Perry's voice on David Pack's new song.......SAD

[PROPERRY]

The guys ALL had a say in the music they wanted on the DVD. I recall Perry saying that John Koladner was in contact with them, during the time the Greatest Hits DVD was being made. I think the band members were also contacted about the song being used in the Monster movie too.



Lori

Actually, yes, you are correct. If Journey said NO then the project would not get done either.

But it seems that Journey would love to have lots of product out there for their fans, and Perry is the one who stands in the way. I am grateful for the GH DVD Perry worked on, but I think it could have been a LOT better. And it was Perry who basically had control of the Live 2001 DVD, which could have been a LOT better as well. All I meant was that Journey would love to give their fans all this material, but Perry still holds the reigns in getting it done.

And ultimately, with the GH DVD, Perry chose the songs and footage and JDK asked Journey if it was OK. I do not think Journey would have been able to suggest other songs or footage. It was not a "collaboration". But that is just the impression I got from hearing what JDK and Journey had to say about it.

Jrnyman,

How did Perry have control over the Live 2001 DVD? Wasn't that DVD with Steve Augeri singing on it? Perry wasn't singing on that DVD, so how could Perry be "held responsible" for it not being better???

Furthermore if the band members wanted to give the fans more classic DVD's, why can't the band members go in & work with JDk, if Perry does not want to get the job done, as you say???

Lori

[The_Noble_Cause]

Furthermore if the band members wanted to give the fans more classic DVD's, why can't the band members go in & work with JDk, if Perry does not want to get the job done, as you say???
Lori

There's alot we don't know here, Lori.
However it seems clear (from JDK's website postings through the years) that both Journey and Steve need to be in concord about a project before any preliminary work is officially undertaken.

[Monker]

Furthermore if the band members wanted to give the fans more classic DVD's, why can't the band members go in & work with JDk, if Perry does not want to get the job done, as you say???

It's very simple. Steve Perry has to give permission to release ANY video that contains his image...it's the law. If JDK does not treat Perry like a saint and baby him like some spoiled child, it doesn't get done, and may not get done even after he repeatedly kisses Perry's ass (as in the Escape DVD).

All Journey does is stay out of the way, neither taking the credit for it, OR THE BLAME when it doesn't happen.

[Monker]

There's alot we don't know here, Lori.
However it seems clear (from JDK's website postings through the years) that both Journey and Steve need to be in concord about a project before any preliminary work is officially undertaken.

It depends on who is on the video. If it is Escape, they also need to talk to Steve Smith. If it is Departure, they need to talk to Gregg. If it is Infinity, they need to talk to Aynsley. If it is ROR, they will need to talk to Randy Jackson. For 'classic' DVD's, neither Deen or Augeri have any say in it....neither does Journey as a whole as it exists today.

A person is in control of how their images are used as product. If Sony does not have permission to sell that image, they are violating the law. If Perry whines about it and refuses to sign off, then it doesn't get done. THAT is the bottom line. THAT, IMO, is why JDK is so careful about what he says about Perry and any project he is working on with him. It is better to praise him, or say nothing at all, then to say anything that may remotely be viewed as 'critique'.

[OpeningAct]

Lying to yourself makes one at peace one's self?


Perry flatout sucked on TBF.. Those songs where you could here him gasping for air was embarrassing.. Please just be honest. Most of those songs were not that hard to sing. Deen could nail all them, and sound much better doing it.

RnD, you are SO far off in this post, I don't know where to start brother...

[Rockindeano]

Ok rock god. How am I far off? TBF sucked. There are at least 5 songs that couldn't make Generations' final cut. Hey, it's an opinion. Get over it. What are you, the ultimate Journey police?

[Kaj]

MONKER WROTE:
"He knows where his solo career stands, and it's not in a good place.

Steve Perry being a 'star' in the music biz is long over. It was over as soon as he released "I Stand Alone", and it went nowhere. The pop crap he wants to write and sing is no longer what the public wants to hear...especialy from a 60something year old man. "

KAJ RESPONDS!
Well,these numbers are taken from Rollingstone.com!
Steve Perry´s For the love of strange medicine sold 400,000 copies.
Journey´s Arrival sold 200,000 copies.
Journey´s Trial by fire made it to Top 5,platinum selling album.
Journey´s Generation is being released independently on Frontiers in Europe.

