The Breakfast Club, but it was scrapped when the producers decided to go in a New Wave direction and instead made its way onto his solo album." --page 182

And there you go.

[yogi]

WOW 'The Breakfast Club'- AWESOME movie !

That would of been HUGE for Tommy's solo career. I truly liked his Girls With Guns album. Saw the tour twice.

[Monker]

Actually, I just checked Sterling's book, and he wrote about it:

"Little Girl World" was an acoustic guitar ballad that also dated back to the Paradise Theater era. Though Styx had never recorded it, Tommy had worked up an arrangement with John and Chuck at one point. Shaw re-worked it when he was called upon to contribute a track for the John Hughes film The Breakfast Club, but it was scrapped when the producers decided to go in a New Wave direction and instead made its way onto his solo album." --page 182

And there you go.

I don't see it. It wasn't much of a "love story" and "Don't You Forget About Me" doesn't sound very "New Wave".

It seems to fit more into "Pretty In Pink" than "Breakfast Club".

[Toph]

Actually, I just checked Sterling's book, and he wrote about it:

"Little Girl World" was an acoustic guitar ballad that also dated back to the Paradise Theater era. Though Styx had never recorded it, Tommy had worked up an arrangement with John and Chuck at one point. Shaw re-worked it when he was called upon to contribute a track for the John Hughes film The Breakfast Club, but it was scrapped when the producers decided to go in a New Wave direction and instead made its way onto his solo album." --page 182

And there you go.

I don't see it. It wasn't much of a "love story" and "Don't You Forget About Me" doesn't sound very "New Wave".

It seems to fit more into "Pretty In Pink" than "Breakfast Club".

Again, Monker, in his own delusional mind, knows more than the biographer of the band. Un-freaking-believable...

[Cassie May]

I just looked up the Breakfast Club soundtrack, and the only artists I recognize are Simple Minds, Wang Chung, and Karla DeVito, who I wouldn't consider "New Wave"--she got her start as Meatloaf's back-up singer (Paradise by the Dashboard Light). However, in 85, when that movie came out, New Wave was still pretty loosely defined. If a song had a synth and a beat, it was New Wave--particularly if sung by someone from England. That much I do remember from my teen years and my non-stop watching of MTV!! LOL Everyone jumped onto the New Wave bandwagon, DeVito included, much as everyone put out a disco record when disco was huge. I wonder what John Hughes originally had in mind for the music, and I'd be willing to bet that had MTV not exploded, Tommy's song would have been on the soundtrack. It's pretty cool that he was even asked. Wonder what the whole tone of the movie would have been. Seems to me, the song would have fit Molly Ringwald's character, but that's pure speculation.

[Monker]

Actually, I just checked Sterling's book, and he wrote about it:

"Little Girl World" was an acoustic guitar ballad that also dated back to the Paradise Theater era. Though Styx had never recorded it, Tommy had worked up an arrangement with John and Chuck at one point. Shaw re-worked it when he was called upon to contribute a track for the John Hughes film The Breakfast Club, but it was scrapped when the producers decided to go in a New Wave direction and instead made its way onto his solo album." --page 182

And there you go.

I don't see it. It wasn't much of a "love story" and "Don't You Forget About Me" doesn't sound very "New Wave".

It seems to fit more into "Pretty In Pink" than "Breakfast Club".

Again, Monker, in his own delusional mind, knows more than the biographer of the band. Un-freaking-believable...

First of all, he's not "the biographer of the band". Sterling wrote book about the band. But, I don't think it has ever been called a "biography". And, your wording is implying that the band endorsed it or it is somehow official - it isn't.

I didn't say I "know more". I said "I didn't see it." That song being in that movie doesn't make sense to me. The explanation of why it wasn't included doesn't quite add up to me. It doesn't fit.

You want to take Sterling as the official biographer of the band and everything her writes as fact, except the times you disagree with him - of course, that's your business. I don't.

