The Narrative is Crushed

[Toph]

Watch this and tell me this is a band that hates each other. This is during 1981 - the height of the Paradise Theater tour - post "Babe." Again, shows that TS and JY are full of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu90L-O2pCY

[Archetype]

Didn't realize it was still 1981. You seem to have an inability to let go of the distant past. There are medical professionals who can help you.

[Cassie May]

For God's sake, Toph----

LET IT GO!!!!!!!

[Archetype]

For God's sake, Toph----

LET IT GO!!!!!!!

Some people buy fast cars or go on lavish vacations when midlife crisis strikes. Toph spams the Styx board hoping it will make Dennis DeYoung come back. Tomato tomahto.

[gr8dane]

Those were the days.Before Dennis turned into an unbearable prick,and got himself fired.

[Toph]

Those were the days.Before Dennis turned into an unbearable prick,and got himself fired.

Wait, I thought that was Cornerstone? And Babe. You know that song that made Cokehead do so much coke that he almost killed himself?

[Toph]

Those were the days.Before Dennis turned into an unbearable prick,and got himself fired.

People don't just turn into pricks, Gr8dane. For example, I'm sure you've been one since the day you were born.

[Archetype]

Those were the days.Before Dennis turned into an unbearable prick,and got himself fired.

People don't just turn into pricks, Gr8dane. For example, I'm sure you've been one since the day you were born.

If there's one person on this board who isn't qualified to comment on human nature...

[Pacfanweb]

You could get a video of Van Halen from the same year and come to the conclusion that they loved each other, but we now know that wasn't even remotely the case.

Doesn't mean they still didn't have some great times together, though.

Same with Styx.

[Monker]

Those were the days.Before Dennis turned into an unbearable prick,and got himself fired.

People don't just turn into pricks, Gr8dane. For example, I'm sure you've been one since the day you were born.

You're right. Dennis was an asshole and a prick the entire time he was with Styx. There was a story posted here where they performed a concert back in the early days. During the concert DDY kept giving JC weird looks. After he told JC he played and sounded like shit. That was the last concert JC ever performed with Styx.

So, yeah, during Cornerstone with all the BS and control issues with Dennis, they tried to fire him. He begged them not to, he came back and doubled down on his control during PT.

So, why they fuck would they bring this controlling, manipulating, egomaniac, narcissist, "prick" (as you admitted) back into the band - WHEN THEY ARE ALREADY HAPPY WITH HOW IT IS NOW? I wouldn't trust Dennis even for ONE CONCERT. He is DESPERATE to get back into Styx because he LOST his control over the band...and he can't stand it as they make decisions on their own without ANY of his input.

And, BTW, people point to his final concert with Styx...that charity concert for public television, or whatever it was. Don't they all look happy? Who gives a damn - they WERE NOT HAPPY....not in 1981, 1984, or 1999.

But, STYX is happy NOW....Dennis should learn to be happy too, before he's dead and can't enjoy it.

[Boomchild]

You're right. Dennis was an asshole and a prick the entire time he was with Styx. There was a story posted here where they performed a concert back in the early days. During the concert DDY kept giving JC weird looks. After he told JC he played and sounded like shit. That was the last concert JC ever performed with Styx.

I believe there is a important point left out of the tale of this event. If I remember correctly, JC was either drunk or high at the time. Which led to his poor playing. If that is the case, then I would say DDY's reaction seems justifiable. This is not to say that at other times DDY wasn't being a prick about things.

[Archetype]

As much as I enjoy Dennis' singing, songwriting and keyboard playing, I don't blame the Styx guys one bit for wanting Lawrence Gowan around. Lawrence seems like such a cool guy to talk to and be around in all of the interviews I've seen of him and my very limited personal interaction with him. Not to mention he's a brilliant keyboardist, vocalist and songwriter himself.

[gr8dane]

Those were the days.Before Dennis turned into an unbearable prick,and got himself fired.

People don't just turn into pricks, Gr8dane. For example, I'm sure you've been one since the day you were born.

Thanks ,That makes Dennis a prick much longer than I thought.
Good ole Dennis

[Monker]

You're right. Dennis was an asshole and a prick the entire time he was with Styx. There was a story posted here where they performed a concert back in the early days. During the concert DDY kept giving JC weird looks. After he told JC he played and sounded like shit. That was the last concert JC ever performed with Styx.

I believe there is a important point left out of the tale of this event. If I remember correctly, JC was either drunk or high at the time. Which led to his poor playing. If that is the case, then I would say DDY's reaction seems justifiable. This is not to say that at other times DDY wasn't being a prick about things.

