Damn Yankees

[Toph]

Monker's posts once again prove how big of an idiot he is. Here are the facts:

Thank goodness DDY saw the coming trends and made a tweak in Styx's direction. Too bad that Tommy and JY couldn't adapt. Because beyond one new-wave themed song from Tommy Shaw in 1981, every major Styx contribution after 1978 begins and ends with DDY. He saw a trend and adjusted to the trend - its called being smart. Its called evolving. Journey did it. Foreigner did it. REO Speedwagon did it. They ALL did it. DDY was on the leading edge of the trend and those others followed. You know who didn't? Kansas. And guess what happened to Kansas? They disappeared when the decade ended and are known today for a grand total of 2 albums. They didn't evolve.

Even new RnR HOF inductees Cheap Trick evolved. After all, they gave us "The Flame," their only #1 single. Hardly a Cheap Trick song in the likeness of Surrender or I Want You To Want Me...

This constant bashing of Babe and that "it ruined the band" is so misguided and so devoid of facts. Its just so tiresome. Yet you push it out there as TS and JY's little monkey-boy mouthpiece. Give it up.

[yogi]

Rush didnt and beat Cheap Trick to the hall. Pink Floyd didnt change their direction.

Dream Theater came around in 1985. Their last two albums produced Grammy nominations. Their last three albums all entered Billboard in the top 10. I cant wait for their new double album, the rock opera "'The Astonishing' to come out Jan 29. I wonder the last time a double album debuted in the top 10? Dream Theater has been around for 30 years and has never sold out. Progressive Rock or Progressive Metal for 30 years and they are more popular than ever.

Im not saying Styx sold out, but damn Equinox, The Grand Illusion, and Pieces of Eight were to me by FAAAARRRRRR their best work.

[Toph]

Rush didnt and beat Cheap Trick to the hall. Pink Floyd didnt change their direction.

Dream Theater came around in 1985. Their last two albums produced Grammy nominations. Their last three albums all entered Billboard in the top 10. I cant wait for their new double album, the rock opera "'The Astonishing' to come out Jan 29. I wonder the last time a double album debuted in the top 10? Dream Theater has been around for 30 years and has never sold out. Progressive Rock or Progressive Metal for 30 years and they are more popular than ever.

Im not saying Styx sold out, but damn Equinox, The Grand Illusion, and Pieces of Eight were to me by FAAAARRRRRR their best work.

Paradise Theatre would disagree with you. And I've never heard one song by Dream Theater and I imagine most of the American public haven't either.

Rush and Pink Floyd aren't in the same musical category as Styx and weren't in the late 70s either.

[yogi]

Rush and Styx were pretty damn close back when Styx was doing Equinox, The Grand Illusion & Pieces Of Eight. They were categorized the same. The critics HATED Rush as they did Styx. Totally disliked progressive music. Styx was progressive, maybe not quite as much as Rush but progressive nonetheless.

Rush stayed true to their progressive roots as did Pink Floyd. Styx pretty much completely changed.

Dream Theater has had one hit but stayed 100% true to their progressive metal(rock) roots and they are now 30 years in selling millions of albums at a time when album sales have died off.

Styx started off and remained very close to the above groups in terms of genre until Cornerstone.

Don't get me wrong I really liked Cornerstone and I loved Paradise Theater. Shit, Dream Theater's upcoming The Astonishing double concept album sounds like it has a major Kilroy type of theme. But with all that being said for me Equinox, The Grand Illusion and Pieces Of Eight were far and away Styx at their creative best. Their music was more complex, creative and far better on those albums.

I do wonder if Styx would have stayed true to those roots with their solid vocals and the creativity those albums (Equinox, The Grand Illusion & Pieces Of Eight) displayed if Styx now would be thought in a far more respected light with Dennis still in the group and Styx in the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame.

We will never know.

Toph- You get a chance you ought to YouTube Dream Theaters only hit Pull Me Under, plus their last two Grammy nominated songs On The Backs Of Angles and The Enemy Inside. The Videos are awesome and their music is far and away better that anyones.

[Archetype]

Rush didnt and beat Cheap Trick to the hall. Pink Floyd didnt change their direction.

