Isn't It Ironic

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Postby gr8dane » Thu May 26, 2005 8:53 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:DeeJayStyx says:

I believe that deep down in their heart of hearts that JY, Tommy, and Dennis truely believe that Grand Illusion was by far the best Styx album ever released no matter how they promote other albums.....


Yes, you're right.

Dennis and JY have said numerous times in interviews that "Grand Illusion" was the best album that they all worked on together. I'm sure Tommy said it too in interviews, but I can't recall which interviews off-hand.

They were all in the studio working TOGETHER on this album. They wrote the songs TOGETHER


Yes,that was one of things mentioned in Classic Rock April issue.
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Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Thu May 26, 2005 8:58 pm

styxfanNH says:

Dennis' last solo studio album came out almost 11 years ago, he plays nothing off that album. His album before that one came out 4 years earlier or fifteen years ago and he plays nothing off that. Even his last Styx album he doesn't play a single song from. And I think everyone agrees that Roseland is a great song.


Obviously you're not on any Dennis Yahoo groups or message boards to read the set-lists from any of his concerts.

In 2004-2005 he has been mixing up his set-lists at concerts city to city and will continue to do so through the end of the year. He has included "Desert Moon", "Harry's Hands", "Black Wall" and like Sadie said "Hello God" to his concerts. He has even added "My God......" to one or two. I wouldn't be surprised if he added a brand new one that he has finished and ready to go. Oh and it's a rockin' song too!

As for Kilroy vs. Cyclocrapa, I'll take Kilroy over it any day.

styxfanNH says:

No apology here. The stuff on Cyclorama is some of the best stuff they have produced in years. And there is no way peeps from the "Dennis is Styx" fan club would ever give it its due.

Words like greatest, best, worst are words that are up to personal interpretation. They're qualitative words. Just because you dismiss them doesn't mean you are right. I'm a realist opposed to someone that refuses to take they're head out of the sand and appreciate good music for what it is. Good music.


No apology here either. Speaking from a "peep from the Dennis is Styx" fan club, if that crappy album was good I would give it it's due. To me it was a crappy album. There was only one song that was okay, it's the one that sounds just like "Winter's Call" from Badlands, I don't know the name of it. That's my opinion.

As for BBT, the only song that was okay was "Can't Find My Way Home".
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Postby bugsymalone » Thu May 26, 2005 10:45 pm

peeps from the "Dennis is Styx" fan club would ever give it its due.


From one "Dennis DeYoung is Styx" fan, Cyclorama, while neither good nor bad, simply proves that point.

My original comment has been sort of lost on here (so what else is new :roll: ).

What I was trying to say is, with a new setlist right now, which will include BBT songs, why is not one single song from "the best lineup ever's" only album of original material not included? That is the only point I was trying to make.

What Dennis does, or does not, perform live has no bearing on what I was talking about here. He pretty much draws from the whole catalog -- Classic Styx, Early Styx, and solo -- at his shows.

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Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Thu May 26, 2005 10:47 pm

Bugsy says:

My original comment has been sort of lost on here (so what else is new ).


No kidding, hey? :wink:

Bugsy says:

What Dennis does, or does not, perform live has no bearing on what I was talking about here. He pretty much draws from the whole catalog -- Classic Styx, Early Styx, and solo -- at his shows.


Yep, a whole variety and then some :)
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Postby Guest » Thu May 26, 2005 11:58 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:As for Kilroy vs. Cyclocrapa, I'll take Kilroy over it any day.


Kilroy is a far superior album... no doubt about that.

Secretly, all these people that gush over Cyclorama know Kilroy is better, but their pride won't let them admit it.

Kilroy is a substantial piece of work that is not all that far removed from the classic Styx sound.

It also has the signature Styx sound of chief Styx architect Mr. Dennis DeYoung. That alone makes it superior.

'Nuff said.
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Postby sadie65 » Fri May 27, 2005 12:10 am

bugsymalone wrote:
peeps from the "Dennis is Styx" fan club would ever give it its due.


From one "Dennis DeYoung is Styx" fan, Cyclorama, while neither good nor bad, simply proves that point.

