The Math

Paradise Theater

Moderator: Andrew

The Math

Postby bugsymalone » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:48 am

Here is my math on this subject we keep hitting on with several threads:

Original Styx – 5 original members (three are founding members before they even had any name)

Classic Styx – 4 original members, one voluntarily left, replaced by another = 5

EOTC Styx – 4 original members , one voluntarily left, replaced by another = 5

Reunion Styx – 3 original members, one passed away, 1 from the Classic era, 1 replacement drummer = 5

Carrot Styx – 1 original member, occasionally joined by 1 original member (rarely) so I will give it 2 originals plus 1 Classic and 1 Classic replacement and 1 reunion drummer, 1 replacement for original member who did not leave voluntarily = 5 and sometimes 6

Current Styx – 1 original member plus the occasional joining by 1 original member. 1 Classic member, 1 reunion drummer, 1 replacement bass player, and 1 replacement keyboard player = 5 and sometimes 6

I will leave the judgments as to what is , or is not, was, or was not, Styx. The continuity ran from Original through EOTC with the original band largely in tact. Had not John been ill, the Reunion version would have definitely had 4 Original members.

After 1999 that cannot be said.

Anyone going to see “Styx” now is largely seeing a band with one original member and one member from their Classic heyday. Does that entitle them to the name and the legacy? You be the judge.

BTW -- not intending to start a flame war yet AGAIN. Simply the facts of the matter here.

Bugsy
Change your hairdo. Change your name.
Congratulations! You're still the same.
User avatar
bugsymalone
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3803
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:37 am
Location: Texas

Postby onestilllearning » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:23 am

Ok, You have totally depressed me! I forget whose tagline it is but you are "letting the facts get in the way of the truth" or something like that.

People here have argued and discussed the current Styx vs the original Styx, but you are currect there are many manifestations of Styx. My perception is that the current version of Styx which I will be seeing for the fisrt time (drop glenn and replace with Ricky) is still Styx and I am able maintain this "Grand Illusion" becouse to me the core of Styx at its best was DDY, TS, and JY . But factor in that I felt DDY was the least of the three (not in talent , just prefer harder rock) then I percieve that I still have better than 2/3 of the band I love. Now in keeping that perception = reality I am going to see "Styx" this summer.

For the record I have seen the following carnations of Styx

Classic Styx - once in 1979
Reunion Styx - once in 1999 (i think)
Carrot Styx - 3 times 2001 , 2002 , 2003
Looking back at a life
Filled with warm embraces
No regrets only memories
Of smiling faces
User avatar
onestilllearning
45 RPM
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 3:42 am
Location: NH

Postby ek88 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:46 am

Bugs:

Your argument would sway me more if Johnny P. was still with us and Chuck's health allowed him to keep up with the touring schedule. It would be interesting to see if the two of them would be regulars in the "new" band. If so, there would still be three of the founding members (and four of the classic lineup, like EOTC). If not, then the argument holds up better. Unfortunately, life being what it is, we'll never be able to draw a true comparison. :cry:
ek88
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 1157
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 9:29 am

Postby bugsymalone » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:50 am

EK. I completely agree that very likely, were they hale and hearty, John P. and Chuck P. would be touring with the Current Styx.

It would change the equation in a lot of ways.

But things are as they are.

Bugsy
Change your hairdo. Change your name.
Congratulations! You're still the same.
User avatar
bugsymalone
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3803
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:37 am
Location: Texas

Postby Abitaman » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:00 pm

:?: -ERIC
Abitaman
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:06 pm
Location: NO LONGER in West TN, now in East TN's beautiful Smokey Mountains

Postby Zan » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:34 pm

bugsymalone wrote:But things are as they are.



Whoa man, that was deep. :)
-Zan :)

believe me, i know my Styx

Image

Shiny things
User avatar
Zan
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:24 am
Location: PARADISE

Postby Hippie » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:15 pm

So how would the equation have changed if DDY had "involuntarily" left in 1979 as was the plan? :?

Would it have gone to imaginary numbers? :)
User avatar
Hippie
45 RPM
 
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:02 am
Location: Tallahassee, Florida

Postby Guest » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:57 pm

Hippie wrote:So how would the equation have changed if DDY had "involuntarily" left in 1979 as was the plan? :?


