They're Eating The Dogs Presidential Thread

[The_Noble_Cause]

Those that voted for Trump, or showed him support after being elected, and increasingly starting to drop their support. He hasn't kept ANY of his major promises (to them). he hasn't brought back manufacturing or coal jobs. He has proven himself to be just as corrupt - or even more so - than any other career politician. His inexperience has been a liablility - not an asset. Finally, he has lied so often that if you support him, you are supporting a person who will lie about anything from the size of his baby hands to the size of his crowds

And you base this dwindling support on what? The same polls that predicted that Ossoff would win last night? You don't have a fucking clue where America is at right now. As Steve Bannon would say, you should really just keep your mouth shut.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Way to Spin things. You can refer to other political things, but it ends being a party war. I, or Monker mentions something about TRUMP, and your first go to is, 'but Hillary...', or 'but Obama...'

All I'm saying...argue the facts.

What did I spin? You are telling posters not to mention any past presidents and then you say Trump is the worst present in your lifetime. So you are clearly comparing him to past presidents. The fact is that presidential politics do not exist in a vacuum. Deal with it.

[S2M]

Way to Spin things. You can refer to other political things, but it ends being a party war. I, or Monker mentions something about TRUMP, and your first go to is, 'but Hillary...', or 'but Obama...'

All I'm saying...argue the facts.

What did I spin? You are telling posters not to mention any past presidents and then you say Trump is the worst present in your lifetime. So you are clearly comparing him to past presidents. The fact is that presidential politics do not exist in a vacuum. Deal with it.

I guess I have to dumb it down for you.

When Trump does something wrong, or is being accused of something that he DID do...whether it's a social faux pas, inadequacy, or what not...something that, deep down you know is wrong - but feel the need to defend publicly...instead of saying 'Where was all this criticism when Obama, or Hilbag did the same thing', or such and such, you seem more concerned with making it EVEN, party-wise, than actually dealing with whatever issue it is.

Which is why Monker and I always accuse you of putting party over country.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I guess I have to dumb it down for you.

When Trump does something wrong, or is being accused of something that he DID do...whether it's a social faux pas, inadequacy, or what not...something that, deep down you know is wrong - but feel the need to defend publicly...instead of saying 'Where was all this criticism when Obama, or Hilbag did the same thing', or such and such, you seem more concerned with making it EVEN, party-wise, than actually dealing with whatever issue it is.

Which is why Monker and I always accuse you of putting party over country.

You and Monker make a cute couple. The fact that you have to play the treason card and question Trump voters loyalty to our country says a lot about how desperate you are. Also, Trump is the first time I have voted Republican in pretty much forever. You don't know a damn thing about my politics. And there are millions of liberals like me that voted for Trump and we will never vote Democrat again. So kiss my ass.

Regarding the mentioning of other presidential figures.... without context nothing has meaning. It's like debating World War II without mentioning the Versailles treaty. I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole by ignorant people like you claiming that the Russian collusion "scandal" is unheard of. Really? How about Nixon communicating with South Vietnam? How about Reagan with Iran? Like I said everything is contextual. Invoking Obama or Hillary or whoever is not deflecting - it's clarifying.

[Monker]

And how many times did Obama blame his predecessor for inheriting the recession? And how many times did you complain about him doing that?

I'd be happy to discuss that in the Obama thread.

If establishment democratic leadership is the solution to Trump,

No, impeachment is the solution to Trump. Or, his cabnet saying he is unfit for office, and kicking him out.

then you should be happy to discuss these past leaders. Seems you are embarrassed or something.

I have no reason to be emarrassed of a party I have never been a member of.

If you TRULY wanted to discuss these things you would be willing to post them to a thread where they would be on topic.

Perhaps you are too embarrassed to discuss the real issues a President you voted for and continue to advocate for, and would rather everybody be distracted by discussing non-issues of five years ago, or longer.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'd be happy to discuss that in the Obama thread.

Funny, in the DC movie thread u keep mentioning Marvel and other non-DC films. Marvel should be discussed in the Marvel thread, right? Please be consistent.

No, impeachment is the solution to Trump. Or, his cabnet saying he is unfit for office, and kicking him out.

Maxine Waters is that you? Sounds like your fright wig is glued on too tight.

I have no reason to be emarrassed of a party I have never been a member of.

