The Math

[bugsymalone]

Here is my math on this subject we keep hitting on with several threads:

Original Styx – 5 original members (three are founding members before they even had any name)

Classic Styx – 4 original members, one voluntarily left, replaced by another = 5

EOTC Styx – 4 original members , one voluntarily left, replaced by another = 5

Reunion Styx – 3 original members, one passed away, 1 from the Classic era, 1 replacement drummer = 5

Carrot Styx – 1 original member, occasionally joined by 1 original member (rarely) so I will give it 2 originals plus 1 Classic and 1 Classic replacement and 1 reunion drummer, 1 replacement for original member who did not leave voluntarily = 5 and sometimes 6

Current Styx – 1 original member plus the occasional joining by 1 original member. 1 Classic member, 1 reunion drummer, 1 replacement bass player, and 1 replacement keyboard player = 5 and sometimes 6

I will leave the judgments as to what is , or is not, was, or was not, Styx. The continuity ran from Original through EOTC with the original band largely in tact. Had not John been ill, the Reunion version would have definitely had 4 Original members.

After 1999 that cannot be said.

Anyone going to see “Styx” now is largely seeing a band with one original member and one member from their Classic heyday. Does that entitle them to the name and the legacy? You be the judge.

BTW -- not intending to start a flame war yet AGAIN. Simply the facts of the matter here.

Bugsy

[onestilllearning]

Ok, You have totally depressed me! I forget whose tagline it is but you are "letting the facts get in the way of the truth" or something like that.

People here have argued and discussed the current Styx vs the original Styx, but you are currect there are many manifestations of Styx. My perception is that the current version of Styx which I will be seeing for the fisrt time (drop glenn and replace with Ricky) is still Styx and I am able maintain this "Grand Illusion" becouse to me the core of Styx at its best was DDY, TS, and JY . But factor in that I felt DDY was the least of the three (not in talent , just prefer harder rock) then I percieve that I still have better than 2/3 of the band I love. Now in keeping that perception = reality I am going to see "Styx" this summer.

For the record I have seen the following carnations of Styx

Classic Styx - once in 1979
Reunion Styx - once in 1999 (i think)
Carrot Styx - 3 times 2001 , 2002 , 2003

[ek88]

Bugs:

Your argument would sway me more if Johnny P. was still with us and Chuck's health allowed him to keep up with the touring schedule. It would be interesting to see if the two of them would be regulars in the "new" band. If so, there would still be three of the founding members (and four of the classic lineup, like EOTC). If not, then the argument holds up better. Unfortunately, life being what it is, we'll never be able to draw a true comparison.

[bugsymalone]

EK. I completely agree that very likely, were they hale and hearty, John P. and Chuck P. would be touring with the Current Styx.

It would change the equation in a lot of ways.

But things are as they are.

Bugsy

[Abitaman]

-ERIC

[Zan]

But things are as they are.

Whoa man, that was deep.

[Hippie]

So how would the equation have changed if DDY had "involuntarily" left in 1979 as was the plan?

Would it have gone to imaginary numbers?

[Guest]

So how would the equation have changed if DDY had "involuntarily" left in 1979 as was the plan?

I find it fascinating that they were ready to dump Dennis in '79 but couldn't because he kept writing hit tunes.

That speaks volumes about the character of those guys.... couldn't get rid of their meal ticket.

[onestilllearning]

So how would the equation have changed if DDY had "involuntarily" left in 1979 as was the plan?


Whats the story here ? I was not aware of an attempt to oust DDY in 79 , can you elaborate?

[bugsymalone]

Whoa man, that was deep.

Deep as Deepoc?



Bugsy

[Zan]

Whoa man, that was deep.

Deep as Deepoc?

More like Jack Handy.

[Zan]

So how would the equation have changed if DDY had "involuntarily" left in 1979 as was the plan?

I find it fascinating that they were ready to dump Dennis in '79 but couldn't because he kept writing hit tunes.

That speaks volumes about the character of those guys.... couldn't get rid of their meal ticket.

Is that anything like food stamps?

Speaking of character and volumes, have I told you how much I enjoy these little pseudo-truths you continually post as well-known facts? It's awe-inspiring.