[Monker]

I just looked up the Breakfast Club soundtrack, and the only artists I recognize are Simple Minds, Wang Chung, and Karla DeVito, who I wouldn't consider "New Wave"--she got her start as Meatloaf's back-up singer (Paradise by the Dashboard Light). However, in 85, when that movie came out, New Wave was still pretty loosely defined. If a song had a synth and a beat, it was New Wave--particularly if sung by someone from England. That much I do remember from my teen years and my non-stop watching of MTV!! LOL Everyone jumped onto the New Wave bandwagon, DeVito included, much as everyone put out a disco record when disco was huge. I wonder what John Hughes originally had in mind for the music, and I'd be willing to bet that had MTV not exploded, Tommy's song would have been on the soundtrack. It's pretty cool that he was even asked. Wonder what the whole tone of the movie would have been. Seems to me, the song would have fit Molly Ringwald's character, but that's pure speculation.

You're right, of course.

First of all, "Breakfast Club" isn't a a love story. It doesn't have as it's plot a guy chasing a girl who refuses him even though she loves him. True, Ringwold's character and Judd Nelson's character have this back and forth chemistry thing. But, I wouldn't characterize it as the type of feelings that "Little Girl World" describes. Of course, the main focus of the movie is how different high school cliques interact when all of the peer pressure is removed and they are forced to relate to each other by being locked in a room together. I suppose you can loosely define "punk" and put the soundtrack into that category. But, I feel it is more 80's pop than punk.

When I think of what John Hughes film "Little Girl World" would fit in, "Pretty In Pink" came to mind immediately.

It is a love story about a girl trying to understand love. It has a character, Ducky, who is constantly derailed. The entire movie revolves around these themes...love is not a minor sub-plot as in "Breakfast Club". I am not very familiar with the soundtrack of "Pretty In Pink", at all. However, the movie features 80's punk style throughout and even has a punk music store as part of the story. "Little Girl World" FITS in that story and movie...except it's not punk, so the story about why it is not there makes sense, too.

So, I don't know...I would love to read Tommy commenting on it directly in an interview. It would be a kind of an odd question to ask nowadays. It is a question that is 30yrs too late.

[Toph]

Let's take a look at Monker's hypothesis that the third verse of Cold War is all about Dennis DeYoung. Never have seen this is any article, interview, or book, but since Monker says so (and we know how accurate and truthful he is), I guess we are just to assume that it is correct.

So, let's take a look at it.

"Well, blind faith put you where you are now
You're a selfish old cow gettin' high on society's milk.
We pay your bills, life should be so tough.
You'd better watch your fat ass, 'cause we've had enough!"

Looking at the first line, "blind faith put you where you are now"..this implies that there is no work involved that just by "blind faith" the individual who the lyric is directed to is "where he is now." Given that many reports and interviews I've read about the history of the band talk about Dennis's dogged determination and his perfectionism tendencies in the studio to ensure that everything was correct and his temper tantrums on the road if someone made a mistake, this doesn't exactly fit.

The second line "You're a selfish old cow getting high on society's milk." That would be true for a welfare recipient maybe or someone who takes from society and others. Seems to me the opposite is in effect here. Dennis wrote most of the hit songs, sacrificed a big portion of the royalties given the equal distribution of publishing rights, and essentially let JY, Chuck, and John ride him to riches.

The third line. Again, "We pay your bills, life should be so tough..." Again, not sure what Monker is smoking or snorting here, but its probably very similar to what Tommy was snorting back in 1983 when the band was paying for his cocaine habit... so again, it makes it hard to fathom this line is about Dennis.

The fourth line. Ok, the one line on this entire thread that could potentially be aimed at Dennis. And I'd offer only the second half of it is relevant. Dennis has never been a fat ass. That being said, its generic enough to be applicable to anybody and given the previous three lines, in reality, has no linkage to Dennis DeYoung whatsoever.

So, nice try Monker trying lie yourself into another pro-Tommy/anti-Dennis rant misguided as fact. You're grasping at straws. Get over it.

[Boomchild]

Let's take a look at Monker's hypothesis that the third verse of Cold War is all about Dennis DeYoung. Never have seen this is any article, interview, or book, but since Monker says so (and we know how accurate and truthful he is), I guess we are just to assume that it is correct.

So, let's take a look at it.