Dream Theater came around in 1985. Their last two albums produced Grammy nominations. Their last three albums all entered Billboard in the top 10. I cant wait for their new double album, the rock opera "'The Astonishing' to come out Jan 29. I wonder the last time a double album debuted in the top 10? Dream Theater has been around for 30 years and has never sold out. Progressive Rock or Progressive Metal for 30 years and they are more popular than ever.

Im not saying Styx sold out, but damn Equinox, The Grand Illusion, and Pieces of Eight were to me by FAAAARRRRRR their best work.

Listen to 2112 and then listen to Power Windows. Rush definitely changed. I love both albums and I love the band, but to say they haven't evolved is insane. As for double albums in the top 10, Iron Maiden's "The Book of Souls" debuted at #4 in September.

[Toph]

Rush and Styx were pretty damn close back when Styx was doing Equinox, The Grand Illusion & Pieces Of Eight. They were categorized the same. The critics HATED Rush as they did Styx. Totally disliked progressive music. Styx was progressive, maybe not quite as much as Rush but progressive nonetheless.

Rush stayed true to their progressive roots as did Pink Floyd. Styx pretty much completely changed.

Dream Theater has had one hit but stayed 100% true to their progressive metal(rock) roots and they are now 30 years in selling millions of albums at a time when album sales have died off.

Styx started off and remained very close to the above groups in terms of genre until Cornerstone.

Don't get me wrong I really liked Cornerstone and I loved Paradise Theater. Shit, Dream Theater's upcoming The Astonishing double concept album sounds like it has a major Kilroy type of theme. But with all that being said for me Equinox, The Grand Illusion and Pieces Of Eight were far and away Styx at their creative best. Their music was more complex, creative and far better on those albums.

I do wonder if Styx would have stayed true to those roots with their solid vocals and the creativity those albums (Equinox, The Grand Illusion & Pieces Of Eight) displayed if Styx now would be thought in a far more respected light with Dennis still in the group and Styx in the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame.

We will never know.

Toph- You get a chance you ought to YouTube Dream Theaters only hit Pull Me Under, plus their last two Grammy nominated songs On The Backs Of Angles and The Enemy Inside. The Videos are awesome and their music is far and away better that anyones.

Yogi - I will check out Dream Theater. Thanks. I would argue that duets with Til Tuesday's Aimee Mann circa 1985 are quite different from classic Rush. But I still don't put those two bands (Styx and Rush) anywhere near the same category. Styx was always well more mainstream than Rush - even pre-Cornerstone. Even before 1979, Styx had 2 top 10 singles plus Renegade that went top 20. Plus a few more mid-chart hits like Lorelei, Foolin Yourself, Mademoisselle, Blue Collar Man, Sing For The Day etc.which all were top 40 The only song that Rush charted during the same time period was Fly By Night which peaked at #88. Rush was never as mainstream as Styx. In its history, Rush has had a grand total of 1 song (New World Man) that even hit the top 40 (#21) and that was in the 80s. So, even to compare Rush and Styx prior to Cornerstone is apples and oranges because Styx was already more "pop" than Rush well before their 1980s transition.

Likewise, Floyd also had 1 and only 1 mainstream single in the same time period, Money, which peaked at #13. (Another Brick in the Wall was 1980).

The point of this is that Styx is a different genre than Floyd or Rush. If you are looking for an equivalent, you could argue maybe Genesis, but again, the same thing happened to Genesis around 1980. They got more poppy too. It was a trend across most successful bands at the time.

And I would argue that Paradise Theater is every bit as complex and creative as GI and suppasses Po8.

[yogi]

I guess I may somewhat agree.

Paradise Theater did take a major step back toward Pieces of Eight & The Grand Illusion.

[scarab]

[quote="Toph"]Monker's posts once again prove how big of an idiot he is. Here are the facts:

Thank goodness DDY saw the coming trends and made a tweak in Styx's direction. Too bad that Tommy and JY couldn't adapt. Because beyond one new-wave themed song from Tommy Shaw in 1981, every major Styx contribution after 1978 begins and ends with DDY. He saw a trend and adjusted to the trend - its called being smart. Its called evolving. Journey did it. Foreigner did it. REO Speedwagon did it. They ALL did it. DDY was on the leading edge of the trend and those others followed. You know who didn't? Kansas. And guess what happened to Kansas? They disappeared when the decade ended and are known today for a grand total of 2 albums. They didn't evolve.