My original comment has been sort of lost on here (so what else is new :roll: ).

What I was trying to say is, with a new setlist right now, which will include BBT songs, why is not one single song from "the best lineup ever's" only album of original material not included? That is the only point I was trying to make.

What Dennis does, or does not, perform live has no bearing on what I was talking about here. He pretty much draws from the whole catalog -- Classic Styx, Early Styx, and solo -- at his shows.

Bugsy


I'm totally guessing here, but I'd bet they are taking out Cyclorama songs simply to promote Big Bang. As for Europe, it's doubtful they'd include them because it's doubtful the majority of whose going to see them over there even knows of Cyclo.

I'm not a "Dennis IS Styx" person, but I do know that marketing to your audience is a tricky business. And since I don't attend their shows, I guess I couldn't honestly say if their decision making process is correct or not.

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Postby Adam » Fri May 27, 2005 12:23 am

Here's the m.o. of a recording act: release a record, tour to promote the band AND the new disc. In order to do so, the band almost always performs the new single(s), careful not to over-challenge the old fans of previous work, they play their old hits.

What Styx is presently doing is promoting their latest release. They want this to reach maximum sales potential, so they'll be given more times up at bat, bigger budgets, etc. Grant it, they play it pretty safe under the Tommy/JY regime, but understandably so, given their age and the amount of resistance the band has been experiencing (for YEARS I might add).

And, by the way, pronouncing what is "significant" is a foolish comment. Who says what is significant when it comes to music? Oyis Redding might not matter to you, but he's very important to others, for instance. "Goodbye To Roseland" may be an extremely important song to some, while it simply DOES NOT EXIST in contemporary pop music.

And Mozart died peniless. Van Gough was a failure in his own time. ALOT OF PEOPLE made those two appear "insignificant" once, and now they endure (by the way. alot longer than Styx music ever will).
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Postby Guest » Fri May 27, 2005 12:46 am

Adam wrote:And, by the way, pronouncing what is "significant" is a foolish comment. Who says what is significant when it comes to music? Oyis Redding might not matter to you, but he's very important to others, for instance. "Goodbye To Roseland" may be an extremely important song to some, while it simply DOES NOT EXIST in contemporary pop music.


I didn't even bring up "Goodbye To Roseland", nor did I call it "significant".

Get a clue.

Significant: KILROY WAS HERE

Not Significant: Cyclorama & Big Bang Theory

And Mozart died peniless. Van Gough was a failure in his own time. ALOT OF PEOPLE made those two appear "insignificant" once, and now they endure (by the way. alot longer than Styx music ever will).


This is how you try to explain away the trainwreck that Styx has become?

Laughable.
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Postby Monker » Fri May 27, 2005 3:59 am

It is unusual to not have the CD listed on there new disc that is what Bugs was getting at.


You're wrong...and you are too def dum and blined to realise it.

Your right they can't form a new legacy they have ruined the old one now its just play and get paid.


Styx is Styx and it is ALL their legacy whether you like it or not.

No they are going to concentrate of the future at the expense of the Beatles past and The Who's past and Tulls past.


I see. So, by covering songs, Styx is ruining the legacy of the bands they cover. At least "froy logic" is consistant...consistantly illogical and wrong.


> That would be stoopid.

You just made my case.


I have to type in froy-speak so you'll understand.

The Lost Treasures is the best STYX concert I have seen in 8 years.
Of course you have not seen it but you know all about it,


why not? You haven't seen a Styx concert in at least six years but you know all about those.

The bottom line is that "Lost Treasure" is, BY DEFINITION, living off the past...milking the Styx name and Dennis' history with the band for all it can give.

They have had 6 years to build for the future


Every time they release an album like Cyclorama or BBT they are able to move forward with new songs, put effort into getting on the radio, be able to not totaly rely on their past to keep them going.

At least they are not stagnant and unable to put out new product...as Journey has been for years.

So far they have lost 1 member who blasted them for over touring


I wouldn't say Burtnik 'blasted' them. His reasons for leaving were reasonable - and it was not JUST touring. Styx reasons for why they tour so much are ALSO reasonable. So, there are differences that were dealt with by Burtnik leaving.