"Well, blind faith put you where you are now
You're a selfish old cow gettin' high on society's milk.
We pay your bills, life should be so tough.
You'd better watch your fat ass, 'cause we've had enough!"

Looking at the first line, "blind faith put you where you are now"..this implies that there is no work involved that just by "blind faith" the individual who the lyric is directed to is "where he is now." Given that many reports and interviews I've read about the history of the band talk about Dennis's dogged determination and his perfectionism tendencies in the studio to ensure that everything was correct and his temper tantrums on the road if someone made a mistake, this doesn't exactly fit.

The second line "You're a selfish old cow getting high on society's milk." That would be true for a welfare recipient maybe or someone who takes from society and others. Seems to me the opposite is in effect here. Dennis wrote most of the hit songs, sacrificed a big portion of the royalties given the equal distribution of publishing rights, and essentially let JY, Chuck, and John ride him to riches.

The third line. Again, "We pay your bills, life should be so tough..." Again, not sure what Monker is smoking or snorting here, but its probably very similar to what Tommy was snorting back in 1983 when the band was paying for his cocaine habit... so again, it makes it hard to fathom this line is about Dennis.

The fourth line. Ok, the one line on this entire thread that could potentially be aimed at Dennis. And I'd offer only the second half of it is relevant. Dennis has never been a fat ass. That being said, its generic enough to be applicable to anybody and given the previous three lines, in reality, has no linkage to Dennis DeYoung whatsoever.

So, nice try Monker trying lie yourself into another pro-Tommy/anti-Dennis rant misguided as fact. You're grasping at straws. Get over it.

Does debating any of this even really matter? It doesn't change a thing in terms of how Tommy felt at the time. From his own words and actions, we know that he was fed up, not happy with what the band was doing and basically had plans to exit the band after the KWH tour. So I think anyone can surmise that some of this (not the song) was directed towards DDY. His substance abuse adds a whole other dynamic to the situation.

[Toph]

Let's take a look at Monker's hypothesis that the third verse of Cold War is all about Dennis DeYoung. Never have seen this is any article, interview, or book, but since Monker says so (and we know how accurate and truthful he is), I guess we are just to assume that it is correct.

So, let's take a look at it.

"Well, blind faith put you where you are now
You're a selfish old cow gettin' high on society's milk.
We pay your bills, life should be so tough.
You'd better watch your fat ass, 'cause we've had enough!"

Looking at the first line, "blind faith put you where you are now"..this implies that there is no work involved that just by "blind faith" the individual who the lyric is directed to is "where he is now." Given that many reports and interviews I've read about the history of the band talk about Dennis's dogged determination and his perfectionism tendencies in the studio to ensure that everything was correct and his temper tantrums on the road if someone made a mistake, this doesn't exactly fit.

The second line "You're a selfish old cow getting high on society's milk." That would be true for a welfare recipient maybe or someone who takes from society and others. Seems to me the opposite is in effect here. Dennis wrote most of the hit songs, sacrificed a big portion of the royalties given the equal distribution of publishing rights, and essentially let JY, Chuck, and John ride him to riches.

The third line. Again, "We pay your bills, life should be so tough..." Again, not sure what Monker is smoking or snorting here, but its probably very similar to what Tommy was snorting back in 1983 when the band was paying for his cocaine habit... so again, it makes it hard to fathom this line is about Dennis.

The fourth line. Ok, the one line on this entire thread that could potentially be aimed at Dennis. And I'd offer only the second half of it is relevant. Dennis has never been a fat ass. That being said, its generic enough to be applicable to anybody and given the previous three lines, in reality, has no linkage to Dennis DeYoung whatsoever.

So, nice try Monker trying lie yourself into another pro-Tommy/anti-Dennis rant misguided as fact. You're grasping at straws. Get over it.

Does debating any of this even really matter? It doesn't change a thing in terms of how Tommy felt at the time. From his own words and actions, we know that he was fed up, not happy with what the band was doing and basically had plans to exit the band after the KWH tour. So I think anyone can surmise that some of this (not the song) was directed towards DDY. His substance abuse adds a whole other dynamic to the situation.

It does when one poster here continually tries to pass along deceiving and incorrect information as fact.