Just facts!
Words speak more than lame action sometimes

[Abitaman]

It's just hard for people to realize the Perry voice from 1977-1982 is gone forever. The guy can still sing, it is just different. Still great, just different.

Now, let's listen to our boy Augeri...

Very, very,very, well said. Steve Perry was the voice of rock, still is in my book, but he is closer to being called Steve Perry Como nowadays. But he still good. And that direction would not be bad for him to go in. Something like Dennis from Styx is doing. I don't think, on this post anyway The Noble Cause, had swithched to the Perry side. Perry is still good, and that is what TNC is saying. Just not as Journey good.
Augeri is the man now. We need to focus on him, and when Perry goes solo, if he ever does, then we can praise Perry. But Perry is out, of Journey, solo work, music buss, and the public eye. So he needs to be left alone. Not compared to Augeri. Augeri is the frontman now. The Perry ghost needs to fade away.

Been away to long, maybe a very long time before I'm back. Check my post on the Styx page "reporting live from Ocean Springs, MS......"
Talk to ya later-ERIC

[Red13JoePa]

"Steve Perry Como." Prett cool, Eric. Good luck, man. We'll be thinking of ya.

[PROPERRY]

Furthermore if the band members wanted to give the fans more classic DVD's, why can't the band members go in & work with JDk, if Perry does not want to get the job done, as you say???

It's very simple. Steve Perry has to give permission to release ANY video that contains his image...it's the law. If JDK does not treat Perry like a saint and baby him like some spoiled child, it doesn't get done, and may not get done even after he repeatedly kisses Perry's ass (as in the Escape DVD).

All Journey does is stay out of the way, neither taking the credit for it, OR THE BLAME when it doesn't happen.

Monker,

"it's the law."

Then that would mean it would be that way for the rest of the band members too, NOT just Steve Perry! It has NOTHING to do with Perry being in control OR Journey band members being in control. They ALL have to "mutually agree" with everything that get's done.

And Monker, everyone knows you hate Steve Perry, so the rest of your hateful comments about him are just your OWN opinions, NOT factual as you would like everyone to believe.

Lori

[OpeningAct]

Ok rock god. How am I far off? TBF sucked. There are at least 5 songs that couldn't make Generations' final cut. Hey, it's an opinion. Get over it. What are you, the ultimate Journey police?

Jesus Christ, why do you get so defensive with someone who has an opinion different from yours???? I never said I was the ultimate Journey police. And there's nothing for me to get over.
I wasn't trying to pick a fight, just giving my opinion, that's all. I don't agree that TBF sucked. I thought it was a great album.

[Greg]

People need to consider a few things:

A singer who has been singing in the rock genre since the 70's cannot possibly continue this forever. You're having to go out every single night for years, and sing over top of loud heavy guitars and screaming fans - then you couple this with Perry's early singing style: It's amazing that he even has a voice at all left.

Then of course, you add age to the equation and possibly not staying in shape - those two aspects weigh in on your singing ability. Another thing - Perry dropped off the face of the earth after ROR - and it was 7 or 8 years later that we heard from him again...not saying that Perry didn't sing at all during his break, but singing is like weight lifting - if you stop doing it or you don't do it on a regular basis, you lose what you have.

Considering all of those aspects mentioned above, I believe Perry sounded absolutely great on FTLOSM, and sounded pretty good on TBF. Did he sound great compared to the early stuff? Heck no..not in the least..but given the facts, Perry can still hold is on against several top singers in the genre.

My thoughts on the David Pack/Steve Perry clip: I loved the Perry backing vocals layering underneath Pack's lead vocals - very ROR! I would have to hear the whole song to give a fair assessment - but his sound is old and worn out - because he is older and his voice is worn out - BUT - I believe Perry's old, worn out voice is still better to listen to than several other "rock" voices of today.

I'm looking forward to hearing more from the guy and I hope we do! But - am glad that Journey went in the heavier direction like they did on this album.....

[jrnyman28]

Welcome aboard Greggie.

No one is questioning why or how Perry's voice has changed. We all accept it. It is just that some people here get very defensive when you point out these changes and try to make it seem like other people are attacking Perry for it.

It has also been the source of much of the debate over the years of whether Journey should have waited for Perry to return. Many fans thought Journey should wait for Perry "no matter how long". Others feel that Journey should have chosen someone who sounded completely different than Perry if they were going to move on. The irony is that if Journey had waited ofr Perry to return, Journey would have gotten someone who sounded completely different!