Now we have a cover cd


And, it's a damn good one that has had a lot of airplay and charted.

Thats not a bright future at all


That's because you wear shades, or blinders.

They have been doing 75 percent of the same for 6 years and it won't change


You're wrong.

Lady Sail Blue Renegade Miss and Hands and 5 covers and that's your great STYX band.


And, I have not seen them perform Suite Maddame blue, or Miss America...So, it seems to me that out of the first six songs 1/3 would be new. Out of the set YOU list about %63 would be new to me.

So, you must be as good at math as you are at grammar and spelling.

Lost Treasures puts that to bed.


Dennis without the band Styx puts many people to sleep.

There should be no latest album even though there is no such thing as an album.


first of all, that centense makes no cents. Secondly, just because it's not vinyl doesn't mean it's not an album. Records are no longer made, albums are and always have been.

The idea was terrible from the get go


And, they made it work anyway...putting Styx on the radio, and Billboard.

Thank God we had those awesome 2120 sessions
The band really made headway there.


You are exactly right.

Im sure all Styx fans can't wait to hear Summer in the City live


I'd love to. I'd love to hear Doctor and Salty dog too, and of course Walrus.

There won't be anyone left by then/ :


You've been saying that for years...and every year you are just as wrong as ever.

They give us Gowan thats something for know one.


Whatever. You make know cents. I guess it takes a Froy to no a Froy.

Thats Shaw and Young and your right they don't care what anyone thinks


Why should they care what you think when you will never go to a concert or buy an album? Why should they care about people like you when they have OTHER fans who DO go to the concert and DO buy the albums?
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Postby styxfanNH » Fri May 27, 2005 4:04 am

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:styxfanNH says:

Dennis' last solo studio album came out almost 11 years ago, he plays nothing off that album. His album before that one came out 4 years earlier or fifteen years ago and he plays nothing off that. Even his last Styx album he doesn't play a single song from. And I think everyone agrees that Roseland is a great song.


Obviously you're not on any Dennis Yahoo groups or message boards to read the set-lists from any of his concerts.

In 2004-2005 he has been mixing up his set-lists at concerts city to city and will continue to do so through the end of the year. He has included "Desert Moon", "Harry's Hands", "Black Wall" and like Sadie said "Hello God" to his concerts. He has even added "My God......" to one or two. I wouldn't be surprised if he added a brand new one that he has finished and ready to go. Oh and it's a rockin' song too!

As for Kilroy vs. Cyclocrapa, I'll take Kilroy over it any day.

styxfanNH says:

No apology here. The stuff on Cyclorama is some of the best stuff they have produced in years. And there is no way peeps from the "Dennis is Styx" fan club would ever give it its due.

Words like greatest, best, worst are words that are up to personal interpretation. They're qualitative words. Just because you dismiss them doesn't mean you are right. I'm a realist opposed to someone that refuses to take they're head out of the sand and appreciate good music for what it is. Good music.


No apology here either. Speaking from a "peep from the Dennis is Styx" fan club, if that crappy album was good I would give it it's due. To me it was a crappy album. There was only one song that was okay, it's the one that sounds just like "Winter's Call" from Badlands, I don't know the name of it. That's my opinion.

As for BBT, the only song that was okay was "Can't Find My Way Home".


And it never had a chance with you Suite.

You're right, I don't belong to a Dennis yahoo group. And if he is changing his set up that's great. But I am still waiting for this "soon to be released" album. To say it rocks is one thing, to hear it rock is another. Actually I will see him on the 24th. Hope he rocks more then than the last time I saw him or maybe we just have a different definition of Rock.

Throw all the names you want at Styx and their music. Again no one on this forum will change their minds about anyone elses post. We are all here to just amuse ourselves.
Last edited by styxfanNH on Fri May 27, 2005 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kansas666 » Fri May 27, 2005 4:31 am

swwskj wrote:I don't think Dennis thought that musically Kilroy was a bad idea.


