Merchandising Merchandising!!

[gr8dane]

The facts:

DDY produced every Styx album
8 top 10 singles, 7 were written and sung by DDY
Tommy's mist well known song was radically changed by DDY

Fact:

DDY has said that the success of Styx was due to the collaboration and influences on each of them that made Styx successful. He has never wavered from that statement. This is coming from a guy who lived and breathed it. So I don't know how you expect people to believe anything different.

Fact:

DDY is using material he did not write as a member of Styx. So by your definition of stealing, he is doing the very same thing.

Guess toph is not a 'true' Styx fan,since he thinks Dennis was everything Styx,though Dennis says other wise.

[Boomchild]

Guess toph is not a 'true' Styx fan,since he thinks Dennis was everything Styx,though Dennis says other wise.

The term "true Styx fan" is subjective. Toph's responses seem to suggest that he believes the other members of Styx (i.e. JY and TS) didn't contribute anything to the success of the band.

[Monker]

Guess toph is not a 'true' Styx fan,since he thinks Dennis was everything Styx,though Dennis says other wise.

The term "true Styx fan" is subjective. Toph's responses seem to suggest that he believes the other members of Styx (i.e. JY and TS) didn't contribute anything to the success of the band.

Toph is a Dennis fan, not a Styx fan. His replies are stating that Styx was his solo band and the rest of the members were just side men backing him up while he did all the work.

[Boomchild]

Toph is a Dennis fan, not a Styx fan. His replies are stating that Styx was his solo band and the rest of the members were just side men backing him up while he did all the work.

Says "The Great and Powerful Monker".

[Everett]

This argument is gold

[gr8dane]

This argument is gold

Yep.See merchandising is a good thing.

[Boomchild]

This argument is gold

Yep.See merchandising is a good thing.

Hey, if this benefits the band then I want my cut!

[Monker]

Toph is a Dennis fan, not a Styx fan. His replies are stating that Styx was his solo band and the rest of the members were just side men backing him up while he did all the work.

Says "The Great and Powerful Monker".

A dream, to some. A NIGHTMARE TO OTHERS!

[gr8dane]

Oh come now. You don't have to be "off the road" to post things to your website and FB page. Isn't most of that stuff regulated to their management\PR people anyway? Look back to the reunion. TS was posting and communicating all the time from the road.

My God that was so long ago. Back then I was trading Email with Tommy and got him to sign up to the Styx mailing list. It was a different time with different attitudes both in the band, and among the fans. Back then there were not creepy online stalkers who go about twisting everything the band does into something they can whine and bitch about....and I seriously believe THAT is the reason why Tommy has mostly backed off from posting so much on the internet...people like Toph, and Froy, they make it seem very under appreciated and not worth the time and effort.

In addition, there is no major effort to record an album and release it. Everybody know that. There is no potential release date. They are just doing it in their off time, like a side project. There is no reason to announce it on their website, and I don't expect them to until there are formal plans to release an album.

The only people who give a damn about "merchandising" are people who want to bitch about it. Nobody else cares because it is such an insignificant thing. The bands focus is on touring...that's what they care most about...and it's what the fans care most about, too. All you critics are the people who care about the other things.

Nope, the band is focusing on milking a catalog, 85% of which they neither wrote nor sang nor conceptualized....Sorry, but its true. Styx is guilty of stealing.

Credit where credit is due.Amazing that with only 15% input,Tommy and JY helped propel Styx album sales into platinum status.
Yet with 100% credit to Dennis on his solo albums, sales went nowhere compared.
Well done Tommy and JY.

[Boomchild]

Yet with 100% credit to Dennis on his solo albums, sales went nowhere compared.
Well done Tommy and JY.

Neither did the others solo efforts. Especially, JY's. I even wonder if his solo albums sold more then 5000 copies combined. None of them had success as a solo artist that they had collectively. They all are well aware of that. What's funny is some people will try to discount DDY's contributions to the band in terms of it's success and at the same time attempt to pin all of the weaknesses and pitfalls totally on DDY's shoulders. That simply is a false picture.