Actually as you can tell by my avatar, i am a huge fan of all Kansas's albums. They did evolve. They went from semi progressive, and even mor songs to almost straight up rock, to almost AOR on the elephante albums (save a couple of Livgren songs).
They then had there biggest hit in 1986 in ages with a Survivorish song (all i wanted) . That album was pretty much straight up rock again. I loved it but I am a huge AOR fan. The Power songs did not go over with the prog fans, all i wanted was actually booed.

[Archetype]

I feel that without Dennis DeYoung's talent, vision and ambition, Styx never would have gotten any bigger than, say, Kansas or Blue Oyster Cult at best.

[Monker]

Monker's posts once again prove how big of an idiot he is. Here are the facts:

Thank goodness DDY saw the coming trends and made a tweak in Styx's direction.

LOL...too funny. You are too much.

Styx started doing progressive towards the END of that craze.
Then he spotted disco coming and completely missed taking advantage of that.
He then spotted album oriented rock from a long way away when he started emphasizing Styx' singles.
Then he hired Glen and, according to YOU, tried to go all glam - AFTER THE GLAM TREND ENDED!

Yeah, he really tweaked the band in the direction of coming trends. What a ridiculous statement.

He made ONE love ballad. Those type of songs are ALWAYS going in and out of pop music. When did Kiss release Beth?

Then this guy who people think somehow changes styles on a whim REPEATS THE SAME STYLE ON EVERY STYX ALBUM THAT FOLLOWS, EVEN BNW.

Too bad that Tommy and JY couldn't adapt.

They didn't have to. They had to fire Dennis to get Styx back on track to being a rock band.

Its called evolving. Journey did it.

Journey also had members entering and leaving with almost every album. Beyond that, until recently, they made an effort to not constantly repeat their sound from the previous albums. Journey never had a #1 single to get caught in this trap of having to repeat that level of success. They were an album band, as were all of the others you mention. Dennis turned Styx into a singles band , constantly chasing the singles charts. You and your endless pointing to meaningless chart success is proof of that.

Even new RnR HOF inductees Cheap Trick evolved. After all, they gave us "The Flame," their only #1 single. Hardly a Cheap Trick song in the likeness of Surrender or I Want You To Want Me...

The ROR:HOF is so political that the music has little to anything to do with it any longer. "Cheap Trick" shouldn't even be there anyway.

This constant bashing of Babe and that "it ruined the band" is so misguided and so devoid of facts.

That is not even the point I was making. You are making shit up.

"Babe" in itself didn't "ruin the band". Dennis constantly chasing to find singles to duplicate that success and showiving them down the throat of the rest of the band is what I said killed the band.

You sit there on your ass and type made up bullshit and make it sound like Dennis is so creative an innovative but he really hasn't changed much about the music he creates in about 40yrs...more than half his life ago. Even OYFN is throwback to Styx music. You can make fun of Tommy's blugrass album - but at least it is something different from Styx. Even 7DZ was a lot different than anything Tommy had done prior. Even Cyclorama was a more modern twist on the Styx sound...without a complete throwback, as Journey did on Revelation.

[Cassie May]

You are all forgetting that the main reason DDY made Styx change their sound was due to his reading an article in England during the band's tour there for Po8 that prog was on its way out. This from a country that was overtaken by the Sex Pistols and punk music. Because of what DDY read in England, he changed the sound of an American rock band. I guess we should be grateful he didn't make Styx go punk.

[Baron Von Bielski]

Monker's posts once again prove how big of an idiot he is. Here are the facts:

Thank goodness DDY saw the coming trends and made a tweak in Styx's direction. Too bad that Tommy and JY couldn't adapt. Because beyond one new-wave themed song from Tommy Shaw in 1981, every major Styx contribution after 1978 begins and ends with DDY. He saw a trend and adjusted to the trend - its called being smart. Its called evolving. Journey did it. Foreigner did it. REO Speedwagon did it. They ALL did it. DDY was on the leading edge of the trend and those others followed. You know who didn't? Kansas. And guess what happened to Kansas? They disappeared when the decade ended and are known today for a grand total of 2 albums. They didn't evolve.


