Ok What is the Real Scoop on DDY not in Styx anymore?

[Leesa]

sorry have to ask....now I, being new to this board and although I am not new to the music of styx but I am to history, am going to open up old wounds on this subject,
I know there is a lot of indifferences when it comes to Styx, DDY leaving it, (although I'm not sure why he did, some think he was kicked out others not) I'd like to get the true facts about this if you all don't mind.
If we're still getting the great music of Styx and they are both touring and getting gigs, why should it all matter now? I mean DDY is a success in all ways, does he hold them responsible? Is he pissed off at the band for what happened? ok, what really did happen between them? We're they big a55holes to him about something? Was any of this due to an illness on DDY's part? I've gathered bits and pieces of things and haven't gotten the whole story yet. Do people really think Gowen sucks? I mean come on he's not the quality of DDY but he does put on a great show and adds character to the band and sounds very similiar, in my opinion anyway, and he gets the crowd going so why does he not make a suitable addition? Did he have something to do with DDY leaving?
or is it the fact that he stands in a place he doesn't belong in because he is performing DDY's material? Geez I hope I don't sound stupid here...
Ok, I'm putting on my shield now....let me know your opinions lol

[Ash]

Dennis did not "leave" Styx, he was hurled forcefully from the band by James Young and Tommy Shaw. The told him to take his roboto-loving ass elsewhere.... although it's that same roboto-loving ass that made Styx what it is truly known for. Which is why Styx have somewhat faded to obscurity since giving DDY the Benedict Arnold treatment.

Does that help?


{I just re-read this .... and I'm a bit ashamed of it.... I was drinking last night and likely should not have posted... but I'll leave it here for the sake of continuity (although the roboto-loving ass line did just give me a chuckle) - Ash}

[Abitaman]

Dennis was sick (true or not I don't know), didn't want to relaese Brave New World yet, Tommy and JY did. So that hired a replacement with LArry. Released the cd and went on tour. They said Dennis could come back when he got well, but with the VW commercial, and other things going on, they felt like they needed the cd out, and to be on tour. I think the didn't really believe Dennis' illness, because it is know that Dennis is a stay at home, while Tommy and JY Love the road. Dennis then sued Styx to stop them from using the name Styx and was settled out of court. Styx kept the name, and Dennis can us along the line "from Styx.. Fromerly of Styx.. Voice of Styx...etc.." LAwsuit drove a bigger wedge. JY keeps running his mouth, saying MR DEYOUNG will never be in Styx, TOmmy and DDY are silent.
LArry is not bad as a singer, great showman and keyboardist. But alot of people are mad because they Dennis was kicked out, others say Dennis, just wanted show more control over the group, and TS and JY said NO! But Larry had nothing to do with Dennis not being in the band.-ERIC

[Adam]

Hats off to Abitaman for giving a pretty much fair & unbiased answer. I applaud anyone who can communicate so intelligently.

I suspect there was a long history of struggle within the band. It didn't help that these guys were young men when they were rewarded (RockNRoll + $$$ = SPOILED EGOTISTIC CHILDREN). At the stage they are all now at (middle aged/bordering on retirement age) they are less flexible than they once might've been, more cranky. So, they have less patience with each other, and tend to make more demands for themselves.

This led to divorce. Styx got divorced.

Like Abitaman said, after the lawsuit, a few nasty interviews and a number of semi-successful NON-DeYoung tours (Hey! We enjoy playing WITHOUT him!) it seems things will stay like this. For awhile at least.

My prediction: it's only a matter of time before there's some sort of reunion. But that's way off in the future.

[froy]

8) sorry have to ask....now I, being new to this board and although I am not new to the music of styx but I am to history, am going to open up old wounds on this subject,
I know there is a lot of indifferences when it comes to Styx, DDY leaving it, (although I'm not sure why he did, some think he was kicked out others not) I'd like to get the true facts about this if you all don't mind.
If we're still getting the great music of Styx and they are both touring and getting gigs, why should it all matter now? I mean DDY is a success in all ways, does he hold them responsible? Is he pissed off at the band for what happened? ok, what really did happen between them? We're they big a55holes to him about something? Was any of this due to an illness on DDY's part? I've gathered bits and pieces of things and haven't gotten the whole story yet. Do people really think Gowen sucks? I mean come on he's not the quality of DDY but he does put on a great show and adds character to the band and sounds very similiar, in my opinion anyway, and he gets the crowd going so why does he not make a suitable addition? Did he have something to do with DDY leaving?
or is it the fact that he stands in a place he doesn't belong in because he is performing DDY's material? Geez I hope I don't sound stupid here...
Ok, I'm putting on my shield now....let me know your opinions lol