[yogi]

i absolutely LOVED City Slicker and the JY group album. I thought they were both fantastic.

[Monker]

Yet with 100% credit to Dennis on his solo albums, sales went nowhere compared.
Well done Tommy and JY.

Neither did the others solo efforts.

So what? Nobody is claiming that any of "the others" wrote all of Styx songs, developed their sound, produced all of the albums, managed the band, and on and on and on.

What's funny is some people will try to discount DDY's contributions to the band in terms of it's success and at the same time attempt to pin all of the weaknesses and pitfalls totally on DDY's shoulders. That simply is a false picture.

I have always argued this in the same way I would Steve Perry in Journey. It was the group, the combination of all of the talents and how they came together, that made the band successful. Even the early days with JC and Wooden Nickle...that gave them experience to both develop the sound they wanted and experience in the industry itself. Yes, Dennis had a large impact on the sound and success of Styx. But, to say he deserves the lion's share of the credit for everything the band became takes away from the credit the rest of the band deserves. And, the FACT is when he did take complete control for Kilroy, the band fell apart and disbanded for 10yrs under his dictatorship...and left such a taste in their mouth that the rest of the band could never get rid of it, and, IMO, is a large part of the reason why BNW turned out the way it did and why he was fired.

[Boomchild]

So what? Nobody is claiming that any of "the others" wrote all of Styx songs, developed their sound, produced all of the albums, managed the band, and on and on and on.

The so what is because someone was commenting that one of the members solo efforts was not as successful as the group efforts. It's really a moot point since none of them did as well on their own.

And, the FACT is when he did take complete control for Kilroy, the band fell apart and disbanded for 10yrs under his dictatorship...and left such a taste in their mouth that the rest of the band could never get rid of it, and, IMO, is a large part of the reason why BNW turned out the way it did and why he was fired.

Sorry but unless you were directly involved and there at the time you can't just make a blanket statement that this is all FACT or that all the FACTS surrounding the subject are publicly known. There there is really no point rehashing it because it will not change anyone's belief, viewpoint or opinion on what transpired.

[Monker]

So what? Nobody is claiming that any of "the others" wrote all of Styx songs, developed their sound, produced all of the albums, managed the band, and on and on and on.

The so what is because someone was commenting that one of the members solo efforts was not as successful as the group efforts. It's really a moot point since none of them did as well on their own.

This was in direct response to Toph giving %85 of the credit to Dennis. If he was such a HUGE factor in the success of Styx and the others were not needed then his solo album should have had the same success, or more since you did not have Tommy and JY complaining about ballads and what singles were released.

The bottom line is Dennis alone did not make Styx a success...and the "success" of his solo albums prove that.

The solo careers of the rest of the band are irrelevant because nobody is claiming Tommy or JY had 85% share of the success, or whatever.

And, again, this is the same argument I make for Steve Perry in Journey.

And, the FACT is when he did take complete control for Kilroy, the band fell apart and disbanded for 10yrs under his dictatorship...and left such a taste in their mouth that the rest of the band could never get rid of it, and, IMO, is a large part of the reason why BNW turned out the way it did and why he was fired.

Sorry but unless you were directly involved and there at the time you can't just make a blanket statement that this is all FACT or that all the FACTS surrounding the subject are publicly known. There there is really no point rehashing it because it will not change anyone's belief, viewpoint or opinion on what transpired.

I believe I divided fact from my opinion fairly well in that statement. So, unless you are arguing that Dennis did not take control for Kilroy, then I really don't know what you are talking about. You must be eating too much Dr. Righteous fried chicken.

[Boomchild]

This was in direct response to Toph giving %85 of the credit to Dennis. If he was such a HUGE factor in the success of Styx and the others were not needed then his solo album should have had the same success, or more since you did not have Tommy and JY complaining about ballads and what singles were released.