No, I do not recall it mentioned that he was drunk. What I recall is that Dennis wanted JC out of the band and was particularly hard on him on and off stage. After that incident, JC had enough and quit the band.

There is also a similar story about Brad Dept and Tom Scholz. That Tom would constantly critique Brad about his voice being shit and how bad he sounds in concert.

So, yeah, I can see this crap from Dennis driving JC to drink....and Tommy to drugs...and Brad Delp to suicide.

I know your answer is if they didn't like it, they could quit. Yeah, look at what JC gave up when he DID quit...the very next album the band takes off and they all make millions...a thing he barely had a taste of with those early Styx albums. You are asking these people to give up on a dream...sometimes to give up on it WHILE THEY ARE LIVING IT. Why can't you admit that the people who are being assholes should stop being assholes so the band can get along:? And, Toph, why can't you admit that when the band cuts out the asshole and fires him that they are all a lot happier and better off....and will never want to perform with the asshole again?

[Toph]

As much as I enjoy Dennis' singing, songwriting and keyboard playing, I don't blame the Styx guys one bit for wanting Lawrence Gowan around. Lawrence seems like such a cool guy to talk to and be around in all of the interviews I've seen of him and my very limited personal interaction with him. Not to mention he's a brilliant keyboardist, vocalist and songwriter himself.

Vocalist? You may need to make an appointment with a hearing doctor.

[Toph]

You're right. Dennis was an asshole and a prick the entire time he was with Styx. There was a story posted here where they performed a concert back in the early days. During the concert DDY kept giving JC weird looks. After he told JC he played and sounded like shit. That was the last concert JC ever performed with Styx.

I believe there is a important point left out of the tale of this event. If I remember correctly, JC was either drunk or high at the time. Which led to his poor playing. If that is the case, then I would say DDY's reaction seems justifiable. This is not to say that at other times DDY wasn't being a prick about things.

No, I do not recall it mentioned that he was drunk. What I recall is that Dennis wanted JC out of the band and was particularly hard on him on and off stage. After that incident, JC had enough and quit the band.

There is also a similar story about Brad Dept and Tom Scholz. That Tom would constantly critique Brad about his voice being shit and how bad he sounds in concert.

So, yeah, I can see this crap from Dennis driving JC to drink....and Tommy to drugs...and Brad Delp to suicide.

I know your answer is if they didn't like it, they could quit. Yeah, look at what JC gave up when he DID quit...the very next album the band takes off and they all make millions...a thing he barely had a taste of with those early Styx albums. You are asking these people to give up on a dream...sometimes to give up on it WHILE THEY ARE LIVING IT. Why can't you admit that the people who are being assholes should stop being assholes so the band can get along:? And, Toph, why can't you admit that when the band cuts out the asshole and fires him that they are all a lot happier and better off....and will never want to perform with the asshole again?

You're titles are wrong Monker. Remember, JY is asshole and Tommy is Cokehead.

Blaming Dennis for Tommy's stupidity is insane. Dennis didn't shove those drugs up Tommy's nose. There's a concept called personal responsibility.

[Boomchild]

No, I do not recall it mentioned that he was drunk. What I recall is that Dennis wanted JC out of the band and was particularly hard on him on and off stage. After that incident, JC had enough and quit the band.

What someone recalls and what is fact are not the same things.

So, yeah, I can see this crap from Dennis driving JC to drink....and Tommy to drugs...and Brad Delp to suicide.

This is so lame. The first thing addicts do is blame someone or something else for their addictions. As far as Tommy goes, his use of narcotics and booze predates the time of the escalated turmoil in the band. I remember him talking about how they would give and do coke with radio station people during the time of GI and PO8 as a form of payola.

[Cassie May]

No, I do not recall it mentioned that he was drunk. What I recall is that Dennis wanted JC out of the band and was particularly hard on him on and off stage. After that incident, JC had enough and quit the band.

What someone recalls and what is fact are not the same things.

So, yeah, I can see this crap from Dennis driving JC to drink....and Tommy to drugs...and Brad Delp to suicide.

This is so lame. The first thing addicts do is blame someone or something else for their addictions. As far as Tommy goes, his use of narcotics and booze predates the time of the escalated turmoil in the band. I remember him talking about how they would give and do coke with radio station people during the time of GI and PO8 as a form of payola.