I find it fascinating that they were ready to dump Dennis in '79 but couldn't because he kept writing hit tunes.

That speaks volumes about the character of those guys.... couldn't get rid of their meal ticket.
Guest
 

Postby onestilllearning » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:18 pm

So how would the equation have changed if DDY had "involuntarily" left in 1979 as was the plan?


Whats the story here ? I was not aware of an attempt to oust DDY in 79 , can you elaborate?
Looking back at a life
Filled with warm embraces
No regrets only memories
Of smiling faces
User avatar
onestilllearning
45 RPM
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 3:42 am
Location: NH

Postby bugsymalone » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:04 pm

Whoa man, that was deep. :)


Deep as Deepoc?

:wink:

Bugsy
Change your hairdo. Change your name.
Congratulations! You're still the same.
User avatar
bugsymalone
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3803
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:37 am
Location: Texas

Postby Zan » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:34 pm

bugsymalone wrote:
Whoa man, that was deep. :)


Deep as Deepoc?

:wink:



More like Jack Handy. ;-)
-Zan :)

believe me, i know my Styx

Image

Shiny things
User avatar
Zan
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:24 am
Location: PARADISE

Postby Zan » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:43 pm

ItsMyLife wrote:
Hippie wrote:So how would the equation have changed if DDY had "involuntarily" left in 1979 as was the plan? :?


I find it fascinating that they were ready to dump Dennis in '79 but couldn't because he kept writing hit tunes.

That speaks volumes about the character of those guys.... couldn't get rid of their meal ticket.



Is that anything like food stamps?

Speaking of character and volumes, have I told you how much I enjoy these little pseudo-truths you continually post as well-known facts? It's awe-inspiring.

And speaking of awe-inspiring, tonight's the niiiiiight I go see Deeeeenis DeYoung...I'd say "wish me luck," but then I wouldn't understand why you did. I haven't seen DDY live since 1997, so I'm sure it'll be cool. Suite, I'll make SURE you get a report. :)
-Zan :)

believe me, i know my Styx

Image

Shiny things
User avatar
Zan
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:24 am
Location: PARADISE

Postby styxfanNH » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:47 pm

have a great time Zan. You'll enjoy Dennis' voice if nothing else.
www.styxtoury.com
Concert Dates, articles, and more
styxfanNH
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3022
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 5:39 am
Location: NH

Postby bugsymalone » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:51 pm

And speaking of awe-inspiring, tonight's the niiiiiight I go see Deeeeenis DeYoung...I'd say "wish me luck," but then I wouldn't understand why you did. I haven't seen DDY live since 1997, so I'm sure it'll be cool.


Have a good time and remember to "live the moment" (Deep Thoughts) :P .

Bugsy (trying to come up with ever DEEPER thoughts)
Change your hairdo. Change your name.
Congratulations! You're still the same.
User avatar
bugsymalone
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3803
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:37 am
Location: Texas

Re: The Math

Postby kansas666 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:12 pm

bugsymalone wrote:Anyone going to see “Styx” now is largely seeing a band with one original member and one member from their Classic heyday. Does that entitle them to the name and the legacy? You be the judge.



Yup, happens all the time. I don't know what you mean about "the legacy" but it sure entitles them to "the name", at least according to the courts of the United States of America. :roll:

And I will continue to pay money to see them because I enjoy their show. And I will continue to purchase their albums because I think they put out a quality product.
Dave
kansas666
8 Track
 
Posts: 711
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:13 pm

Zan, LOL, I still know know why you said "wish me luck" on the other board. I hope you know by now that I get confused easy :roll:

I do hope you give a detailed report of tonight's concert. I'd appreciate it. Ohhhhhh, don't forget to let me know what you think of "Pieces of Eight", I'm a little obsessed with hearing that song live lately (ya think?)

I don't think they were trying to "fire" Dennis in 1979, I thought it was more in the mid-80's. I know that a few members were not happy campers in 1979 when they signed their new contract at that time. No one every put a gun to their heads when they signed these contracts, no one told Tommy to sell his portion of Styx - he did that on his own.