The bottom line is Dennis alone did not make Styx a success...and the "success" of his solo albums prove that.

The solo careers of the rest of the band are irrelevant because nobody is claiming Tommy or JY had 85% share of the success, or whatever.

And, again, this is the same argument I make for Steve Perry in Journey.

The point is that the performance of their solo projects really has no bearing on what percentage of their involvement in Styx contributed to Styx's success.

[Toph]

Guess toph is not a 'true' Styx fan,since he thinks Dennis was everything Styx,though Dennis says other wise.

The term "true Styx fan" is subjective. Toph's responses seem to suggest that he believes the other members of Styx (i.e. JY and TS) didn't contribute anything to the success of the band.

Toph is a Dennis fan, not a Styx fan. His replies are stating that Styx was his solo band and the rest of the members were just side men backing him up while he did all the work.

And fuckboy is a Tommy and JY fan and hates Dennis.

[gr8dane]

Do I hear 16% for Tommy and JY ?

[Monker]

And fuckboy is a Tommy and JY fan and hates Dennis.

Who are you talking about now? It can't be me since I have said OHYFN is one of the best of all of Styx solo projects, and the best offered by Dennis, and I have see him in concert. I'd see him again if he played something other than a rib fest.

Or, maybe you're just lying again, since you seem to be in that habit.

[Monker]

This was in direct response to Toph giving %85 of the credit to Dennis. If he was such a HUGE factor in the success of Styx and the others were not needed then his solo album should have had the same success, or more since you did not have Tommy and JY complaining about ballads and what singles were released.

The bottom line is Dennis alone did not make Styx a success...and the "success" of his solo albums prove that.

The solo careers of the rest of the band are irrelevant because nobody is claiming Tommy or JY had 85% share of the success, or whatever.

And, again, this is the same argument I make for Steve Perry in Journey.

The point is that the performance of their solo projects really has no bearing on what percentage of their involvement in Styx contributed to Styx's success.

It does when someone is claiming that Dennis did almost all of the work and the rest of the band did nothing. If that is the case, then Styx is equivalent to a solo project, and vice versa. But, as we both know, they are not...therefore, stating that Dennis had so much influence is just not true.

And, as I said, the same goes with Steve Perry in Journey.

[Toph]

So what? Nobody is claiming that any of "the others" wrote all of Styx songs, developed their sound, produced all of the albums, managed the band, and on and on and on.

The so what is because someone was commenting that one of the members solo efforts was not as successful as the group efforts. It's really a moot point since none of them did as well on their own.

This was in direct response to Toph giving %85 of the credit to Dennis. If he was such a HUGE factor in the success of Styx and the others were not needed then his solo album should have had the same success, or more since you did not have Tommy and JY complaining about ballads and what singles were released.

The bottom line is Dennis alone did not make Styx a success...and the "success" of his solo albums prove that.

The solo careers of the rest of the band are irrelevant because nobody is claiming Tommy or JY had 85% share of the success, or whatever.

And, again, this is the same argument I make for Steve Perry in Journey.

And, the FACT is when he did take complete control for Kilroy, the band fell apart and disbanded for 10yrs under his dictatorship...and left such a taste in their mouth that the rest of the band could never get rid of it, and, IMO, is a large part of the reason why BNW turned out the way it did and why he was fired.

Sorry but unless you were directly involved and there at the time you can't just make a blanket statement that this is all FACT or that all the FACTS surrounding the subject are publicly known. There there is really no point rehashing it because it will not change anyone's belief, viewpoint or opinion on what transpired.

I believe I divided fact from my opinion fairly well in that statement. So, unless you are arguing that Dennis did not take control for Kilroy, then I really don't know what you are talking about. You must be eating too much Dr. Righteous fried chicken.

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the concept of branding.

[Monker]

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the concept of branding.

And, you're just a liar who likes to lie a lot. So, double dumb-ass on you.