And speaking of awe-inspiring, tonight's the niiiiiight I go see Deeeeenis DeYoung...I'd say "wish me luck," but then I wouldn't understand why you did. I haven't seen DDY live since 1997, so I'm sure it'll be cool. Suite, I'll make SURE you get a report.

[styxfanNH]

have a great time Zan. You'll enjoy Dennis' voice if nothing else.

[bugsymalone]

And speaking of awe-inspiring, tonight's the niiiiiight I go see Deeeeenis DeYoung...I'd say "wish me luck," but then I wouldn't understand why you did. I haven't seen DDY live since 1997, so I'm sure it'll be cool.

Have a good time and remember to "live the moment" (Deep Thoughts) .

Bugsy (trying to come up with ever DEEPER thoughts)

[kansas666]

Anyone going to see “Styx” now is largely seeing a band with one original member and one member from their Classic heyday. Does that entitle them to the name and the legacy? You be the judge.

Yup, happens all the time. I don't know what you mean about "the legacy" but it sure entitles them to "the name", at least according to the courts of the United States of America.

And I will continue to pay money to see them because I enjoy their show. And I will continue to purchase their albums because I think they put out a quality product.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Zan, LOL, I still know know why you said "wish me luck" on the other board. I hope you know by now that I get confused easy

I do hope you give a detailed report of tonight's concert. I'd appreciate it. Ohhhhhh, don't forget to let me know what you think of "Pieces of Eight", I'm a little obsessed with hearing that song live lately (ya think?)

I don't think they were trying to "fire" Dennis in 1979, I thought it was more in the mid-80's. I know that a few members were not happy campers in 1979 when they signed their new contract at that time. No one every put a gun to their heads when they signed these contracts, no one told Tommy to sell his portion of Styx - he did that on his own.

I really love Jack Handy's Deep Thoughts, those are the best!!

[Monker]

Whoa man, that was deep.

Deep as Deepoc?

More like Jack Handy.

Deeper thoughts by Monker

If you're a horse, and someone gets on you, and falls off, and then gets right back on you, I think you should buck him off right away.

But, if you're a dead horse and someone keeps beating you. I think you should just let them do it. Because, he is obviously bored silly and you're dead anyway.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Kansas, are you going to see them at Summerfest and the Walworth County Fair this summer?

[Adam]

Initially this thread was raising the “CAN WE REALLY CALL THEM STYX?” question. (Or nag, if you will)

This recalls an endless argument, which can be repeated about any number of acts, from Fleetwood Mac to Pink Floyd to Journey to the Moody Blues to Journey to Santana to the Who.

And for the record, I have met people who adamantly SWEAR that Styx was never Styx after John Curlewski left.

I suppose you could also ask ‘WHOSE OPINION IS MORE IMPORTANT, YOUR OR MINE?’

P.S. to It’sMyLife: Who said they didn’t dump Dennis in '79 “because he kept writing hit tunes”?

ANSWER: Only ItsMyLife.

One might say that announcing made up, fictional statements based on opinion speaks volumes about the character of the speaker too…

[Zan]

Zan, LOL, I still know know why you said "wish me luck" on the other board. I hope you know by now that I get confused easy

I do hope you give a detailed report of tonight's concert. I'd appreciate it. Ohhhhhh, don't forget to let me know what you think of "Pieces of Eight", I'm a little obsessed with hearing that song live lately (ya think?)

I shall try. I guess I wanted luck to help me get through the whole experience. I'm not exactly a "DeYoungian," in case you hadn't noticed. LOL - I do think the show will be lovely.

I really love Jack Handy's Deep Thoughts, those are the best!!

Very insightful, that guy. lol

[Zan]

But, if you're a dead horse and someone keeps beating you. I think you should just let them do it. Because, he is obviously bored silly and you're dead anyway.

LMAO!

[Guest]

Speaking of character and volumes, have I told you how much I enjoy these little pseudo-truths you continually post as well-known facts? It's awe-inspiring.

Congrats Zan! You've inspired the perfect name for this line-up!

Pseudo-Styx!

[Zan]

Congrats Zan! You've inspired the perfect name for this line-up!

Pseudo-Styx!

]Or "Sue 'dose Styx!"