Actually as you can tell by my avatar, i am a huge fan of all Kansas's albums. They did evolve. They went from semi progressive, and even mor songs to almost straight up rock, to almost AOR on the elephante albums (save a couple of Livgren songs).
They then had there biggest hit in 1986 in ages with a Survivorish song (all i wanted) . That album was pretty much straight up rock again. I loved it but I am a huge AOR fan. The Power songs did not go over with the prog fans, all i wanted was actually booed.

Good post. Strong points.

[masque]

I am gonna post comments to several things said by several different folks;

#1) Kansas did change hugely from Leftoverture, their first big hit album, and Audio-Visions, their last with the original lineup......if you listen to the songs on Leftoverture and then compare them to the songs on Audio-Visions are night and day different. Audio-Visions only contains 1 true progressive song similar to their days.....and 1 other that is close. But "got to rock on" is just pure rock pop. The big issue with Kansas losing their popularity in comparison to bands like Styx was because their two primary creative forces in Livgren and Walsh were both changing in what they wanted for the band...Livgren wanted to write christian songs and Walsh wanted to do coke and rock......they were no longer on the same page and it showed in their creativity and the overall cohesiveness of the band.

#2) Everyone keeps slamming Tommy's comment about wanting to rock instead of doing ballads and they continuously point out songs like Boat, She Cares, Sing for the Day and things like that.....I dont know how many of you are musicians and have ever played live before, but if you have then you will understand how truly different it FEELS to sing and play a song like Sing for the Day VS, a song like Babe or First Time. A song sing fro the day is a fun song to play and because of the non 4/4 time signature is an interesting thing to do.......however, songs like Babe and First Time are songs that truly do enter into the Barry Manalow/Air Supply territory and as a musician the only thing I would ever enjoy about playing those songs live would be the money entering into my bank account. I think Tommy was scared to death after the success of Babe that First Time would become their second Air Supply major hit and then all of a sudden those types of songs would become the centerpiece of what they would be known for and the centerpiece of their live performances instead of songs like Renegade, BCM and Come Sail Away. I have never understood why people dont understand this.....and the only thing I can figure is that many who dont recognize the difference have spent no or very little time on a stage playing live music.

#3 Rush did change tremendously through the years.......but they are unique in that no matter what they did, they still sounded like "Rush"......they couldn't escape their identity. mostly because of Geddy's voice......no matter what they did, they were instantly recognizable. because of that instant recognizability, I think it helped them survive their wandering into different areas.......and once again because of the bulk of their fan base was made up of musicians, I think most musicians understand and accept that as a writer, you get bored, you develop new influences and you enjoy writing new sounding things.....if Rush was still trying to write 2112 in 1985 they would not have survived, because their fans would have been bored, and they as musicians, would have been bored out of their minds.

#4 Archtype points out that they believe without DDY that styx would never have achieved any more success than Kansas or Blue Osyter Cult and I want to respectfully point out that Kansas was one of the biggest bands in America from about 1976 through around 1980.......selling millions of albums and playing to sold out arenas on their tours......they weren't some mid level band......Kansas was a major player in the world of rock and roll for a long time.......and even though their glory days were 76-80, they still had hits and played major tours through 85. any belief other than what I have specified above is simply misinformed.

[Boomchild]

#2) Everyone keeps slamming Tommy's comment about wanting to rock instead of doing ballads and they continuously point out songs like Boat, She Cares, Sing for the Day and things like that.....I dont know how many of you are musicians and have ever played live before, but if you have then you will understand how truly different it FEELS to sing and play a song like Sing for the Day VS, a song like Babe or First Time. A song sing fro the day is a fun song to play and because of the non 4/4 time signature is an interesting thing to do.......however, songs like Babe and First Time are songs that truly do enter into the Barry Manalow/Air Supply territory and as a musician the only thing I would ever enjoy about playing those songs live would be the money entering into my bank account. I think Tommy was scared to death after the success of Babe that First Time would become their second Air Supply major hit and then all of a sudden those types of songs would become the centerpiece of what they would be known for and the centerpiece of their live performances instead of songs like Renegade, BCM and Come Sail Away. I have never understood why people dont understand this.....and the only thing I can figure is that many who dont recognize the difference have spent no or very little time on a stage playing live music.

