One With Everything

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Postby styxfanNH » Sat May 28, 2005 11:23 am

Suite,

Without trying to make this a war any worse than what it is. You said
No... I come here to celebrate classic Styx and the great Dennis DeYoung.

People like you think because we're fans of the real band and don't accept this line-up that we have no right to be here. WRONG.



Here is where I believe we are the same and also how we differ. It is also how us wordsmiths use the words and start the flamethrowing.

Virtually everyone here fell in love with the music of Styx during the DDY years and credits him for what he brought to the table in voice, creativity and musicianship in the various roles he had.

There is a second group here that follows the band the way they are today and is glad to see them producing material today. True, its not what we call the classic line-up, but two of the three main players (four of five if you count Chuck) are continuing on with the spirit of the band in it's hey day.

The two incarnations are Styx. When you use words like "the real band" to designate the classic line-up, you are setting yourself up for someone to come back at you. Or when Gowan is said to be ruining Dennis' songs because he can't sing and the same would be said of anyone that sang lead on the songs Dennis wrote. One person doesn't make a band and a band is always a case where the sum of the parts is better than one individual.

I'll give you the fact that the way Dennis was tossed out of the band sucks. I believe as much as you do that Dennis was sick when he was let go.

I also believe that the classic lineup was really done before BNW came to be and the illness was used as an excuse by JY and Tommy when they decided they wanted to tour.

And I believe that JY is a jerk everytime he uses "the best lineup ever" line in an interview.

That being said it was the diversity in writing styles that brought me in part to Styx. And while I personally like the harder side of Styx, even from the classic lineup, I have always appreciated what Dennis brought to the band and his songs.

Maybe for me it is my decision to put the internal politics of the band aside and listen to the music for what it is. I try not to slam the musicians instead the idiocracy that some people make. Some of it is in fun, other times it is just to correct the record.

I'll see Dennis in a couple of weeks when he comes my way. I'll see him again when he's about two hours from here in the fall (Still on sale but not advertised). I like his music and will show my support. Just the same, I will see Styx when they are in the area three or four times and show my support for them as well.

We all can sit here and get ulcers over things that are out of our control, things that happened in the past, or we can just accept things the way they are and support whatever side or sides we choose. If it makes each of us feel better then so be it.

Maybe we can bring this back to the reality we had before March 28th when we just agreed to disagree and poked fun at what use to be. You know we use to like each other in here at one time, and we respected each others ability to have a differing point of view.
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Postby classicstyxfan » Sat May 28, 2005 11:33 am

Ahhhhhhhh, speak for yourself, I never liked any of you anyways !!!! :wink:
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Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Sat May 28, 2005 11:54 am

StyxfanNH, I copied and pasted what It'sMyLife said in response to what he said to Monker. I said that I agreed with what he said, that quote wasn't from me originally. But I still agree with him :)

Virtually everyone here fell in love with the music of Styx during the DDY years and credits him for what he brought to the table in voice, creativity and musicianship in the various roles he had.


Yes, I did fall in love with the music of Styx when Dennis was with the band and I totally agree with your quote here.

There is a second group here that follows the band the way they are today and is glad to see them producing material today. True, its not what we call the classic line-up, but two of the three main players (four of five if you count Chuck) are continuing on with the spirit of the band in it's hey day


That's great for the second group of people. I would totally be with both groups if Dennis left on his own and gave them his blessing. Just like when Tommy left. But as we know, that didn't happen and I'm very hurt and bitter how he was treated. He really hurts from what happened and what's being said, after all he's only human. When I talk to him I feel his pain. I bet any money that if any of you anti-Dennis people sat down and talked to him face to face you would see things different, totally different. When I talked to JY face to face, I saw him in a different light too. I look back at the interview I did with him and he was so happy talking about Grand Illusion and working on that album. There still was a positive spark there.

The two incarnations are Styx. When you use words like "the real band" to designate the classic line-up, you are setting yourself up for someone to come back at you. Or when Gowan is said to be ruining Dennis' songs because he can't sing and the same would be said of anyone that sang lead on the songs Dennis wrote. One person doesn't make a band and a band is always a case where the sum of the parts is better than one individual
.

