Question on DDY Grand Illusion album vocal production

[masque]

yep

[Boomchild]

Dennis had a very interesting thoughts about this subject in his interview with Artists House.

[shaka]

While I'm sure Styx has used double tracking they use delay as a vocal effect quite a bit most likely in conjunction with a bit of reverb. Using delay on vocals can give a doubling effect. I think that's what you're hearing anyway. The same effect was used a lot on all of their voices.

[masque]

While I'm sure Styx has used double tracking they use delay as a vocal effect quite a bit most likely in conjunction with a bit of reverb. Using delay on vocals can give a doubling effect. I think that's what you're hearing anyway. The same effect was used a lot on all of their voices.

you are correct in that on occasion they used delay and reverbs.....however, the doubling effect that this thread has centered around was never created by delay alone......the areas where it sounds like his voice is doubled, is because it was actually doubled. that was the "go to" vocal production trick back in those days and was used on nearly every record of consequence for years. still to this day it is used a great deal.....but now the technology exists to allow it be done as a closer clone of actual doubling.

but make no mistake, there is no substitute for the effect that an actual doubled part creates. when you create the doubling effect by using a quick delay it will make the track sound a bit fuller, but it's only delaying what is there. on the other hand, the effect you get from singing the part twice is not able to be duplicated by a delay, because no matter how good the singer is they cannot exactly replicate their prior performance and that is what makes it sound so cool. that cannot be achieved to that level with a delay. only mimicked.

[shaka]

Wasn't just on occasion. Those items are on almost every track they sang.

I have my own studio and completely understand what doubling is as well as delay/reverb. There are doubled parts but they are not the majority of the vocal on those albums.

[masque]

yes styx, like almost all artists in the past 30-40 years, have used reverbs and delays.....but in the case of styx, those reverbs and delays are not always prominent or really even audible to the untrained ear.

for example, as ddy sings "welcome to the grand illusion", his vocal sounds processed not doubled. achieved by reverb and tight delays.

however, during the verses of come sail away his voice is very dry and any verb or delay is barley audible if at all. but when you move to the "i thought they were angels" part then his vocal is clearly doubled.....does it also have reverb and delays? yep, it sure does.....but the primary effect we hear and love and what this thread was based on was doubling effect created by actually doubling the vocal.

they also used reverb and delays on guitar solos, but a huge majority of those solos were double tracked, see "superstars" and "I'm OK" from pieces of eight for some examples off the top of my head.

all of those things, reverbs, delays and actual doubling are readily used devices, tools, techniques used on most records we all grew up with.

[masque]

Wasn't just on occasion. Those items are on almost every track they sang.

I have my own studio and completely understand what doubling is as well as delay/reverb. There are doubled parts but they are not the majority of the vocal on those albums.

I never said they were the majority of vocals on their albums....i said the places that it sounds like it is doubled was because it was doubled.

if you have a studio and trained ears then you should easily be able to hear the places I am talking about it. I know where the vocals are doubled and where they aren't.