As to what type of song is fun or not fun to play is based on personal taste. It's seems to me you are painting with broad brush with this example. I highly doubt this apples to all musicians that play live. It doesn't take into account the personal feelings a musician may have about the material being played.

[masque]

#2) Everyone keeps slamming Tommy's comment about wanting to rock instead of doing ballads and they continuously point out songs like Boat, She Cares, Sing for the Day and things like that.....I dont know how many of you are musicians and have ever played live before, but if you have then you will understand how truly different it FEELS to sing and play a song like Sing for the Day VS, a song like Babe or First Time. A song sing fro the day is a fun song to play and because of the non 4/4 time signature is an interesting thing to do.......however, songs like Babe and First Time are songs that truly do enter into the Barry Manalow/Air Supply territory and as a musician the only thing I would ever enjoy about playing those songs live would be the money entering into my bank account. I think Tommy was scared to death after the success of Babe that First Time would become their second Air Supply major hit and then all of a sudden those types of songs would become the centerpiece of what they would be known for and the centerpiece of their live performances instead of songs like Renegade, BCM and Come Sail Away. I have never understood why people dont understand this.....and the only thing I can figure is that many who dont recognize the difference have spent no or very little time on a stage playing live music.

As to what type of song is fun or not fun to play is based on personal taste. It's seems to me you are painting with broad brush with this example. I highly doubt this apples to all musicians that play live. It doesn't take into account the personal feelings a musician may have about the material being played.

it is a broad brush.....but I can virtually guarantee you that for 95% of guitarists playing a song like Babe or First Time and NOT being the writer of the song would be very very boring, especially when you consider the other much more interesting songs they could play live in place of those mentioned. regardless of how broad the brush is, does not make it less true.

dont mistake that what I am saying means that Babe or First Time are bad songs......they are both well written.....but I dont know ANY guitarists that would EVER pick to play those songs over nearly anything else in their catalog.

[gr8dane]

When I was a young wee tyke,I used to hate naps ,getting spanked and listening to Babe and First Time.
These days I don't mind naps and getting spanked.

[Monker]

#2) Everyone keeps slamming Tommy's comment about wanting to rock instead of doing ballads and they continuously point out songs like Boat, She Cares, Sing for the Day and things like that.....I dont know how many of you are musicians and have ever played live before, but if you have then you will understand how truly different it FEELS to sing and play a song like Sing for the Day VS, a song like Babe or First Time. A song sing fro the day is a fun song to play and because of the non 4/4 time signature is an interesting thing to do.......however, songs like Babe and First Time are songs that truly do enter into the Barry Manalow/Air Supply territory and as a musician the only thing I would ever enjoy about playing those songs live would be the money entering into my bank account. I think Tommy was scared to death after the success of Babe that First Time would become their second Air Supply major hit and then all of a sudden those types of songs would become the centerpiece of what they would be known for and the centerpiece of their live performances instead of songs like Renegade, BCM and Come Sail Away. I have never understood why people dont understand this.....and the only thing I can figure is that many who dont recognize the difference have spent no or very little time on a stage playing live music.

As to what type of song is fun or not fun to play is based on personal taste. It's seems to me you are painting with broad brush with this example. I highly doubt this apples to all musicians that play live. It doesn't take into account the personal feelings a musician may have about the material being played.

it is a broad brush.....but I can virtually guarantee you that for 95% of guitarists playing a song like Babe or First Time and NOT being the writer of the song would be very very boring, especially when you consider the other much more interesting songs they could play live in place of those mentioned. regardless of how broad the brush is, does not make it less true.

dont mistake that what I am saying means that Babe or First Time are bad songs......they are both well written.....but I dont know ANY guitarists that would EVER pick to play those songs over nearly anything else in their catalog.