[Guest]

P.S. to It’sMyLife: Who said they didn’t dump Dennis in '79 “because he kept writing hit tunes”?

ANSWER: Only ItsMyLife.

Wasn't that mentioned (or alluded to) in the "Behind The Music"? Or perhaps I'm confusing this with information I read elsewhere.

Anyhow, supposedly they wanted to oust Dennis around '78/'79 but the record company wouldn't stand for it and since he was writing the lionshare of hit songs they had little leverage.

So maybe they would have done it if they could have... but it certainly wouldn't have made a lot of sense.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

From Faux Styx to Carrot Styx to Pseudo-Styx, they all have a "ring" to it.

Zan, you're not a DeYoungian!!!! What the hell's wrong with you? Just kidding. When you're at the concert, don't think of anything that happened in the past and just enjoy the music.

When I went to see Carrot Styx at Summerfest last summer I was miserable when they came out on stage, just miserable. (I went to the concert with a couple of great friends and had a great time with all the Styx fans there, that made a blast.) To me, they didn't look that happy on stage. It was like they were saying "okay another city, another concert we have to do." They looked tired (to me). But then again, I went to the concert with a lot of baggage in my head about the whole break up.

[Guest]

Zan... I dare you to hold up a Larry Gowan rules sign tonight!

[Zan]

From Faux Styx to Carrot Styx to Pseudo-Styx, they all have a "ring" to it.

Zan, you're not a DeYoungian!!!! What the hell's wrong with you? Just kidding. When you're at the concert, don't think of anything that happened in the past and just enjoy the music.

That's what I intend on doing. Carrot Styx is the best of those, btw.


When I went to see Carrot Styx at Summerfest last summer I was miserable when they came out on stage, just miserable. (I went to the concert with a couple of great friends and had a great time with all the Styx fans there, that made a blast.) To me, they didn't look that happy on stage. It was like they were saying "okay another city, another concert we have to do." They looked tired (to me). But then again, I went to the concert with a lot of baggage in my head about the whole break up.[/quote]


That was how I felt in 1997. Exactly the same. They all looked like they'd rather be somewhere else.

[Monker]

Wasn't that mentioned (or alluded to) in the "Behind The Music"? Or perhaps I'm confusing this with information I read elsewhere.

Or, maybe your head is inventing things so what you WANT to believe fits your version of reality.

What was said on BTM is there was a huge conflict in the band after "Babe" was released and then they wanted to release "First Time". Tommy and JY wanted to be a rock band, Dennis wanted to go in another direction. That conflict eventualy escelated to the point where Dennis was fired.

Anyhow, supposedly they wanted to oust Dennis around '78/'79 but the record company wouldn't stand for it and since he was writing the lionshare of hit songs they had little leverage.

I don't think the thoughts of the "record company" were mentioned in the BTM. I don't think they said much at all except they didn't find an acceptable replacement.

So maybe they would have done it if they could have... but it certainly wouldn't have made a lot of sense.

It's supposed to be a band. When one member thinks he rules all others then that member should be thrown into the crack of doom so that the others can be free. Eventualy, that is what happened.

[Guest]

Or, maybe your head is inventing things so what you WANT to believe fits your version of reality.

And maybe your head is empty.

What was said on BTM is there was a huge conflict in the band after "Babe" was released and then they wanted to release "First Time". Tommy and JY wanted to be a rock band, Dennis wanted to go in another direction. That conflict eventualy escelated to the point where Dennis was fired.

Hmmm... I don't seem to remember them having problems cashing the checks from all the hits Dennis was writing... which led to huge album sales... huge tours... huge merchandising... etc... etc.. etc..

My god... JY is one of the luckiest SOBs ever and now he badmouths Dennis every chance he gets.

I don't think the thoughts of the "record company" were mentioned in the BTM. I don't think they said much at all except they didn't find an acceptable replacement.

It was mentioned elsewhere then.

It's supposed to be a band. When one member thinks he rules all others then that member should be thrown into the crack of doom so that the others can be free. Eventualy, that is what happened.

And now Tommy and JY rule over 3 employees.

[kansas666]

Kansas, are you going to see them at Summerfest and the Walworth County Fair this summer?

I am going to try and catch both shows. It depends on my schedule.