Gowan, to me, is ruining Dennis' songs when he sings them. As I said in earlier posts, to me, no one can sing Dennis' songs, it just wouldn't be the same - except for the singer in the Styx tribute band "Light Up". I've said this for a few years now on this board. I personally don't care for Gowan's singing of any song. He's a very nice guy and I have nothing against him, I just don't care for his singing. To me, Dennis was the main ingredient of the band Styx.

And I believe that JY is a jerk everytime he uses "the best lineup ever" line in an interview.


JY's just promoting each current line-up, that's why he says that. I'm sure he didn't give Glen a big hug and kiss when he left the band. When they get another new person in the band, let's say in 2006, JY will claim that this is the best line-up ever. I wish he would be more positive in his interviews, he's so bitter and that's not good.

Maybe we can bring this back to the reality we had before March 28th when we just agreed to disagree and poked fun at what use to be. You know we use to like each other in here at one time, and we respected each others ability to have a differing point of view.


That would be nice. :)
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Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Sat May 28, 2005 11:56 am

Classic says:

Ahhhhhhhh, speak for yourself, I never liked any of you anyways !!!!


Hey that's not nice, we love you!!! :wink:

Classic are you going to see Dennis or Carrot Styx in Milwaukee this summer?
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Postby bugsymalone » Sat May 28, 2005 1:47 pm

I'm happy to see Dennis getting out there and touring, small venues or elaborate venues, so that the fans have more opportunities to see him while they can. Same goes for Styx.


I think about this a lot. How long will the voice hold out? How many more opportunites to see him and/or to see Styx??

Dennis carries the burden of a show on his shoulders now (and this is true of any solo act), but I am sure there are times he misses sharing the wealth of the vocals. He has talked about dreading singing some songs simply because of how difficult they are to sing.

How long will he be able to keep it up? Anyone's guess, but going to a concert and, hopefully, having some new music from both Dennis and from Current Styx are things I know all of us here appreciate more and more as each day goes by.

I, for one, hope we still get many chances before they all hang it up.

See....we can talk civilly when we want to, now can't we?

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Postby PsychoSy » Sat May 28, 2005 3:09 pm

Dennis couldn't have improved on One With Everything. In fact, the song didn't come about itself without Gowan playing the keyboard solos you hear in the song as a means of warming up during sound checks with Styx. After hearing Gowan warm up by playing this over and over, it grew on the rest of band and they felt it needed to be a full fledged song and got busy putting bass, guitar, drums and lyrics to the sucker. I believe that without Gowan in Styx, this excellent peice of work would not have existed at all in any shape or form so wondering how Dennis could've improved on it is rather moot -- he hasn't shown any inclination of playing prog-rock keyboard work of that calibre since the 1970s and the last really good keyboard solo by Dennis was in "Homewrecker" of Edge.
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Postby Monker » Mon May 30, 2005 2:01 am

You're the hypocrit... you never ONCE call out those who criticize Dennis. And it happens all the time... and for no reason many times.


Ah, yes, it's not about you contradicting your own values, not practicing what you preach. It's about everybody else. I understand. It's your nature.

I respond where I see fit... and I don't complain about it. What's his name was complaining about the same old tired arguments but meanwhile he's ALWAYS in the middle of them.


No, you plant the seeds of disaster. When the disaster finaly hits you, you get all whiney about it. You reap what you sow.

No... I come here to celebrate classic Styx and the great Dennis DeYoung.


No, you come here to celebrate your 'right' to piss all over the forum by whining about the Styx of today and why Dennis isn't there. That is how you "celebrate" Dennis and the ancient Styx.

People like you think because we're fans of the real band and don't accept this line-up that we have no right to be here. WRONG.


First of all, you don't have a 'right' to be here. You have a priviledge...blah, blah, blah...

Secondly, I don't care if you don't like Styx any longer. What I don't like is the FACT that every time someone has anything nice to say about Styx, you and Froy have to barge into the discussion and screw it all up with your 'right' to post whatever you want.