Even with the little bit that I have played guitar I understand what you are saying. There are songs that are simply fun to learn and play regardless of genre or subject. The first thing I wanted to learn was the intro to "Soul Man". I've always felt it had such cool sound. It is absolutely not hard to play..in fact, it's very easy. But, it's FUN....the whole song is fun. Then I wanted something else that was easy so I looked up the tabs for "Open Arms". Ok, it's easy....but it's BORING. I'd rather learn the solo for "Who's Cryin' Now", because, again, it's FUN.

And, I think you are right. You really can't understand until you have a desire to play and start picking out songs to learn. Then you realize that some songs are doing some unique things to get unique sounds while others are simply picking notes to keep up with a simple melody. One is fun, the other isn't.

[Toph]

Monker's posts once again prove how big of an idiot he is. Here are the facts:

Thank goodness DDY saw the coming trends and made a tweak in Styx's direction.

LOL...too funny. You are too much.

Styx started doing progressive towards the END of that craze.
Then he spotted disco coming and completely missed taking advantage of that.
He then spotted album oriented rock from a long way away when he started emphasizing Styx' singles.
Then he hired Glen and, according to YOU, tried to go all glam - AFTER THE GLAM TREND ENDED!

Yeah, he really tweaked the band in the direction of coming trends. What a ridiculous statement.

He made ONE love ballad. Those type of songs are ALWAYS going in and out of pop music. When did Kiss release Beth?

Then this guy who people think somehow changes styles on a whim REPEATS THE SAME STYLE ON EVERY STYX ALBUM THAT FOLLOWS, EVEN BNW.

Too bad that Tommy and JY couldn't adapt.

They didn't have to. They had to fire Dennis to get Styx back on track to being a rock band.

Its called evolving. Journey did it.

Journey also had members entering and leaving with almost every album. Beyond that, until recently, they made an effort to not constantly repeat their sound from the previous albums. Journey never had a #1 single to get caught in this trap of having to repeat that level of success. They were an album band, as were all of the others you mention. Dennis turned Styx into a singles band , constantly chasing the singles charts. You and your endless pointing to meaningless chart success is proof of that.

Even new RnR HOF inductees Cheap Trick evolved. After all, they gave us "The Flame," their only #1 single. Hardly a Cheap Trick song in the likeness of Surrender or I Want You To Want Me...

The ROR:HOF is so political that the music has little to anything to do with it any longer. "Cheap Trick" shouldn't even be there anyway.

This constant bashing of Babe and that "it ruined the band" is so misguided and so devoid of facts.

That is not even the point I was making. You are making shit up.

"Babe" in itself didn't "ruin the band". Dennis constantly chasing to find singles to duplicate that success and showiving them down the throat of the rest of the band is what I said killed the band.

You sit there on your ass and type made up bullshit and make it sound like Dennis is so creative an innovative but he really hasn't changed much about the music he creates in about 40yrs...more than half his life ago. Even OYFN is throwback to Styx music. You can make fun of Tommy's blugrass album - but at least it is something different from Styx. Even 7DZ was a lot different than anything Tommy had done prior. Even Cyclorama was a more modern twist on the Styx sound...without a complete throwback, as Journey did on Revelation.

I leave for a week and come back and see that Monkeyboy is still full of shit. I don't know where to start on your idiotic post, because its all so full of it to piecemeal break it down is a colossal waste of time. But let me address two points. 1) DDY did not try to recreate Babe. You could argue that Babe was not the first ballad of DDY. Certainly Lady is a ballad, albeit a harder rocking one. Pieces of Eight? Aku Aku? Sing For The Fucking Day? The first half of CSA? 2) You never addressed my point re: Journey. Because you are such a fanboy of that band, you are ok that they went the ballad route and Styx didn't. That makes total illogical sense - which of course is par for the course for you Monkhead. And you clearly don't know much about Journey. Between 1977 and 1996, they had exactly 1, yes 1 change in their core songwriting lineup - Rollie for Cain. Perry and Schon stayed the same and Cain replaced Rollie. That was it. So give that up as well.

Glad to see you are just as big an idiot in 2016 as 2015 and prior.