Well, there is no accounting for taste. :roll:
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Postby DeeJaySTYX » Fri May 27, 2005 3:18 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:DeeJayStyx says:

I believe that deep down in their heart of hearts that JY, Tommy, and Dennis truely believe that Grand Illusion was by far the best Styx album ever released no matter how they promote other albums.....


Yes, you're right.

Dennis and JY have said numerous times in interviews that "Grand Illusion" was the best album that they all worked on together. I'm sure Tommy said it too in interviews, but I can't recall which interviews off-hand.

They were all in the studio working TOGETHER on this album. They wrote the songs TOGETHER


Thanks Suite... :)

When Dennis was here in Rockford he said that Grand Illusion was the quintessential Styx album, Tommy said on Behind The Music "We were a band, that was Styx at its finest", and I remember JY's face lit up when talking about the making of Grand Illusion during an interview....

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Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Fri May 27, 2005 11:52 pm

DeeJay - You're welcome :)

styxfanNH says:

And it never had a chance with you Suite.


It sure did have a chance with me. I received this cd for free and heard it quite a few times. There was one song that I thought was okay. Like I said before it's the song that sounded exactly like "Winter's Call" by Badlands, I don't know the name of the song. I also had to listen to the cd a few more times before I interviewed JY so I could talk about the cd. BBT had a chance with me too, but as I said before on numerous threads on here and I'll say it again, I didn't like any of the original songs to begin with - ACK. The only song that I do like is "Can't Find My Way Home", I like this version better than the original, but I like the House of Lords version better. I give every band and music a chance.

Hell, how many more chances to have to give to any line-up after Dennis was booted?????? Sheesh, I've seen them live 3 times and heard their crappy cd's numerous times.

You're right, I don't belong to a Dennis yahoo group. And if he is changing his set up that's great. But I am still waiting for this "soon to be released" album. To say it rocks is one thing, to hear it rock is another. Actually I will see him on the 24th. Hope he rocks more then than the last time I saw him or maybe we just have a different definition of Rock.


I think I have a different definition of "rock" music than everyone on this board - LOL Metallica plays "rock" music. I don't think the song "Crystal Ball" is "rock" music - LOL

Throw all the names you want at Styx and their music. Again no one on this forum will change their minds about anyone elses post. We are all here to just amuse ourselves.


Yes, I will throw all the names that I want at Carrot Styx and their music. I'm not going to be on here anymore and talk all nicey nice all the time. I posted many positive articles and other postings about Carrot Styx in the past. Most of the Anti-Dennis Yahoo's on here keep dissing Dennis and his music. Right, no one on this forum will change their minds about anyone elses posts.

Yep, this board is just for amusement.
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Postby Guest » Sat May 28, 2005 12:02 am

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Yes, I will throw all the names that I want at Carrot Styx and their music. I'm not going to be on here anymore and talk all nicey nice all the time. I posted many positive articles and other postings about Carrot Styx in the past. Most of the Anti-Dennis Yahoo's on here keep dissing Dennis and his music. Right, no one on this forum will change their minds about anyone elses posts


Exactly. The double standards around here are appalling. I remember when I first came on here and posted some positive stuff about Dennis and got slammed with one sarcastic comment after another.
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Postby Adam » Sat May 28, 2005 12:18 am

It just occurred to me that, being how there is an arc in most relationships, the 2nd Styx lineup (Shaw's entrance) probably peaked in terms of balance and collaboration during the Grand Illusion album.

After years of work, attempting to attain a certain degree of success (creatively as well as commercially), Styx found their "groove". After that, under the pressure of topping themselves, they continued making strong music for a while BUT I bet the personalities and the balance began to morph, which led to it spinning out of control eventually.

Kilroy broke the bank AND the proverbial camel's back. By most accounts, Shaw was living the out of control rockstar life -ie self-destructive indulgences- and DeYoung had become overbearing to his bandmates.

Balance is everything, or almost everything, and the Kilroy project seems to have been excess. After that, the "Classic" lineup was pretty much over, with a lovely swan song in the mid 90s, but the relationship was past it's peak. These boys had grown into men. Successful, maturing -ie less flexible- men.