I think it is safe to say thet we all appreciate what Perry brought to Journey (at least up until Frontiers). And I think we all still appreciate the way Perry can use his vocals, even "today". But, even though Steve will NEVER be on the same level as Perry, Steve can sing stuff that Perry used to sing closer to the original sound, better than Perry can now.

[Red13JoePa]

Last point is valid, 28.
particularly in the case of Open Arms. Augeri sings that LIVE better than I've ever heard Perry do it. With Perry live Open Arms, unlike the studio version he goes down a note in the second sylable of the word "open" to build back up to "arms" which he then changes to 1 sylable rather that the high sylabe/then-higher-sylable word you hear on the studio one.
Augeri can and has been pulling of the studio-esque note-for-note, sylable-for-sylable Open Arms since he took the job in 98.

[Rockindeano]

[quote="Red13JoePa"] With Perry live Open Arms, unlike the studio version he goes down a note in the second sylable of the word "open" to build back up to "arms" which he then changes to 1 sylable rather that the high sylabe/then-higher-sylable word you hear on the studio one. quote]

I actually liked the way Perry changed up the hi/lo on that song plus others..

Nealisgod knows,..on the FTLOSM (NYC), Perr's Anyway You Want It sounded cool..a bit different vocal arrangement...now whether by design or necessity..who knows?

[Red13JoePa]

Some day I'm gonna get my grubby mits on one of those FTLOSM shows.

[Red13JoePa]

Dean, which of the aggregate of all Perry/Augie live versions of Open Arms you've heard do you prefer?

I know what you mean about the other Perry changes. take live Suzanne where I've heard him him change "WHoa, oh, oh... (descending timbre)" to a building to a real high pitch 1-word drawn out, "WhoooooaaaaaaaaAAAAAA. Suzanne!" You'll hear that on Live On Radio. There I think it works out better than OA.

[Rockindeano]

Dean, which of the aggregate of all Perry/Augie live versions of Open Arms you've heard do you prefer?

I know what you mean about the other Perry changes. take live Suzanne where I've heard him him change "WHoa, oh, oh... (descending timbre)" to a building to a real high pitch 1-word drawn out, "WhoooooaaaaaaaaAAAAAA. Suzanne!" You'll hear that on Live On Radio. There I think it works out better than OA.

On OA, I was referring to the live from the Summit show in Houston..in fact he does it that way all the time.

As for Suzanne, I feel Journey was playing songs on that tour faster than studio, and it seemed rushed to me, which of course is EASIER to sing...

[yandtguy]

I'm jumping on this post late...but it seems like from the posts I've read, Perry might not still have his range (and at his age, it's little wonder there). Well, here's an observation: Perry started his career with amazing range and trashed it not only with the long Journey tours but with is performance style while Augeri has never had any range. He sings best in middle to low register and basically has the range that Perry ended up with after 15 years of performing.

It really doesn't matter though does it. We have what we have. Augeri wants to sing, and Journey hired him. Perry doesn't want to sing, so he doesn't. Why speculate on what ifs?

Greg

[yandtguy]

But, even though Steve will NEVER be on the same level as Perry, Steve can sing stuff that Perry used to sing closer to the original sound, better than Perry can now.

That's speculation. Until Perry decides to sing again, we have no way of knowing that. Also, people have been reporting Augeri's difficulties during the current tour at each show. But again, it's all merely speculation.

Greg

[yandtguy]

<<It's definitely not mine, I don't want another FTLOSM, mediocre piece of garbage. Perry has more problems then just his range. He turned his back on his own influences and instead turned to pop garbage.>>

So, you're saying that "You Better Wait" is weaker than half the mess on Arrival? OK.

<<He forgot how to write great songs, and he lost the band that put him on top.>>

And yet, he did chart with FTLOSM.

<<He was obviously over the hill with FTLOSM, He was at the bottom with GH+5. His solo stuff is an insignificant pebble when compared to the mountain of qulaity music of Journey...>>

I would take "Against The Wall" against half the songs on Arrival and Genrations combined. Then again, that's just me.

<<Why do you think HE milks the Journey name by doing things like the Monster soundtrack and the DVD's, instead of recording new solo stuff? He knows where his solo career stands, and it's not in a good place.>>

He doesn't have to do anything but what interests him at this point. The man is incredibly wealthy. The Monster soundtrack was probably an interesting project for him.

