With All Due Respect

[FormerDJMike]

When I worked in radio we subscribed to Media Base (which is what Dennis posted). This is not sales but airplays. It is listed as "7 days" so it will be interesting to see how it plays out over 30 days. Chickenfoot being on that list is also just for plays over the past 7 days. I used to use Media Base to determine classic rock plays of certain songs. You can also search by radio stations to see what they are playing.

Billboard tracks sales, digital and physical. Mainly uses Soundscan (which you cannot see numbers without subscribing to Nielson). Media Base is scrictly "plays" and not sales.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

ChicagoStyx wrote:

DDY is being misleading in this post. 26 East did not chart on the billboard top 200 albums. The Mission came in at #45 on the Billboard top 200 albums. DDY could not crack the top 200! Case closed!
Here are the rest of the chart numbers from Billboard for the Mission... All verifiable!!
. #6 Top Rock Albums
- #11 Physical Albums
- #11 Vinyl Albums
- #13 Current Albums
- #14 Billboard Top Albums
- #16 Retail
- #17 Mass Merch/Non-Traditional
- #29 Digital Albums
- #45 Billboard 200 (includes catalog and streaming).

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:


I still can't post the attachment on here, but Frontiers posted this...

Frontiers responded:
For those asking, we can 100% confirm that the chart numbers Dennis posted are very much legitimate. They were given to us by Nielsen Soundscan's weekly reports and were reported to Billboard as such. We wouldn't have let DDY post them if they weren't real as it is easy enough for anyone to verify the legitimacy of them.

[FormerDJMike]

So after some investigation there are several charts on Billboard. One being "The Top 200" which is free to view. Dennis does not appear on that one. The other one is "Top Current Album Sales" which you have to pay to see

https://www.billboard.com/charts/current-albums

I believe it is 37 on this list which we cannot see. But it doesn't make sense to have the top 200 and this chart. I believe the Top 200 is also based on sales as there are several classic albums on there including Journey's GH and GnR Appetite listed for the week.

[yogi]

It’s because Billboard has been guessing since the mid 2000’s. 100 - 200 is often nothing but a guess by Billboard. 1-100 has variables that often are not accurate at all.

I didn’t know Soundscan & Nielsen were the same thing, are they? I believe that Neilson and Billboard used to be pretty much the same thing. Then Billboard was bought out or something. Once they split ( in the early to mid 2000’s ) Billboard shifted to other interests. While Nielsen stayed pretty much with the music
Nielsen is by far the most accurate. They get and go after the most music sources( concert sales, internet sales, retail store sales and record label sales). Often the label won’t turn their sales in but once every two weeks, a month etc.. ). Neilson goes after these sales where Billboard often no longer does.

A good friend of mine that lives in Brooklyn had a younger brother that did an internship then later worked for Billboard in the the late 90’s through around 2015. He told me that most of Billboards Charts are often bogus. They basically stopped doing the work when they more or less expanded into a lot of different entertainment.

[scarab]

when i was checking to see how "no erasin" was doing on the Billboard AC charts Taylor Swift has the #1 slot for like 30+ weeks.
then i knew how bogus these charts are. And you have to pay to seen some of em, would love to know the fool that does.

[FormerDJMike]

It’s because Billboard has been guessing since the mid 2000’s. 100 - 200 is often nothing but a guess by Billboard. 1-100 has variables that often are not accurate at all.

I didn’t know Soundscan & Nielsen were the same thing, are they? I believe that Neilson and Billboard used to be pretty much the same thing. Then Billboard was bought out or something. Once they split ( in the early to mid 2000’s ) Billboard shifted to other interests. While Nielsen stayed pretty much with the music
Nielsen is by far the most accurate. They get and go after the most music sources( concert sales, internet sales, retail store sales and record label sales). Often the label won’t turn their sales in but once every two weeks, a month etc.. ). Neilson goes after these sales where Billboard often no longer does.

A good friend of mine that lives in Brooklyn had a younger brother that did an internship then later worked for Billboard in the the late 90’s through around 2015. He told me that most of Billboards Charts are often bogus. They basically stopped doing the work when they more or less expanded into a lot of different entertainment.