The real scoop is Shaw and Young need money and 600 concerts later they have it , No sane man with money would do 600 concerts in 5 years.
Dennis did not need that income so he was pushed out,
Anything else is smoke and mirrors
Bottom line Dennis was pushed out for money reasons
Thats it

[bugsymalone]

While not getting too deeply into the politics and the "two camps" mindset, I think what happened to Styx is a universal problem with many, many bands (we have discussed this before, so you may want to look into the old threads here, too).

Fissures occur in band unity when success is attained and you have 2, 3, maybe more, members who feel that they are the reason for the success and want to assume a leadership role.

We know Styx had a big push-pull issue within between Dennis and John C and later Dennis and Tommy Shaw.

Dennis made a statement on Behind the Music that he felt he provided leadership, which was a very necessary role, he felt, someone needed to play in any band. Not a viewpoint, obviously, shared by Tommy or JY.

So many factors were invloved in the breakup that we will never know them all. We see little hints in some interviews with the varioius members, JY being the most outspoken and, it is easily seen, bitter and jealous of Dennis for probably a host of reasons.

Tommy and Dennis are far more circumspect in their interviews.

The fact that the group could keep the name, use the DeYoung hits, and be able to tour with different members somewhat successfully, as Adam stated, simply cemented the break and left things as they are now.

Dennis seems to be more comfortable year by year doing the solo thing, but he is well aware he has to use the band's name and the songs he wrote for the band to draw certain people to his shows in the first place.

I am one (probably in the minority here) who would have preferred that Dennis remain a solo artist in the early 80's and had worked to promote himself as such. I think, with the right promotion, and a few tours, he could have established himself successfully apart from the band, a la Phil Collins or Sting. But he didn't and the road traveled, bumpy and full of twists and turns, is the one all of them took to land them in the here and now.

This did not help much at all as to why they split so acrimoniously, but it is my take on it. I am certain that personality differences, and the music /touring direction was a huge part of it, but there is much more we will never know.

I'll shut up now!

Bugsy

[sadie65]

I have to agree that much of what occured in the split isn't known. And people in general put their emotions in the way.

I think that each man in that band developed their own idea of what the band was and what they wanted it to be. And each man's vision was different than the others.

I myself, like Bugsy, do not want Dennis to return to the band. I think they have such different approachs and attitudes, it wouldn't be in their best interest to put them together.

I think each man could have handled the split much better. I think fans became divided, are still divided, and that when this was all happening, the fans were the least thought about. And, I suppose, all that does, is make them human. They thought of themselves first.

I just wish that after 6 years, the division between the fans could be let go. Just as I wish the veiled and not so veiled comments by band members would stop. But it's not going to change in the foreseeable future.

Sadie

[Hippie]

Ok. Here’s my two cents on the subject.

From what I’ve seen, everyone was hyped about the Brave New World Tour. Then DeYoung tried to slam the breaks on it. This was apparently due to illness. The rest of the band wanted to go on tour, so they brought in Gowen as a temp. However, when they got out from under DDY’s control, Shaw & Young decided they liked the band better w/out. So DDY was officially ousted.

There had always been a long struggle between the camps of DDY and Shaw/JY. And as time went by DeYoung became more and more controlling. This can be seen in the later releases. Notice the CD’s went from saying “Produced by Styx” to “Produces by Dennis DeYoung”. He dragged the band kicking and screaming into this grand concept album (Kilroy) which even DDY admits in retrospect was a bad idea. They finally reunite and what does DDY do? Drags them into yet another even more obscure concept album!

The split had been a long time coming. The band had actually ousted DDY before, back in ’79. They just couldn’t find anyone to replace him. This time they found someone they click with. There is a noticeable cohesion with the current line-up both on stage and in the studio. They’re clearly having a blast up on stage. And Cyclorama—to me—is the most “Styx” sounding CD they’ve done in years!