You have no respect for the forum as a whole, or the discussion as a whole...All you care about is your ability to spout off and destroy any decent discussion about STyx.
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Postby Monker » Mon May 30, 2005 2:07 am

PsychoSy wrote:Dennis couldn't have improved on One With Everything. In fact, the song didn't come about itself without Gowan playing the keyboard solos you hear in the song as a means of warming up during sound checks with Styx. After hearing Gowan warm up by playing this over and over, it grew on the rest of band and they felt it needed to be a full fledged song and got busy putting bass, guitar, drums and lyrics to the sucker. I believe that without Gowan in Styx, this excellent peice of work would not have existed at all in any shape or form so wondering how Dennis could've improved on it is rather moot -- he hasn't shown any inclination of playing prog-rock keyboard work of that calibre since the 1970s and the last really good keyboard solo by Dennis was in "Homewrecker" of Edge.


I thought it came about by Tommy playing with a bass riff....getting that intro bit and it then took off from there?
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Postby Monker » Mon May 30, 2005 2:11 am

quote][/quote]
StyxfanNH, I copied and pasted what It'sMyLife said in response to what he said to Monker. I said that I agreed with what he said, that quote wasn't from me originally. But I still agree with him


Of course not. It's so much easier to let others speak for you and then simply say you agree. But, the very fact that you felt compelled to make that post brings you down to his angry level...a place it seems that you don't like to be viewed as being a part of...but you are.
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Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Mon May 30, 2005 2:51 am

Monker you never add anything to any of the "Styx" conversations, you come on here and rip what every one writes.

Same old thing. Just like the Journey boards with you.
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Re: One With Everything

Postby thebook » Mon May 30, 2005 2:52 am

froy wrote:Great Shaw song don't hear it as a STYX song more of a 7 Zens tune
Gowan is weak on the keys and if Dennis played on this and produced it
It would have been a STYX classic
Todd smokes this tune,
Im glad its on the Anthology disc.

It's a decent song, in the top five on that album, I think it has some very good keyboard work on it and a nice opening bit.
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Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Mon May 30, 2005 3:36 am

Monker says:

You have no respect for the forum as a whole, or the discussion as a whole...All you care about is your ability to spout off and destroy any decent discussion about STyx.


Monker, all you care about is the ability to spout off to a few people on this board and you help destroy any decent discussion about Styx.

Anyway, back to Styx!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :)[/b]
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Postby bugsymalone » Mon May 30, 2005 5:14 am

Back to the subject at hand :roll: .

I listened to One With Everything again and it is a very good song. It is the standout song on that album I think, no question. For one thing, it was one of the few on that album where they were not using the words and titles of pre-written songs to chop Dennis into little pieces.

But I digress......

This song does sound Styx-ish, but I feel it lacks a certain depth and breadth that their great progressive rock songs of the past had.

The keyboarding is good, but sounds thin. The harmony is very good, but is lacking the power it used to have.

But I do like the song a lot. I really do. One of this group's very best.

I watched a little video of that song that had been on VH1Classic taken from the Sturgis show last year, and it kicked some butt live, no question. It needs to be in their live show. If any song can become this incarnation's signature song, this one should be it. NOT Walrus!

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Postby Guest » Mon May 30, 2005 8:17 am

Monker = Hypocrite

Light up and be happy, join us in this celebration...
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Postby Monker » Mon May 30, 2005 4:16 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Monker, all you care about is the ability to spout off to a few people on this board and you help destroy any decent discussion about Styx.


What decent "discussion" about Styx? You mean the discussion I have in my Email box with a few choice people? People who would never post to a forum like this because of the IML's and Froy's who use it as one more opportunity to chant their lines, and give you another opportunity to say, "I agree"?

This forum is so fucked up that Styx fans can't even celebrate the first charting album in a decade without it turning into some banter back and forth about Dennis not being there.
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Postby Monker » Mon May 30, 2005 4:32 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Same old thing. Just like the Journey boards with you.


What Journey boards with me? Name one that I post to on a regular basis.

I post to the one here once in a while....but, not NEARLY what I do to this forum. It's the same bullshit of Perry fans all hot and bothered about how he was 'forced' out of the band, Neal is satan for moving on, blah, blah, blah....NOTHING can be said without it turning into that conversation. It happens whether I am posting or not.