[Toph]

You are all forgetting that the main reason DDY made Styx change their sound was due to his reading an article in England during the band's tour there for Po8 that prog was on its way out. This from a country that was overtaken by the Sex Pistols and punk music. Because of what DDY read in England, he changed the sound of an American rock band. I guess we should be grateful he didn't make Styx go punk.

It wasn't an article, he was over there and saw what was happening.

[Toph]

#2) Everyone keeps slamming Tommy's comment about wanting to rock instead of doing ballads and they continuously point out songs like Boat, She Cares, Sing for the Day and things like that.....I dont know how many of you are musicians and have ever played live before, but if you have then you will understand how truly different it FEELS to sing and play a song like Sing for the Day VS, a song like Babe or First Time. A song sing fro the day is a fun song to play and because of the non 4/4 time signature is an interesting thing to do.......however, songs like Babe and First Time are songs that truly do enter into the Barry Manalow/Air Supply territory and as a musician the only thing I would ever enjoy about playing those songs live would be the money entering into my bank account. I think Tommy was scared to death after the success of Babe that First Time would become their second Air Supply major hit and then all of a sudden those types of songs would become the centerpiece of what they would be known for and the centerpiece of their live performances instead of songs like Renegade, BCM and Come Sail Away. I have never understood why people dont understand this.....and the only thing I can figure is that many who dont recognize the difference have spent no or very little time on a stage playing live music.

As to what type of song is fun or not fun to play is based on personal taste. It's seems to me you are painting with broad brush with this example. I highly doubt this apples to all musicians that play live. It doesn't take into account the personal feelings a musician may have about the material being played.

Again, I would also point out that Mick Jones, Neil Schon, and Gary Richrath certainly played those songs as well. I still cannot understand why Styx gets slammed for ballads but Foreigner, Journey, and REO get a pass.

[Monker]

You never addressed my point re: Journey. Because you are such a fanboy of that band, you are ok that they went the ballad route and Styx didn't. That makes total illogical sense - which of course is par for the course for you Monkhead.

You have got to be fucking kidding me. You are completely ignorant and a moron. I have critiqued Journey on forums like this literally for DECADES for both ROR and TBF. It is VERY well known. I do not have to reiterate that critique just to satisfy a peon like you. This supposed to be a Styx forum.

And you clearly don't know much about Journey. Between 1977 and 1996

Journey didn't start in 1977, dumbass. Even on those first early ablums they changed players and evolved trying to find a sound. "Next" found the band trying to move more vocal but not too successfully.. Following "Next", they hired Perry which was an evolution in sound for Infinity. Infinity was much more vocal and single oriented but held on to some of the Progressive style from the first three albums. After Infinity they dumped Aynsley Dunbar specifically because his style did not fit the more vocal style they were writing for and went with Steve Smith. "Departure", IMO, seemed like they allowed Gregg a lot more influence because he was leaving the band and it does not sound anything like Infinity or Evolution. Between Departure and Escape, as you so "wisely" pointed out they changed from Gregg Rolie to Jonathan Cain...and had a much more piano focued sound...which continued for Frontiers. Though on Frontiers, Neal had more influence, especially on side "B". Then, ROR, had Ross Valory and Steve Smith replaced by computers in the writing process and with hired hands in the studio and tour. The result was the pop sounding ROR. Then the Escape lineup reunited for TBF but the sound was very much like Neal's "Beyond the Thunder" with lyrics. Then of course, Arrival with Steve Augeri, and "Revelation" with Arnel, and Neal flexing his muscle with "Eclipse".

Every album had change and the sound evolved. Get over it.

[Monker]

Again, I would also point out that Mick Jones, Neil Schon, and Gary Richrath certainly played those songs as well. I still cannot understand why Styx gets slammed for ballads but Foreigner, Journey, and REO get a pass.

First of all, it's NEAl Schon.

Second, he's whined and complained about ballads for nearly 40yrs. He hated "Open Arms". He's always wanted Journey to sound more like Van Halan and can't stand the fact that he is in a pop band. This is exactly why Eclipse sounds like it does and why the "B" side of Frontiers is so much more guitar driven. When talking about the ROR sessions, he said he would show up and Perry would say, "You obviously are not going to be good for anything today." and he would cut his solo or other guitar part in one take and leave because he hated Steve Perry so much at that time.