[gr8dane]

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the concept of branding.

And, you're just a liar who likes to lie a lot. So, double dumb-ass on you.

I wonder what kind of branding Dennis used for his solo career ?

[Boomchild]

It does when someone is claiming that Dennis did almost all of the work and the rest of the band did nothing. If that is the case, then Styx is equivalent to a solo project, and vice versa. But, as we both know, they are not...therefore, stating that Dennis had so much influence is just not true.

And, as I said, the same goes with Steve Perry in Journey.

No it does not. DDY did very little to promote his solo material. He did zero touring to promote those albums. He himself had said that he wasn't interested in becoming a solo artist.

[Toph]

My God that was so long ago. Back then I was trading Email with Tommy and got him to sign up to the Styx mailing list. It was a different time with different attitudes both in the band, and among the fans. Back then there were not creepy online stalkers who go about twisting everything the band does into something they can whine and bitch about....and I seriously believe THAT is the reason why Tommy has mostly backed off from posting so much on the internet...people like Toph, and Froy, they make it seem very under appreciated and not worth the time and effort.

In addition, there is no major effort to record an album and release it. Everybody know that. There is no potential release date. They are just doing it in their off time, like a side project. There is no reason to announce it on their website, and I don't expect them to until there are formal plans to release an album.

The only people who give a damn about "merchandising" are people who want to bitch about it. Nobody else cares because it is such an insignificant thing. The bands focus is on touring...that's what they care most about...and it's what the fans care most about, too. All you critics are the people who care about the other things.

Nope, the band is focusing on milking a catalog, 85% of which they neither wrote nor sang nor conceptualized....Sorry, but its true. Styx is guilty of stealing.

Credit where credit is due.Amazing that with only 15% input,Tommy and JY helped propel Styx album sales into platinum status.
Yet with 100% credit to Dennis on his solo albums, sales went nowhere compared.
Well done Tommy and JY.

You and monkey boy show your ignorance with statements like this. Its the Styx brand. And who built the Styx brand? Primarily Dennis with some help from Tommy and virtually none from JY.

[Toph]

You're an idiot who doesn't understand the concept of branding.

And, you're just a liar who likes to lie a lot. So, double dumb-ass on you.

Ooh, that's good. You sound like Marco Rubio or Donald Trump.

Asswipe.

[Toph]

It does when someone is claiming that Dennis did almost all of the work and the rest of the band did nothing. If that is the case, then Styx is equivalent to a solo project, and vice versa. But, as we both know, they are not...therefore, stating that Dennis had so much influence is just not true.

And, as I said, the same goes with Steve Perry in Journey.

No it does not. DDY did very little to promote his solo material. He did zero touring to promote those albums. He himself had said that he wasn't interested in becoming a solo artist.

Monkey has no idea about the power of branding. The Styx brand has power. Dennis DeYoung, Tommy Shaw or JY does not. That's the difference here. If DDY was touring under the name Styx and TS and JY were called "James Young and Tommy Shaw," who do you think would have more benefit? To try to compare the individual to the brand is ludicrous. My point is DDY built the brand (or 80% of it) and the others are cashing in on it. That's what is wrong here.

[Toph]

Facts: The building of the Styx brand. Clearly, the bulk of the brand was formed by DDY no matter which way you choose to look at it. It isn't even close.

Breakthrough Single - Lady written and sung by DDY

Studio Albums appearing on - 1972-1991 (the formation of the Styx brand): DDY 12, JY 12, TS 6

Top 10 Singles Song Credits: DDY 7, TS 1, JY 0

Styx Greatest Hits Song Credits: DDY 10, TS 5, JY 1

Uncredited Production Leadership A&M albums: DDY 8, JY 0, TS 0

Total # of Lead Vocals (A&M albums): DDY 35 1/2, TS 20, JY 10, GB 4, JC 1/2

[Boomchild]

You and monkey boy show your ignorance with statements like this. Its the Styx brand. And who built the Styx brand? Primarily Dennis with some help from Tommy and virtually none from JY.