[Monker]

Wow, you just love opening cans of worms.

Let's take a look at Monker's hypothesis that the third verse of Cold War is all about Dennis DeYoung. Never have seen this is any article, interview, or book, but since Monker says so (and we know how accurate and truthful he is), I guess we are just to assume that it is correct.

So, let's take a look at it.

"Well, blind faith put you where you are now
You're a selfish old cow gettin' high on society's milk.
We pay your bills, life should be so tough.
You'd better watch your fat ass, 'cause we've had enough!"

Looking at the first line, "blind faith put you where you are now"..this implies that there is no work involved that just by "blind faith" the individual who the lyric is directed to is "where he is now." Given that many reports and interviews I've read about the history of the band talk about Dennis's dogged determination and his perfectionism tendencies in the studio to ensure that everything was correct and his temper tantrums on the road if someone made a mistake, this doesn't exactly fit.

Blind faith in Dennis in Styx' early days made him a selfish old cow because the band went along with his control and built his ego up to astronomical proportions to the point where he felt like he did everything, that he alone was responsible for their success, that his decisions were the only correct ones, and he should not have to - and didn't - listen to anybody else.

The second line "You're a selfish old cow getting high on society's milk." That would be true for a welfare recipient maybe or someone who takes from society and others. Seems to me the opposite is in effect here. Dennis wrote most of the hit songs, sacrificed a big portion of the royalties given the equal distribution of publishing rights, and essentially let JY, Chuck, and John ride him to riches.

"Selfish old cow" is tied to the first line. "Getting high on society's milk' is in reference to the success Styx achieved which the selfish old cow refused to give due credit to the rest of his bandmates.

The third line. Again, "We pay your bills, life should be so tough..." Again, not sure what Monker is smoking or snorting here, but its probably very similar to what Tommy was snorting back in 1983 when the band was paying for his cocaine habit... so again, it makes it hard to fathom this line is about Dennis.

As I said before, Dennis needed the band just as much as the band needed Dennis. However, Dennis' ego and selfishness refused to admit this and even give them the courtesy of listening to their opinions and complaints. Instead, the selfish old cow who was spoiled by past success plowed ahead ignoring everybody else.

The fourth line. Ok, the one line on this entire thread that could potentially be aimed at Dennis. And I'd offer only the second half of it is relevant. Dennis has never been a fat ass. That being said, its generic enough to be applicable to anybody and given the previous three lines, in reality, has no linkage to Dennis DeYoung whatsoever.

Yes, "you better watch your fat ass because we've had enough" is pointing out that the band, and Tommy personally, had been pushed to the breaking point and were not going to take any more. And, because of that he was going to find out that the band was a partner in the success that helped him enjoy the high life, the selfish old cow was going to be on his own to try to pay the bills by himself, and they were no longer going to put blind faith in a leader who couldn't care less of the opinions and complaints of the rest of the band. Dennis is still paying the price for this today.

And, BTW, "fat ass' is heard as "bad ass' by many people...so if you can't deal with one, use the other if it makes more sense to you..

[Boomchild]

It does when one poster here continually tries to pass along deceiving and incorrect information as fact.

In this forum, 99% of what is posted is based on opinion and speculation. Especially on a subject such as this one. Only Tommy knows whom or what he was actually writing about. I think everyone that listens to music has thought lyrics meant one thing and discovered later on that they were incorrect when the artist explains what they actually meant. The speculation on what The Eagles' Hotel California was all about comes to mind. At any rate, who really cares what Monker's conclusions are when it comes to the lyrics of Cold War? It seems to me that it's only you. Your responding like Monker is ruining DDY's public image. Let me assure you that isn't the case. I'm sure DDY himself doesn't give a rat's ass on what is posted about him in online forums.

[masque]

believe it or not, at first I despised cold war........then when I bought the "caught in the act" VHS tape I began to love cold war.......and overall, kilroy is my least favorite shaw styx album, that song is near the top of the ones of I like from that album.

the whole "well you talk talk and you get so intense" parts of the song are really really good, i think the thing that turns people off is the actual chorus hook of "cold war"....the way they sing those two words is just ok, but i love the rest of it.