And really, both camps got what they wanted. Now DDY is free to have the “Dennis DeYoung Show”; where it’s all his music with back-up singers and orchestra and huge stage production which is what he wanted. Styx is free to be an Arena Rock band; playing festivals, going all over the world and generally having a good time which is what they wanted.

I’m as big a DeYoung fan as they come, but I think the split was good for both sides.
_______
Hippie

[sadie65]

[
There had always been a long struggle between the camps of DDY and Shaw/JY. And as time went by DeYoung became more and more controlling. This can be seen in the later releases. Notice the CD’s went from saying “Produced by Styx” to “Produces by Dennis DeYoung”. He dragged the band kicking and screaming into this grand concept album (Kilroy) which even DDY admits in retrospect was a bad idea. They finally reunite and what does DDY do? Drags them into yet another even more obscure concept album!



Well I don't think BNW was a concept album, and it certainly wasn't his concept. And that's all I'm going to get into with this one.

Peace,

Sadie

[Hippie]

Well I don't think BNW was a concept album, and it certainly wasn't his concept. And that's all I'm going to get into with this one.

That was actually right from the horse's mouth. Back when BMW first came out, DeYoung himself posted on the Official Styx site of the time that his idea was to do a musical representation of Aldous Huxley's novel, Brave New World.

Great idea for an album, but I think the general public missed it. Most hardcore Styx fans I've talked to didn't pick up on that theme with BNW. I don't think I would have either if I hadn't read DeYoung's post.

_______
Hippie

[froy]

Ok. Here’s my two cents on the subject.

From what I’ve seen, everyone was hyped about the Brave New World Tour. Then DeYoung tried to slam the breaks on it. This was apparently due to illness. The rest of the band wanted to go on tour, so they brought in Gowen as a temp. However, when they got out from under DDY’s control, Shaw & Young decided they liked the band better w/out. So DDY was officially ousted.

There is much more to it than that
Shaw and JY did not want to pay Dennis to produce BNW so they did it with a inexpensive producer, Dennis hated the cd all the way around
His songs were not great and the cd was produced badly
Add to it the 500 thousand he would not split from the VW commercial and you have the makings of a huge problem.

There had always been a long struggle between the camps of DDY and Shaw/JY. And as time went by DeYoung became more and more controlling.

Thank god for that.
You can see what this band is worth with Shaw and JY at the controls
There airport bound.
Think about it they have done 600 shows in 5 years and there no more popular than when they started without Dennis who ever is in control is FOOLING THEMSELVES,

This can be seen in the later releases. Notice the CD’s went from saying “Produced by Styx” to “Produces by Dennis DeYoung”. He dragged the band kicking and screaming into this grand concept album (Kilroy) which even DDY admits in retrospect was a bad idea. They finally reunite and what does DDY do? Drags them into yet another even more obscure concept album!

I will tell ya what I will take Kilroy any day of the week over whats going on now. Dennis was a great producer and that is so very important.

The split had been a long time coming. The band had actually ousted DDY before, back in ’79. They just couldn’t find anyone to replace him. This time they found someone they click with

.

He may click with them but he does not click with anyone else especially the fans.

There is a noticeable cohesion with the current line-up both on stage and in the studio. They’re clearly having a blast up on stage. And Cyclorama—to me—is the most “Styx” sounding CD they’ve done in years!

Only 30 thousand people agree with you

I’m as big a DeYoung fan as they come, but I think the split was good for both sides.

Its not both sides thats important its the fans remember that.
Look at the Buzz Steve Perry caused by showing up at the HWOF.
Rumors all over the place that he wants back in
If it happened the FANS would love it
THE FANS are the ones who are split not the band members.
THe fans deserve the real STYX band not this dirty looking group of guys

_______
Hippie

[sadie65]

Well I don't think BNW was a concept album, and it certainly wasn't his concept. And that's all I'm going to get into with this one.

That was actually right from the horse's mouth. Back when BMW first came out, DeYoung himself posted on the Official Styx site of the time that his idea was to do a musical representation of Aldous Huxley's novel, Brave New World.