The Billboard Top 100 is based on plays by radio stations who report to them and maybe single downloads of songs. Nielson owns Soundscan. They also bought out Aribitron which does radio ratings. So Nielson does radio, tv and music sales tracking. Soundscan still reports their numbers to Billboard. This accounts for media sales in stores, online purchases and digital downloads from Amazon or Apple.

I believe the Billboard charts are correct. What I don't understand are the multiple charts of "Top 200" and "Top Albums". They are not the same.

One way Soundscan works is by tracking the actual number of UNITS sent to a store even if they are not purchased. (Go into Walmart and next time you are there you will probably find multiple copies of AC/DC Black Ice or Journey Eclipse). These count as sales not to the consumer but Walmart.

Let's say 10 copies of 26 East were sent to a Walmart. But 100 copies of Taylor Swift were sent to the same Walmart. She outnumbers Dennis by 90 on "sales" from a Walmart making her release chart much higher on the Top 200. These are determined as sales even if they don't sell because the product was not given to Walmart (or whatever music outlet) they had to buy it at a bulk or discounted rate and then sell what they can.

I think the "Top Album Sales" (which has Bob Dylan at #1 this week) is probably the more accurate chart as this is taking in digital sales and actual units moved which would put Dennis at 37 on that chart but not the Top 200. Since Walmart/Target/FYe, etc do not sell digital downloads these are not a factor on the Top 200 chart.

Does any of this make sense? I know it is pretty confusing and I could be incorrect myself but essentially both the Top 200 and the Top Album Sales charts are correct.

Since you have to pay money to subscribe to certain charts on Billboard's website this leads me to believe they spend a pretty penny subscribing to Nielson/Soundscan and are recouping the costs passed on to the subscriber. And I don't see why any of us would bother subscribing to such a service only to "look" at charts, it is probably used by radio stations and record companies to see how their product is doing but anyone wiling to shell out 10.99 a month can look at it as well.

[Monker]

One way Soundscan works is by tracking the actual number of UNITS sent to a store even if they are not purchased. (Go into Walmart and next time you are there you will probably find multiple copies of AC/DC Black Ice or Journey Eclipse). These count as sales not to the consumer but Walmart.

One note about Journey "Eclipse"...If you go to Walmart.com and look it up, you will see it is fulfilled by a liquidator, not Walmart.

So, I assume that Walmart over ordered so badly that they sold their inventory to a liquidator to get it out of their warehouse and into someone elses. So, you may see multiple copies of Eclipse at Walmart...but it is no where near an indicator of how many unsold copies were actually ordered. It seems to me they were expecting sales closer to Revelation, which was 800,000...compared to Eclipse that barely crossed 100,000.

Let's say 10 copies of 26 East were sent to a Walmart. But 100 copies of Taylor Swift were sent to the same Walmart. She outnumbers Dennis by 90 on "sales" from a Walmart making her release chart much higher on the Top 200. These are determined as sales even if they don't sell because the product was not given to Walmart (or whatever music outlet) they had to buy it at a bulk or discounted rate and then sell what they can.

I think the "Top Album Sales" (which has Bob Dylan at #1 this week) is probably the more accurate chart as this is taking in digital sales and actual units moved which would put Dennis at 37 on that chart but not the Top 200. Since Walmart/Target/FYe, etc do not sell digital downloads these are not a factor on the Top 200 chart.

One thing to also consider is if these digital "sales" include free downloads? I know, for example, Prime members on Amazon can sometimes download albums and single songs for free. Are these counted as sales?

[Monker]

We wouldn't have let DDY post them if they weren't real as it is easy enough for anyone to verify the legitimacy of them.

So, you have control over what Dennis writes on his FB page. That's interesting.

[StyxGuy]

One thing to also consider is if these digital "sales" include free downloads? I know, for example, Prime members on Amazon can sometimes download albums and single songs for free. Are these counted as sales?

