Why continue to bury the past?

[Toph]

The band masquerading as Styx is back to their old shenanigans - trying to pretend that they've never done or sang a ballad. See DDY's Facebook post, 2nd paragraph...

Hey kids,
For the last seven years since the invention of VEVO I have waited for them to request DLIE. BOT, SMTW, BABE. AND MR. R. Back when it started they came immediately to me for DESERT MOON but inexplicably none of these other Styx songs. It's good to be on VEVO because of their world wide reach and their crazy habit of paying artists for number of views. Hey let's not get carried away what's next paying for music? Silly goose.

Finally tired of waiting I did some calling around and low and behold they are all up. The catalyst for me to do something was some recent editions VEVO made from my former colleagues new ventures which include a new album and new DVD.
Why were all the aforementioned songs and their official videos which I wrote and sang with Styx omitted when they were all substantial hits including Babe our only number 1 song? Must have been an oversite. Here's Don't Let It End the first one I'll post which will be followed by all the others I have listed. Enjoy and reminisce.

This DLIE video was done on the Kilroy set with prison costumes from the opening dramatic movie to save money. Remember MTV had yet to be invented so we didn't realize it would become so vital to the promotion of music or we would have dressed nicer on that prison soundstage. Perhaps satin and lame'...always helpful to prevent recidivism.

In the original draft I wrote for the concept, Kilroy had a love interest and was married compounding the loss and the dramatic tension. I realized early on that this would require someone to fill that role and would require a song. But that would have taken the focus from band members only and would have presented an unnecessary distraction. Still I had written the song (a pretty good one) and Brian Gibson our director and screenwriter came up with the idea of me singing to my lost spouse from my prison cell. The role of wife was portrayed by a young Hollywood starlet simply named "Suzanne" who I went on to have a torrid love affair with to this very day. We had met earlier at the birth of our children.

Don't ya just love my little scarf. Yikes.

In theory the scene morphs from a reminiscence in a hotel room to the prison floor. Although for me prison and hotel room are synonymous . For those of us who have spent a life time in them they can never seem like vacation spots, they all smell like work. This has traditionally aggravated my family who oddly enough enjoy vacations. "DAD YOU KILL JOY" they would shout. That's Kilroy kids...I'm Kilroy. How many times must I say it.

So here it is. I must admit it's been years since I watched it and found it a tad campy but a great lip synch and good band performance and of course the tune. Does anyone remember Tad Campy he was a weatherman in Phoenix for years, which requires telling folks exactly how much of their skin will burn off and blow away on any given day. It's a dry heat.
My biggest regret in this video might be the scarf.

Cheers Dennis
p.s. Thanks to Doug Barasch at VEVO for his help.
#VEVO #Styx #Kilroy

Styx - Don't Let It End (Cameo Version)
Music video by Styx performing Don't Let It End. (C) 1984 A&M Records http://vevo.ly/EkMWqw
YOUTUBE.COM

[Monker]

Interesting you imply this is something 'new' when Dennis himself says it has been like this for seven years.

The only one up to their old tricks is YOU.

[Boomchild]

All I know is that since DDY and the rest of the band parted ways they have acknowledged it was due to differences about the bands musical direction. The existing members preferred the musical direction from Equinox to PO8. Meaning less emphasis on Pop Rock Ballads and more straight Rock music. To make that comparison they are acknowledging they did ballad material. The reality is that they wish to put emphasis on what Styx is now and not the past.

[Toph]

Interesting you imply this is something 'new' when Dennis himself says it has been like this for seven years.

The only one up to their old tricks is YOU.

You clearly have some mental problems. I'm just passing on what Dennis said.

[Toph]

All I know is that since DDY and the rest of the band parted ways they have acknowledged it was due to differences about the bands musical direction. The existing members preferred the musical direction from Equinox to PO8. Meaning less emphasis on Pop Rock Ballads and more straight Rock music. To make that comparison they are acknowledging they did ballad material. The reality is that they wish to put emphasis on what Styx is now and not the past.

No reason to try and NOT put out and ignore their biggest hits and try to deep six them and not make them available to the public via Vevo. No reason to completely erase DDY and his contributions from the website. If you are fine with that, clearly you aren't much of a Styx fan.