That's my take, particularly after reading these earlier posts mentioning how DeYoung, Shaw & JY felt about Grand Illusion. Not only was that their refining moment creatively together, it was also their most in balance personal moment. Once that started changing, the end of that line up was inevitable. Enter Burtnik, Sucherman, Gowan and Phillips, as well as Horton and Dawn-Marie.
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Postby bugsymalone » Sat May 28, 2005 12:34 am

Not really anything to do with this original thread, but that was a good post Adam.

I do agree that most bands have this one slam-bang perfect time that produces one slam-bang perfect recording. And after that, it all seems to go south.

In the rarest of instances, groups can sometimes go through the bad times and get back to the good times and maybe lightning strikes again. But that is so rare it is almost non-existant.

Styx falls into the category of greatness that just fell apart for a myriad of reasons. I don't care how many people come in and out of the lineup. And how much they tout that they are the best lineup ever, they will NEVER achieve the perfection of The Grand Illusion.

And the closest thing to a great performer/voice left from all of this is, in my opinion, Dennis DeYoung.

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Postby sadie65 » Sat May 28, 2005 12:37 am

Adam wrote:It just occurred to me that, being how there is an arc in most relationships, the 2nd Styx lineup (Shaw's entrance) probably peaked in terms of balance and collaboration during the Grand Illusion album.

After years of work, attempting to attain a certain degree of success (creatively as well as commercially), Styx found their "groove". After that, under the pressure of topping themselves, they continued making strong music for a while BUT I bet the personalities and the balance began to morph, which led to it spinning out of control eventually.

Kilroy broke the bank AND the proverbial camel's back. By most accounts, Shaw was living the out of control rockstar life -ie self-destructive indulgences- and DeYoung had become overbearing to his bandmates.

Balance is everything, or almost everything, and the Kilroy project seems to have been excess. After that, the "Classic" lineup was pretty much over, with a lovely swan song in the mid 90s, but the relationship was past it's peak. These boys had grown into men. Successful, maturing -ie less flexible- men.

That's my take, particularly after reading these earlier posts mentioning how DeYoung, Shaw & JY felt about Grand Illusion. Not only was that their refining moment creatively together, it was also their most in balance personal moment. Once that started changing, the end of that line up was inevitable. Enter Burtnik, Sucherman, Gowan and Phillips, as well as Horton and Dawn-Marie.


Funny...I've been saying this for quite some time now.

And life goes on.
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Postby bugsymalone » Sat May 28, 2005 12:43 am

Funny...I've been saying this for quite some time now.


And apparently no one ever listens because you are from the "wrong" side, I suppose. :roll:

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Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Sat May 28, 2005 12:56 am

Bugsy says:

And apparently no one ever listens because you are from the "wrong" side, I suppose.


No kidding!! :roll:

Hey Bugsy, we're not the ones from the "wrong" side - LOL
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Postby Zan » Sat May 28, 2005 1:21 am

I've never seen so many victims in one place in my life. Good grief. Why don't you all take a Pamprin and watch "Steel Magnolias" or something.
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Postby styxfanNH » Sat May 28, 2005 1:47 am

Styx falls into the category of greatness that just fell apart for a myriad of reasons. I don't care how many people come in and out of the lineup. And how much they tout that they are the best lineup ever, they will NEVER achieve the perfection of The Grand Illusion.

And the closest thing to a great performer/voice left from all of this is, in my opinion, Dennis DeYoung.

Bugsy


Grand Illusion was the pinacle of the band, with follow up albums that were close.

The thing is the three of them are all great performers/voices.

and i will give you the "best line-up ever" line should never have been used. its one of those, "ok to think, but not ok to say publicly."

And with all the changes in this lineup, the classic lineup will always be the best. But this incarnation of the band, ain't bad either.
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Postby sadie65 » Sat May 28, 2005 1:47 am

Zan wrote:I've never seen so many victims in one place in my life. Good grief. Why don't you all take a Pamprin and watch "Steel Magnolias" or something.


Sure you have...check out any Britney concert.

And I think I'll pass on your recommendation. I've never really liked the movie version of Steel Magnolias. But by all means...enjoy.
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Postby bugsymalone » Sat May 28, 2005 1:48 am

I've never seen so many victims in one place in my life. Good grief. Why don't you all take a Pamprin and watch "Steel Magnolias" or something.