The Journey forums suck for the very reasons this forum is starting to suck. NO positive thread or post about the current band is allowed to stand without some over zealous Dennis fan entering the topic and repeatedly farting his pro-Dennis propaganda until the entire thread stinks and nobody wants to even post any longer.
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Postby styxfanNH » Mon May 30, 2005 11:54 pm

Monker wrote:
SuiteMadameBlue wrote: NO positive thread or post about the current band is allowed to stand without some over zealous Dennis fan entering the topic and repeatedly farting his pro-Dennis propaganda until the entire thread stinks and nobody wants to even post any longer.


or overzealous Current Line-Up supporter that can't find some validity to both sides of the arguement.
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Postby Zan » Tue May 31, 2005 12:08 am

Monker wrote:
SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Same old thing. Just like the Journey boards with you.


What Journey boards with me? Name one that I post to on a regular basis.

I post to the one here once in a while....but, not NEARLY what I do to this forum. It's the same bullshit of Perry fans all hot and bothered about how he was 'forced' out of the band, Neal is satan for moving on, blah, blah, blah....NOTHING can be said without it turning into that conversation. It happens whether I am posting or not.

The Journey forums suck for the very reasons this forum is starting to suck. NO positive thread or post about the current band is allowed to stand without some over zealous Dennis fan entering the topic and repeatedly farting his pro-Dennis propaganda until the entire thread stinks and nobody wants to even post any longer.



It's obvious everyone is a little burnt out here, but I have to say that I agree with Monker here. All I've ever seen Monker and Adam do is post in defense against some of the more zealous people when they have nothing positive to offer. Yeah, they do it in a not-so-flattering way to DDY sometimes, which I don't personally feel is the best choice, but I can't remember the last time either of them initiated a flame war over this crap.

Now, that said, I *have* seen other members of this board (who have gotten on Monker's and Adam's cases about what they post) chime in agreeance with the Froys of the board on several occasions. Then, these same people have asked the rest of us not to respond to the tripe because it "feeds the toll." LOL

If we're going to rehash the same tired arguments over & over, I'm really glad we have people like Adam and Monker here to balance out the scales. Some of you may not like what they have to say (coincidentally, I'm sure, those who happen to be pro-Dennis), but at least they do it in an intelligent manner. Of course, anyone is free to disagree with me. lol

For the record, I think Froy and IML have made some good posts. I'm just bored with the same old, same old too.
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Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Tue May 31, 2005 2:03 am

Zan says:

It's obvious everyone is a little burnt out here, but I have to say that I agree with Monker here. All I've ever seen Monker and Adam do is post in defense against some of the more zealous people when they have nothing positive to offer. Yeah, they do it in a not-so-flattering way to DDY sometimes, which I don't personally feel is the best choice, but I can't remember the last time either of them initiated a flame war over this crap.


That's my point, Monker and Adam post in defense against some of the more zealous people when they have nothing positive to offer.

They don't offer anything on the band Styx.

Anyway, back to Styx :)
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Postby Monker » Tue May 31, 2005 11:02 pm

That's my point, Monker and Adam post in defense against some of the more zealous people when they have nothing positive to offer.

They don't offer anything on the band Styx.

Anyway, back to Styx


So what. That is what this forum is now about. To offer anything on the band Styx has to somehow incorporate belittling the band as it stands today. If it doesn't, it drowns in a sea of negativity and nonsense.

and, you're wrong. I don't only post in defense of IML and Froy...you just choose to not acknowledge or see it.
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Postby Guest » Tue May 31, 2005 11:47 pm

Monker wrote:So what. That is what this forum is now about. To offer anything on the band Styx has to somehow incorporate belittling the band as it stands today. If it doesn't, it drowns in a sea of negativity and nonsense.


Yawn. You're guilty as charged Monker.
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Postby Monker » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:49 am

Yawn. You're guilty as charged Monker.


You, or anybody else on these forums, judging me as "guilty" or not "guilty" is irrelevant to me.