[yogi]

After 'Current Styx' dumped Dennis in 1999 up to about a year after Cyclorama was released they were accused of using DDY to sell tickets. Alot of his songs & his voice were used in advertising for upcoming concerts. In concert they played Best Of Times every now and then, Roboto was in Todd's Cyclomelody etc... The ONLY HIT song (s) I never heard them play at all were Babe and Dont Let It End. They were ripped here and on other sites OFTEN for using DDY to sell their concert tickets.

It was around 2004/2005 that they pretty much said the hell with this and cut him pretty much out.

Point being, they cant win either way. Either they are using Dennis or erasing Dennis.

[LtVanish]

After 'Current Styx' dumped Dennis in 1999 up to about a year after Cyclorama was released they were accused of using DDY to sell tickets. Alot of his songs & his voice were used in advertising for upcoming concerts. In concert they played Best Of Times every now and then, Roboto was in Todd's Cyclomelody etc... The ONLY HIT song I never heard them play at all was Babe. They were ripped here and on other sites OFTEN for using DDY to sell their concert tickets.

It was around 2004/2005 that they pretty much said the hell with this and cut him pretty much out.

Point being, they cant win either way. Either they are using Dennis or erasing Dennis.

They should of renamed the band as well if they are so embarrassed at the history. I just don't understand why they feel so threatened by "ballads" do they realize that a lot of people like ballads?

Name change Styx to Kindling

[Boomchild]

No reason to try and NOT put out and ignore their biggest hits and try to deep six them and not make them available to the public via Vevo. No reason to completely erase DDY and his contributions from the website. If you are fine with that, clearly you aren't much of a Styx fan.

You are taking DDY's post out of context. He was saying he could not understand why VEVO hadn't made said videos available. The current Styx does not own VEVO nor control what that company does.If they did and the current band was looking to suppress the material then they wouldn't have added them after DDY contacted VEVO. All the current Styx is doing is focusing on the material that they prefer and want to promote. Which is very logical. I am sure if someone asked them about the material in question they would not deny it's existence.

As to them removing most historical references to DDY on their website, I agree that was a petty move. I believe they have corrected some of that but I have not and wish not to visit their site to confirm it.

Apparently, you have a hard time grasping the point that current Styx is about doing what THEY want to do and not what someone else or what the past would seem to dictate. I think all you want to do is keep dredging up the past. I would argue that if you truly would want to see DDY reunite with Styx you would stop bringing crap like this up and stop dissing his former band mates. It does nothing to foster a reason for TS & JY to even consider a reunion. The way in which you conduct yourself makes it seem that your really are just a DDY fan and not a fan of Styx as a whole. Take a lesson from DDY. Meaning, he NEVER has trash talked his former band mates in public and has ALWAYS focused on their accomplishments.

[yogi]

Boom,

That's what I thought also. I would think that Vevo can have any video they want on their site. I didnt understand why Toph was ripping Styx for this.

[Boomchild]

Boom,

That's what I thought also. I would think that Vevo can have any video they want on their site. I didnt understand why Toph was ripping Styx for this.

Based on DDY's post it seems to me they can add any music video to their service as long as they pay some kind of per view fee to the copyright holder.

[tj]

Many bands who have split with significantly contributing members (DDY/Styx, Perry/Journey, Gramm/Foreigner, Anderson et. al/Yes) have contractual agreements which require various levels of permission to use the name, likeness, etc, of former members or their contributions. In many cases, it is easier just to not include them in the website, promotion, etc. in an effort to avoid the hassle of having to get the former members' agreement. It's almost like each incarnation of the band is a separate business who used the band's name.

[Monker]

Interesting you imply this is something 'new' when Dennis himself says it has been like this for seven years.

The only one up to their old tricks is YOU.

You clearly have some mental problems. I'm just passing on what Dennis said.

That is just not true. Not even Dennis blamed the band and accused them of burying the past...you added that to his words when you passed it on. It was simply never requested - by anybody. And, DENNIS noticed it seven years ago. Perhaps he is the one embarrassed by Styx so even though he knew these videos could be added, he didn't request them? It's really the same type of labeling game and twisted logic that you are using.