I really love Jack Handy's Deep Thoughts, those are the best!!
Suite Madame Blue
User avatar
SuiteMadameBlue
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 6666
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:17 pm
Location: Paradise............

Postby Monker » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:14 pm

Zan wrote:
bugsymalone wrote:
Whoa man, that was deep. :)


Deep as Deepoc?

:wink:



More like Jack Handy. ;-)


Deeper thoughts by Monker

If you're a horse, and someone gets on you, and falls off, and then gets right back on you, I think you should buck him off right away.

But, if you're a dead horse and someone keeps beating you. I think you should just let them do it. Because, he is obviously bored silly and you're dead anyway.
Monker
MP3
 
Posts: 12648
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm

Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:15 pm

Kansas, are you going to see them at Summerfest and the Walworth County Fair this summer?
Suite Madame Blue
User avatar
SuiteMadameBlue
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 6666
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:17 pm
Location: Paradise............

Postby Adam » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:16 pm

Initially this thread was raising the “CAN WE REALLY CALL THEM STYX?” question. (Or nag, if you will)

This recalls an endless argument, which can be repeated about any number of acts, from Fleetwood Mac to Pink Floyd to Journey to the Moody Blues to Journey to Santana to the Who.

And for the record, I have met people who adamantly SWEAR that Styx was never Styx after John Curlewski left.

I suppose you could also ask ‘WHOSE OPINION IS MORE IMPORTANT, YOUR OR MINE?’

P.S. to It’sMyLife: Who said they didn’t dump Dennis in '79 “because he kept writing hit tunes”?

ANSWER: Only ItsMyLife.

One might say that announcing made up, fictional statements based on opinion speaks volumes about the character of the speaker too…
Adam
LP
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 8:18 am
Location: LA

Postby Zan » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:44 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Zan, LOL, I still know know why you said "wish me luck" on the other board. I hope you know by now that I get confused easy :roll:

I do hope you give a detailed report of tonight's concert. I'd appreciate it. Ohhhhhh, don't forget to let me know what you think of "Pieces of Eight", I'm a little obsessed with hearing that song live lately (ya think?)



I shall try. I guess I wanted luck to help me get through the whole experience. I'm not exactly a "DeYoungian," in case you hadn't noticed. LOL - I do think the show will be lovely.


I really love Jack Handy's Deep Thoughts, those are the best!!



Very insightful, that guy. lol
-Zan :)

believe me, i know my Styx

Image

Shiny things
User avatar
Zan
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:24 am
Location: PARADISE

Postby Zan » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:47 pm

Monker wrote:But, if you're a dead horse and someone keeps beating you. I think you should just let them do it. Because, he is obviously bored silly and you're dead anyway.



LMAO!
-Zan :)

believe me, i know my Styx

Image

Shiny things
User avatar
Zan
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:24 am
Location: PARADISE

Postby Guest » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:01 am

Zan wrote:Speaking of character and volumes, have I told you how much I enjoy these little pseudo-truths you continually post as well-known facts? It's awe-inspiring.


Congrats Zan! You've inspired the perfect name for this line-up!

Pseudo-Styx!
Guest
 

Postby Zan » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:06 am

ItsMyLife wrote:Congrats Zan! You've inspired the perfect name for this line-up!

Pseudo-Styx!



]Or "Sue 'dose Styx!"
Last edited by Zan on Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Zan :)

believe me, i know my Styx

Image

Shiny things
User avatar
Zan
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:24 am
Location: PARADISE

Postby Guest » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:09 am

Adam wrote:P.S. to It’sMyLife: Who said they didn’t dump Dennis in '79 “because he kept writing hit tunes”?

ANSWER: Only ItsMyLife.



Wasn't that mentioned (or alluded to) in the "Behind The Music"? Or perhaps I'm confusing this with information I read elsewhere.

Anyhow, supposedly they wanted to oust Dennis around '78/'79 but the record company wouldn't stand for it and since he was writing the lionshare of hit songs they had little leverage.

So maybe they would have done it if they could have... but it certainly wouldn't have made a lot of sense.
Guest
 

Postby SuiteMadameBlue » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:16 am

From Faux Styx to Carrot Styx to Pseudo-Styx, they all have a "ring" to it.