As I said, so what. Any real conversation has basicaly left this forum.
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Postby swwskj » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:54 am

It may be the exception to the rule, but the last thread I started about the Speedstreet concert was an example of real conversation happening. While I will concede that most threads go down the slippery slope, there are enough people here that can have a civilized conversation. I have in fact witnessed examples of that very thing from each of the "usual suspects" on BOTH sides.

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Postby Monker » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:41 pm

swwskj wrote:It may be the exception to the rule, but the last thread I started about the Speedstreet concert was an example of real conversation happening. While I will concede that most threads go down the slippery slope, there are enough people here that can have a civilized conversation. I have in fact witnessed examples of that very thing from each of the "usual suspects" on BOTH sides.

Scott


Who cares.

This forum fell apart a long time ago and nothing can really save it now. It may as well be a newsgroup. Geez, IML is even having gay visions of Gowan with Dennis in another thread. All we need now is for some troll to start spamming porn and it'll be just like a newsgroup.
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Postby Ash » Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:56 pm

Monker wrote:Who cares.

This forum fell apart a long time ago and nothing can really save it now. It may as well be a newsgroup. Geez, IML is even having gay visions of Gowan with Dennis in another thread. All we need now is for some troll to start spamming porn and it'll be just like a newsgroup.


With all due respect... some of us *do* care. If you think the forum fell apart, then you don't have to post here. Granted there is some very strange and off-topic crap that goes on here, but it's nothing compared to some music forums I've seen. To say it "fell apart a long time ago" would be inaccurate.

People who want things to be one way will continue fighting to make them the way they thing it should be. It's more pointless to post about how pointless that endeavor is than it is to simply contribute to the goal
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Postby styxfanNH » Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:05 pm

Ash wrote:
Monker wrote:Who cares.

This forum fell apart a long time ago and nothing can really save it now. It may as well be a newsgroup. Geez, IML is even having gay visions of Gowan with Dennis in another thread. All we need now is for some troll to start spamming porn and it'll be just like a newsgroup.


With all due respect... some of us *do* care. If you think the forum fell apart, then you don't have to post here. Granted there is some very strange and off-topic crap that goes on here, but it's nothing compared to some music forums I've seen. To say it "fell apart a long time ago" would be inaccurate.

People who want things to be one way will continue fighting to make them the way they thing it should be. It's more pointless to post about how pointless that endeavor is than it is to simply contribute to the goal


It fell apart on March 29th. Prior to that it was under control. When someone makes as many posts in 60 days than most of us have done in more than a year, then that should say it all.
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Postby Monker » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:08 pm

With all due respect... some of us *do* care. If you think the forum fell apart, then you don't have to post here.


Correct. I don't have to post. But, since I *DO* post it means I will treat it more like a newsgroup.

To say it "fell apart a long time ago" would be inaccurate.


I disagree...and I'm not going to argue about that.

People who want things to be one way will continue fighting to make them the way they thing it should be. It's more pointless to post about how pointless that endeavor is than it is to simply contribute to the goal.


Correct...you can't force a forum to be how you want it to be. A forum is the way it is because of the people who post to it. So, unless the owner starts banning people or censoring the forum, what is posted can NOT be controled.

I'll go where things go. That's not a real problem with me. I know some people here WILL have a problem going there and the membership here is going to shrink. That's a sad thing, but it's inevitable.
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Postby Monker » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:15 pm

It fell apart on March 29th. Prior to that it was under control. When someone makes as many posts in 60 days than most of us have done in more than a year, then that should say it all.


EXACTLY...and it is being done in a very selfish way with no consideration for what happens to the forum as a whole. Just because you CAN say something doesn't mean you SHOULD say it.
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Postby Andrew » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:34 pm

Seems every post is descending into a pit of overdone, already-said BS....

Let's move on. DDY is no longer in the band. Big shame, I think he's a true legend and has always been really decent to me - but get over it.
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Postby froy » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:38 pm

Andrew wrote:Seems every post is descending into a pit of overdone, already-said BS....

Let's move on. DDY is no longer in the band. Big shame, I think he's a true legend and has always been really decent to me - but get over it.


Not going to happen Andrew we can't ever get over it
Its like Led Zep going on without Jimmy Page its unexceptable
We won't stand for it,
We must be heard .
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