Great idea for an album, but I think the general public missed it. Most hardcore Styx fans I've talked to didn't pick up on that theme with BNW. I don't think I would have either if I hadn't read DeYoung's post.

_______
Hippie

Kinda funny when you consider in interviews that it was Tommy saying he had read the book and wanted to make the cd. Perhaps they both had the idea.

Peace,

Sadie

[yogi]

If you really want the TRUTH about what happened, I would suggest you send Froy a private E-mail.

He's doing alot of yard work around the Deyoung household this weekend so I suggest you E-mail him Monday!! I read Dennis just purchased a new St. Bernard.

' And every Saturday we work in the yard, pick up the dog poop, hope that its hard'

[Ash]

I think it would be TRULY funny if the DDY decided not to split the $500,000 from the VW commercial with the guys in the band. To think that Tommy, JY and whoever can slam that song and that album for a decade and then when DDY gets a big payday off it to demand a cut.

If that is true (and I have no way of knowing if it really is) then it's just poetic justice and may explain why some in the current lineup like to slam it all the time.

[Adam]

FROY: Shaw and JY did not want to pay Dennis to produce BNW so they did it with a inexpensive producer

ADAM: Okay, if that’s so, another perspective OF THAT VERY SAME SCENARIO is that Dennis demanded a high fee to Produce the album. For a number of reasons that would be a bad decision for the rest of the band:
A) History: Most of the glory days Styx albums were Produced by Styx. As they became more and more successful, DeYoung renegotiated to become the band’s Producer. So, he became the band’s leader (dictator?), made most of the publishing money for writing the singles, as Producer ended up CHOOSING what songs were recorded, AND received not only a Producer’s fee, but very likely a higher percentage of record profits for this.
B) History: The one Styx album DeYoung Produced wasn’t all that. They might’ve paid him more than the album made back. By a number of accounts he’s an extravagant guy in the studio. Why did they need to pay him more again?
C) Time: Styx was clearly passed their peak. They were no longer on the big clock with a giant like A&M Records. You can be sure the record budget for Brave New World was a fraction of the previous studio albums.
D) History: As leader Dennis dragged the band into good AND bad. But the bad was the Kilroy concept album. Think of THIS: the opening movie cost a small fortune. Who paid for THAT? Dennis? No. They probably shared the costly endeavor. Then he demanded a Theatre tour (less profitable) playing a show that forced the audience to watch some kinda dramatic experiment of DeYoung’s. As they became more and more successful, DeYoung’s adamant ideas became more & more expensive and risky.
E) History: And this is important. At the same time the Styx album which was Produced by DeYoung was released, Shaw released an album with another band, which – like it or not – was much more successful than Edge Of The Century.

FROY ON BNW: Dennis hated the cd all the way around His songs were not great and the cd was produced badly

ADAM: And the album that Tommy Shaw that released right around the same time as DeYoung’s Edge Of The Century Production…the album that outsold Edge Of The Century…was called Damn Yankees. And Damn Yankees was Produced by Ron Nevison…the same guy who mixed Brave New World. (Perhaps Froy isn’t impressed with Nevison, but he engineered The Who's Quadrophenia, Bad Company's debut, and Led Zeppelin’s Physical Graffiti before moving on to Produce The Babys, Jefferson Starship, Survivor, Heart, Ozzy, Chicago, Kiss, Joe Cocker, Candlebox, Meat Loaf, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Night Ranger, Bad English, and Firehouse…)

I say if the Production was bad on Brave New World, it was just as much DeYoung’s fault as anyone.

FROY: Think about it they have done 600 shows in 5 years and there no more popular than when they started without Dennis who ever is in control is FOOLING THEMSELVES,

ADAM: Does Froy really believe that Styx would be embraced by the contemporary record buying public? Like, the kids who are buying Emenem and watching American Idol?

FROY: He may click with them but he does not click with anyone else especially the fans.

ADAM: Spoken by someone who hasn’t caught this guy live. Froy, the audience LOVES Gowan.

FROY’S REACTION TO “I’m as big a DeYoung fan as they come, but I think the split was good for both sides”: Its not both sides thats important its the fans remember that.

Hence, Froy doesn’t care if his heroes are MISERABLE, just as longf as WE’RE happy. Silly selfishness. Not to mention unrealistic.