Tommy's alcohol and drug usage predates his Styx days. He started as a teen. I have read many stories of his MS Funk days, during which time he drank, smoked pot, and took LSD. So, he was certainly predisposed. BUT, he is hardly any different from many other teenagers, especially during that time frame. The difference is, he survived it and got clean (in 1989), something that Toph (Mr I live in the past) refuses to acknowledge.

[Boomchild]

Tommy's alcohol and drug usage predates his Styx days. He started as a teen. I have read many stories of his MS Funk days, during which time he drank, smoked pot, and took LSD. So, he was certainly predisposed. BUT, he is hardly any different from many other teenagers, especially during that time frame. The difference is, he survived it and got clean (in 1989), something that Toph (Mr I live in the past) refuses to acknowledge.

I think this is partly due to the fact that some want to excuse way Tommy's drug use during his time in Styx. Meaning not willing to take into account that this also was part of the problems they had.

[Cassie May]

Tommy's alcohol and drug usage predates his Styx days. He started as a teen. I have read many stories of his MS Funk days, during which time he drank, smoked pot, and took LSD. So, he was certainly predisposed. BUT, he is hardly any different from many other teenagers, especially during that time frame. The difference is, he survived it and got clean (in 1989), something that Toph (Mr I live in the past) refuses to acknowledge.

I think this is partly due to the fact that some want to excuse way Tommy's drug use during his time in Styx. Meaning not willing to take into account that this also was part of the problems they had.

Oh, I agree. Fact is, it was a vicious cycle all the way around. Tommy was unhappy, so his usage increased; as his usage increased, he shut down and the music and the band suffered. It's the cycle of the addict regardless of profession. As far as Styx goes, everyone had their demons and everyone played a role in the band's implosion.

[Archetype]

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that Toph thinks he's right in thinking that he can call someone an asshole/cokehead/whatever who he knows nothing about personally because said person doesn't want to work with (essentially live with if you consider how touring works) another person who Toph also doesn't know personally. It's like massively childish but sort of entertaining. Tommy and JY (who both personally know Dennis very well) have made it very clear that they don't want to work with Dennis and don't enjoy being around him. That's the end of it. Move on.

[Zan]

Those were the days.Before Dennis turned into an unbearable prick,and got himself fired.

Wait, I thought that was Cornerstone? And Babe. You know that song that made Cokehead do so much coke that he almost killed himself?

Anyone who has a grasp on reality understands that 1) How people behave in public and on stage can be vastly different from what goes on behind closed doors. 2) Most people don't fall permanently out of graces by simply one mistake and/or asshole move - that usually takes time, and a lot of asshole moves accumulated. 3) A lot can happen in a few short years.

Glad to see we're STILL having the same conversations over here on MR! LOL

[Toph]

No, I do not recall it mentioned that he was drunk. What I recall is that Dennis wanted JC out of the band and was particularly hard on him on and off stage. After that incident, JC had enough and quit the band.

What someone recalls and what is fact are not the same things.

So, yeah, I can see this crap from Dennis driving JC to drink....and Tommy to drugs...and Brad Delp to suicide.

This is so lame. The first thing addicts do is blame someone or something else for their addictions. As far as Tommy goes, his use of narcotics and booze predates the time of the escalated turmoil in the band. I remember him talking about how they would give and do coke with radio station people during the time of GI and PO8 as a form of payola.

Tommy's alcohol and drug usage predates his Styx days. He started as a teen. I have read many stories of his MS Funk days, during which time he drank, smoked pot, and took LSD. So, he was certainly predisposed. BUT, he is hardly any different from many other teenagers, especially during that time frame. The difference is, he survived it and got clean (in 1989), something that Toph (Mr I live in the past) refuses to acknowledge.

How do you know he's clean now? Just sayin...

[Boomchild]

How do you know he's clean now? Just sayin...

I think it's pretty safe to say he is. Judging how his drug use effected his ability to perform and create good material. Also when you get to be his age it becomes very hard to function as he does while using.

[Monker]

Those were the days.Before Dennis turned into an unbearable prick,and got himself fired.

Wait, I thought that was Cornerstone? And Babe. You know that song that made Cokehead do so much coke that he almost killed himself?

Anyone who has a grasp on reality understands that 1) How people behave in public and on stage can be vastly different from what goes on behind closed doors. 2) Most people don't fall permanently out of graces by simply one mistake and/or asshole move - that usually takes time, and a lot of asshole moves accumulated. 3) A lot can happen in a few short years.

Glad to see we're STILL having the same conversations over here on MR! LOL

You can always ask Froy to come back for a full reunion....