Sorry. I just don't believe you. Your track record ("Hillary is allowed to use a private server!") speaks for itself.

Perhaps you are too embarrassed to discuss the real issues a President you voted for and continue to advocate for, and would rather everybody be distracted by discussing non-issues of five years ago, or longer.

Proud of my president and my country. Willing to debate anything at anytime. I apologize in advance if I reference history when replying. Unlike reactionary libtards, I know my shit.

[Monker]

Funny, in the DC movie thread u keep mentioning Marvel and other non-DC films. Marvel should be discussed in the Marvel thread, right? Please be consistent.

I would absolutely make that argument IF V and YJ avoided talking about DC and answered every debatable post I made with insults towards Marvel. But, they don't. If I post that BvS and SS are the two worst CBM's ever created and everything Marvel has made is better, they could (and possibly would) argue back and be completely on topic and talk only about DC.

And, in case you didn't notice, I do the same in the Marvel thread and talk about DC. And, V and YJ post about Marvel there, too.

So, regardless of what you say there isn't a problem with anybody avoiding the topic of the thread - as there is here.

And, it's not just you. FF and (especially) KC consistently avoid talking about Trump and rely on you to do it for them.

No, impeachment is the solution to Trump. Or, his cabnet saying he is unfit for office, and kicking him out.

Maxine Waters is that you? Sounds like your fright wig is glued on too tight.

And, this is actually the other way you avoid discussion. I don't care about a Democrat being President. I simply feel Trump is bad for the country and needs to be removed. But, instead of arguing that, you do your passive aggressive dance with your ad-hominem insult which I assume are half-witted attempts at some type of humor.

Avoidence - that is what that is.

Proud of my president and my country.

Obviously, one of those is a lie.

If you are proud of "Make America Great Again", then by definition, you are not proud of your country. And, if you were proud of your country, it would not have to be made "great again", it would already be great.

And, that is the problem with the sales pitch Trump made. It doesn't stand the test of time. We had a great economy in January 2017. We had a leadership role in the world in January 2017. We were a leader in advocating LGBT rights. We were leading the world in combating global warming. In all of those categories we are moving away from leading and being great to being something much less.

As I said before, Trump's version of a "great" America is America as it was in 1910. Isolated from the world. Fewer rights for many of societies minorities. An experiment in Democracy - but not a world leader in much of anything else.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I would absolutely make that argument IF V and YJ avoided talking about DC and answered every debatable post I made with insults towards Marvel. But, they don't. If I post that BvS and SS are the two worst CBM's ever created and everything Marvel has made is better, they could (and possibly would) argue back and be completely on topic and talk only about DC.

And, in case you didn't notice, I do the same in the Marvel thread and talk about DC. And, V and YJ post about Marvel there, too.

So, regardless of what you say there isn't a problem with anybody avoiding the topic of the thread - as there is here.

I don't notice this problem that you are talking about. FactFinder and KC do talk about Trump. So do I. You just don't like the answers we give you. You want us to swear "Death to America!" like your fellow unhinged Resistance members. Pass.

And, this is actually the other way you avoid discussion. I don't care about a Democrat being President. I simply feel Trump is bad for the country and needs to be removed. But, instead of arguing that, you do your passive aggressive dance with your ad-hominem insult which I assume are half-witted attempts at some type of humor.

Rooting for a coup of a democratically-elected president is pretty disgusting to be honest. I always wanted the best for Presidents I may have disagreed with, including George W Bush. Trump's honeymoon period with the opposition party was non-existent. Worse than Obama was treated.

Obviously, one of those is a lie.

If you are proud of "Make America Great Again", then by definition, you are not proud of your country. And, if you were proud of your country, it would not have to be made "great again", it would already be great.

Many presidents throughout history have run as change agents. Obama and Clinton both ran on change. Reagan too. I guess you are saying everybody who voted for them was not proud of their country? Wanting to improve your country is a patriotic calling.

And, that is the problem with the sales pitch Trump made. It doesn't stand the test of time. We had a great economy in January 2017. We had a leadership role in the world in January 2017. We were a leader in advocating LGBT rights. We were leading the world in combating global warming. In all of those categories we are moving away from leading and being great to being something much less.