[Monker]

This is true. Back when the Journey website had a forum, people were posting various pictures of the band and Steve Perry...some the fans took themselves. Perry's lawyers threatened to sue due to having his image posted to the website without his permission. Journey (probably Neal) didn't like non-official pics posted, either. Therefore, any image posted to the forums, including avatars, had to be approved by a moderator.

In Styx' case, Dennis already took them to court once...so they would be foolish to have his name and image posted all over their site without his permission...and I'm sure they wanted to avoid talking to him about it as well. It's much easier to just remove him and not be sued for a second time. Besides, I would think this was all part of the settlement as well...that Styx could not use his name and image to promote the band....and the website exists to promote the band.

[Boomchild]

In Styx' case, Dennis already took them to court once...so they would be foolish to have his name and image posted all over their site without his permission...and I'm sure they wanted to avoid talking to him about it as well. It's much easier to just remove him and not be sued for a second time. Besides, I would think this was all part of the settlement as well...that Styx could not use his name and image to promote the band....and the website exists to promote the band.

This is a very flimsy argument as to why they did what they did. It's obvious that DDY is very proud of his accomplishments and history in the band. I highly doubt he would object to his former band mates acknowledging his involvement and contributions to the band in telling the bands history on their site. As far as the hassle of having to talk to DDY to get his permission, they wouldn't have to do it personally. In a lot of cases these things are done through lawyers. Meaning the members don't contact or talk to each other directly. Heck, in reading Sterling's book even when they were all together JY had a habit of using lawyers to communicate with the other members. The point is, they could have gotten his OK to include him in the bands history page WITHOUT ever speaking to him personally.

[Toph]

In Styx' case, Dennis already took them to court once...so they would be foolish to have his name and image posted all over their site without his permission...and I'm sure they wanted to avoid talking to him about it as well. It's much easier to just remove him and not be sued for a second time. Besides, I would think this was all part of the settlement as well...that Styx could not use his name and image to promote the band....and the website exists to promote the band.

This is a very flimsy argument as to why they did what they did. It's obvious that DDY is very proud of his accomplishments and history in the band. I highly doubt he would object to his former band mates acknowledging his involvement and contributions to the band in telling the bands history on their site. As far as the hassle of having to talk to DDY to get his permission, they wouldn't have to do it personally. In a lot of cases these things are done through lawyers. Meaning the members don't contact or talk to each other directly. Heck, in reading Sterling's book even when they were all together JY had a habit of using lawyers to communicate with the other members. The point is, they could have gotten his OK to include him in the bands history page WITHOUT ever speaking to him personally.

I'm not surprised. Monkey is constantly passing off complete and utter bullshit

[Toph]

Interesting you imply this is something 'new' when Dennis himself says it has been like this for seven years.

The only one up to their old tricks is YOU.

You clearly have some mental problems. I'm just passing on what Dennis said.

That is just not true. Not even Dennis blamed the band and accused them of burying the past...you added that to his words when you passed it on. It was simply never requested - by anybody. And, DENNIS noticed it seven years ago. Perhaps he is the one embarrassed by Styx so even though he knew these videos could be added, he didn't request them? It's really the same type of labeling game and twisted logic that you are using.

OMG, you're either dense as hell or just so into Tommy's pants, you can't distinguish reality. Read between the lines, moron.

[Monker]

In Styx' case, Dennis already took them to court once...so they would be foolish to have his name and image posted all over their site without his permission...and I'm sure they wanted to avoid talking to him about it as well. It's much easier to just remove him and not be sued for a second time. Besides, I would think this was all part of the settlement as well...that Styx could not use his name and image to promote the band....and the website exists to promote the band.

This is a very flimsy argument as to why they did what they did. It's obvious that DDY is very proud of his accomplishments and history in the band. I highly doubt he would object to his former band mates acknowledging his involvement and contributions to the band in telling the bands history on their site. As far as the hassle of having to talk to DDY to get his permission, they wouldn't have to do it personally. In a lot of cases these things are done through lawyers. Meaning the members don't contact or talk to each other directly. Heck, in reading Sterling's book even when they were all together JY had a habit of using lawyers to communicate with the other members. The point is, they could have gotten his OK to include him in the bands history page WITHOUT ever speaking to him personally.