<<Steve Perry being a 'star' in the music biz is long over. It was over as soon as he released "I Stand Alone", and it went nowhere. The pop crap he wants to write and sing is no longer what the public wants to hear...especialy from a 60something year old man.>>

If Michael McDonald could make a comeback, Perry can. It has nothing to do with age. "I Stand Alone" was a soundtrack song, so you can't gauge that against a single from a solo album. Remember though, Journey's last hit was a Perry-sung ballad "When You Love A Woman." You just can't ignore that.

<It's over for Perry...It's been over for about ten years.>>

Because he wanted it to be over. Heck, the man has never impressed me as an individual. I detested his strong-arm tactics during the ROR sessions, was let down by his not being straight with fans during the TBF fiasco and think that he has been fairly self-centered since '85, but people love that voice. They loved it in '78 when it was ear piercingly high and they loved it in '96 when it wasn't. If he came back, he might not go multi-platinum, but he would have a career.

Greg

[heardonthestreet]

It's ludicrous to even compare the two. Augeri was never even good at his best. He would have made a name for himself by now if he were even a wee bit as good as Perry. He sings, he strutts and he is riding the tail of a comet along side Schon, imo.

[Rockindeano]

~YAWN~


Oh, I get it..Neal as well as Augeri are riding the tail of a comet.. Let me take a wild guess..Perry is the comet! Yippee, I win!

Same old tired act....go back to your cave, bitch.

[jrnyman28]

Well, here's an observation: Perry started his career with amazing range and trashed it not only with the long Journey tours but with is performance style while Augeri has never had any range. He sings best in middle to low register and basically has the range that Perry ended up with after 15 years of performing.

Greg

Steve does have the most of the range. He is not as strong with the high end and his voice is no where near as "grand" as Perry's was. But he has range.

[RubyTequila]

It's ludicrous to even compare the two. Augeri was never even good at his best. He would have made a name for himself by now if he were even a wee bit as good as Perry. He sings, he strutts and he is riding the tail of a comet along side Schon, imo.

And he looks so damn fine in those leathers!

and then there's the visual of SP in leather

[jrnyman28]

But, even though Steve will NEVER be on the same level as Perry, Steve can sing stuff that Perry used to sing closer to the original sound, better than Perry can now.

That's speculation. Until Perry decides to sing again, we have no way of knowing that. Also, people have been reporting Augeri's difficulties during the current tour at each show. But again, it's all merely speculation.

Greg

It is not speculation. We have heard the ROR Tour, we have heard FTLOSM, we have seen Perry on the FTLOSM Tour, We have heard TBF, we have heard "I Stand Alone", we heard the backing vocals on Jeff Golub's CD and now we have heard his backing vocals on David Pack's CD. The most telling of these is the FTLOSM Tour. Perry's voice LIVE Is not what it was...that is fact. However, Perry still uses the voice he has better than most singers out there. And people have reported some problems Steve had in the beginning...couple asthma and outdoor venues and I understand some of it. But let us not forget that Perry was not perfect live every night either. Plus the unreal expectations some fans place on him because he is filling Perry's slippers lead to some of these reviews.

I have not been attacking Perry, or pumping up Steve. Fact: Perry's voice is not what it was, evidenced by the FTLOSM Tour specifically. Fact: Steve is not the singer Perry was, evidenced by all recordings and some live shows. Conclusion based on what I have personally witnessed: Steve sings Perry-era Journey songs closer to the way Perry did, then Perry does now (or did on the FTLOSM Tour). Fact: Perry chooses not to sing much anymore. Fact: Steve does, therefore he is singing in Journey. Fact: Many people are very happy with Steve.

[Rockindeano]

It is not speculation. We have heard the ROR Tour, we have heard FTLOSM, we have seen Perry on the FTLOSM Tour, We have heard TBF, we have heard "I Stand Alone", we heard the backing vocals on Jeff Golub's CD and now we have heard his backing vocals on David Pack's CD. The most telling of these is the FTLOSM Tour. Perry's voice LIVE Is not what it was...that is fact. However, Perry still uses the voice he has better than most singers out there. And people have reported some problems Steve had in the beginning...couple asthma and outdoor venues and I understand some of it. But let us not forget that Perry was not perfect live every night either. Plus the unreal expectations some fans place on him because he is filling Perry's slippers lead to some of these reviews.