And here we go again....u say don't mention past presidents and now you are doing precisely that. If this rose-colored revisionist take was remotely true, Hillary would have won in a landslide. LGBT rights...global warming..... this is all flowery horseshit that has no practical immediate consequence to the working class. And tbh, we were not leaders in LGBT rights at all. We were Johnny come latelys. Tell me about things that truly matter. Like a country's safety net for its elderly. Or literacy rates. Or child mortality.

[JBlake]

Breaking News @BreakingNLive

BREAKING: Reports of stabbings at Oval sub station in central London with casulties.
DEVELOPING

Remember folks, the Mayor of London told the citizens that stuff like this is "just part of their everyday lives". So with that in mind, move along, there's nothing to see here.

This is shaking out as either bad reporting or fake news, no other outlets have covered it.

Kind of ironic that this suspect fake news of a stabbing was actually circulating before the stabbing that actually did occur at the airport in the US a day or so later. Just wondering if this is simply coincidental or perhaps a fake news flash intended to signal for an attack(s) elsewhere.

[Boomchild]

[brywool]

Brought to you by the "Show Me Your Birth Certificate, Michele had Naked Arms, Pizza Sex Ring" Party.

[Memorex]

The special prosecutor investigations should be treated like our regular court system, not only to control costs but so that the government can do it's job and not be distracted by wild goose chases. At some point (I feel a point that has already passed), the Special Prosecutor should present to the American people evidence that a crime has likely been committed and that a conviction is likely to occur. A kind of evidentiary hearing. Maybe even congress votes after that to continue or not, but at least the American people can weigh in and determine if what is happening is justified and hold those accountable if it is not.

If you look at this Russia thing. I've known from day one it was just a bunch of junk. I'd have felt that whether it was Democrat or Republican. For someone like me that is already irritated at the waste of government spending, it's just a bunch more bullshit. But in this case, you have a bunch of people acting political and not professional. Comey leaking information as an example. Dude was an FBI Director and he's leaking info in order to get a special prosecutor against the president and I'm supposed to believe these people are all acting professional? Hardly.

I cannot stand how much this investigation is costing and how distracting it is when every single person in this country, even those that do not want to admit it, knows that Trump did not in any way collude with Russia. We've been told that from all sides over and over and yet things continue.

The Democrats are not only making themselves look like they can't accept the results of a free and fair election, they are destroying themselves from within. And by doing so, they are failing to rise to the level of debate that is healthy for a country.

No one should want the destruction of another person. It's petty and silly. Running this country should not be a blood sport.

[Memorex]

Brought to you by the "Show Me Your Birth Certificate, Michele had Naked Arms, Pizza Sex Ring" Party.

I think The bitch certificate thing went on too long, but wow did it take a long time to get that birth certificate out. Obama kind of made his own bed on that one. If it were me, I would have had it out in about an hour, cause why not? But months and months and heated pressure just to release a birth certificate. So odd.

Sex rings. Do you somehow live in some world where you don't think people of power participate in such things. Look how many arrests have gone down in just the last few months because Sessions decided to go after them. You think All of Clinton's plane rides to Pedo island were to simply relax? Come on dude, don't be so naive. I am not saying it's all real. I'm not saying it's every person they mention. But Child porn, sex trafficking, etc. exist. It absolutely exists. And it's not just Bob and the local grocery store. It's people in power. Do you deny that?

[S2M]

Assuming this Russia thing is 100% false, and I mean ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. Democrats are going to rue the decision to run with it. What happens when Trump actually does something wrong. You get enough of these witch hunt examples, and when you do have a legitimate one - it's going to be the boy who cried wolf.

Hannity said something in that 10-minute clip KFC posted...but I'm going to modify it. He said that the Dems have nothing to offer the american people. Well....neither do the republicans. Running a country is ALL about psychology. Tendencies...a government's main reason for existing is because some folks decided long ago that the common person is incapable of making important decisions for themselves. 'We' are children in Washington's eyes. Just a means to an end. They use us to rise to a position where they can better THEIR position. Sure, they pass an occasional law every now and then...kind of like there is a major drug bust every so often - to appear like there is actually a war on drugs....or catch a high ranking member of Al Queda once in a blue moon to make it look like the occupation is actually working...but in all these cases, their EXISTENCE is the only thing that matters. Politicians care only about being elected. That's their goal...once they're in - they're in.