It's not flimsy at all. We are talking about ego-centric musicians here. Perry suing over FANS posting pics? The BAND upset of FANS posting other than official pics, even ones they took themselves? Come on...this petty CRAP happens all the time.

As I have said, Stephen Housden sued former members of Little River Band....over an album cover where "Little River Band" was in too big of a font on a picture of a marquee. That is how petty and stupid these things get. That is why Styx pays their attorney's...to avoid these type of legal things and avoid dealing with a guy they want nothing to do with.

AGAIN. DENNIS DEYOUNG had already sued the band once. Do you not see how ANY attorney out there is going to point to their official website and tell the band that they are at risk of being sued because Dennis' name and pics are all over the website? Do you not see how much simpler it is to remove Dennis from the website than it is to keep open communication and negotiation with a guy that sued them and they just settled the case? Do you not see how they would not want ANY dealings with this guy and just want the relationship to END? My God, you are naive. If anything, I would expect Styx to hand it to their lawyers and say, "get this guy out of our careers." and the lawyers, with Styx OK, ordered the changes made.

[Monker]

OMG, you're either dense as hell or just so into Tommy's pants, you can't distinguish reality. Read between the lines, moron.

Seven years. That is how long DENNIS knew about it. SEVEN YEARS where DENNIS did NOTHING about it. SEVEN YEARS of opportunity for DENNIS to make the change. SEVEN YEARS where there is NOBODY to "blame" for this except Dennis DeYoung.

SEVEN YEARS

[Cassie May]

It's not flimsy at all. We are talking about ego-centric musicians here. Perry suing over FANS posting pics? The BAND upset of FANS posting other than official pics, even ones they took themselves? Come on...this petty CRAP happens all the time.

I just saw the posts about that on the Journey board recently. I was stunned! How pretty can you get? What is so wrong with fans posting pics? Good Lord.

[Boomchild]

OMG, you're either dense as hell or just so into Tommy's pants, you can't distinguish reality. Read between the lines, moron.

Nope. It is you trying to make a connection that isn't there. If TS or JY were somehow blocking these videos from being added, then they WOULD NOT have been added after DDY contacted the company about the videos. As I said before, if you truly want to see a reunion you have a funny way of presenting it. Keep up the TS and JY bashing and you just give them an excuse not to want to do it. Most of us here know the days of DDY being a part of Styx is over. It's been over for a least a decade now. Dennis and some of the fan base can hope and wish for it but it is clear that TS and JY's message has remained the same and is crystal clear. They are not interested in sharing the stage (performance wise) with DDY EVER AGAIN. DDY may not like it. I may not like it. YOU may not like it or be willing to accept THE REALITY of it. It's not going to change a damn thing.

[Boomchild]

AGAIN. DENNIS DEYOUNG had already sued the band once. Do you not see how ANY attorney out there is going to point to their official website and tell the band that they are at risk of being sued because Dennis' name and pics are all over the website? Do you not see how much simpler it is to remove Dennis from the website than it is to keep open communication and negotiation with a guy that sued them and they just settled the case? Do you not see how they would not want ANY dealings with this guy and just want the relationship to END? My God, you are naive. If anything, I would expect Styx to hand it to their lawyers and say, "get this guy out of our careers." and the lawyers, with Styx OK, ordered the changes made.

We are not talking about putting DDY's name and image "all over the website". Were talking about mentioning his name in the band's history. That part doesn't entail the whole website. I've said it before I would highly doubt DDY would be upset if they were to reference him on the site in a historical sense. At this point it really doesn't matter anyway.

[masque]

isn't it obvious to everyone that the problems, resentment, rifts between these guys run MUCH MUCH deeper than any of us know???

the fact of the matter is that this whole thing is like a really really bad divorce.

to many DDY was the primary bread winner and yet when the divorce ruling came down TS and JY got to keep the house and cars to DDY's objections.