FROY: Look at the Buzz Steve Perry caused by showing up at the HWOF.
Rumors all over the place that he wants back in

ADAM: First I’ve heard of it. (Besides, Perry and DeYoung both suffer from the same ailment: LEAD SINGER’S DISEASE.)

[DarrenUK]

BRAVE NEW WORLD concept was Tommy,s and not DDY,s idea. Sadie is right on that...how do i know ? He told me during an hour long interview he done with me just after the release of the CD.

Lisa has a copy of the interview which was shown on the website www.hardroxx.com which is now a defunct site, so the only way i can show the interview to anyone is if my baby gets it on disc for me...

[Hippie]

BRAVE NEW WORLD concept was Tommy,s and not DDY,s idea. Sadie is right on that...how do i know ? He told me during an hour long interview he done with me just after the release of the CD.

News to me. I stand corrected.

ADAM: First I’ve heard of it. (Besides, Perry and DeYoung both suffer from the same ailment: LEAD SINGER’S DISEASE.)

AAAAAAAAAAAmen Adam!!!! I take the same stance on Journey too!

There's no "I" in team. And that's what these singers forget sometimes!

________
Hippie

[classicstyxfan]

Hey Leesa,

So after reading all this, do you feel like you know what happened ? if so, which of the versions presented here are you inclined to believe ?

My version is, he is not in the band any more due to losing a struggle over: 1. Power and 2. Money. any of the previous replys here can be boiled down into either #1 or #2.

Aren't you glad you asked ?

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Here's part of an interview Dennis did with a magazine regarding "Brave New World"

Brave New World is very much a tale of two cities. DeYoung produced his
five songs here in Chicago, while Shaw and Young twisted knobs for their
tracks in Los Angeles with the help of Damn Yankees producer, Ron Nevison.


The lush harmonies inherent to older Styx recordings are watered down and
weak-kneed. The album lacks the cohesiveness that in the past has enabled a
Styx album flow well, despite its many styles and textures. Without that
special 'glue' holding the tracks together, Brave New World sounds like a
haphazard collection of left overs rather than a thought-out and carefully
assembled project.


"All I can say about it (Brave New World), is that it's an album of
missed opportunities," said DeYoung. "It could have and would have been a
great Styx record, but I was shut out of everything. I was not allowed any
input at all into the final tracks, the sequencing, or the album artwork."
Touching upon the bland design on the album makes DeYoung livid. "Isn't that
just about the ugliest album you have ever seen?," he asks. "I don't even
want to go there. Don't get me started on the album's artwork."


DeYoung likewise divorces himself from much of the project. "All I can
say, is that if you don't like my five songs, than blame me. But everything
else on that record I really had no involvement with," he said. "All the
performances you hear on the songs that JY and Tommy did, I heard for the
very first time about two weeks before the record came out. That's why I
insisted that asterisks be placed in the production credits on the songs I
did, because I had absolutely nothing to do with any of their songs and I
wanted the fans to know that."

Darren, I hope your "baby", I mean Lisa can get a copy of your interview and put it on a cd

As for the contracts regarding the business of the band Styx, each member signed the contracts!! If any of those members didn't like what was written, they could have walked away. I don't recall any member was "forced" to sign something they didn't want to sign.

The "glory" days of Styx, you mean everything before Equinox?

Here is his quote from the interview on Melodic Rock with Andrew:

I have produced every album since Equinox, even though it said Styx. I was the producer.
I was the guy that brought all those 3 styles together and made those records sound like it was the same band doing them. On this album though you will notice it's the first album that hasn't been produced by me.
I'm telling you since Equinox.

I personally think he's a GREAT producer. I think his albums that he produced did pretty good, if I'm not mistaken.

[Hippie]

"All I can say about it (Brave New World), is that it's an album of
missed opportunities," said DeYoung. "It could have and would have been a great Styx record, but I was shut out of everything. I was not allowed any input at all into the final tracks, the sequencing, or the album artwork." Touching upon the bland design on the album makes DeYoung livid. "Isn't that just about the ugliest album you have ever seen?," he asks. "I don't even want to go there. Don't get me started on the album's artwork."