I have not been attacking Perry, or pumping up Steve. Fact: Perry's voice is not what it was, evidenced by the FTLOSM Tour specifically. Fact: Steve is not the singer Perry was, evidenced by all recordings and some live shows. Conclusion based on what I have personally witnessed: Steve sings Perry-era Journey songs closer to the way Perry did, then Perry does now (or did on the FTLOSM Tour). Fact: Perry chooses not to sing much anymore. Fact: Steve does, therefore he is singing in Journey. Fact: Many people are very happy with Steve.

Fact- You hit the nail on the head 28.

[jrnyman28]

So, you're saying that "You Better Wait" is weaker than half the mess on Arrival? OK.

Absolutely. Well, I did not say it, but I agree.

And yet, he did chart with FTLOSM.

Whcich chart are you referring to. A couple of things: Perry is smart enough to surround himself with talented individuals; anyone can "hire a hit", even Bad English did with "I Can See You Smile"...but they didn't "need" to and that is what led to BE breaking up.

I would take "Against The Wall" against half the songs on Arrival and Genrations combined. Then again, that's just me.

That's cool. I actually think Against The Wall is a PHENOMINAL Perry tune. But that was written and recorded in 1988. And, I may be wrong since I do not have the credits in front of me right now, Perry had a co-writer on that one as well.

He doesn't have to do anything but what interests him at this point. The man is incredibly wealthy. The Monster soundtrack was probably an interesting project for him.

I have read that "Monster" did interest Perry. That is how he became a music consultant on the movie. BUT that is not the point. The point was how Perry does all this liscensing of Journey material but NOT of his solo material.

If Michael McDonald could make a comeback, Perry can. It has nothing to do with age.

Absolutely correct. But it does have to do with the material selected. Michael McDonald made a (brief) comeback recording OTHER PEOPLE'S music. We have all agreed that Perry could do very well with a Sam Cooke Tribute or something else. I believe Perry could do well with an Adult Contemporary release. But I do not believe Perry can or will rock again.

"I Stand Alone" was a soundtrack song, so you can't gauge that against a single from a solo album.

I don't see why not. The argument you have been making is that Perry can work with other people writing songs and that it should not be held against him. How is this different. He even received a writing credit on this song, even though I think it had to do with arrangement since the movie version of the song is not that different but he had no writing credit on that one.

Remember though, Journey's last hit was a Perry-sung ballad "When You Love A Woman." You just can't ignore that.

No, you can't. But there are available qualifiers: REUNION, Songwriting and musical contributions by other Journey members, Sony promotion, etc.

Because he wanted it to be over.

But why? Maybe he was still burned out. But it is just as possible that Perry might not feel as confident about his voice. I mean that maybe he is worried about performing to HIS OWN expectations. He has always struck me as his own worst critic. He is a perfectionist.

Heck, the man has never impressed me as an individual. I detested his strong-arm tactics during the ROR sessions, was let down by his not being straight with fans during the TBF fiasco and think that he has been fairly self-centered since '85,

I admit that I do not really care about that stuff.

but people love that voice. They loved it in '78 when it was ear piercingly high and they loved it in '96 when it wasn't.

Yes they do, myself included. But by your own comments, they cannot "know" what it would sound like today. I think we have a good idea of his capabilities, and I think he can still sing well. Most of this conversation has simply been about if the way he sings "today" is limited compared to how he sang "back in the day". That answer is a YES.

If he came back, he might not go multi-platinum, but he would have a career.

Greg

And guess what...Journey has a career as well.

[jrnyman28]

It's ludicrous to even compare the two.

THANK YOU...yet you and your Perry friends still do it all the time.

Augeri was never even good at his best. He would have made a name for himself by now if he were even a wee bit as good as Perry.

First...that is only YOUR OPINION.
Second...Tall Stories was killed by TIMING, not talent!

He sings,

He sings well.

he strutts

Which is part of what makes him such a good entertainer. You are not implying that Perry did not strut, are you?

and he is riding the tail of a comet along side Schon, imo.

Maybe it is the Haley's comet which continues to return to the Earth's skies...to be seen among the stars in the night sky, but much brighter. And ya know what? The comet itself is JOURNEY!!

[heardonthestreet]

Ruby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Those red leather pants are a joke. He looked like a girl in them, with his stringy curls. He moves like a girl. He may be the nicest guy in the world but you know what they say about nice guys.

Dave, I hope that you're posting something of interest but sorry, I just can't take the time to read through your remedial format.