To others, people see TS and JY's contributions as extremely important to the overall success of the machine that was styx.

to me, more than one thing can be true......they would never had achieved their overall success first and foremost without DDY and then secondly TS. and even though I am a HUGE JY fan, honestly, he was not super crucial to their overall success.....his role could have been filled by most any really good rocker guy. would they miss songs like miss america, great white hope and midnight ride? hell yes they would, but I think the machine would have still garnered most of the success they did with or without him.

now, with all of that said, for whatever reason, a judge ruled against DDY being able to control the name or own the name. it's over. DDY may have paid more on the house than the others, but the law didn't favor him when it mattered. It's time to move on.

as for TS and JY wanting to "erase" him from existence......yeh its stupid to do so, but it is their prerogative. since they own the name, they can pretty much do whatever they want at this point. doesnt matter at all how anybody else feels about it.....the seem to be satisfied with their current business model and it seems to generate enough money that they dont need to make any unnecessary references to DDY, deserving or not. as fans, you either have to accept that, or become so disgruntled that you move on.

but I can honestly say that since they do seem to be more interested in acting like he never existed then it seems whatever mental damage he did to their relationships over the years certainly left a lasting impression with TS and JY to want to separate themselves that much from him. it appears they genuinely dislike the guy and want to put as much distance as possible from him.

and let's face it......if i were in the band, I would for sure be trying to push the material that makes ME the most money these days. why push DDY penned material? he is the one that makes the bulk of that money.

[Monker]

It's not flimsy at all. We are talking about ego-centric musicians here. Perry suing over FANS posting pics? The BAND upset of FANS posting other than official pics, even ones they took themselves? Come on...this petty CRAP happens all the time.

I just saw the posts about that on the Journey board recently. I was stunned! How pretty can you get? What is so wrong with fans posting pics? Good Lord.

Well, a few things happened.

First, Journey had a very strict camera policy at their concerts back in the early 2000's. I have seen security take cameras and remove SD cards (or film, back then) and keep them. So, if you get a lot of fans posting concert pics, it kinda encourages the picture taking...and the band wanted control of what pics were "out there".

Also, there was an incident where a group led by JrnyDv went on the forum and were bragging about how they were going to get away with it. They were going to put the cameras in the girls purses, or shove them down the front of their pants, women in the cleavage, anywhere where they didn't think security would check or pat them down...and there was a long thread where they were posting this stuff.

Well, security found out about this and took the entire group aside. They had the women empty their purses, and patted down everybody in a way that would make Donald Trump proud because it was men and women.

After that, the moderators REALLY put the law down and were deleting any band pics.

I don't think Journey is quite that bad about pics nowadays...but nothing would surprise me. For a long time, the rule was they would allow disposable cameras, but nothing else.

Compare that to Styx where I have been in the front row taking pics...and they will actually pose for them. Or, I've seen them grab audience cameras and take pics themselves and give it back.

It's supposed to be fun like that...but when things get petty, the fun ends. Journey allowed it to get petty.

[Boomchild]

isn't it obvious to everyone that the problems, resentment, rifts between these guys run MUCH MUCH deeper than any of us know???

the fact of the matter is that this whole thing is like a really really bad divorce.

Maybe it is much deeper then is publicly known and maybe not. But just like in a divorce some never let their hatred, disdain, hate for the other go.

to many DDY was the primary bread winner and yet when the divorce ruling came down TS and JY got to keep the house and cars to DDY's objections.

To others, people see TS and JY's contributions as extremely important to the overall success of the machine that was styx.

to me, more than one thing can be true......they would never had achieved their overall success first and foremost without DDY and then secondly TS. and even though I am a HUGE JY fan, honestly, he was not super crucial to their overall success.....his role could have been filled by most any really good rocker guy. would they miss songs like miss america, great white hope and midnight ride? hell yes they would, but I think the machine would have still garnered most of the success they did with or without him.

I believe the same thing DDY does. It was the combinations of the three of them that made Styx what it was. Their influences on each other was key to what Styx was. Certainly DDY's and TS's contributions garnered the most commercial success for the band.

now, with all of that said, for whatever reason, a judge ruled against DDY being able to control the name or own the name. it's over. DDY may have paid more on the house than the others, but the law didn't favor him when it mattered. It's time to move on.