DeYoung likewise divorces himself from much of the project. "All I can
say, is that if you don't like my five songs, than blame me. But everything
else on that record I really had no involvement with," he said. "All the
performances you hear on the songs that JY and Tommy did, I heard for the very first time about two weeks before the record came out. That's why I insisted that asterisks be placed in the production credits on the songs I did, because I had absolutely nothing to do with any of their songs and I wanted the fans to know that."

So the guy who has singlehandedly produced every album since Equinox and (according to VH1 Behind the Music) was given absolute veto power on all band decisions just stood on the sidelines and let BNW be produced w/out any input from him?

I find that a little hard to swallow!

_______
Hippie

[Ash]

I wonder if any act today wanted to make an album with the Styx sound if he would work with them to produce it in the same manner.

The result of that would be interesting to say the least.

[sadie65]

"All I can say about it (Brave New World), is that it's an album of
missed opportunities," said DeYoung. "It could have and would have been a great Styx record, but I was shut out of everything. I was not allowed any input at all into the final tracks, the sequencing, or the album artwork." Touching upon the bland design on the album makes DeYoung livid. "Isn't that just about the ugliest album you have ever seen?," he asks. "I don't even want to go there. Don't get me started on the album's artwork."

DeYoung likewise divorces himself from much of the project. "All I can
say, is that if you don't like my five songs, than blame me. But everything
else on that record I really had no involvement with," he said. "All the
performances you hear on the songs that JY and Tommy did, I heard for the very first time about two weeks before the record came out. That's why I insisted that asterisks be placed in the production credits on the songs I did, because I had absolutely nothing to do with any of their songs and I wanted the fans to know that."

So the guy who has singlehandedly produced every album since Equinox and (according to VH1 Behind the Music) was given absolute veto power on all band decisions just stood on the sidelines and let BNW be produced w/out any input from him?

I find that a little hard to swallow!

_______
Hippie

Um noooo....he was a little sick at the time as well. And to be fair, the other members of the band weren't necessarily going to do things the same way as before.

No doubt Dennis was controlling at times, but to say he just let something happen is naive.

No one in the band, past or present, just lets something happen. They decide each time what is best for them to do. This time, they went in a different direction.

I happen to like his production skills, but I think, as several others here have pointed out, times change, people change, tastes change. No matter who produced (s) them, it is doubtful the band would have any any huge resurgence of glory.

Let's just be happy that each "side" is still performing and entertaining us.

Peace,

Sadie

[Abitaman]

[quote]I happen to like his production skills, but I think, as several others here have pointed out, times change, people change, tastes change.

Agreed, I think Dennis is a talented producer. One of the few things I didn't like about the last studio cd, was the sound of the production. Everything sound as if it was recorded loud. Even the slow songs. Dennis' sound was more spacious, where this last was more cluttered.-ERIC

[froy]

I think it would be TRULY funny if the DDY decided not to split the $500,000 from the VW commercial with the guys in the band. To think that Tommy, JY and whoever can slam that song and that album for a decade and then when DDY gets a big payday off it to demand a cut.

If that is true (and I have no way of knowing if it really is) then it's just poetic justice and may explain why some in the current lineup like to slam it all the time.

Its absolutly true I have it from the cousins horses mouth.
If ya know what I mean,.

[froy]

So the guy who has singlehandedly produced every album since Equinox and (according to VH1 Behind the Music) was given absolute veto power on all band decisions just stood on the sidelines and let BNW be produced w/out any input from him?

I find that a little hard to swallow!

If your sick and exhusted like Dennis was and his father just passed away maybe there's not much he could do.

_______
Hippie[/quote]

[froy]

ADAM:

Notice ya never get a reply from anyone here Adam?
Are you really that clueless that you can't figure out how to use the quotes feature?

1 time only
Right click the phrase when its blue hit quote on the top and then respond underneath

Like this

See easy
Try it

[Andrew]

Calm it down folks....this topic was doomed from the start.

[Abitaman]

[ [/quote]

[Abitaman]

1 time only
Right click the phrase when its blue hit quote on the top and then respond underneath

Like that?

[Abitaman]

1 time only
Right click the phrase when its blue hit quote on the top and then respond underneath

3rd try, did work?