BooHoo! Nobody loves us, everybody hates us! :cry:

Oh...the Pink One has spoken. Thanks ever so much for that advice. It kept me from throwing myself off a cliff.

Off to find the pills and the movie now...... :roll:

:wink:

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Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Sat May 28, 2005 1:56 am

Bugsy says:

BooHoo! Nobody loves us, everybody hates us!


Hey, I love you guys, you're awesome!! :D


Off to find the pills and the movie now......


I'll pass on the movie too with Sadie. My little one has Star Wars V on now. I'll pass on the Pamprin too, I'm in search for a much needed Midol and a Mountain Dew, but thanks for the suggestion - LOL :wink:
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Postby Zan » Sat May 28, 2005 2:40 am

bugsymalone wrote:BooHoo! Nobody loves us, everybody hates us! :cry:



From the "Everybody Loves Drama" LP:

"Don't you know by now that nobody listens to 'our' side? We've been saying that for years. You're only right if you support _______!"

"Oh, don't listen to those bad people. They're just bitter and immature. It's to be expected around here. They're not happy unless they're arguing. Me? I'm perfectly happy to slide in underhanded jabs then attach a smiley or winky face and run like hell...We know who's right, even if it isn't 'accepted' by the majority/minority. If only everyone were as mature as us..."

"I love you!"

"I love you too!"

*smoooch*



Oh...the Pink One has spoken. Thanks ever so much for that advice. It kept me from throwing myself off a cliff.




LOL The pink one. I wouldn't dream of you throwing yourself from a cliff. Standing on one pointing down at all those beneath you, maybe. But definitely not jumping! :-D



Off to find the pills and the movie now...... :roll:

:wink:



Funny how you assumed I was talking about you. :roll:

";-)"

I have read a zillion posts from both sides over the last few months that suggest everyone believes they are being victimized by the other side, and everyone loves to mention it - as often as humanly possible. LOL
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Postby Monker » Sat May 28, 2005 2:45 am

I've never seen so many victims in one place in my life.


You obviously have not spent much time reading Journey forums :D
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Postby Zan » Sat May 28, 2005 2:46 am

sadie65 wrote:
Zan wrote:I've never seen so many victims in one place in my life. Good grief. Why don't you all take a Pamprin and watch "Steel Magnolias" or something.


Sure you have...check out any Britney concert.



Like I said, "*I've* never seen so many victims in one place." Maybe you frequent Britney concerts, but I surely do not. :-D
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Postby Zan » Sat May 28, 2005 2:47 am

Monker wrote:
I've never seen so many victims in one place in my life.


You obviously have not spent much time reading Journey forums :D



And with a sales pitch like that, I think I'll leave it that way! :-D
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Postby sadie65 » Sat May 28, 2005 2:48 am

Zan wrote:
sadie65 wrote:
Zan wrote:I've never seen so many victims in one place in my life. Good grief. Why don't you all take a Pamprin and watch "Steel Magnolias" or something.


Sure you have...check out any Britney concert.



Like I said, "*I've* never seen so many victims in one place." Maybe you frequent Britney concerts, but I surely do not. :-D


Semantics eh? Okay...I'm sure you've participated in watching American Idol. Surely you aren't alone there. And yet...how many awful singers do you all subject yourself to in watching it. Rather a large victim group...perhaps a little masochistic as well ;) :lol: :wink: :lol:
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Postby bugsymalone » Sat May 28, 2005 3:04 am

"Oh, don't listen to those bad people. They're just bitter and immature. It's to be expected around here. They're not happy unless they're arguing. Me? I'm perfectly happy to slide in underhanded jabs then attach a smiley or winky face and run like hell...We know who's right, even if it isn't 'accepted' by the majority/minority. If only everyone were as mature as us..."


Oohh. Did I hurt someone's feelings with the winky/smiley? I guess I ran so fast I just ended up right here, again.

So sorry. I think instead of the movie and the pills, I will just cry in my beer.

Note -- no emoti-faces here. No dancing banana either.

Bugsy
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