I do not believe DDY was suing for complete control and ownership of the name or business. He was suing because the others violated the agreement they all signed. Which was that all members had a say (vote) on band decisions. Why they stopped ALL communication with DDY they violated the terms of the agreement. They backed him into a corner where he had no other option but to take legal action to protect his legal interests in the business. One should understand once you make that choice, those involved are most likely not going to be roo keen on working with you in the future.

but I can honestly say that since they do seem to be more interested in acting like he never existed then it seems whatever mental damage he did to their relationships over the years certainly left a lasting impression with TS and JY to want to separate themselves that much from him. it appears they genuinely dislike the guy and want to put as much distance as possible from him.

and let's face it......if i were in the band, I would for sure be trying to push the material that makes ME the most money these days. why push DDY penned material? he is the one that makes the bulk of that money.

I get tried of TS and JY painted as total victims. They contributed to the problems as well. Especially TS with his drug and alcohol abuse that started prior to the rift in the band. Then you have his consistent "threat" to quit the band when things were not going they way he thought they should. Your dealing with three individuals that have large egos. When that is the case, there is bound to be trouble. I remember DDY once sating that when a band garners great success, all the members tend to believe it was their contributions that are mainly responsible for that success. No matter whether it is true or not.

[Toph]

Tommy Shaw personally cost them three arguably top 10 hits with his silly "I quit shenanigans" - Specifically, he caused them to lose releasing the singles First Time, HWBHB (to his own detriment I may add), and probably Boat on The River (remember, DDY said that had they released First Time and it had run its top 5 course, they would have known about BoTR success in Europe and released that in the States. As it was, by the time BoTR had success in Europe, Cornerstone was over in the US because of two poorly executed singles in Why Me and BT.)

[yogi]

What did the label want to release after Babe?

It may be crazy but I always thought that Lights easily could of been an upper mid range hit (25 - 15 ). I thought after Tommy's success with Pieces Of Eight that Lights should of been released second.

[Boomchild]

What did the label want to release after Babe?

It may be crazy but I always thought that Lights easily could of been an upper mid range hit (25 - 15 ). I thought after Tommy's success with Pieces Of Eight that Lights should of been released second.

If remember correctly it was First Time, which Dennis thought was a good idea. Hence the reason TS got concerned about people getting the wrong impression about the band. This is where the Barry Manillow territory comment comes from. In some respects I can see the point. Releasing two ballads back to back could give one the impression that the band was shifting gears. While it may have garnered increased sales it also may have lost them some fans.

[Toph]

What did the label want to release after Babe?

It may be crazy but I always thought that Lights easily could of been an upper mid range hit (25 - 15 ). I thought after Tommy's success with Pieces Of Eight that Lights should of been released second.

They wanted to go First Time next.In fact, a number of radio stations had already picked it up and it was top 5 in some markets - without a single.

But I agree with you in that Lights would have been a good single. I would have done it this way:
- Babe
- Lights
- First Time
- Boat on The River

Balance Dennis and Tommy. Four huge songs - a Journey Escape or REO Hi Infidelity array of 4 hit singles on one album.

[yogi]

I sure would of released Borrowed Time at some point. The Yes No/No Yes wasnt great but the rest of the song ROCKED!

[Monker]

Tommy Shaw personally cost them three arguably top 10 hits with his silly "I quit shenanigans" - Specifically, he caused them to lose releasing the singles First Time, HWBHB (to his own detriment I may add), and probably Boat on The River (remember, DDY said that had they released First Time and it had run its top 5 course, they would have known about BoTR success in Europe and released that in the States. As it was, by the time BoTR had success in Europe, Cornerstone was over in the US because of two poorly executed singles in Why Me and BT.)

Both "First Time" and "Haven't We been Here Before" are way over-rated....especially First Time. Just because Dennis says it could have been a hit doesn't mean it would have. First Time sounds like an Air Supply song, not a Styx song. It is way over the top - to it's detriment. The falsetto sounds gay, as does the "Don't be afraid of love" segue into the first chorus. It is also far too long...or it seems to be.

I like "Haven't We Been Here Before". I like it a lot, actually....but as an album cut - not as a single. I can't imagine hearing it regularly on the radio in the mid-80's. I'll compare it to The Firm's, "Midnight Moonlight". It's one of my all time favorite songs, but, again, as an album cut - I can't imagine hearing it on the radio in the late 80's. Maybe in the mid-70's, though.