Bush knew they were no WMDs over there...and he knew that he only had to get over there, by any means necessary, and he was in like Flynn.

Make no mistake...both parties are duplicitous in their scheming, and conniving. I'm just trying to survive until it's my time to go, and make sure my boys grow up to be, I hope, upstanding, productive members of society; whatever society ends up coming out of all this hate, and derision. We attack each other in these threads, but I think overall - we are all just trying to make sense of the world as it today. We all come from different backgrounds, and we see the political world through many 'lenses': parents, employees, employers, male, female, straight, gay...etc. It's not easy. But when you strip everything away, we are all humans...just trying to survive in a very complicated landscape. We're not quite LBJ's 'Great Society'

[slucero]

LBJ's "Great Society" was supposed to eliminate poverty and racial injustice.

All it did was nothing.

Contrary to what some believe, the root problem is not government, or throwing money at social programs. It is people and morality.



Our society has lost the honor and integrity of our fore fathers... and getting it back isn't likely to happen, as that is anathema to what "progressives" want, which is control.

[Monker]

Amazing how liberals forget it was Hillary Clintons group that started that Birth Certificate bullshit.

Wrong. It was mentioned by a staffer but struck down because Clinton wanted nothing to do with it. And, the staffer was fired for leaking it to the press. You are repeating an alt-right fake news article that was lying.

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-s ... -movement/

This was also talked about on CNN when Trump made the claim a few months ago. The manager of the Iowa campaign was interviewed and told the exact story as Snopes does above...except she was the one who did the firing.

Trump and Republicans like you own this one.

[Monker]

bry, Ben Carson is a Yale Grad and a U of Mich Med School Grad, neurosurgeon, author and had a made for TV Movie made about his life story called "Gifted Hands". I'm not sure where "Fool" fits in there.

That part starts when he started making public debates to become the Republican nominee for President. The guy acted completely clueless at times.

[Monker]

Brought to you by the "Show Me Your Birth Certificate, Michele had Naked Arms, Pizza Sex Ring" Party.

I think The bitch certificate thing went on too long, but wow did it take a long time to get that birth certificate out. Obama kind of made his own bed on that one. If it were me, I would have had it out in about an hour, cause why not? But months and months and heated pressure just to release a birth certificate. So odd.

You would have released your short form "Certificate of Live Birth" that you either have in your safe, or obtained a new copy from the courthouse. That is what ANYBODY on this forum would have done. It is accepted proof of identification to enter a new job, or to obtain a passport, etc. It is what Obama released in 2008. And, that is all he should have had to release. Therefore, all of the bullshit where people were saying "I have to do ______ when I start a new job. The President should have to do the same..." Well, HE DID.

The birther movement pushed for him to release the "long form" birth certificate. This is normally NOT released to the public because it contains confidential patient information. Doctor's notes, for example. So, Hawaii had to make a special case out of it and essentially have a Presidential order to release the long form certificate in 2011.

And, of course the birther movement said it was fake and blah, blah, blah.

Sex rings. Do you somehow live in some world where you don't think people of power participate in such things.

Maybe they do. But, if you are going to accuse two former Presidents and others of it, you had better have some extraordinary proof. There wasn't any....TOTAL FAKE NEWS.

You think All of Clinton's plane rides to Pedo island were to simply relax? Come on dude, don't be so naive. I am not saying it's all real. I'm not saying it's every person they mention. But Child porn, sex trafficking, etc. exist. It absolutely exists. And it's not just Bob and the local grocery store. It's people in power. Do you deny that?

Yeah, you are just guessing and feeding into rumors and conspiracy theories. That isn't helpful, unless you have some cable show that you need content for and maybe have low enough ratings that you would risk being sued.

[Monker]

Bush knew they were no WMDs over there...and he knew that he only had to get over there, by any means necessary, and he was in like Flynn.

W was rattling his sabres even during the debates...maybe even the Republican debates. So, he was ready to send in troops on day one of his Presidency....he just needed to justify it. However, I think he did believe Cheney and Rumsfeld and the "intelligence" they had interpreted. Regardless, W had his excuse and he went in.

[Memorex]

Yeah, you are just guessing and feeding into rumors and conspiracy theories. That isn't helpful, unless you have some cable show that you need content for and maybe have low enough ratings that you would risk being sued.