If you had spent ANY time in Journey forums back when they actually talked about Journey, you would KNOW these things. The fans critique Journey in almost the EXACT SAME WAY as fans critique Styx. It's just that this isn't a Journey forum, and Journey, honestly, has other things to talk about....like how big Steve Perry's nose is, how good he sounds singing the phone book, and if he's cut his hair, and other important stuff like that.

[yogi]

You two ought to get married

[Baron Von Bielski]

Anyways, I feel Damn Yankees could garner enough attendance as part of a triple bill just like is required for Styx and Night Ranger to effectively tour. As long as it's not hunting season, I think it's the right time for a reunion tour. It'd work easily packaged with bands like Def Leppard for one and or Tesla for another. I'd go see it.

[Monker]

Anyways, I feel Damn Yankees could garner enough attendance as part of a triple bill just like is required for Styx and Night Ranger to effectively tour. As long as it's not hunting season, I think it's the right time for a reunion tour. It'd work easily packaged with bands like Def Leppard for one and or Tesla for another. I'd go see it.

As long as it's not with Firehouse, Poison, or that band with the chainsaw....I agree.

Way back when, I kinda wished they toured with Bad English. Journey, DY, and John Waite wouldn't be bad either.

[Baron Von Bielski]

Anyways, I feel Damn Yankees could garner enough attendance as part of a triple bill just like is required for Styx and Night Ranger to effectively tour. As long as it's not hunting season, I think it's the right time for a reunion tour. It'd work easily packaged with bands like Def Leppard for one and or Tesla for another. I'd go see it.

As long as it's not with Firehouse, Poison, or that band with the chainsaw....I agree.

Way back when, I kinda wished they toured with Bad English. Journey, DY, and John Waite wouldn't be bad either.

Yeah, no way could I see Ted playing on a bill with the likes of Poison. Touring with Journey would work well, totally agree.

[Boomchild]

Anyways, I feel Damn Yankees could garner enough attendance as part of a triple bill just like is required for Styx and Night Ranger to effectively tour. As long as it's not hunting season, I think it's the right time for a reunion tour. It'd work easily packaged with bands like Def Leppard for one and or Tesla for another. I'd go see it.

I don't feel they could. Their period of relevance was very short. I think that casual music listener has forgotten them. I don't see a promoter investing in it since the casual fan is what these shows are geared toward. I listen to classic rock stations quite a bit and I don't think I have ever heard them play any of their material. They are playing other bands of that era such as Bon Jovi and Scorpions.

[yogi]

Heres the tour that I would love to see. 4 acts all centering around the immense talents of Jack Blades & Tommy Shaw

Shaw/Blades, Night Ranger, Damn Yankees & Styx

Shaw/Blades opens for around 20- 30 minutes and then rotate the other 3 in any order that they all want & agree to.

Tommy & Jack are going to pull in triple duty but for about 25-45 dates I think its something that Tommy/Jack and all the players will look back on fondly one day. This also could serve as a huge tribute of sorts for Jack & Tommy.

This would be pretty damn cool & I think that it would sell

[ztyxlynne]

If I'm not mistaken, dosent Tommy and Jack have a new Shaw,Blades album done and in the can for a few years now? I thought it was another covers album. Those two haven done much recently.

[masque]

Anyways, I feel Damn Yankees could garner enough attendance as part of a triple bill just like is required for Styx and Night Ranger to effectively tour. As long as it's not hunting season, I think it's the right time for a reunion tour. It'd work easily packaged with bands like Def Leppard for one and or Tesla for another. I'd go see it.

As long as it's not with Firehouse, Poison, or that band with the chainsaw....I agree.

Way back when, I kinda wished they toured with Bad English. Journey, DY, and John Waite wouldn't be bad either.

Yeah, no way could I see Ted playing on a bill with the likes of Poison. Touring with Journey would work well, totally agree.

uhhhhhhh, ted already did the damn yankees/poison tour. in fact, when I saw them in Cincy, although billed as a co-headlining tour, DY opened and played about an hour and Poison played about an hour and a half.