Well then, if that's the case, you also need to inform Dennis that he is ignorant as well. After all, he is the one that has never wavered from his statement that "the success of Styx was due to the contributions and influences of all the members". So are we supposed to believe you or the guy that actually was involved? Be sure to make a post on DDY's Facebook page informing him he is ignorant and his statement is full of shit.

Seriously, you need to stop living in the past and live in the present. No amount of back and forth rehashing with speculations and opinions is going to change history. The reality is that they reached and impasse with each other and could not keep it together. By the looks of things they have moved past those events and got on with their lives and careers. DDY seems very happy with what he has been able to achieve on his own and no longer has to compromise with anyone on the direction he wants to go in. Your unabashed loyalty to DDY has become sickening.

[Monker]

It does when someone is claiming that Dennis did almost all of the work and the rest of the band did nothing. If that is the case, then Styx is equivalent to a solo project, and vice versa. But, as we both know, they are not...therefore, stating that Dennis had so much influence is just not true.

And, as I said, the same goes with Steve Perry in Journey.

No it does not. DDY did very little to promote his solo material. He did zero touring to promote those albums. He himself had said that he wasn't interested in becoming a solo artist.

This is absolutely NOT TRUE. For his live orchestra album, he toured and he went on PBS to sell it. He pushed that thing for a couple years. He toured for OHYFN, and played some of the songs from it. Even for Desert Moon there was promotion, a video, etc. Hell, Tommy joined DY because Dennis was too busy filming a video to promote Boomchild.

The bottom line is his solo career never took off like Styx. If it had, we'd be having a different conversation. Saying in retrospect that he had no interest in being a solo act is bullshit. If he had no interest in it, then he would not have recorded the albums. His solo career didn't take off because it was mostly mediocre music on mediocre albums that had moderate success - at best. Exactly as every other member of Styx. Dennis was not "special" at all.

If he was this magic bullet , did 80% of all the work, and is THE reason Styx was successful, as Toph foolishly claims, then he should have been able to do the same with his solo career, then and now. It never happened. It didn't happen because he doesn't have the level of talent surrounding him that he did in Styx. It's one thing to write a great song but it's another thing to be able to take it to a band and together raise it to a higher level. You can say the same about Tommy and JY's songs and getting Dennis' input. That is how bands work...and he doesn't have that solo, at least not at the same level, as he did in Styx.

[Monker]

Facts: The building of the Styx brand. Clearly, the bulk of the brand was formed by DDY no matter which way you choose to look at it. It isn't even close.

Breakthrough Single - Lady written and sung by DDY

Studio Albums appearing on - 1972-1991 (the formation of the Styx brand): DDY 12, JY 12, TS 6

Top 10 Singles Song Credits: DDY 7, TS 1, JY 0

Styx Greatest Hits Song Credits: DDY 10, TS 5, JY 1

Uncredited Production Leadership A&M albums: DDY 8, JY 0, TS 0

Total # of Lead Vocals (A&M albums): DDY 35 1/2, TS 20, JY 10, GB 4, JC 1/2

This is the same bullshit argument that Perry fans make, pointing to writing credits and who is named first, and all kinds of other crap, trying to prove that he had more influence in the band than anybody else. You blow your own argument when you list "uncredited production leadership". In a band situation like Styx many, many things are uncredited. Influences happen that nobody knows about outside of the band.

You are a bullshitter and a liar when you come on here making these fantastical claims, as if typing up an emphatic list of crap makes your lies more true...it doesn't.

"Branding" shouldn't even be a member's job, but that of the manager. It's also not writing credits or who sang how many songs. You are so ridiculous, it's pathetic.

I doubt you have the ability to stop being this defender of all things Dennis and just talk about Styx as a band. To you, talking about Styx is really talking about Dennis, because you have this illusion that they are the same thing.