I haven't heard anything about Obama involved, but I think Clinton certainly was involved. Like I said, what other reason would he have had to fly to Pedo island so many times. And that's just a factual thing that he went and the dude he went with ran that island in a disgusting way. The dude is a rapist, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume he would head out on that kind of trip.

[Monker]

[quote="Memorex"]
If you look at this Russia thing. I've known from day one it was just a bunch of junk. [/quote[

The problem is that is isn't "a bunch of junk". Everytime someone goes in as skeptical and the NSA shows them the classified evidence, they come out saying "There is no doubt that the election was hacked and Putin ordered it."

THAT is the truth. This is not the same as Iraq WMD.

Then you have Trump wanting to interfere with the investigation....and you really have to ask yourself "why?"

[Monker]

Yeah, you are just guessing and feeding into rumors and conspiracy theories. That isn't helpful, unless you have some cable show that you need content for and maybe have low enough ratings that you would risk being sued.

I haven't heard anything about Obama involved, but I think Clinton certainly was involved. Like I said, what other reason would he have had to fly to Pedo island so many times. And that's just a factual thing that he went and the dude he went with ran that island in a disgusting way. The dude is a rapist, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume he would head out on that kind of trip.

Yes, it is a stretch. You are accusing a former President of statutory rape...and all you can do is say "what else would he be doing?" That's not evidence of anything. You are just guessing.

If Bill Cosby can end in a mistrial, and Trump be allowed to sit in the oval office after describing himself sexually assaulting women, what you are saying above is less than nothing.

[Memorex]

Yeah, you are just guessing and feeding into rumors and conspiracy theories. That isn't helpful, unless you have some cable show that you need content for and maybe have low enough ratings that you would risk being sued.

I haven't heard anything about Obama involved, but I think Clinton certainly was involved. Like I said, what other reason would he have had to fly to Pedo island so many times. And that's just a factual thing that he went and the dude he went with ran that island in a disgusting way. The dude is a rapist, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume he would head out on that kind of trip.

Yes, it is a stretch. You are accusing a former President of statutory rape...and all you can do is say "what else would he be doing?" That's not evidence of anything. You are just guessing.

If Bill Cosby can end in a mistrial, and Trump be allowed to sit in the oval office after describing himself sexually assaulting women, what you are saying above is less than nothing.

Yea - I'm sure Cosby is just an innocent man caught up by the system.

[Memorex]

If you look at this Russia thing. I've known from day one it was just a bunch of junk. [/quote[

The problem is that is isn't "a bunch of junk". Everytime someone goes in as skeptical and the NSA shows them the classified evidence, they come out saying "There is no doubt that the election was hacked and Putin ordered it."

THAT is the truth. This is not the same as Iraq WMD.

Then you have Trump wanting to interfere with the investigation....and you really have to ask yourself "why?"

I am not saying Russia didn't have a hand in things. I'm saying the collusion is a crap charge and there has never been anything to say otherwise. All I am saying is if there is evidence of Trump team collusion, present what's there and then either continue if the evidence is sufficient or move on. It's not right to spend this much money and have multiple investigations going on if it's not valid. Whoever hacked things, Russia or others, may have gotten a little more sophisticated in their attempts but it's been happening for many election cycles. Why not the fever during 2012? 2008? This is a Trump thing and only a Trump thing. The establishment and media hates him and they are doing all they can to bring him down. That's the only difference here between elections.

As far as Podesta's emails, the dude was an idiot giving his password out right to the hackers. If that's the sophistication we are so worried about, well shit, we will never have a fair election again.

Trump is not interfering with the election anymore than a sane person would. I actually am annoyed at his restraint. Enough already. All he said was hey, tell the people I am not under investigation so we can move forward. Pretty normal request. And saying he hoped the investigation would end for Flynn cause he was a good guy. Wow, what a horrible crime. I suppose we should spends billions instead of millions on this. Let's hang him.

Also, he was dealing with Comey. Dude strikes me as sort of a weasel, especially after he admitted leaking info to a newspaper. If your Trump and it seems like all of Washington is trying to get rid of you, I seriously doubt you would trust very many people around you. Hell, there was story after story during Obama's term regarding how small his circle was and how it grew smaller and smaller as years went on. Washington is a cesspool.

[Monker]

If you look at this Russia thing. I've known from day one it was just a bunch of junk. [/quote[

The problem is that is isn't "a bunch of junk". Everytime someone goes in as skeptical and the NSA shows them the classified evidence, they come out saying "There is no doubt that the election was hacked and Putin ordered it."

THAT is the truth. This is not the same as Iraq WMD.

Then you have Trump wanting to interfere with the investigation....and you really have to ask yourself "why?"

The problem with your bullshit is, you can't prove any of it.[/'quote]

I don't have to, Mueller does. He'll be able to use classified info as proof. He won't prove it to me or you, but to the congressional committees who can view the info. THAT is what matters, and what you are ignoring.

Because, none of it is true.

Yes, it is true. You are simply in denial.

You were HAD by your beloved Main Stream Media. Seems you and Scat2manure brains can't understand that

Oh, please. The MSM has pretty much ignored the election hack in favor of following Trumps Twitter rants. Media has barely mentioned it the past couple months.

Both of you keep it up, and while your at it, please fight to keep Pelosi in office and Speaker Minority.

WTF is a "Speaker Minority"? Fucking moron.

I don't care who the minority leader of the House is.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The problem is that is isn't "a bunch of junk". Everytime someone goes in as skeptical and the NSA shows them the classified evidence, they come out saying "There is no doubt that the election was hacked and Putin ordered it."

Problem is, you're a gullible moron who will blindly lead this country right back into war. Luckily, most Americans won't get fooled again. The Eisenhower administration made the call to overthrow Iran's government in the 1950s. Nixon supported Pincohet's coup. We tried to take out of Chavez...twice. One of many US directed coups. Go tend to your own house first hypocrite!

THAT is the truth. This is not the same as Iraq WMD.

It is exactly the same. I have been on here for months debating the merits of the ODNI report. Have you read it? You never mention it. It blamed Russia Today for programming that wasn't even on the air. Then we have the fact that Crowdstrike walked backed their initial allegations about the severs. The whole thing is an obvious con job. Your defense boils down to this: whatever the government tells me must be the truth.

Then you have Trump wanting to interfere with the investigation....and you really have to ask yourself "why?"

The "investigation" is a soft coup. That is obvious to anyone with half a brain. Trump won't play the establishment game so he must be politically crippled or worse.

[The_Noble_Cause]

WTF is a "Speaker Minority"? Fucking moron.

Tsk tsk Here ya go again being ad hominem. Please be consistent! Can't you debate KC on the facts?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yes, it is a stretch. You are accusing a former President of statutory rape...

No, he's accusing a known rapist of doing more raping.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Wrong. It was mentioned by a staffer but struck down because Clinton wanted nothing to do with it. And, the staffer was fired for leaking it to the press. You are repeating an alt-right fake news article that was lying.

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-s ... -movement/

Funny. Obama's campaign chair, David Plouffe, disagreed:

“On the very day that Senator Clinton is giving a speech about restoring respect for America in the world, her campaign has engaged in the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we’ve seen from either party in this election. This is part of a disturbing pattern that led her county chairs to resign in Iowa, her campaign chairman to resign in New Hampshire, and it’s exactly the kind of divisive politics that turns away Americans of all parties and diminishes respect for America in the world,"

Hillary Campaign Strategist began laying the dog whistles early on:

"I cannot imagine America electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values.” Penn proposed targeting Obama’s lack of American roots."

Trump and Republicans like you own this one.

I'm a life long liberal Democrat and you are full of shit. Anyone who read the Wikileaks emails (and you admit you haven't) can read for themselves the Hillary campaign team discussing ways to smear Sanders. Her DNC buddies even wanted to bring up his "Jewish heritage." And anyone who knows the Clintons (sister souljah moment, super predators quote etc.) knows they are not above using race as a wedge issue.

[The_Noble_Cause]

W was rattling his sabres even during the debates...maybe even the Republican debates. So, he was ready to send in troops on day one of his Presidency....he just needed to justify it. However, I think he did believe Cheney and Rumsfeld and the "intelligence" they had interpreted. Regardless, W had his excuse and he went in.

Wow..more bullshit. Bush ran on a platform of "no nation building" and criticized Gore for being interventionist. This is what made his war fever all the more of a jarring betrayal. All you do is lie. Get the fuck out of here.