My understanding is that charting/reporting systems do not count any copies that are given away. It would also omit copies of albums given away (physically or digitally) when someone purchases a concert ticket. It had been allowed but the practice was stopped in 2004. I think Dennis had mentioned in an FB post or on a video how he'd already pre-sold 10,000 copies which I think were associated with his upcoming tour... those do not count when it comes to charts.

http://www.mtv.com/news/1488027/billboa ... xperiment/

[SuiteMadameBlue]

We wouldn't have let DDY post them if they weren't real as it is easy enough for anyone to verify the legitimacy of them.

So, you have control over what Dennis writes on his FB page. That's interesting.

Frontiers was responding to a question about the charts. I couldn't post the attachment on this site, so I copied and pasted the response. I went on his Facebook page, I don't have control on what he posts.

[Monker]

One thing to also consider is if these digital "sales" include free downloads? I know, for example, Prime members on Amazon can sometimes download albums and single songs for free. Are these counted as sales?

My understanding is that charting/reporting systems do not count any copies that are given away. It would also omit copies of albums given away (physically or digitally) when someone purchases a concert ticket. It had been allowed but the practice was stopped in 2004. I think Dennis had mentioned in an FB post or on a video how he'd already pre-sold 10,000 copies which I think were associated with his upcoming tour... those do not count when it comes to charts.

http://www.mtv.com/news/1488027/billboa ... xperiment/

I know this. Journey tried to do this with the Generations album but the rules had already changed by the time it was released. What Prince did was specifically given as the reason why they wanted to do this..

However, this is not the same as paying for Amazon Prime and then downloading a "free" album. Are these counted by Billboard? It could be argued that you "paid" for the album when you bought Amazon Prime.

[FormerDJMike]

Some Prime albums are free. In fact, check out Dirty Honey they are awesome! It is a free download if you are a prime member. But it isnt a sale so it doesn't count. And Prime albums can disappear. I downloaded a Whitesnake album and it disappeared off my phone before I could get around to playing it. Then when I tried to download it again it said it was no longer available.

Same with movies I downloaded Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered Country and it expired before I got around to watching it.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Some Prime albums are free. In fact, check out Dirty Honey they are awesome! It is a free download if you are a prime member. But it isnt a sale so it doesn't count. And Prime albums can disappear. I downloaded a Whitesnake album and it disappeared off my phone before I could get around to playing it. Then when I tried to download it again it said it was no longer available.

Same with movies I downloaded Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered Country and it expired before I got around to watching it.

Just played "Rolling 7's", I like that song a lot!!! So far I really like what I'm hearing with Dirty Honey. Thank you for the suggestion. I like to hear newer music in addition to my favorites. I like Greta Van Fleet when they came out. Besides DDY's new album I've been listening to Journey, Shinedown, Avenged Sevenfold and mixed in a little Godsmack this week.

[gr8dane]

Top Ten UCR

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/


Dylan, Neil Young, Ozzy, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Nine Inch Nails, Joe Satriani etc. and Dennis. It’s obvious, people love “Cheese”.

That sound you just heard was the mic dropping on Chicago Styx’s big toe, bouncing up to hit GR8 on the “bridge” of his nose then ricocheting into the throat of El Dupe’. Bad luck 3 on a Monker. Go away little trolls your mommies are calling you.

About the band, Dennis never lied. They did, it’s in print and you’re a coward when you say you don’t care. Because you are one of the people who can’t admit when they’re wrong and you are scared. And you were wrong at the top of your lungs.

Dennis did however hide the truth to protect Tommy concerning his out of control behavior on drugs and alcohol, hoping that he’d get well and come back to the band. He would not replace him like the others wanted. And again until recently he protected Tommy by not telling us it was Tommy who needed the money that caused the 97 tour, instead of a new Styx album.

His thanks, one year later while sick he’s replaced. Styx is now Tommy’s plaything.
The bath tub is empty just like you trolls.

So,if it's in print, and it helps DeYoung's Disciple proving a point, in favour of Dennis,It's OK.?
But if I want to use Sterling's book to prove a point, that helps Styx ,it's a no go.?
As usual I am referring to page 294,where Todd is watching Dennis tear Tommy to shreds.It was probably the last time they spoke.
It's a great little read.

LOL.Dennis has never lied about anything ?? You know, to get things his way ? Never ?

And I am so scared, that I forgot ,why I am scared.Maybe you can tell me why I am scared.