Zan, you're not a DeYoungian!!!! What the hell's wrong with you? Just kidding. When you're at the concert, don't think of anything that happened in the past and just enjoy the music.

When I went to see Carrot Styx at Summerfest last summer I was miserable when they came out on stage, just miserable. (I went to the concert with a couple of great friends and had a great time with all the Styx fans there, that made a blast.) To me, they didn't look that happy on stage. It was like they were saying "okay another city, another concert we have to do." They looked tired (to me). But then again, I went to the concert with a lot of baggage in my head about the whole break up.
Suite Madame Blue
User avatar
SuiteMadameBlue
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 6666
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:17 pm
Location: Paradise............

Postby Guest » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:26 am

Zan... I dare you to hold up a Larry Gowan rules sign tonight!
Guest
 

Postby Zan » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:50 am

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:From Faux Styx to Carrot Styx to Pseudo-Styx, they all have a "ring" to it.

Zan, you're not a DeYoungian!!!! What the hell's wrong with you? Just kidding. When you're at the concert, don't think of anything that happened in the past and just enjoy the music.




That's what I intend on doing. :) Carrot Styx is the best of those, btw.


When I went to see Carrot Styx at Summerfest last summer I was miserable when they came out on stage, just miserable. (I went to the concert with a couple of great friends and had a great time with all the Styx fans there, that made a blast.) To me, they didn't look that happy on stage. It was like they were saying "okay another city, another concert we have to do." They looked tired (to me). But then again, I went to the concert with a lot of baggage in my head about the whole break up.[/quote]


That was how I felt in 1997. Exactly the same. They all looked like they'd rather be somewhere else.
-Zan :)

believe me, i know my Styx

Image

Shiny things
User avatar
Zan
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:24 am
Location: PARADISE

Postby Monker » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:53 am

Wasn't that mentioned (or alluded to) in the "Behind The Music"? Or perhaps I'm confusing this with information I read elsewhere.


Or, maybe your head is inventing things so what you WANT to believe fits your version of reality.

What was said on BTM is there was a huge conflict in the band after "Babe" was released and then they wanted to release "First Time". Tommy and JY wanted to be a rock band, Dennis wanted to go in another direction. That conflict eventualy escelated to the point where Dennis was fired.

Anyhow, supposedly they wanted to oust Dennis around '78/'79 but the record company wouldn't stand for it and since he was writing the lionshare of hit songs they had little leverage.


I don't think the thoughts of the "record company" were mentioned in the BTM. I don't think they said much at all except they didn't find an acceptable replacement.

So maybe they would have done it if they could have... but it certainly wouldn't have made a lot of sense.


It's supposed to be a band. When one member thinks he rules all others then that member should be thrown into the crack of doom so that the others can be free. Eventualy, that is what happened.
Monker
MP3
 
Posts: 12648
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm

Postby Guest » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:39 am

Monker wrote:Or, maybe your head is inventing things so what you WANT to believe fits your version of reality.


And maybe your head is empty.

Monker wrote:What was said on BTM is there was a huge conflict in the band after "Babe" was released and then they wanted to release "First Time". Tommy and JY wanted to be a rock band, Dennis wanted to go in another direction. That conflict eventualy escelated to the point where Dennis was fired.


Hmmm... I don't seem to remember them having problems cashing the checks from all the hits Dennis was writing... which led to huge album sales... huge tours... huge merchandising... etc... etc.. etc..

My god... JY is one of the luckiest SOBs ever and now he badmouths Dennis every chance he gets.

Monker wrote:I don't think the thoughts of the "record company" were mentioned in the BTM. I don't think they said much at all except they didn't find an acceptable replacement.


It was mentioned elsewhere then.

Monker wrote:It's supposed to be a band. When one member thinks he rules all others then that member should be thrown into the crack of doom so that the others can be free. Eventualy, that is what happened.


And now Tommy and JY rule over 3 employees.
Guest
 

Postby kansas666 » Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:16 am

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Kansas, are you going to see them at Summerfest and the Walworth County Fair this summer?


I am going to try and catch both shows. It depends on my schedule.
Dave
kansas666
8 Track
 
Posts: 711
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Next

Return to Styx

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests